Bitcoin Market 2 Testing

[dwdollar]

The new Bitcoin Market is up and it's full of bugs.  I'm not finished adding features, but I'd like to have more eyes looking over it from now on.  If you want to be a tester, contact me by PM, email (bitcoinmarket@gmail.com), or you can find someone who's already invited.  This is just a testing phase, so I will wipe the accounts when it's over (I might do this several times while testing).  You won't be able to fund your account yet, so don't send anything via LibertyReserve, Pecunix, or PayPal!  Your accounts won't reflect it.  However, they will have certain amounts of play money to trade on the market or send to someone.

I've chosen to use currency pairs without a processor.  So instead of "BTC/PayPalUSD" there is just "BTC/USD".  This allows USD to be funded through various processors which are currently only LibertyReserve, PayPal, and Mail for USD.  There are pros and cons to each method but I will save that for another post if anyone is curious.  Also, BitcoinMarket is considered to be it's own processor.  To create an automated order, select "BitcoinMarket" as the processor.  To create an escrow order, select the corresponding processor.  There will also be a way to manually accept escrow orders like ExchangeZone (one of the features I still need to add).

Ratings are pretty basic.  You may give a score of +1, 0, or -1 and a comment for any escrow trade that is finalized.  Ratings are viewable to everyone, and who rates who, is also viewable to everyone.

The site is currently at:  https://184.106.171.80/

[1714809999]

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[1714809999]

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[kiba]

I thought your site was a complete goner. Turns out that you're still alive and well, but not told us what progress you're making.

[fabianhjr]

Is this open source? If not could you give me an account so I can hunt the bugs and give you some feedback? From the quick look it looks really awesome and is a real competition to Mt Gox. One thing I would request is that you bring the
    * Top Orders
    * Recent Trades
    * Charts
to their own tabs on top. I would really like to have a fast way to access those with one single click.

If it is open source I could open a Mexican exchange.

[dwdollar]

Is this open source? If not could you give me an account so I can hunt the bugs and give you some feedback? From the quick look it looks really awesome and is a real competition to Mt Gox. One thing I would request is that you bring the
    * Top Orders
    * Recent Trades
    * Charts
to their own tabs on top. I would really like to have a fast way to access those with one single click.

If it is open source I could open a Mexican exchange.

It's not open source.  I'd like to make a little profit sometime in the future.   Trying to keep the tabs at a minimum, but those three are pretty important, I might tabify them.  Email me and I'll send an invitation (passwords are sent by email).

[kiba]

So, how do you ensure that the paypal scamming don't come back?

[dwdollar]

So, how do you ensure that the paypal scamming don't come back?

The first line of defense, is an invitation only membership.  Be mindful of who you invite.  If you invite two or three scammers in a week it's not going to be good for your membership.  Secondly, you will have to have a high enough rating and/or special approval for PayPal deposits.  Traders will also be able to use the rating system when making escrow trades for PayPal or any processor for that matter.  If it gets too bad, I'll shut PayPal down for awhile.  The scammers will be back.  But, we can make it difficult for them.

[davout]

Pooling hard and soft cash together is an interesting approach...

[fabianhjr]

Hey, when I fill an order shouldn't the confirmation page have all the info on the order so I can check it? xD

[fabianhjr]

Also there seems to be an issue since I filled a buy at market price order and there are like 2 asks with price and neither hit it.

[dwdollar]

Hey, when I fill an order shouldn't the confirmation page have all the info on the order so I can check it? xD

Yeah, it will have the details eventually.  That's a low priority at the moment.

[dwdollar]

Also there seems to be an issue since I filled a buy at market price order and there are like 2 asks with price and neither hit it.

Which ID's were they?  I see two market orders but they have different processors.  An order with a 'PayPal', 'LibertyReserve', or 'Pecunix' processor works similar to the traditional BCM market.  They can't be matched with an automated order which has 'BitcoinMarket' as the processor.

[fabianhjr]

2010-12-31 14:05:02 189.240.227.*    Succeeded
2010-12-31 11:18:24 189.181.71.*    Succeeded
2010-12-31 10:28:37 189.181.71.*    Succeeded
NaN-aN-aN aN:aN:aN 189.240.227.*    Failed
NaN-aN-aN aN:aN:aN 189.240.227.*    Failed

The timestamps are weird xD

Also, thats a negative, there are 2 BitcoinMarket orders with ID 3 and 5. Mine is 10. You should check that out please.

