Bitcoin Forum
November 19, 2018, 12:55:42 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.17.0 [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Desktop Wallets and Noobness over 9000  (Read 286 times)
andyroo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 07:03:35 AM
 #1

Hey guys,

I will say straight up I am a long term HODLer and not some insane tech guru but I have general IT knowledge. Also, I have not done this yet, I am just floating the idea, as currently, all my coins are on an exchange. (Not a huge amount, but still I'm thinking 10 years down the track).

My question is regarding desktop wallets.

So I have a ledger nano s, which is where I keep my BTC and a couple of other coins, but it does not take all alt coins. SO I am stuck with the option of keeping them in the exchange or go to another wallet.

I have looked at paper wallets, and to be honest I think I got a few greys in the whole process. There were so many measures like take offline, dont use the same printer, dont ever connect to the internet, all of which were not feasible for me. Also from my experience it is really hard to find a legit seed generator that is not online, and then I need to move it to the wallet which is difficult considering it is all multiple coins. And I also want the option to view my coins.

I am talking (not limited to) mainly about verge, iota, cardano and a few others.

I know these have desktop wallets, but I am not sure how safe these are. I have heard that you need to delete app data? But then I also heard someone did that and lost all their coins.

Ideally, desktop wallets would work great because I can at least keep my seed offline on a USB and only copy/paste it over when I want to check up on my funds or eventually sell out, but how safe is this really?

I don't use porn or go to crazy sites on my PC and I run antivirus and all that other noob jazz.

SO. I guess, is there actually a super easy way for me to create paper wallets for like 20+ different altcoins?
Or can I just use desktop wallets and just make sure the seed isnt stored anywhere?

I think someone said that the app data contains the wallet info, but I haven't been able to find any files which contain a seed or password when I was playing around with them and testing.

Note I am pretty noob with PCs but have general IT knowledge.

Can someone help me out here? How can I make my desktop wallets safe if I choose that route for my long term coin hodl? Just get the apps, move the coins, get the seed, store offline on a usb and then delete the entire app including app data?? (will that make me lose my coins, considering sometimes it asks for a seed, but also a password when unlocking the wallet or to send coins?)
**Note, I am not able to run Ubuntu and all this other stuff, I just want a simple method without going matrix level and using multiple PCs, as I don't have the time or spare parts.

Any help greatly appreciated, and if it truly is simple to understand and solves my problem for a good long term 5 year hodl and is safe, then please leave your address and I will donate some btc to you for your trouble.

Thanks!
1542632142
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1542632142

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1542632142
Reply with quote  #2

1542632142
Report to moderator
1542632142
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1542632142

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1542632142
Reply with quote  #2

1542632142
Report to moderator
1542632142
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1542632142

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1542632142
Reply with quote  #2

1542632142
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1542632142
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1542632142

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1542632142
Reply with quote  #2

1542632142
Report to moderator
1542632142
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1542632142

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1542632142
Reply with quote  #2

1542632142
Report to moderator
1542632142
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1542632142

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1542632142
Reply with quote  #2

1542632142
Report to moderator
HCP
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 952

<insert witty quote here>


View Profile
December 05, 2017, 10:31:06 AM
 #2

One recommendation I will offer is that if you want to check balances, just create "watching only" wallets using xpubs and/or the public addresses... Your seeds and xprvs etc can stay safely offline and you never need to enter them until you actually want to spend.

Plus, it means you don't have to keep installing and reinstalling and deleting stuff.

LoyceV
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1302
Merit: 2264


Self-made Legendary!


View Profile WWW
December 05, 2017, 12:32:28 PM
 #3

I am a long term HODLer ~~ currently, all my coins are on an exchange.
This means you've survived several exchanges that disappeared already! You're very brave keeping them there, I'm already scared when I have a fraction of a Bitcoin on an exchange for just two days.
In case it isn't clear: this is my way of telling you it's very risky, and you've been lucky so far. Don't push your luck.

Quote
So I have a ledger nano s, which is where I keep my BTC and a couple of other coins, but it does not take all alt coins. SO I am stuck with the option of keeping them in the exchange or go to another wallet.
There isn't a single method to keep all possible coins. Your Ledger will be a good start, use it for all the coins it accepts, and find a different solution for the rest. That's what I do: I use different options for different coins too.

