Bitcoin Forum
May 26, 2019, 06:30:19 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 [178] 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts  (Read 83940 times)
MagicSmoker
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 420
Merit: 181



View Profile
July 02, 2018, 11:54:55 AM
 #3541

...
I've said it before and I'll say it again: good technology - even the best technology - won't save you if you alienate your supporters and flake out on most of your goals, promises and commitments.

You've got your point right, even I may understand the reasons pointed to keep ASIC friendly, but the feeling that I was deceived has not yet passed....

I, too, ended up coming around on the reasoning behind sticking with original Cryptonight, but after thinking on it some more I identified a few other potential problems:

* There are no new CN ASICs for sale - after Monero forked all of the ASIC manufacturers scrapped plans to make additional batches. Consequently there is a finite number of ASICs out there that could be used to secure the network, and by all accounts a good fraction of those have simply been turned off (just a couple weeks ago DERO was flirting with 2GH/s - yes, 2000MH/s; now it is <500MH/s).

* That finite number of ASICs will dwindle over time as they begin to fail, and fail they will since the manufacturers typically expect them to be profitable to operate for just a few months at most; ie, reliability and a long lifespan aren't top design priorities.

* Miners like me with a few CPUs/GPUs have to take a more long-term approach to projects if for no other reason than our hardware wouldn't earn very much if we sold what we mined on a daily or weekly basis. For example, I have all of my CN-optimized hardware mining ITNS because their project intends to do something unique (a distributed, peer-to-peer VPN service that you pay for with crypto), but it is almost never the most profitable CN-variant coin to mine.

That said, I still agree that hidden mining via private FPGAs - and even ASICs - is a potentially serious problem, and that forking every few months to head them off is not, perhaps, as practical of a solution as I once thought it was. That doesn't excuse the haphazard way the DERO team decided to stick with CN, nor the hamfisted way it has dealt with those of us who were deeply disappointed at this abrupt change of face.

GET 25 FREE SPINS AT REGISTRATION
GET 100% BONUS ON FIRST DEPOSIT
PLAY NOW
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1558895419
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558895419

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558895419
Reply with quote  #2

1558895419
Report to moderator
Coindgr
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1033
Merit: 500



View Profile
July 02, 2018, 11:59:58 AM
 #3542

A bit dumb question
Last 2 months was not paying attention to Dero project... so can I simply get new binaries, start it and point to my wallet?
:/

Not quite. You do need to get new binaries from http://seeds.dero.io/atlantis/ (no difference between the plainly named versions and the ones with atlantis in the name), but the database format is different so either sync from 0 or else download a snapshot from the /blockchain folder. Next you will need to recreate your wallet by restoring from seed (use the save seed command in the old wallet if you haven't already down so for backup purposes then use the restore from seed command in the new wallet after the daemon finishes syncing).

Note there is a bug in the Windows binaries that (sometimes? always?) adds an "m" to the beginning of the first word in the seed, so correct if necessary.


Regarding the wallet restoring, I've tried once, and the seed was giving me error, even after several atempts looking carefully to the words. The only way I found was to use the secret key, this method can be used also

           ▀██▄ ▄██▀
            ▐█████▌
           ▄███▀███▄
         ▄████▄  ▀███▄
       ▄███▀ ▀██▄  ▀███▄
     ▄███▀  ▄█████▄  ▀███▄
   ▄███▀  ▄███▀ ▀███▄  ▀███▄
  ███▀  ▄████▌   ▐████▄  ▀███
 ███   ██▀  ██▄ ▄██  ▀██   ███
███   ███  ███   ███  ███   ███
███   ███   ███████   ███   ███
 ███   ███▄▄       ▄▄███   ███
  ███▄   ▀▀█████████▀▀   ▄███
   ▀████▄▄           ▄▄████▀
      ▀▀███████████████▀▀
DeepOnion
.Anonymous and Untraceable.
ANN  Whitepaper  Facebook  Twitter  Telegram  Discord 





