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Question: Bitcoin Forums should eliminate all references to 'scammer' and 'trust'
Yes. - 9 (10.2%)
No. - 59 (67%)
You're still dumb. - 20 (22.7%)
Total Voters: 88

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Author Topic: Bitcoin Forums should eliminate 'Scammer' ratings and 'Trust' ratings  (Read 3739 times)
wolverine.ks
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July 07, 2013, 02:30:13 AM
 #1

One of the reasons people use bitcoin or any crypto currency is to eliminate the need to trust the other party.

The use of scammer ratings and trust ratings increases the ability of people to rely on trust in their transactions.

BitcoinTalk forums should remove all references to scamming, scammers, scams, trust and the like, in order to decrease the community's ability to rely on trust, and encourage business models that are transparent and do not rely on trust.

Thoughts?
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🏰 TradeFortress 🏰
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July 07, 2013, 02:34:01 AM
 #2

BitcoinTalk forums should remove all references to scamming, scammers, scams, trust and the like, in order to decrease the community's ability to rely on trust, and encourage business models that are transparent and do not rely on trust.

That's very difficult to do for most business models.
wolverine.ks
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July 07, 2013, 03:25:53 AM
 #3

That's very difficult to do for most business models.

agreed.
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July 07, 2013, 07:21:09 AM
 #4

One of the reasons people use bitcoin or any crypto currency is to eliminate the need to trust the other party.
No, silly, we use it to eliminate the need to trust a central bank or government. You still have to trust the person you're actually doing business with; anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

Will pretend to do unspeakable things (while actually eating a taco) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
I am not on the scammers' paradise known as Telegram! Do not believe anyone claiming to be me off-forum without a signed message from the above address! Accept no excuses and make no exceptions!
wolverine.ks
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July 07, 2013, 07:40:56 AM
 #5

look up Nash x. it's a trust less exchange in beta.

there has never been proof offered that you cannot get around trust.

the central govt and bank are just people.

I'm not suggesting that people don't have to use trust. merely trust math and economics. neither of those deal with reputation or morals or ethics. math and economics man. that's where the future is at.
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July 07, 2013, 07:53:45 AM
 #6

look up Nash x. it's a trust less exchange in beta.

there has never been proof offered that you cannot get around trust.

the central govt and bank are just people.

I'm not suggesting that people don't have to use trust. merely trust math and economics. neither of those deal with reputation or morals or ethics. math and economics man. that's where the future is at.
Lol no. nashx is not a trustless exchange. You need to trust the exchange operator. You deposit coins into nashx.

It's just slightly different than localbitcoins's escrow system.
wolverine.ks
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July 07, 2013, 10:12:26 AM
 #7

OK now that I read closer it says p2p but requires a Nash x account or something. but the point still stands. it is possible to make things that require less trust if not eliminate trusting humans altogether.

I think eliminating trusting humans is a good thing for everyone that isn't operating a business that requires trust, and may benefit those people as well in some cases.

one way to encourage that is to eliminate the crutch of a trust/scammer rating system.
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July 07, 2013, 12:57:51 PM
 #8

OK now that I read closer it says p2p but requires a Nash x account or something. but the point still stands. it is possible to make things that require less trust if not eliminate trusting humans altogether.
No, it is not. You always have to trust the humans who write the code, the humans who control the machines the code is being run on.

Bitcoin is decentralized but it is not trust less. You are trusting that BTC guild and ASICMINER does not decide (or get forced to) double spend transactions.
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July 07, 2013, 01:25:22 PM
 #9

That thread makes me laugh. Some say that bitcoin specifically was made to avoid need for trust... Are you serious? Actually bitcoin is BASED ON TRUST. That's why bitcoin has its major problem, it REQUIRES TRUST. Just read all these posts about scam and number of people loosing their money. Who of you made transaction with the bank just to know that it was scam? Anybody?
I never lose 1 cent as a scam having deals with banks. But I scare to make one small bitcoin transaction because I CAN NOT TRUST to other party. Why should I trust to somebody with no name and address? Just because I was told that " in order to decrease the community's ability to rely on trust, and encourage business models that are transparent and do not rely on trust"? Are you kidding me?

"One of the reasons people use bitcoin or any crypto currency is to eliminate the need to trust the other party."
Hell no. People use bitcoin in order to hide their names and addresses. Which is requires more trust. It is not eliminates need to trust, but does just the opposite.

I think,(but probably I am mistaken) that if there was some build in bitcoin mechanism of automatically controlling transactions the way as escrow party does, bitcoin would be much better currency.

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July 07, 2013, 01:33:03 PM
 #10

One of the reasons people use bitcoin or any crypto currency is to eliminate the need to trust the other party.

