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Author Topic: The recent price rise is really bad news for Bitcoin  (Read 1393 times)
Jet Cash
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December 07, 2017, 12:13:48 PM
 #1

I believe that the price increase is the result of the bankers and their controlling cartel deciding that they cannot stop Bitcoin, but they can make it unusable. They can do this by soaking up all the Bitcoin they can find, and not selling any of it. This has resulted in a dramatic price increase, and a rush by the unsophisticated to join the party, and make their fortune. In the meantime the cartel members are making huge profits on paper. At some point they will stop buying, and sell a few blocks of Bitcoin. This will trigger a rush to cash in profits, or to stop losses for people who bought Bitcoin when they couldn't afford it. The resulting crash will damage the reputation of Bitcoin amongst the average users, but leave a vast store of wealth for the financially aware. After a suitable interval, the cabal can re-enter the market and repeat the process. The newer futures trading platform will allow them to lock in profits from the rise, and suck money away from those who have bought contracts expecting the price to rise exponentially. The price will continue to rise until they have managed to open enough put options to trigger the drop.

Remember guys - Jet Cash warned you about the price movements first. Smiley

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December 07, 2017, 12:19:05 PM
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the only positive point in all this for the institutions is to sell the progress of bitcoin over a year, people will expect the same in 2018 and may fall from high

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December 07, 2017, 12:20:57 PM
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All's well with the OP's speculation, but since bitcoin quantity is limited, offer and demand come into play. They can't buy a lot, as they don't have what to buy. Also they can only buy with real money. Selling and crashing makes them loose money.

Time and time again i've heard this confusion: pump something and then destroy it to make money. But you first have to recoup your investment and that's not as simple as it sounds, with people holding bitcoin since it was under 1000 and presumably manipulating whales buying at 10000+
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December 07, 2017, 12:24:27 PM
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As whales can open the options to sell coins? It is also not profitable to roll rates. Now the exchange rate of bitcoin is high and therefore a very large demand. All they will sell will buy small users. In such circumstances, they can lose control of a large number of coins. It is not in their interests.

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December 07, 2017, 12:25:28 PM
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You do have a point there and with the constant price increase, it made some traders question also that the higher the increase more likely it'll bounce back to around $10k or so. The increase is scary and maybe a bad news for bitcoin but good news for those who invested in bitcoin.

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December 07, 2017, 12:28:02 PM
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i don't know, this seems more like a conspiracy theory that i would need a tin-foil-hat to read.

and i can't wrap my head around it either. for example why would someone buy bitcoin to cause its price to rise and make so many people so much rich just to sell and lose money and not even be able to damage that system!
even if it is true, and some group is behind it and they do dump, the worst case is that we will have some downtime and some drop. not the end of the world! and that group would gain nothing.

not to mention that worse case scenario that if we assume all you said here is true, is that bitcoin dies and other altcoins replace it. so that group (being bankers, government or what have you) would gain absolutely nothing but loses a huge amount of money!!!

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December 07, 2017, 12:33:26 PM
 #7

...  but since bitcoin quantity is limited, offer and demand come into play. They can't buy a lot, as they don't have what to buy. Also they can only buy with real money. Selling and crashing makes them loose money.

I like the above words.
Like me, I hold some BTC for years and do not even trade, just hold and watch BTC price waves.
... and I do not gonna sell soon. There are thousands like me, holding for years untouched.
So, supply is getting more and more limited.
If sharks and institutions wants to pump Bitcoin, they need a lot of fiat money to do so.
... and then what? cause panic? they gonna lose the majority used to pump.