      ▄▄██████████▄▄
    ▄███▀▀      ▀▀█▀   ▄▄
   ███▀              ▄███
  ███              ▄███▀   ▄▄
 ███▌  ▄▄▄▄      ▄███▀   ▄███
▐███  ██████   ▄███▀   ▄███▀
███▌ ███  ███▄███▀   ▄███▀
███▌ ███   ████▀   ▄███▀
███▌  ███   █▀   ▄███▀  ███
▐███   ███     ▄███▀   ███
 ███▌   ███  ▄███▀     ███
  ███    ██████▀      ███
   ███▄             ▄███
    ▀███▄▄       ▄▄███▀
      ▀▀███████████▀▀
.
CaptDero
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 33


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 12:47:17 PM
 #3543

...

That said, I still agree that hidden mining via private FPGAs - and even ASICs - is a potentially serious problem, and that forking every few months to head them off is not, perhaps, as practical of a solution as I once thought it was. That doesn't excuse the haphazard way the DERO team decided to stick with CN, nor the hamfisted way it has dealt with those of us who were deeply disappointed at this abrupt change of face.



I am sorry many got fire though not to be.
But team tried to explain all and keep calm until few tried to cross all the limits of decency.

Mining, books can be written on this subject and lots have changed since the beginning.
@MagicSmoker there are not much genuine cpu/gpu miners left like you. Time has changed.

Also Hashrate is much smoother and better now. Plans for brining FPGA solutions too in the DERO network.
GhostPlayer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 01:43:55 PM
Last edit: July 02, 2018, 02:22:22 PM by GhostPlayer
 #3544



I am sorry many got fire though not to be.
But team tried to explain all and keep calm until few tried to cross all the limits of decency.

Mining, books can be written on this subject and lots have changed since the beginning.
@MagicSmoker there are not much genuine cpu/gpu miners left like you. Time has changed.

Also Hashrate is much smoother and better now. Plans for brining FPGA solutions too in the DERO network.

 Sorry, have to call complete BS on this.

 Plans for FPGA? Sure, many have lambo and moon plans too. You clearly have no idea what this entails, from a production phase to end-user.
Of course, extremely well code litirated folk will manage, but leaves out 99% of the general populous. It is a pain to maintain with any minor glitch

 And about selling pre-packaged FPGA yourself, is the ultimate conflict of interest.

 And the fact you are commenting this, means you are totally in the loop - probably the reason for the anti-ASIC reversal in the first place. FPGA for this algo already exists, so majority of the work done. Meaning, YOU GUYS ARE VERY LIKELY THE ONES MINING HIDDEN

 If find all this disturbingly suspicious.

 With every single post from the team, you guys shoot yourselves in the foot.
jopari
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 02:40:28 PM
 #3545

Get a grip, GhostPlayer... If you want some DERO, buy some. Otherwise, why such aggression? The reasoning behind the team's decision is sound and has been discussed endlessly and repetitiously now: whatever algorithm you choose, an ASIC can be made. At least with a well-known ASIC algorithm, there is a large hash rate and thus a secure network (much harder to attack). Plus, the ASICs are commercially available from multiple sellers for those who really do want to mine.

DERO has some great technology, has produced some excellent results already, and has an exciting roadmap ahead.

Don't spread conspiracy theories. Moreover, it is good to be charitable, especially to those who have given you this exciting project and asked nothing in return.
coloredcoin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 193
Merit: 101


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 02:55:08 PM
 #3546

Where is the windows wallet,want to try this platform?
jopari
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 03:01:17 PM
 #3547

Where is the windows wallet,want to try this platform?

You'll probably want https://git.dero.io/DeroProject/atlantis/src/master/dero_windows_amd64.zip (64 bit).