[dwdollar]

2010-12-31 14:05:02 189.240.227.*    Succeeded
2010-12-31 11:18:24 189.181.71.*    Succeeded
2010-12-31 10:28:37 189.181.71.*    Succeeded
NaN-aN-aN aN:aN:aN 189.240.227.*    Failed
NaN-aN-aN aN:aN:aN 189.240.227.*    Failed

The timestamps are weird xD

Also, thats a negative, there are 2 BitcoinMarket orders with ID 3 and 5. Mine is 10. You should check that out please.

The times should be working for failed logins now.  I see what you're saying about the market too.  I'll look at that next.

[Anonymous]

The new site looks really nice.  

I wouldnt mind an invite 

[fabianhjr]

It is indeed nice. Though, still need to hunt all those bugs down.

[dwdollar]

The new site looks really nice.  

I wouldnt mind an invite 

Anyone is welcome to join.  Just send me your email address.

[dwdollar]

The market orders may be functioning correctly now.  However, when matching two market orders, there needs to be at least one previous trade (to determine the price) for any currency pair + processor combo.  This "bootstrap trade" is created from two limit orders or one limit and one market order.

[nanotube]

The market orders may be functioning correctly now.  However, when matching two market orders, there needs to be at least one previous trade (to determine the price) for any currency pair + processor combo.  This "bootstrap trade" is created from two limit orders or one limit and one market order.

you know, i'm not so sure having 'market orders' is such a great idea at all, given the relatively low volume in the markets, especially in some currencies (e.g., gau). it introduces extra complexity for you, and extra uncertainty for the participants. if someone wants to buy at current market price, just put in a limit order with a sufficiently high limit price.

[dwdollar]

The market orders may be functioning correctly now.  However, when matching two market orders, there needs to be at least one previous trade (to determine the price) for any currency pair + processor combo.  This "bootstrap trade" is created from two limit orders or one limit and one market order.

you know, i'm not so sure having 'market orders' is such a great idea at all, given the relatively low volume in the markets, especially in some currencies (e.g., gau). it introduces extra complexity for you, and extra uncertainty for the participants. if someone wants to buy at current market price, just put in a limit order with a sufficiently high limit price.

Market orders are tricky.  The limit back orders need to be sufficient enough to insure a fair price.  I think they can get there eventually.  When it goes live, I could disable market orders until the limits start piling up.  I forgot to mention that market orders will be given preference before limits.  With trade bots, this could be advantageous, since they will be functioning at high speeds.

[jimbobway]

So, how do you ensure that the paypal scamming don't come back?

The first line of defense, is an invitation only membership.  Be mindful of who you invite.  If you invite two or three scammers in a week it's not going to be good for your membership.  Secondly, you will have to have a high enough rating and/or special approval for PayPal deposits.  Traders will also be able to use the rating system when making escrow trades for PayPal or any processor for that matter.  If it gets too bad, I'll shut PayPal down for awhile.  The scammers will be back.  But, we can make it difficult for them.

I've been thinking about this a lot.  I if I was a scammer I would register a user1.  Using that user1 name I would invite another user2 (which would be fake).  I would use user2 to invite user3 (another fake account).  Then use user3 to invite fake user4 and so on.

So my point is this...if you catch scammer user4 then you have to ban the entire tree of users down to user1.  So anyone underneath user4 would be banned including user1, user2, user3, and user4.  I think this is the safest way to allow PayPal.  Can you do this?

[nanotube]

So, how do you ensure that the paypal scamming don't come back?

The first line of defense, is an invitation only membership.  Be mindful of who you invite.  If you invite two or three scammers in a week it's not going to be good for your membership.  Secondly, you will have to have a high enough rating and/or special approval for PayPal deposits.  Traders will also be able to use the rating system when making escrow trades for PayPal or any processor for that matter.  If it gets too bad, I'll shut PayPal down for awhile.  The scammers will be back.  But, we can make it difficult for them.

I've been thinking about this a lot.  I if I was a scammer I would register a user1.  Using that user1 name I would invite another user2 (which would be fake).  I would use user2 to invite user3 (another fake account).  Then use user3 to invite fake user4 and so on.

in addition to invitation, it would take explicit approval to use paypal - i.e., personal reputation with dwdollar, or the vouching of other high-reputation people. so just inviting a bunch of fake users won't grant you paypal access.

[fabianhjr]

A better measure would be to allow PP globally and ask for a 14 day maturing fee. You would get onsite credits. The best part is that you can still sell Bitcoins and get USDs quickly. This could help adoption.