Interesting times, interesting case, mean Bitcoin.
Since BTC is very volatile, fiat sharks gonna love futures and options based on BTC.
Pure speculation attracting "Wolfs from the Wall Street"  Cheesy  Grin

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December 07, 2017, 12:35:41 PM
 #8

I believe that the price increase is the result of the bankers and their controlling cartel deciding that they cannot stop Bitcoin, but they can make it unusable. They can do this by soaking up all the Bitcoin they can find, and not selling any of it. This has resulted in a dramatic price increase, and a rush by the unsophisticated to join the party, and make their fortune. In the meantime the cartel members are making huge profits on paper. At some point they will stop buying, and sell a few blocks of Bitcoin. This will trigger a rush to cash in profits, or to stop losses for people who bought Bitcoin when they couldn't afford it. The resulting crash will damage the reputation of Bitcoin amongst the average users, but leave a vast store of wealth for the financially aware. After a suitable interval, the cabal can re-enter the market and repeat the process. The newer futures trading platform will allow them to lock in profits from the rise, and suck money away from those who have bought contracts expecting the price to rise exponentially. The price will continue to rise until they have managed to open enough put options to trigger the drop.

Remember guys - Jet Cash warned you about the price movements first. Smiley


So essentially you think that volatility will damage the reputation of bitcoin haha. I don't think so. We don't know why the crazy rise of the past few days has happened. It may very well be from bankers buying up a ton in anticipation of the futures market. Though it's likely a mix of those who are long and those who are short, as they both understand that Bitcoin hitting Wall St next year means a huge rise. And besides after such a price rise I'm pretty sure everyone knows a serious correction is in order. I'd expect a correction back to $12k in the next few days. That won't damage Bitcoin, that just means that people will be buying it up in bulk for discounted prices and it however low it drops it won't take long for the price to come back up to where it was before the drop, which will  bring even more people into the game.
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December 07, 2017, 12:59:32 PM
 #9

The price rise is attributed to what's called a "Short Squeeze".

Due to the limited liquidity of BTC, the price rises and falls dramatically.

The Short Squeeze occurs when someone sells short at say $11k.  As the price rises to 12k - 13k , etc.  They encounter either a margin call or they cannot bear to watch the rise in their loss anymore.
Subsequently they are forced to cover, (which is buying) and then in turn participates in the rise in BTC price.

Same thing happens with stocks where liquidity is limited.

At some point no one will be daring enough to short due to their extensive losses, unless it is coordinated among large players.

But as a 'currency', I think Bitcoin has ruined that prospect.
Another more streamlined alternative will have to take the baton for that.

Bitcoin will remain a 'trading vehicle' and will likely reach $100k before the end of 2018.
Suitable for extreme high thrill gamblers.


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December 07, 2017, 01:58:13 PM
 #10

I believe that the price increase is the result of the bankers and their controlling cartel deciding that they cannot stop Bitcoin, but they can make it unusable. They can do this by soaking up all the Bitcoin they can find, and not selling any of it.

How many times have we seen this conspiracy theory already?

First there were the Banks, after that the Chinese, the Governments, the Fed,  we get a spike in the price, there is an evil organisation who is hoarding bitcoin.
So???
Let them hoard.
Limited supply, increase in price. I don't see a problem. They sell and then demand and offer kicks in and we see the real value.

And nobody is forcing you to sell when they do. On the contrary you can buy the dip and make more money.
The sheep will always panic when there is a red candle on the chart.
They will have to drive the price back to 250 to scare real hodlers.

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December 07, 2017, 02:38:13 PM
 #11

I believe that the price increase is the result of the bankers and their controlling cartel deciding that they cannot stop Bitcoin, but they can make it unusable. They can do this by soaking up all the Bitcoin they can find, and not selling any of it.

How many times have we seen this conspiracy theory already?

First there were the Banks, after that the Chinese, the Governments, the Fed,  we get a spike in the price, there is an evil organisation who is hoarding bitcoin.
So???
Let them hoard.
Limited supply, increase in price. I don't see a problem. They sell and then demand and offer kicks in and we see the real value.

And nobody is forcing you to sell when they do. On the contrary you can buy the dip and make more money.
The sheep will always panic when there is a red candle on the chart.
They will have to drive the price back to 250 to scare real hodlers.

