[ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING***

[loshia]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

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[loshia]

and some are hobbyists, just wanting to be part of something big.....   why does everyone leave that out? 

The big part is the money spent that is all

[dropt]

wow  a simple ROI is too hard for you?

A proper ROI calculation is anything but simple. 

If you had made acceptable assumptions in July/August looking forward you would have seen Hashfast, Cointerra, BFL, Terrahash, Avalon chips GB's, ASICMiner Gen 2, KnC, etc in the pipeline.  The outlook was horrid!  Fast forward to today and how many of those expected offerings have come to fruition?  In September people were running around waving the genesis block calculator results which predicted a difficulty of 4 Billion coming into January.

It's a concern yes, but a lot of people running around making these claims really have nothing to back them up. 

[xzempt]

i was told the 333mhs BE's would never ROI,    pretty  sure everyone i bought did.....  

[dropt]

There are actually people that don't know difficulty will rise. And even if they do, there are people that don't know the difference between linear and exponential growth.

And a lot of those that think they understand exponenetial growth don't understand that it isnt' sustainable.

[Ytterbium]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

People have been saying that from the beginning.  If you go back and look at early 2011, when I started GPU mining whether I came out ahead mining or buying bitcoin depends on when I would have bought them.  I made way more BTC from GPU mining then I would have from if I had just bought bitcoin for around $5-10.  unfortunately I ended up selling a lot of those bitcoins around $10...  I did still make a pretty big USD profit, though and I had enough bitcoin left over for a B2 Avalon, which again more then paid for itself.

The thing is, I made most of my bitcoins in the long phase where difficulty leveled off before the first ASICs hit the network. Eventually the same thing is likely going to happen with ASIC miners, margins are already getting pretty thin, but the difficulty is going to have to go up a long way before they're unable to pay for their own electricity, and when prices go up the margins on that electricity go up as well.  So for example, my Avalon is probably still making about $15/day, while using about $1.26 in power. So, even though the difficulty has gone way up, the usable life has been extended.

[seriouscoin]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

People have been saying that from the beginning.  If you go back and look at early 2011, when I started GPU mining whether I came out ahead mining or buying bitcoin depends on when I would have bought them.  I made way more BTC from GPU mining then I would have from if I had just bought bitcoin for around $5-10.  unfortunately I ended up selling a lot of those bitcoins around $10...  I did still make a pretty big USD profit, though and I had enough bitcoin left over for a B2 Avalon, which again more then paid for itself.

The thing is, I made most of my bitcoins in the long phase where difficulty leveled off before the first ASICs hit the network. Eventually the same thing is likely going to happen with ASIC miners, margins are already getting pretty thin, but the difficulty is going to have to go up a long way before they're unable to pay for their own electricity, and when prices go up the margins on that electricity go up as well.  So for example, my Avalon is probably still making about $15/day, while using about $1.26 in power. So, even though the difficulty has gone way up, the usable life has been extended.

Please think of ROI in BTC.... not in fiat.

The point is spending BTC now and you're not gonna get back that amount of BTC. Price goes up, your stash value goes up, contrast to mining.... price goes up, difficulty will continue to rise due to noobs, your mining gear's value goes down, getting harder to get back that initial BTC.

What i've learned since mining is that simply buying BTC and hold would gain alot more.

[ShadesOfMarble]

There are actually people that don't know difficulty will rise. And even if they do, there are people that don't know the difference between linear and exponential growth.

And a lot of those that think they understand exponenetial growth don't understand that it isnt' sustainable.

Cmon... I'm not talking about t->infinity but about the next months and maybe years. By the time we will see saturation (i.e. no difficulty adjustment in either direction beside statistical noise) ALL of the hardware sold now will be useless (as in "not even mine its own electricity cost").

Mining is going to centralize in the future. Margins are getting thinner and thinner and then only companies which mine for themself and with simple designs will survive. The Bitfury "one string" design is the way to go.


A lot of people are hunting the "Avalon batch #1" myth.

Also what seriouscoin said in the post above. You want to win the mining game? Then don't play it.