[dwdollar]

So my point is this...if you catch scammer user4 then you have to ban the entire tree of users down to user1.  So anyone underneath user4 would be banned including user1, user2, user3, and user4.  I think this is the safest way to allow PayPal.  Can you do this?

Yes, that is the idea.  Walk up the trunk by suspending/banning until the scamming stops.  As Nanotube mentioned, this will be just one tool for using PayPal.  The others will be rating, time, and maybe manual approval.  I understand the frustration of making it too hard to use PayPal.  We'll try to strike a balance.

[nanotube]

So my point is this...if you catch scammer user4 then you have to ban the entire tree of users down to user1.  So anyone underneath user4 would be banned including user1, user2, user3, and user4.  I think this is the safest way to allow PayPal.  Can you do this?

Yes, that is the idea.  Walk up the trunk by suspending/banning until the scamming stops.  As Nanotube mentioned, this will be just one tool for using PayPal.  The others will be rating, time, and maybe manual approval.  I understand the frustration of making it too hard to use PayPal.  We'll try to strike a balance.

i think taking it slow rather than fast is not a bad idea. also, consider requiring verified paypal accounts, and doing email confirmation for the primary email listed on the paypal account, as extra steps to avoid fraud. also, daily paypal spending limits for users just starting without much of a reputation, is probably a good idea as well.

that said... starting with a core of known and trusted users... you already can easily have dozens of approved paypal users to start with, and go from there.
just throwing out some ideas.

[jimbobway]

So my point is this...if you catch scammer user4 then you have to ban the entire tree of users down to user1.  So anyone underneath user4 would be banned including user1, user2, user3, and user4.  I think this is the safest way to allow PayPal.  Can you do this?

Yes, that is the idea.  Walk up the trunk by suspending/banning until the scamming stops.  As Nanotube mentioned, this will be just one tool for using PayPal.  The others will be rating, time, and maybe manual approval.  I understand the frustration of making it too hard to use PayPal.  We'll try to strike a balance.

i think taking it slow rather than fast is not a bad idea. also, consider requiring verified paypal accounts, and doing email confirmation for the primary email listed on the paypal account, as extra steps to avoid fraud. also, daily paypal spending limits for users just starting without much of a reputation, is probably a good idea as well.

that said... starting with a core of known and trusted users... you already can easily have dozens of approved paypal users to start with, and go from there.
just throwing out some ideas.

One thing that bugs me is that scammers work by stealing other people's paypal username and password.  They could steal the credentials of a member who has a good rating.  This is very hard to stop/detect.  One way a lot of companies do to protect users from this is to have a RSA keyfob. Maybe you can look into this.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecurID

[Anonymous]

I second the idea of a keyfob. My bank uses one and generates a different password with it each time I log in.

[idev]

Loving the new design, congrats sir 

[Babylon]

I don't understand the site.

I registered my processors for paypal and bitcoin, looks like I can deposit and withdraw (only not really of course since it is not real bitcoins or dollars)  but I cannot find how to trade.

[dwdollar]

I don't understand the site.

I registered my processors for paypal and bitcoin, looks like I can deposit and withdraw (only not really of course since it is not real bitcoins or dollars)  but I cannot find how to trade.

You have to create an order.  Select the 'My Orders' tab and click 'Open New Order'.  Here is an explanation for the currency pairs the new site will use.  The old site's 'PayPalUSD' will become BMBTC/PPUSD on the new site.  Currency pairs are the norm for traditional currency trading and it's drifting that way in the Bitcoin community I think.

[Babylon]

I don't understand the site.

I registered my processors for paypal and bitcoin, looks like I can deposit and withdraw (only not really of course since it is not real bitcoins or dollars)  but I cannot find how to trade.

You have to create an order.  Select the 'My Orders' tab and click 'Open New Order'.  Here is an explanation for the currency pairs the new site will use.  The old site's 'PayPalUSD' will become BMBTC/PPUSD on the new site.  Currency pairs are the norm for traditional currency trading and it's drifting that way in the Bitcoin community I think.

ok, I just didn't see the button.

The way the simple orders work seems wrong to me.  it does make it easy to buy or sell bitcoin, but without being able to set a price on the simple order I feel like I lose the function I use the most.  Having to dig into the complex trade in order to set a price seems like a bad setup, to me.

stop orders don't seem to be working, although I may just be misunderstanding how they work.

[dwdollar]

I don't understand the site.

I registered my processors for paypal and bitcoin, looks like I can deposit and withdraw (only not really of course since it is not real bitcoins or dollars)  but I cannot find how to trade.

