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Author Topic: Worlds Most Economical Bitcoin Mining Contracts!  (Read 11248 times)
1.21gigawatts
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July 03, 2011, 06:22:47 AM
 #21

No haters, we just want mathematical proof why purchasing a mining contract would be more beneficial than just buying BTC outright.
If you can't prove it mathematically, there's no benefit.
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bitminers
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July 03, 2011, 06:35:55 AM
 #22

It's personal choice and personal opinion of customers!

Some people want to just buy bitcoins, Some people want to mine them without any effort.

Look at competitors rates and do the math on Rig Rentals and Mining Contracts, there are a lot out there now.

 Smiley
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July 03, 2011, 07:02:43 AM
 #23

You keep dodging the math question.  There's a big difference with Vladimir contracts because he started them in Jan when bitcoins were less than $1 per bitcoin.  You'll get more customers if you can mathematically demonstrate why buying a mining contract with you is more beneficial than buying bitcoins outright.
skyhigh
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July 03, 2011, 08:14:38 AM
 #24

I'm not hating. I'm pointing out that renting a rig from ANYONE to mine is outright STUPID and people in this thread demonstrated why.  Let me try it again. LOL.


If a person wants to contract 1 Gh from you, he needs to pay you $1200 US dollars up front.  When the 3 months are up  his final product is  XY of bitcoins. ONLY bitcoins. Right now he could buy 75 BTC with the same $1200 US dollars he needs to wire to you to rent a rig from you. When 3 months are up, the guy that rented rig from you will end up with a lot less bitcoins in 99.99999% of the time. Probably around 50 BTC instead of 75 BTC if he would just buy it on the exchange.

The end result after 3 months is same product. Bitcoins, and in the case he would rent a rig from you he will end up with a lot less bitcoin product. Simple as that. BTC price at that time doesn't matter because he COULD already buy 75 BTC on the day he would pay you $1200 to rent a rig from you.

Why would anyone want to have 50 BTC in 3 months time if they CAN have 75 BTC right now and in 3 months time for the SAME AMOUNT OF CASH .. 50% difference for same amount of fiat currency.


This is not hating. This is simple math. Your explanations how some wants to buy bitcoin and others want to mine makes no sense, because the guys that rent your rig don't mine, they get end product - bitcoins. It's just that unfortunately they get 50% less then they would if they would just buy it for $1200.

The fact that others are offering same type of business for EVEN more  doesn't change anything. This is a stupid business aimed at people who doesn't understand the simple math behind it.  
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July 03, 2011, 09:49:06 AM
 #25

"$1200 for 75 bitcoins right now"
Your mining contract might be desirable to the other math literate party is if:

You can guarantee more than 75 bitcoins (you specify the guaranteed amount) after 3 months, for $1200 cash given to you right now, upfront.
or
You can guarantee 75 bitcoins after 3 months for a payment of (($1200/3)+$X) paid to you per month for 3 months.  $X would be the premium or the interest someone is paying you for a payment plan to end up with 75 bitcoins in 3 months because they can't afford to spend $1200 right now to buy 75 bitcoins, but they still want to end up with 75 bitcoins after 3 months.


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July 03, 2011, 11:54:24 AM
 #26

Hi,
Can you explain me something here?...:

If I buy from you MC-100      1000 Mhash    $390 Per Month
I will pay you 390$

Difficult factor is: 1379223.42967
Hash Rate (mega-hashes / second): 1000
Exchange Rate ($/฿): $15

for 1 month i will make: $332.54

so i will pay you $390 and will make $332.54 = i will lost $57.46

What is the reason that will convince me to lost $57 ?

And this is in current difficult. It will be change after few days so in fact i will make more less than $332.54 that mean more loses for me.

Let's color the MOON: YP4ZV8yabKGBKG2uNWHQBwrdURkyxqst4D
Before to do business with me you can check my  BitcoinFeedback; ebay and .net developer profile
nebiki
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July 03, 2011, 12:05:59 PM
 #27

nebiki - LOL no scams here, do some research on Rig Rentals and Bitcoin Mining Contracts!

Use google and do some research first!

i don't need to do any research to understand that these services are basically some people desperately trying to make some money without having to worry about anything. there's just no reason to sell mining power. if it was profitable for your customers, why wouldn't you do it yourself? because there's a risk which you don't want to take. you throw this risk at your customers and are safe yourself, because you have already been paid. this in itself is wrong, considering these prices it's even worse.

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bitminers
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July 03, 2011, 12:51:04 PM
 #28

Are you guys Miners? We are!

If you do the price based on $15 now, few days time it maybe $13, next week it maybe $5 or it could be $50.

