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Author Topic: Is PrimeDice really (provably)fair?  (Read 32042 times)
Ejaculation
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July 29, 2014, 10:22:04 PM
 #221

This site is scum.

Why did you have to bump this thread Sad -_-

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sandykho47
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July 30, 2014, 09:34:23 AM
 #222

I think all dice gambling is same
last time i gamble with win chance 60%, lose 10x row

and if you roll with big bet, you usually los even with high chance win

that's why lot people open gamble site

Kemampuanku Tidak semua orang memiliki dan dapat melakukannya . Tidak memakan kaum sendiri . dan mempunyai kode etik yang tidak masuk akal.
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July 30, 2014, 10:48:46 AM
 #223

I believe that Stunna has already fixed this, and made it so you can choose your client seed. I think the client seed is generated in the client with JS now.

Can anyone confirm? I am not a programmer and can't look myself.

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July 30, 2014, 07:06:15 PM
 #224

I think all dice gambling is same
last time i gamble with win chance 60%, lose 10x row

and if you roll with big bet, you usually los even with high chance win

that's why lot people open gamble site

I think you're wrong.

Most dice sites are provably fair, which means you can check that the rolls are fairly generated.

You need to do a little work like verifying hashes, picking random seeds and such like, but if you are willing to do that you can be sure the site isn't cheating you.

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July 31, 2014, 03:02:00 AM
 #225

I think all dice gambling is same
last time i gamble with win chance 60%, lose 10x row

and if you roll with big bet, you usually los even with high chance win

that's why lot people open gamble site

I think you're wrong.

Most dice sites are provably fair, which means you can check that the rolls are fairly generated.

You need to do a little work like verifying hashes, picking random seeds and such like, but if you are willing to do that you can be sure the site isn't cheating you.

Exactly.
But the problem is many gamblers don't really understand anything about SHA hashing and so they probably consider the "provably fair" just a gimmick.

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July 31, 2014, 04:10:43 AM
 #226

But the problem is many gamblers don't really understand anything about SHA hashing and so they probably consider the "provably fair" just a gimmick.

That's true.

All I would say is if you're too lazy or too dumb to understand how provably fair gambling works, please don't make comments about it.

Leave that to the people who understand it.

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September 24, 2014, 10:31:24 AM
 #227

PD is definitely  a scam.  It wouldn't exist if it wasn't.......  I know for a fact the owners track peoples IP address to see how much you made off them, then they manipulate your rolls.  The 'seed change' is just there to make it look nice.

Provably isn't even a god damn word, its made up bullshit.....

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September 24, 2014, 10:38:22 AM
 #228

Does anybody have any recommendations for a legit dice site? Im sick of losing money... lost 1 btc to this shit site and im not losing anymore..... ppl are asswads on there too and the admins mute me for calling somebody a pussy when I get constantly harassed?  People try to act like ur friend but are just dickheads tryin to make you lose money in the end........  I have a feeling PD is a close knit group of friends that just scams the fuck out of unsuspecting players.


ANyway... honest suggestions would be nice as I have some btc to make up now......  I'm not a retard but I can definately see PD builds you up and rips you down 10x harder.  Only ppl that stick around seem to be friends or low wagers.   Seen a few people with profit but they are probably affiliated with the site somehow......

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September 24, 2014, 10:42:56 AM
 #229

Does anybody have any recommendations for a legit dice site? Im sick of losing money... lost 1 btc to this shit site and im not losing anymore..... ppl are asswads on there too and the admins mute me for calling somebody a pussy when I get constantly harassed?  People try to act like ur friend but are just dickheads tryin to make you lose money in the end........  I have a feeling PD is a close knit group of friends that just scams the fuck out of unsuspecting players.


ANyway... honest suggestions would be nice as I have some btc to make up now......  I'm not a retard but I can definately see PD builds you up and rips you down 10x harder.  Only ppl that stick around seem to be friends or low wagers.   Seen a few people with profit but they are probably affiliated with the site somehow......