[cypherdoc]

0.47BTC H-Card, time to buy

This...the price drop is appreciated.  Cheaper (by about a third) than AntMiner, and more power-efficient. 

you still running bfgminer?

Yes.  I've pulled updates a few times since first setting it up; it says it's now at 3.8.1.  It also has a Klondike K16 slaved off it in addition to a couple of Jalapeños.

is it stable?

[Syke]

Four H-boards will do 140 GH/s with mild overclocking (the two I already have are doing 70).  I paid about BTC1.87 yesterday for them.  Five (for 175 GH/s) would've been about BTC2.34. "1/3 cheaper" may have been a little bit of an overstatement, but Bitfury hardware is now cheaper.

No, it's not. You're trying to compare overclocked incomplete Bitfury systems with stock clocked complete Antminer systems. That is not a valid comparison.

[dropt]

And a lot of those that think they understand exponenetial growth don't understand that it isnt' sustainable.

Cmon... I'm not talking about t->infinity but about the next months and maybe years. By the time we will see saturation (i.e. no difficulty adjustment in either direction beside statistical noise) ALL of the hardware sold now will be useless (as in "not even mine its own electricity cost").

Mining is going to centralize in the future. Margins are getting thinner and thinner and then only companies which mine for themself and with simple designs will survive. The Bitfury "one string" design is the way to go.


A lot of people are hunting the "Avalon batch #1" myth.

Also what seriouscoin said in the post above. You want to win the mining game? Then don't play it.

Why do you assume the requirement of t->inf for an exponential model to fail?  

Further, the Avalon batch #1 "myth" is not a myth.  It actually happened.  I do however agree that the gains seen by Avalon B1 customers will never be realized again.  Like others I was always told not to buy mining equipment, just buy coins.  Turns out that I've mined over double the amount of coins I could have purchased at any point with the amount of funding I've poured into my farms.  

Seriouscoin is right in that the absolute conservative method is to just buy coins, but conservative plays generally equate to very little -- if any -- gains.

[zurg]

my new v1.2 cards are in and im heatsinking them now

are these overclocked already? It looks like both R01F and R02F is already sitting around 1.8 K-ohm

Please let me know how the new cards are working., I am considering buying some tonight.

Thank you.

[seriouscoin]

And a lot of those that think they understand exponenetial growth don't understand that it isnt' sustainable.

Cmon... I'm not talking about t->infinity but about the next months and maybe years. By the time we will see saturation (i.e. no difficulty adjustment in either direction beside statistical noise) ALL of the hardware sold now will be useless (as in "not even mine its own electricity cost").

Mining is going to centralize in the future. Margins are getting thinner and thinner and then only companies which mine for themself and with simple designs will survive. The Bitfury "one string" design is the way to go.


A lot of people are hunting the "Avalon batch #1" myth.

Also what seriouscoin said in the post above. You want to win the mining game? Then don't play it.

Why do you assume the requirement of t->inf for an exponential model to fail?  

Further, the Avalon batch #1 "myth" is not a myth.  It actually happened.  I do however agree that the gains seen by Avalon B1 customers will never be realized again.  Like others I was always told not to buy mining equipment, just buy coins.  Turns out that I've mined over double the amount of coins I could have purchased at any point with the amount of funding I've poured into my farms.  

Seriouscoin is right in that the absolute conservative method is to just buy coins, but conservative plays generally equate to very little -- if any -- gains.

You really need to give it some thought if you think of buying equate to no gain. B4 talking about ANY gain, you should get back your initial investment first. This is when it all depends on fiat term or btc term.

For BTC term is clear as a crystal, you're not getting that amount back. As for fiat term, its speculative on the price.

If the price goes down, your btc stash value goes down, so does your mining gear.....

If the price goes up,.... well you can re read my post.

I do know one thing, as ppl keep buying mining gear like crazy.... its less likely for my stash's value to go down.

[klondike_bar]

PROBLEM:

I rearranged my setup so that its now got 7 cards (up from 1) and is powered via the screw terminals rather than the PCI connectors.