There are instructions for setting up a wallet at https://forum.dero.io/t/create-backup-restore-dero-wallet-in-one-minute/110

(If you find the sync to be too slow, you can speed it up by putting the file at http://seeds.dero.io/atlantis/atlantisDB/derod_database.db in the "mainnet" folder created by the daemon when you first run it. You'll need to complete the sync by running the daemon after doing so, nonetheless.)
GhostPlayer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
Last edit: July 02, 2018, 04:00:36 PM by GhostPlayer
 #3548

Get a grip, GhostPlayer... If you want some DERO, buy some. Otherwise, why such aggression? The reasoning behind the team's decision is sound and has been discussed endlessly and repetitiously now: whatever algorithm you choose, an ASIC can be made. At least with a well-known ASIC algorithm, there is a large hash rate and thus a secure network (much harder to attack). Plus, the ASICs are commercially available from multiple sellers for those who really do want to mine.

DERO has some great technology, has produced some excellent results already, and has an exciting roadmap ahead.

Don't spread conspiracy theories. Moreover, it is good to be charitable, especially to those who have given you this exciting project and asked nothing in return.

 I have a grip. That is why I am being so vocal about it.

No agression, I did not use profanity or strong language. But I do get defensive when I smell something is off. And, in some weird way, I do feel an obligation as a trusted member of this community to state my views.

 and if anyone knows who i am, you know I as quick to critique as I am to being refuted and if I am wrong - I admit it and appologise.

 Innuendo? Maybe. Just pointing out my view. Speaking of agression, what about someone who invested in mining GPU only to have their tables turned? What about the clear censorship? Where is the promissed code? What about those who decided to buy DERO based on the premise that it would not be ASIC mineable? All of these are clearly defrauded. Everything that was being said would happen, happened the exact opposite way.

 Luckily, I hold zero Dero and I dont mine this at all, nor will I ever. I am strongly anti-ASIC, but yes, thinking of getting back to mining, may get me a hobby Vegas 64 liquid cooled.

 This Dero ASIC argument is total BS. Even if you could control the network 80% and cause mayhem and double spends, the attacker would be caught red handed and a quick fork would resolve this - with zero loss of credibility to the team for acting correctly - not to even start debating the megalithic finantial cost of suh an attempt - to which it would bring zero gains to the attacker.

 Get real. I've seen hundreds of projects in the hashrate hands of single majorities, and until now no 51% has been truly effective. Monacoin, zencash, bitcoin gold - sure - it can happen - but to this day not one single project went to dust because of a successful attack. Where is the financial incentive?

 Dero has no great technology, its a mix-match of several known techs. I see no "excellent result", no current use case, no MVP.
just a mineable rolling blockchain, as of now.
 
 About your last statement, sorry if I may sound zingy, but you are really either too inexperienced or really have no clue at all.

 This is not how you create an open-source decentralized blockchain project. The way they are behaving belongs to the coorporate boardroom.
MATTX
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 74
Merit: 1


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 04:07:45 PM
 #3549

Get a grip, GhostPlayer... If you want some DERO, buy some. Otherwise, why such aggression? The reasoning behind the team's decision is sound and has been discussed endlessly and repetitiously now: whatever algorithm you choose, an ASIC can be made. At least with a well-known ASIC algorithm, there is a large hash rate and thus a secure network (much harder to attack). Plus, the ASICs are commercially available from multiple sellers for those who really do want to mine.

DERO has some great technology, has produced some excellent results already, and has an exciting roadmap ahead.

Don't spread conspiracy theories. Moreover, it is good to be charitable, especially to those who have given you this exciting project and asked nothing in return.

 I have a grip. That is why I am being so vocal. No agression, I did not use profanity or strong language. But I do get defensive when I smell something is off. And, in some weird way, I do feel an obligation as a trusted member of this community to state my views.

 and if anyone knows who i am, you know I as quick to critique as I am to being refuted and if I am wrong - I admit it and appologise.

 Innuendo? Maybe. Just pointing out my view. Speaking of agression, what about someone who invested in mining GPU only to have their tables turned? What about the clear censorship? Where is the promissed code? What about those who decided to buy DERO based on the premise that it would not be ASIC mineable? All of these are clearly defrauded.