So, our prices are very competitive for this market, what does it cost you to build a machine with 1Ghash and run it for 3 Months??
nebiki
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July 03, 2011, 01:07:29 PM
 #29

at 180 eur per 6950 which produce about 400Mhash/s each, it's 540eur for 1.2Ghash/s plus another 250 eur for psu+board+cpu+ram. 800 eur for the rig. it consumes about 700W, which is 1500kWh for running it for 3 months. we pay 0.23 eur per kWh (VERY different in the united states, at about 7-8 eurocents). so the rig including running it for 3 months costs 1150 eur. that's 1550 AUD. if you pay 8 eurocents per kWh, that's just a little bit more than 1200 AUD. oh - and it's 1.2Ghash/s, that's even more than 1.

edit: imagine 6 months.

this service is too expensive for anyone who wants to buy just 1-3 Ghash/s. because you can easily set them up at home without having to worry about anything. it becomes a different matter when we're talking about 4+ rigs, which is rather complicated to setup and maintain. you can't just have them stand in your basement without additional cooling. that's when i would want to find a service which houses my computers at a decent cost.

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bitminers
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July 03, 2011, 01:35:53 PM
 #30

nebiki - Most clients with this Mining contract want A lot more than 1Ghash Per month, which is exactly right if you where running 4 or more rigs etc.

We have custom contracts if you read on the site, the small list of contracts are for people who just want to try out mining, but the real Mining Contracts are 5Ghash+
MaGNeT
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July 03, 2011, 02:24:27 PM
 #31

nebiki - Most clients with this Mining contract want A lot more than 1Ghash Per month, which is exactly right if you where running 4 or more rigs etc.

We have custom contracts if you read on the site, the small list of contracts are for people who just want to try out mining, but the real Mining Contracts are 5Ghash+


It doesn't matter how you explain it to us.
In the end there is profit, for you...

If a person wants to make profit on Bitcoins he better buys BTC now... Lower cost, same risk...
nebiki
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July 03, 2011, 02:33:51 PM
 #32

how much would a 25Ghash/s 3month contract cost? i've simulated the price which a serious server housing company would take for this. 4x 16 amps 230V, 1x 40HE rack incl. 16kW cooling and security.

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nebiki
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July 03, 2011, 02:34:29 PM
 #33

sorry, double post

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skyhigh
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July 03, 2011, 03:14:26 PM
 #34

Are you guys Miners? We are!

If you do the price based on $15 now, few days time it maybe $13, next week it maybe $5 or it could be $50.

So, our prices are very competitive for this market, what does it cost you to build a machine with 1Ghash and run it for 3 Months??

I know you understand what we trying to tell you, but you still keep on trying to explain something that is not important at all. Price in $ doesn't matter, only the amount of bitcoins you end up with in the end matters. If a person rents a rig from you, they end up with less bitcoins. Your prices are not competitive because whoever rents a rig from you ends up with 50% less bitcoins when the contract end.

How is that competitive? Unless you want compare it another guy that offers SAME BUSINESS THAT MAKES NO SENSE. That doesn't make it any less STUPID.

You, Vladimir and whoever else is offering this kind of service, needs to get more creative and come up with something that makes sense. Or else you just throwing a bad light on the whole bitcoin community, because you are after dumb people who can't add 1+1 on their own while in the meantime you insulting everyone else with stupid excuses that your service is somehow viable. Everyone except rare few knows it doesn't make any sense what so ever, but they just don't bother telling you that 1232 times.

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July 03, 2011, 03:24:17 PM
 #35

You, Vladimir and whoever else is offering this kind of service, needs to get more creative and come up with something that makes sense. Or else you just throwing a bad light on the whole bitcoin community, because you are after dumb people who can't add 1+1 on their own while in the meantime you insulting everyone else with stupid excuses that your service is somehow viable. Everyone except rare few knows it doesn't make any sense what so ever, but they just don't bother telling you that 1232 times.

The only dumb person here is you, m8. It seems you have stuck in a 3 dimensional space-time continuum, while the rest of the world is in 4 dimensional one. Wake up.


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skyhigh
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July 03, 2011, 03:44:01 PM
 #36

Vladimir, if I was the dumb here, I'd be contacting you or OP for the fine service you two provide. I'll pass and let the smarts from the 4 dimensional space contact you for your nice deals.

Enjoy your tea & biscuits
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July 03, 2011, 03:46:57 PM
 #37

You, Vladimir and whoever else is offering this kind of service, needs to get more creative and come up with something that makes sense. Or else you just throwing a bad light on the whole bitcoin community, because you are after dumb people who can't add 1+1 on their own while in the meantime you insulting everyone else with stupid excuses that your service is somehow viable. Everyone except rare few knows it doesn't make any sense what so ever, but they just don't bother telling you that 1232 times.

The only dumb person here is you, m8. It seems you have stuck in a 3 dimensional space-time continuum, while the rest of the world is in 4 dimensional one. Wake up.



Can you make the calculations for me, what's the advantage of a mining contract compared to buying BTC or mining at home.
KarlSpaat
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July 03, 2011, 04:02:54 PM
 #38

I run a mining farm for myself and when im reading about mining contracts, i have a question.