I power it up and only the red LED (Power)on the RPi lights up. no video output, no other LEDS, no network connection.
I try a test: plug a USB cable in and measure its voltage: 5V  ----> AND THE GREEN ACT LIGHT COMES ON  ---> still no video or bootup though

I unplug the RPI and give it just USB, network, and HDMI -> PWR and ACT lights are lit fully, but no output or actual boot. after maybe 10seconds, the green ACT led turns off
(in contrast, when booting without an SD, the green act light is barely lit - a different outcome)

is something wrong with my SD card, or the RPi itself?

ps: i used the SSH command 'sudo shudown now -h' and then closed the SSH and gave it about 10 seconds before switching off the PSU - if that still corrupted my SD card i am at a loss - these bitfury systems really need a better control board that doesnt obliterate itself every time the power state changes

EDIT: of course, it was a mangled SD card image. seriously, what can be done to avoid this nonsense?

[ShadesOfMarble]

Why do you assume the requirement of t->inf for an exponential model to fail? 

I don't know why you are insisting so hard on your "exponential growth will fail" thing. Yes, of course it will fail, if will fail much before infty because there is an upper limit for difficulty, otherwise it would not be computable. Furthermore, why do you call it "failing"? We will see saturation, but no "failing".

That's how saturation (or, in your terms, "failing") looks like:

http://home.arcor.de/wetec/rechner/cladekurve.png

I see no saturation on the Bitcoin difficulty graph. Not even a clue.

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-small-lin.png

[dropt]

Why do you assume the requirement of t->inf for an exponential model to fail?  

I don't know why you are insisting so hard on your "exponential growth will fail" thing. Yes, of course it will fail, if will fail much before infty because there is an upper limit for difficulty, otherwise it would not be computable. Furthermore, why do you call it "failing"? We will see saturation, but no "failing".

That's how saturation (or, in your terms, "failing") looks like:

http://home.arcor.de/wetec/rechner/cladekurve.png

I see no saturation on the Bitcoin difficulty graph. Not even a clue.

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-small-lin.png

Heh, because exponential systems cannot continue unfettered.  People keep posting TGB mining calculator saying, "Look, Look!  Look what the difficulty is going to be, you'll never break even!!!" without giving a moments thought to what the predicted values are and what would have to realisitically occur to support them.  The point is, that the foundation of everyone's "IT WILL NOT ROI" claims are flawed because they're implying a continual exponential curve/model.  What SHOULD be used is a Sigmund Curve, or S-Curve.



As to why I call it failing, because that's what uncontrolled exponential growth systems do.  They fail, as in fail to be exponential over time.  Either the phsyical system fails or the mathematical model no longer represents the physical world.  Take your pick.  It has nothing to do with the arbitrary upper limit of difficulty, but the tangible/physical requirements to support an exponentially growing difficulty.  

The problem is that we *dont* know what's going to happen, but anyone familiar with mathematical models will realize that an unchecked exponential curve is not it.  We are not going to add 14PH of equipment in the next 30 days, 28PH in the days following that, 56PH in the 30 days following that ad nauseum.  I recognize this, and I would reckon that you do as well.  It's the inability of the system to operate in this matter that opens up the possibility of reaching a positive ROI if the consumer makes educated predictions and assumes a sizeable level of risk.

That said, I'm not going to continue my diatribe since I'm driving this thread way off topic.

[Keefe]

PROBLEM:

I rearranged my setup so that its now got 7 cards (up from 1) and is powered via the screw terminals rather than the PCI connectors.

I power it up and only the red LED (Power)on the RPi lights up. no video output, no other LEDS, no network connection.
I try a test: plug a USB cable in and measure its voltage: 5V  ----> AND THE GREEN ACT LIGHT COMES ON  ---> still no video or bootup though

I unplug the RPI and give it just USB, network, and HDMI -> PWR and ACT lights are lit fully, but no output or actual boot. after maybe 10seconds, the green ACT led turns off
(in contrast, when booting without an SD, the green act light is barely lit - a different outcome)

is something wrong with my SD card, or the RPi itself?

ps: i used the SSH command 'sudo shudown now -h' and then closed the SSH and gave it about 10 seconds before switching off the PSU - if that still corrupted my SD card i am at a loss - these bitfury systems really need a better control board that doesnt obliterate itself every time the power state changes

EDIT: of course, it was a mangled SD card image. seriously, what can be done to avoid this nonsense?