Mostly, I agree. No one can actually control bitcoin. Even the government can't, no enough amount or revenue to affect the bitcoin market price as a general not unless all the government in the world decided to do this.
Another thing is that it's nonsense that they would manipulate it by dumping and buying because they will be be loosing their place when others starts to eat up during the dump. 

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December 07, 2017, 03:13:16 PM
 #12

I believe that the price increase is the result of the bankers and their controlling cartel deciding that they cannot stop Bitcoin, but they can make it unusable. They can do this by soaking up all the Bitcoin they can find, and not selling any of it.

How many times have we seen this conspiracy theory already?

First there were the Banks, after that the Chinese, the Governments, the Fed,  we get a spike in the price, there is an evil organisation who is hoarding bitcoin.
So???
Let them hoard.
Limited supply, increase in price. I don't see a problem. They sell and then demand and offer kicks in and we see the real value.

And nobody is forcing you to sell when they do. On the contrary you can buy the dip and make more money.
The sheep will always panic when there is a red candle on the chart.
They will have to drive the price back to 250 to scare real hodlers.

Mostly, I agree. No one can actually control bitcoin. Even the government can't, no enough amount or revenue to affect the bitcoin market price as a general not unless all the government in the world decided to do this.
Another thing is that it's nonsense that they would manipulate it by dumping and buying because they will be be loosing their place when others starts to eat up during the dump.  



Right every pump is going to add more people, more public money. So even if they have been buying up in order to dump it, and even if they plan to try to do that repeatedly, every time they do people are going to be pouncing on the dump. So even if they can continually crash it, it will be crashing upwards each time, getting higher and higher with every time they do this. Basically all this would do is create even more volatility in the market, but the upward rise would continue as they would have to keep buying in higher and higher as demand continues to surge and supply won't ever surge.
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December 07, 2017, 03:18:08 PM
 #13

Conspiracy theory in everything ...
Until recently, whales were not interested in such a small cryptology.
Now, with an explosive increase in the cost of bitcoin, they are just beginning to be interested in this market. You can not withdraw large amounts of money immediately from one market, which would lead to another. Yes, they do not want to withdraw, they create indirect instruments (futures).

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December 07, 2017, 03:21:16 PM
 #14

Yea, there are lots of big guns dumping massive amounts into Bitcoin now... The dump will be just as big and that is going to

leave some people with some financial problems IF they panic and sell at a loss. This is a good time to take some profits and

to put it to the side. {You are going to need that disposable fiat to buy, when the price drop} ... The big guns have money to

burn and they are using this to pump the Bitcoin price.... the fallout can be bad, IF people use debt to fund their Bitcoin

purchases now.  Roll Eyes

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December 07, 2017, 03:22:21 PM
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Another obituary post? Smiley

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December 07, 2017, 03:47:55 PM
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I believe that the price increase is the result of the bankers and their controlling cartel deciding that they cannot stop Bitcoin, but they can make it unusable. They can do this by soaking up all the Bitcoin they can find, and not selling any of it. This has resulted in a dramatic price increase, and a rush by the unsophisticated to join the party, and make their fortune. In the meantime the cartel members are making huge profits on paper. At some point they will stop buying, and sell a few blocks of Bitcoin. This will trigger a rush to cash in profits, or to stop losses for people who bought Bitcoin when they couldn't afford it. The resulting crash will damage the reputation of Bitcoin amongst the average users, but leave a vast store of wealth for the financially aware. After a suitable interval, the cabal can re-enter the market and repeat the process. The newer futures trading platform will allow them to lock in profits from the rise, and suck money away from those who have bought contracts expecting the price to rise exponentially. The price will continue to rise until they have managed to open enough put options to trigger the drop.