Why should I prefer mining contracts instead of my own rig?

A contract should give me Bitcoins cheaper than my own rig. With cheaper i mean the sum of productions costs (energy, space, cooling, hardware price decline, prices for repairing hardware), time to keep the rig running (build computers, install operating system, update drivers and miners, check status of miners, fix problems), the real uptime of the miners and the risk of running own hardware.
Im very experienced and can calculate the real production cost of a bitcoin accurately.

By the way i'd like to get PMs, if I forgot something in this list.


So which type of this costs are cheaper if a company builds up a rig and run it? If they aren't cheaper there is no reason of buying a contract.


Some of these costs are obvious, like hardware, energy, uptime) and others depend on how much u pay for your own worktime)

  • A company gets better hardware prices, if they buy large numbers. But in order to get these prices, they should buy at least hardware for 20k €. I worked for a small E-Shop and i know that companies just get good hardware prices, if they buy large amounts or often. Otherwise the casual shops are cheaper.
  • Energy and space is cheaper for companies, at a specific size, you can't run a rig in your own house anymore
  • Cooling can be simple, if you have a room and just open all windows, so you don't need to run a cooling machine. Large Rigs in production halls can benefit from open windows, too Wink
  • Hardware price decline is the same for companies as for me
  • The larger the rig, the better is the uptime. One damaged part influence Hashrate relatively less in large rigs, and having some spare parts are relative cheaper.
  • Companies have more experience in setting up and running rigs than the casual user, so the time needed to build a miner and keep it up is less
  • The risk for companies is higher, because they need to pay space rental, and even if they shut down a rig, they have to pay loans and rental for at least a month. This limits running mining farms to small companies without employees, or their farm has to be real large

If i put this all together, i cant imagine, that a large company would setup a farm. Just some nerds who doesnt need employees can do this without too much risk. A production hall is not that expensive so the risk is limited to less than 1000€.

So finally there are some good reasons why a contract can be cheaper than your own rig. Better Uptime, less manhours to setup and keep it running. No risk of loosing hardware or hardware price declines. They have less energy and maybe slightly less hardware costs. But the manhours are more expensive, a company wants to get at least 6% revenue of their investment and has a higher risk so they need to get higher reserve.

So beginners can rent hashpower because they arent experienced enough to build their own rig. But for people with enough experience, the only advantage is less risk, slightly better energy and hardware costs. People who are too lazy to run a rig should just buy bitcoins...


But if you make a contract more risky by paying 3 month at least, renting becomes useless.



PS: I would really like to get response, if i forgot some points in this list, or if you think im wrong in some points.
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July 03, 2011, 04:36:46 PM
 #39

KarlSpaat, you are right on everything, but you missing the point here. You don't have to mine to get bitcoins. If you rent a rig .. you get bitcoins as a final product. Since Vladimir called me dumb, I will use his service as an example.

He charges $700 per month for a minimum of 4 months or a total of $2800 to rent 1 Gh.  If a person wants to rent this, he or she needs to wire him $2800 upfront. In return Vladimir will send daily BTC transfers in amount of statistical expectation of daily bitcoin generation. At the current difficulty of 1379223 this comes out to 0.73 BTC per day until the difficulty re-targets.

4 months x 30 days == 120 days  EVEN at the same difficulty if he sends you 0.73 BTC every day you will receive 87.6 BTC  for the $2800 you wired him. Reality is difficulty will be higher by the time your contract with him runs out, but that's completely beside the point here.

The day that you buy his contract for $2800  you could also buy BTC on the exchange for $2800.  The end result is same - BITCOINS. If you would buy at today's price you would get 180 BTC, while Vladimir will send you 87.6 BTC if the difficulty would stay the same.

This has nothing to do with hardware, electricity, uptime, or whatever else comes to your mind. Whoever sends him the cash to rent a rig, that same person could buy BTC on the exchange that same day.

Vladimir explained in one sentence in his thread :   You buy a contract, you get daily BTC transfers in amount of statistical expectation of daily bitcoin generation for contracted computational power during lifetime of the contract.

If a person buy a contract from these services, they don't even have to actually mine any coins. They COULD buy $2800 worth of BTC on the day you wire them cash. Right now he would get 180 BTC .. Everyday while difficulty at 1379223 he sends you 0.73 BTC to your address. When difficulty will re-target next week he would calculate what he needs to send you daily again. Even if we keep difficulty at 1379223 for the rest of the contract time period of 120 days he would only send you 87.6 BTC  while he COULD buy 180 BTC on the day you wired him cash for his contract.


Isn't this fantastic ?! But then again, I'm the dumb one.
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July 03, 2011, 04:43:33 PM
 #40

really nice read, skyhigh.

but you can cut it even shorter:

would you trust this guy?

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