Quote
I know these have desktop wallets, but I am not sure how safe these are. I have heard that you need to delete app data? But then I also heard someone did that and lost all their coins.
Deleting data sounds like a good way to lose your coins indeed, if you don't exactly know what you're doing.

Quote
Ideally, desktop wallets would work great because I can at least keep my seed offline on a USB and only copy/paste it over when I want to check up on my funds or eventually sell out, but how safe is this really?
This is not safe at all: keeping a wallet offline doesn't mean keeping it offline just 99.9% of the time, it means that wallet has never touched any online computer.
Also: don't rely on just 1 USB-stick, those things can break. Make multiple backups.

Quote
SO. I guess, is there actually a super easy way for me to create paper wallets for like 20+ different altcoins?
Or can I just use desktop wallets and just make sure the seed isnt stored anywhere?
There's another side to this plan: you'll also need a super easy way to sweep your paper wallets in the future.
I've actually been thinking to make an overview of different paper wallets, just to convince people to keep less money on exchanges. 20+ would be a good start!
For Bitcoin I trust https://www.bitaddress.org/ and https://bitcoinpaperwallet.com/, but by all means, don't just believe random people on the internet posting random links. Do your own research, be paranoid, and use that to stay safe.
There's also https://walletgenerator.net/, which supports 158 different coins, but I don't know if it can be trusted.

Quote
How can I make my desktop wallets safe if I choose that route for my long term coin hodl?
You should seriously consider setting up something offline for long-term hodling.

Quote
Just get the apps, move the coins, get the seed, store offline on a usb and then delete the entire app including app data?? (will that make me lose my coins, considering sometimes it asks for a seed, but also a password when unlocking the wallet or to send coins?)
Unplugging your computer from the internet, then creating super-secret-private-keys, deleting them, and going online again is not safe. You should assume your computer is compromised, and malware will patiently wait for you to go back online.
It depends on the wallet what you'll need to backup. For Electrum for instance it's enough to backup your word seed phrase once, for Bitcoin Core (HD) a one-time backup of your wallet.dat file is enough, and (to give an extreme example) for Byteball you'll need to backup it's complete data directory again after every Blackbytes transaction).

Quote
**Note, I am not able to run Ubuntu and all this other stuff, I just want a simple method without going matrix level and using multiple PCs, as I don't have the time or spare parts.
Have you tried Ubuntu? If not, you should at least give it a try! Download it, burn a DVD, unplug your internet, start your PC from DVD. It's quite complete and easy to use, including printer installation. Then copy the paper wallet generators to an USB stick and use them offline (with your curtains closed).
Basically all you need is a DVD, you don't need a spare computer. And yes, it's very annoying having to restart your computer each time you want to do something related to private keys, but it makes me sleep better at night Cheesy

"Time" shouldn't be a concern if you're a long-term holder. It took me a long time (of postponing) before I improved my setup, but in the end it's worth it. What's a month on 5 years, right? Once you have it working, print as many paper wallets as you think you'll use in the coming 10 years. It's a one-time job. Use a cheap (=no storage inside) laserprinter (=better quality if it gets wet), and if you're truely paranoid, destroy the printer once it runs out of toner.
Remember, it's better to spend way too much time being careful, than losing your coins due to some stupid mistake.

Quote
Any help greatly appreciated, and if it truly is simple to understand and solves my problem for a good long term 5 year hodl and is safe, then please leave your address and I will donate some btc to you for your trouble.
I've seen many newbies lately offering rewards for help. And as much as that's appreciated (my addy is in my profile > click my name), it's not required to get helpful answers.
I wouldn't try to find 1 solution for all your coins, try several solutions that cover as many of your coins as possible.

One more thing: leave instructions for yourself how to use your backups! I've seen many threads lately from people asking what to do with the 21 words they found on a piece of paper from years ago, and that's for Bitcoin online.

andyroo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 06, 2017, 07:43:06 AM
 #4

Hi!,

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it.