The use of scammer ratings and trust ratings increases the ability of people to rely on trust in their transactions.

BitcoinTalk forums should remove all references to scamming, scammers, scams, trust and the like, in order to decrease the community's ability to rely on trust, and encourage business models that are transparent and do not rely on trust.

Thoughts?


good morning, Yes if you care to read the white paper it will make more sense. Bitcoin eliminates the need for trust by instead relying on science and proof of work. This forum is a circus...Ira
TomUnderSea
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July 07, 2013, 07:25:16 PM
 #11

More important than "trust" or "scammer" tags and the like is proof of identity.

Essentially the presence of alt accounts reduces trust.

A long time forum member, on average, is more trustworthy simply due to the invested time on the forum.  An alt account in inherently untrustworthy.

Forum accounts can still be anonymous but they should be unique for each person.

Every little BTC helps.  14P3TfbttSpQ3BxUjwrUrmNU6F4mB9aMS5
escrow.ms
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July 07, 2013, 07:38:00 PM
 #12

wolverine.ks i want you to lend me 1 btc for 1 hour without checking my trust rating or anything else.

1AMQnRXYDyNi75QXa6F3YGqKhcGjWs49tM

Let's see.
wolverine.ks
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July 07, 2013, 07:42:11 PM
 #13

wolverine.ks i want you to lend me 1 btc for 1 hour without checking my trust rating or anything else.

1AMQnRXYDyNi75QXa6F3YGqKhcGjWs49tM

Let's see.

that would be a business proposition that requires trust.

if you can give me collateral so I wouldn't have to trust you or your rating (an age old trust reducing business tactic), it would be a different story.
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July 07, 2013, 07:43:37 PM
Last edit: July 07, 2013, 07:56:48 PM by escrow.ms
 #14

wolverine.ks i want you to lend me 1 btc for 1 hour without checking my trust rating or anything else.

1AMQnRXYDyNi75QXa6F3YGqKhcGjWs49tM

Let's see.

that would be a business proposition that requires trust.

if you can give me collateral so I wouldn't have to trust you or your rating (an age old trust reducing business tactic), it would be a different story.

You need collateral because you don't trust me without my trust ratings.
Please read your own first post again and then this one..


/Thread.
wolverine.ks
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July 07, 2013, 09:43:21 PM
 #15

You need collateral because you don't trust me without my trust ratings.

i would agree that i need collateral because i dont trust you, however, im not looking to trust you, and even if i were, trust ratings and scammer tags only have some correlation with previously documented behavior, but they do not have a causal relationship to future behavior.

economic incentives do have a causal relationship to future behavior.
Oldgamer
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July 08, 2013, 03:09:02 AM
 #16

wolverine.ks i want you to lend me 1 btc for 1 hour without checking my trust rating or anything else.

1AMQnRXYDyNi75QXa6F3YGqKhcGjWs49tM

Let's see.
Absolutely!
Great answer!

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July 08, 2013, 03:39:04 AM
 #17

Although they make it somewhat tough to enter the marketplace, I think you'll find most people agree that the trust rating are 100% required in the current climate.

Unfortunately as this industry matures there is still a huge issue with scammers and illegitimate startups, and while the community can be overzealous in calling out scammers, it is necessary given how final BTC transaction are.

Now hurry up and use CoinsForTech.com so I can improve my trust rating!!

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July 08, 2013, 02:07:17 PM
 #18

I don't agree. It's a good way to warn people for potentional scammers. Trust is always needed, and escrow should be something everyone uses, but the ratings add extra security.
Ira H. Fuchs
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July 08, 2013, 02:15:28 PM
 #19

I don't agree. It's a good way to warn people for potentional scammers. Trust is always needed, and escrow should be something everyone uses, but the ratings add extra security.


good morning, I encourage you to review Satoshis' paper and explain to us how he defines trust...Ira
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July 08, 2013, 02:45:45 PM
Last edit: July 09, 2013, 07:24:35 AM by jackjack
 #20

This forum is not satoshipaper.org

Own address: 19QkqAza7BHFTuoz9N8UQkryP4E9jHo4N3 - Pywallet support: 1AQDfx22pKGgXnUZFL1e4UKos3QqvRzNh5 - Bitcointalk++ script support: 1Pxeccscj1ygseTdSV1qUqQCanp2B2NMM2
Pywallet: instructions. Encrypted wallet support, export/import keys/addresses, backup wallets, export/import CSV data from/into wallet, merge wallets, delete/import addresses and transactions, recover altcoins sent to bitcoin addresses, sign/verify messages and files with Bitcoin addresses, recover deleted wallets, etc.
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