 Luckily, I hold zero Dero and I dont mine this at all, nor will I ever. I am strongly anti-ASIC, but yes, thinking of getting back to mining, may get me a hobby Vegas 64 liquid cooled.

 This Dero ASIC argument is total BS. Even if you could control the network 80% and cause mayhem and double spends, the attacker would be caught red handed and a quick fork would resolve this - with zero loss of credibility to the team for acting correctly - not to even start debating the megalithic finantial cost of suh an attempt - to which it would bring zero gains to the attacker.

Get real. I've seen hundreds of projects in the hashrate hands of single majorities, and until no 51% has been truly effective. Monacoin, zencash, bitcoin gold - sure - it can happen - but to this day not one single project went to dust because of a successful attack.

Dero has no great technology, its a mix-match of several known techs. I see no excellent result, no current use case, no MVP.
 
 About your last statement, sorry if I may sound zingy, but you are really either too inexperienced or really have no clue at all.

 This is not how you create an open-source decentralized blockchain project.

No offense why don't you go with the your above coins and leave dero alone.
Dero does not have great tech whats the big deal there are 1000s of other coins with great tech move on.
Dero is asic favorable coin. Dero project is not open source if you missed. No gui wallet no big exchanges Anonymous devs premine and much more you even can't dream.
No need to reply.


DERO: CryptoNote Privacy + Smart Contracts   (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2525508)
b9ron
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 99
Merit: 1


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 05:47:53 PM
 #3550

Exactly, for some reasons they try to stay under the radar. Roll Eyes
CorePrime95
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 189
Merit: 101


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 05:50:31 PM
 #3551

Exactly, for some reasons they try to stay under the radar. Roll Eyes

And still multiple people come to FUD this unknown coin. Maybe some are full of envy Smiley
krypt0id
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 148
Merit: 2


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 07:21:34 PM
 #3552

Exactly, for some reasons they try to stay under the radar. Roll Eyes

And still multiple people come to FUD this unknown coin. Maybe some are full of envy Smiley

The amount of FUD for such a small marketcap is pretty extraordinary.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
b9ron
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 99
Merit: 1


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 07:39:45 PM
 #3553

Did you see the latest ASIC from Bitmain (Z9 Mini) is an hybrid FPGA / ASIC ?  Roll Eyes

bravetheheat
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 460
Merit: 251


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 07:53:13 PM
 #3554

Hi, develop team do you still develop DERO now, I think this project has a brilliant idea but lack developer.
jopari
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 02, 2018, 08:26:11 PM
Last edit: July 02, 2018, 08:38:17 PM by jopari
 #3555

Hi, develop team do you still develop DERO now, I think this project has a brilliant idea but lack developer.

I'm pretty sure they do continue development (and the devs are very productive from what I've seen): GUI wallets, subaddresses and atomic swaps are all planned for this quarter (plus smart contract testing); and private smart contracts are due to be generally available next quarter. We should also soon see the DERO Foundation set up, the source code released to general availability, and the team beginning to attend conferences and market DERO more widely.

Have a look here for the current state of affairs: https://reddit.com/r/DeroProject/comments/8u8kjm/dero_atlantis_mainnet_officially_released_200x/
krypt0id
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 148
Merit: 2


View Profile
July 03, 2018, 02:31:40 AM
 #3556

Hi, develop team do you still develop DERO now, I think this project has a brilliant idea but lack developer.

Haha... Cool story, bro.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
MagicSmoker
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 420
Merit: 181



View Profile
July 03, 2018, 12:40:49 PM
 #3557

I understand the desire to defend something you are emotionally/financially invested in, but if you are turning a blind eye to all of the problems that have transpired over the last 2 weeks then you are actually doing the project a disservice. No one is ever 100% right, 100% of the time, and that includes the DERO team. Dismissing questions or complaints as FUD is easy; coming up with well-reasoned rebuttals is much more difficult, but ultimately more valuable if your goal is to promote, much less improve, DERO.

scott d
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 204
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 03, 2018, 04:23:35 PM
 #3558

what do you think for the dero vision in the long time?

for me the technological level of the project is very valid, but the dero team should increase its relational compradio to the public.