Remember guys - Jet Cash warned you about the price movements first. Smiley
I don't know, even if it's that conspiracy theory, the short squeeze manage to destroy bitcoin as a currency as nobody want to use something so volatile, but as a trading asset it doesn't matter. Even if they dump it and make the market crash, the demand will kick in for cheap bitcoin and we will rise again, even if it take longer.

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December 07, 2017, 03:51:13 PM
 #17

Thats an interesting theory, and TBH quite plausible. All the "big" banks, etc. who call for Bitcoin to be banned might be trying this method instead.

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December 07, 2017, 03:53:21 PM
 #18

I dont know guys. I dont think the banking industry even cares about bitcoin. Recently, my work put me in contact with the Head of Czech National Bank and naturaly I have asked about bitcoin. He did know what bitcoin is, but his knowledge was limited. He was of the opinion that its irrelevant and that it has no future in public finance. I know that Czech Republic is not the most economicaly strong country, but I think it might be similar else where.

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December 07, 2017, 04:00:51 PM
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I dont know guys. I dont think the banking industry even cares about bitcoin. Recently, my work put me in contact with the Head of Czech National Bank and naturaly I have asked about bitcoin. He did know what bitcoin is, but his knowledge was limited. He was of the opinion that its irrelevant and that it has no future in public finance. I know that Czech Republic is not the most economicaly strong country, but I think it might be similar else where.

The Banks want Cryptos dead, its direct competition to them. Why would you want to pay a 10$ for an international wire payment, when you could send some ___coin instead?

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December 07, 2017, 04:07:10 PM
 #20

There re some interesting views, and also I beleive there are some misconceptions.

This is not an obituary thread. I believe that Bitcoin has become a store of value, and has enormous potential in the long term. Right now, I think you should either buy for aholding of at least two years, or you buy because you are a day trader and you undrrstand the risks and skills involved in this. What alarms me are the people who are talking about selling their houses to buy Bitcoin, or to use their credit cards. If the price fails to increase, then they may be forced to sell their cons in an attempt to reduce their debts.

Bankers can manipulate the market for Bitcoin in the same way that they manipulate the gold, silver, stocks and bond markets, and derivatives make this a simple matter. Take the situation of shorting the market - this means selling Bitcoin for delivery in the future. There are two type of short - covered and uncovered. Uncovered means selling coins that you don't own in the hope that the price will drop, and if it goes up, you can face unlimited losses with a volatile product like Bitcoin. This is where the bear squeeze comes in. You have to go into the market and buy Bitcoin, but nobody wants to sell, so you are forced to offer increasing amounts to persuade somebody to sell you their coins as the price rockets up. Now we can consider covered shorts, and the role of bankers. You decide you want to crash Bitcoin to create instability. You print yourself a billion or so dollars, you can do this easily under the fractional reserve rules. You then start buying all the Bitcoin you can find. As the price continues to rocket up, you start to accumulate some massive profits. You then decide to crash the market. So you start to sell put options ( sales for the future), and you get paid for those. You've got the Bitcoin to cover these so you don't care what happens to the price. At worst you have to sell your coins and take the profit, plus the option fee, and the striking price will have been higher than the market price at the time. You've kept back a few coins, and now you sell those onto the market, and stop buying. This will cause a price drop, and if you have timed it correctly, it will trigger some stop loss selling, and the price tanks. A lot of people are going to get burned in this, and that will put them off Bitcoin, and also their friends. Now you exercise your options, and people have to find the money to buy your overpriced coins. Well you are a banker, so you can lend them the money of course, or maybe you take their house away from them. They can't afford to keep thse coins, so they have to sell them, and you can start to buy them with all the money you have made. The price starts to shoot up again, and of course there will be many who dive in as well as the bankers who are sucking more coins out of the market to increase future volatility.

Bitcoin and some of the other crypto-currencies pose an enormous threat to the control of the population. It is outside the control of the banks, and it doesn't include debt creation. Debt is slavery, and the last thing that governments want is to free their subjects from slavery.

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