You have to create an order.  Select the 'My Orders' tab and click 'Open New Order'.  Here is an explanation for the currency pairs the new site will use.  The old site's 'PayPalUSD' will become BMBTC/PPUSD on the new site.  Currency pairs are the norm for traditional currency trading and it's drifting that way in the Bitcoin community I think.

ok, I just didn't see the button.

The way the simple orders work seems wrong to me.  it does make it easy to buy or sell bitcoin, but without being able to set a price on the simple order I feel like I lose the function I use the most.  Having to dig into the complex trade in order to set a price seems like a bad setup, to me.

stop orders don't seem to be working, although I may just be misunderstanding how they work.

The simple order form is just a start.  I can add a price.  If you have anymore suggestions for it let me know.  What exactly was wrong with the Stop Orders?  Market and Stop Orders might be confusing until the liquidity builds up.  Limits and Stop Limits should behave better.

[dwdollar]

I'll try to have the stream and API finished by this weekend, plus some fixes.

[Babylon]

I don't understand the site.

I registered my processors for paypal and bitcoin, looks like I can deposit and withdraw (only not really of course since it is not real bitcoins or dollars)  but I cannot find how to trade.

You have to create an order.  Select the 'My Orders' tab and click 'Open New Order'.  Here is an explanation for the currency pairs the new site will use.  The old site's 'PayPalUSD' will become BMBTC/PPUSD on the new site.  Currency pairs are the norm for traditional currency trading and it's drifting that way in the Bitcoin community I think.

ok, I just didn't see the button.

The way the simple orders work seems wrong to me.  it does make it easy to buy or sell bitcoin, but without being able to set a price on the simple order I feel like I lose the function I use the most.  Having to dig into the complex trade in order to set a price seems like a bad setup, to me.

stop orders don't seem to be working, although I may just be misunderstanding how they work.

The simple order form is just a start.  I can add a price.  If you have anymore suggestions for it let me know.  What exactly was wrong with the Stop Orders?  Market and Stop Orders might be confusing until the liquidity builds up.  Limits and Stop Limits should behave better.

The stop orders did not go through.

My understanding of a stop order is that it waits for the market price to reach the stop price and then executes as a market trade.  I set several limit orders at the stop price, as well as a stop order at the stop price and neither of my stop orders went through.

[dwdollar]

The stop orders did not go through.

My understanding of a stop order is that it waits for the market price to reach the stop price and then executes as a market trade.  I set several limit orders at the stop price, as well as a stop order at the stop price and neither of my stop orders went through.

That's correct.  I'll look at it tonight and see what the problem is.

[dwdollar]

I'm opening it up to real trade.  BMBTC/BMUSD and BMBTC/BMGAU are the currency pairs.  These pairs are automated.  Funding for USD is restricted to LibertyReserve for now.  Funding for GAU is restricted to Pecunix.  Deposits and withdraws for both LibertyReserve and Pecunix are automated.

I didn't see any problems with the Stop Orders/Stop Limit Orders.  Both use the last trade price and not a limit price from a Bid/Ask in order to execute.  Maybe the confusion is coming from this?  This prevents some one from opening an order with the sole intent of 'unlocking' all of the Stop Orders//Stop Limit Orders.

I'm putting the API on the back burner, but the stream is up and should be running.

The following fees apply.  I'll post these on the site.  .5% per trade for all currencies.  1.0% for BTC withdraws, 2.0% for LibertyRerserve withdraws, 2.0% for Pecunix withdraws.

I'll be watching everything carefully for any problems.

If everything goes well, I'll open it up to escrow trades in a week.  This will include the PayPal type trading people are familiar with on the old site.

[SmokeTooMuch]

So, BitcoinMarket v2 is open for public now ?
Is there a domain name already ?

Or is it still in "testing mode" ?

[SmokeTooMuch]

There seems to be a problem with the timestamps:

[SmokeTooMuch]

Ok, the timestamp thing still isn't fixed.

Also, I had 500 Bitcoins in my account and when I wanted to withdraw them it said "insufficient funds".
I could only withdraw 499 Bitcoins. I guess this is a bug ?
EDIT: oh wait, it didn't withdraw anything at all.
Something seems seriously broken there.
EDIT2: ok, i got my 499 BTC now.
EDIT3: shame on me, didn't know there was a withdrawal fee.
but still no comments to the timestamp thing ?
it appears when I am logged in only. without login the timestamp is shown correctly. any ideas ?

[genjix]

Source code for Britcoin: http://gitorious.org/intersango/master/trees/master

[luv2drnkbr]

If I were to get an invite, can I deposit via Moneybookers?