I don't have a solution to SD card failure (it's not just corruption), so I just buy lots of SD cards and keep at least one new card ready to go for each rig. At any hint of SD card problems, I pop in a new card and test the old card by putting it in a card reader on another pc and hashing its contents twice and comparing the results, by doing something like 'dd if=/dev/sdb | md5sum'. Usually multiple passes hash differently and I toss the old card and image another backup card for the next time it happens.

[klondike_bar]

my new v1.2 cards are in and im heatsinking them now

are these overclocked already? It looks like both R01F and R02F is already sitting around 1.8 K-ohm

Please let me know how the new cards are working., I am considering buying some tonight.

Thank you.

based on previous thread advice, i pencil modded all the R02F resistors from 1.8K to 1.7K (+/- 0.025) and with the SD image remade, the unit is running well. heres some observations (Ill update with more as the system reaches stable operation):
note: all chips except for a few exceptions are Autotune-54 (a few are Autotune-53 due to high initial error levels)

5min: Original card that ran between 35-39GH before is at 37.5GH right now -GOOD
         New cards are all running between 30-34.5GH (average of about 32GH)
        In the past, the pencil mod often 'intensifies' with age and heat, so in an hour or so I'll post more results, and am expecting the new cards to all increase by 1-2GH as .    .       tuning takes place
1Hour: the new cards are settling in around Autotune 55-57 with a few exceptions that are around 53 and >30% HW errors
         New cards are  averaging mildly higher, about 32.5GH average. Between 7 cards i have 234GH
1Day:  The new cards are all running between 33-36GH, with an average of 34.5GH - 244GH across all 7
        

[zurg]

my new v1.2 cards are in and im heatsinking them now

are these overclocked already? It looks like both R01F and R02F is already sitting around 1.8 K-ohm

Please let me know how the new cards are working., I am considering buying some tonight.

Thank you.

based on previous thread advice, i pencil modded all the R02F resistors from 1.8K to 1.7K (+/- 0.025) and with the SD image remade, the unit is running well. heres some observations (Ill update with more as the system reaches stable operation):
note: all chips except for a few exceptions are Autotune-54 (a few are Autotune-53 due to high initial error levels)

5min: Original card that ran between 35-39GH before is at 37.5GH right now -GOOD
         New cards are all running between 30-34.5GH (average of about 32GH)
        In the past, the pencil mod often 'intensifies' with age and heat, so in an hour or so I'll post more results, and am expecting the new cards to all increase by 1-2GH as tuning takes place

So it was a bad SD card that your rig wasn't firing up?

Thanks for info.

Wondering how late can I order for them to ship today.

[zurg]

my new v1.2 cards are in and im heatsinking them now

are these overclocked already? It looks like both R01F and R02F is already sitting around 1.8 K-ohm

Please let me know how the new cards are working., I am considering buying some tonight.

Thank you.

based on previous thread advice, i pencil modded all the R02F resistors from 1.8K to 1.7K (+/- 0.025) and with the SD image remade, the unit is running well. heres some observations (Ill update with more as the system reaches stable operation):
note: all chips except for a few exceptions are Autotune-54 (a few are Autotune-53 due to high initial error levels)

5min: Original card that ran between 35-39GH before is at 37.5GH right now -GOOD
         New cards are all running between 30-34.5GH (average of about 32GH)
        In the past, the pencil mod often 'intensifies' with age and heat, so in an hour or so I'll post more results, and am expecting the new cards to all increase by 1-2GH as tuning takes place

So it was a bad SD card that your rig wasn't firing up?

Thanks for info.

Wondering how late can I order for them to ship today.

they ship from nearish the west coast, so I would imagine as long as the order is finalised in the next ~4hrs they can ship today by 5pm

Cool.. I am wondering if they truly intend to charge me $650 per card if I order 10, lmao.
j.k..
Maybe that should be $300/per 10 by now.