So it seems taking the time to do paper walllets would be the way to go.

So how do I find out if this walletgenerator.net is actually safe?

I could just use keypass and create my own seed but how do I know what the seed rules are for each coin, some require 81, some 21, some take capitals some dont, some use numbers etc.

And then, if I get a provate and public key, it seems this generator doesn't provide a view key. So how would I safley view that my funds have successfully transfered to the paper wallet, without having to input the seed or private key online??

On another note, can I send like 5 coins first to test, then find a way to view the funds are there, and then send the rest without ruining the paper wallet?

And I am assuming that once they are on a paper wallet I must keep up to date with the coins to ensure I don't need to put them onto an exchange or something in case of a fork or some kind of upgrade which might make my coins worthless lol.

Thanks.
Tendo
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 121
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
December 06, 2017, 08:31:53 AM
 #5


And I am assuming that once they are on a paper wallet I must keep up to date with the coins to ensure I don't need to put them onto an exchange or something in case of a fork or some kind of upgrade which might make my coins worthless lol.


Thats kinda my fear. I dont want to have such a vast portfolio I miss something like a fork or change. Then I miss a free coin opportunity or the more crazy fork that burns one coin for another. Then your just left with a voided piece of data that is not worth anything.
cynical
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 117


View Profile
December 06, 2017, 09:27:33 AM
 #6

The only desktop wallet i know with multi coin support is exodus,
but it doesnt support all coins, just about 10 or 15.
Have you considered using coinomi, its not a desktop wallet but a mobile wallet with private key control?
it also supports a great number of currencies.

SetupMasternodes.com - Full Setup and VPS Masternode Management - Choose a masternode coin to get started in as little as 1 hour...
LoyceV
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1302
Merit: 2264


Self-made Legendary!


View Profile WWW
December 06, 2017, 10:33:50 AM
 #7

So how do I find out if this walletgenerator.net is actually safe?
Apart from checking the source code by yourself: find other's opinions online. This isn't 100% fool proof though, and I never took the time to look into it, that's why it's not on my trust-list (yet).

Quote
I could just use keypass and create my own seed but how do I know what the seed rules are for each coin, some require 81, some 21, some take capitals some dont, some use numbers etc.
You'll need to investigate each coin individually. Each coin has a website that will explain it, but it is indeed a lot of work. Then again, you should probably have done that before buying them anyway!
I think most people have no idea what they're buying, that's why ICOs have been such a great success this year. If you just buy something and keep it on an exchange, I assume you have no idea what it is. If you investigate what it is first, you'll also find out how to store your coins.

Quote
And then, if I get a private and public key, it seems this generator doesn't provide a view key. So how would I safley view that my funds have successfully transfered to the paper wallet, without having to input the seed or private key online??
Most (or all?) coins have a block explorer online, where you can enter any address and view it's balance. This too would be good information to keep with the wallet, so that you'll remember it years later.

Quote
On another note, can I send like 5 coins first to test, then find a way to view the funds are there, and then send the rest without ruining the paper wallet?
Of course! I've tested some paper wallets with small amounts too, it felt strange at first to just trust a piece of paper.
As long as you only check the balance of the address, and keep the private key private, you can add new funds to the same address in the future.
The moment you use the private key to check the balance in an online (hot) wallet, your paper wallet is no longer "cold". That means, if your computer would be compromised, your coins can get stolen. As long as your private key has never touched anything online, it's considered "cold storage".

Quote
And I am assuming that once they are on a paper wallet I must keep up to date with the coins to ensure I don't need to put them onto an exchange or something in case of a fork or some kind of upgrade which might make my coins worthless lol.
I like to keep track of my investments anyway, so this seems to be a good plan. Some coins/tokens have had a "token exchange" in de past, in which you had to exchange your old tokens for a new blockchain. I've read about one case in which someone was too late to exchange them, and his old tokens became worthless. I don't expect any decent coin to do that, but it is something to keep in mind.
Forks are not a problem, as long as you keep track of it in the future. So, if you made a Bitcoin paper wallet in January this year, the private key now gives access to: Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold and BitCore. I expect this list to become much longer in the future.

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!