And any criticism must be welcome, it serves to improve.

I am a holder and I believe in the project, but the shot must be corrected. Dev work a code, pr and marketing manager work with the peolple Wink


I understand the desire to defend something you are emotionally/financially invested in, but if you are turning a blind eye to all of the problems that have transpired over the last 2 weeks then you are actually doing the project a disservice. No one is ever 100% right, 100% of the time, and that includes the DERO team. Dismissing questions or complaints as FUD is easy; coming up with well-reasoned rebuttals is much more difficult, but ultimately more valuable if your goal is to promote, much less improve, DERO.


krypt0id
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 148
Merit: 2


View Profile
July 04, 2018, 12:51:40 AM
 #3559

I understand the desire to defend something you are emotionally/financially invested in, but if you are turning a blind eye to all of the problems that have transpired over the last 2 weeks then you are actually doing the project a disservice. No one is ever 100% right, 100% of the time, and that includes the DERO team. Dismissing questions or complaints as FUD is easy; coming up with well-reasoned rebuttals is much more difficult, but ultimately more valuable if your goal is to promote, much less improve, DERO.



Reasonable defenses can only be repeated so many times. Dero will be fine whether or not this FUD spree continues. Other cryptonote projects are getting attacked and becoming stale. The fact is, time will tell and this project is very much in it's infancy. Other projects are now becoming older and frail in comparison. Open invitations to attack the network never closed and it's still running along without hiccups. Defending an investment and reading between the lines should not be confused with one another.


Edit: "lack developer" is total FUD, BTW.

DERO - Secure. Private. Smart Contracts.
daniel.roman
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 129
Merit: 15


View Profile
July 04, 2018, 03:31:44 AM
 #3560

...
When earlier everything fell in price, this coin was growing upwards. Unfortunately now it is obvious that something is going wrong ... What happened? Why did people start selling their coins?

1) DERO abruptly decided to embrace ASICs after months of claiming it would do the opposite, alienating many long time supporters.

2) Some of most public-facing members of the DERO team - community manager --Serena-- and "unspecified role" team member Mojo - have attacked or banned anyone on the DERO Discord and Slack channels who questioned the above decision, much less argued against it. Granted, some of those people were getting tiresome and others were less-than-respectful, but I daresay that part of the job description for community manager is dealing with the angry and upset, and one should be especially sympathetic when there is a very valid reason for that anger (see reason 1).

3) The source code was supposed to be part of the Atlantis release, but it was delayed by "a few days" so that people with a masters or doctorate in cryptography could evaluate it for bugs/exploits; then it was delayed for a month or more so the DERO Foundation can be set up in Malta or Croatia or whatever.

4) Many Q2/18 goals - like the GUI wallet - were shifted to Q3/18, though to be fair, they did dramatically accelerate the development of Atlantis; then again, the reason for that was to fork off ASICs (see reason 1 again).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: good technology - even the best technology - won't save you if you alienate your supporters and flake out on most of your goals, promises and commitments.

Totally agree, they promise something and after all the support a lot menbers of this community gave to them, they just prove themselves to run a project with a lack of planning. And that they are not willing to accomplish what do they offer. Is interesting I used to check this thread every day, after the lies of Atlantis anti asic algo I still try to believe in the project, but every time I came here something have change.

Now they do not release the code as they promise, and are thinking in a foundation, so they just did it once again.

The real problem is that people of this community put o lot of money and time on this and the 3 team members of DERO are making money thought people who just expect that they be more professionals accomplish what do they have promises to this comunity. And the unique answer to that they love to say come back when you feel comfortable. Is evident a lot of people are not buying this so they are selling they coins, just see the markets the las weeks.
Pages: « 1 ... 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 [178] 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!