I've bet on PD before and my experience has been fine there. I agree with you that people try to act like your friend, but that's only because they want you to tip them. You can also verify that you haven't been cheated. If you don't like PD then try PRCdice.eu and dice ninja but DN isn't very user-friendly.

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September 29, 2014, 05:17:32 AM
 #230

I cannot provide any concrete proof, aside from this picture

http://i.imgur.com/En6GaaJ.png

and how this is not the only occurrence of this loss streak. A user MoFo on PD with an initial bet of less than 0.01 and doubling on each loss, he doubled his money all the way to over 5 bitcoins and lost that all on ~50/50 chance of a win which were around 10-15 losses.
So while this may just come from the randomness that hashes are, it can also be due to selective hashes on server-side.

I can't prove myself right 100%, but I don't think anyone can prove that it isn't happening.

First of all, I'd like to preface this by saying that PrimeDice has never manipulated a single roll. We are actually profiting below our expected profit thus far. You certainly bring up a reasonable argument and it is something I will absolutely discuss with our developer. However, I don't feel posting a screenshot of an 8 loss streak proves anything, millions of bets are being placed and the term "concrete" should not precede it.

Your other example with MoFo is also moot, he's placed thousands and thousands of bets and has wagered nearly 1000BTC

However, I understand the underlying point you are making and am open to the suggested changes. While we do have a provably fair system it appears it is not as provable as it could be.

This is an interesting concept, but it doesn't relate just to PD, more like to anyone.

I think PrimeDice are more vulnerable to this kind of accusation than either Just-Dice or CoinRoll, because PrimeDice changes the server seed before every roll, whereas CoinRoll only changes it once per day, and Just-Dice never changes it unless the player requests that it be changed.

Not that I think PrimeDice is cheating anyone; I don't.  It's just harder to verify that they aren't - you would have to make a note of each individual server seed, which probably nobody is going to be prepared to do.

The points expressed here and throughout the thread have been duly noted and will be discussed with our developer. We're launching a new version of primedice within the next two weeks and this will be brought to the table. I'm not an expert in provably fair or cryptography, however I am an honest and decent person and am willing to work with the community towards a fix.


It's also important to note that vulnerabilities exist even in a perfect "provably fair" system, even SD could manipulate results if they wanted to.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/

In many cases Provably fair is not enough. The author of that post mentioned he was working on provably fair II which is also something I'll be looking into implementing. November has my thanks for bringing this to my attention. If anyone has any concerns in the meantime, I suggest changing your client seed at the top of the betting page.

Best Regards,

Stunna




I have lost my 1BTC from your prime dice wallet. 0c694bcb897489615a5c013d0acfb71ddcf88a68a27b0281c7d7fbbc437df3d4 this is the transaction available in the transaction log. How do you explain this?
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September 29, 2014, 06:49:11 AM
 #231

Manipuation is a really unfair act.  I believe this pd can get money from every bet. Losing  a btc in PD is usual. You are unlucky enough. I suggest u to use small money if u cant afford to lose it. And bet smaller size. Just a suggestion

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September 29, 2014, 10:42:39 AM
 #232

its simple to me...fair if i win and unfair if i lost and unfortunately I always lose in this site no matter how much i deposit in here

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September 29, 2014, 11:38:41 AM
 #233

its simple to me...fair if i win and unfair if i lost and unfortunately I always lose in this site no matter how much i deposit in here
If your roll is not being manipulated by the casino operator it is fair.


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September 29, 2014, 09:43:43 PM
 #234

PD is definitely  a scam.  It wouldn't exist if it wasn't.......  I know for a fact the owners track peoples IP address to see how much you made off them, then they manipulate your rolls.  The 'seed change' is just there to make it look nice.

You don't know that for a fact. They can't manipulate your rolls without it being detectable. The provably fairness is there so that anyone who thinks they may have been cheated can determine whether or not they were cheated.

Provably isn't even a god damn word, its made up bullshit.....

Except it is. It means "in a manner capable of proof". ie. a site is provably fair if the rolls are generated in a manner that the site is able to prove is fair. It is the adverb from "provable", capable of proof:


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