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Author Topic: Why Bitcoin Fails as Currency of the Future  (Read 4173 times)
Duffman
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July 03, 2011, 10:25:42 AM
 #21

Bitcoin doesn't have intrinsic value, but then, neither does USD (or gold, for that matter)
gold is a good semiconductor, it does have intrinsic value.

barter is inefficient because it requires double coincidence of wants.  in your post I didn't see anything about the future and why bitcoins aren't a match.  link the two better.
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July 03, 2011, 10:29:15 AM
 #22

Bitcoin doesn't have intrinsic value, but then, neither does USD (or gold, for that matter)
gold is a good semiconductor, it does have intrinsic value.

barter is inefficient because it requires double coincidence of wants.  in your post I didn't see anything about the future and why bitcoins aren't a match.  link the two better.

So gold can facilitate electron flow, if that counts as intrinsic value then something that can facilitate trade flow counts too, unless electrons are somehow more valuable than trade.

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Duffman
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July 03, 2011, 10:43:58 AM
 #23

So gold can facilitate electron flow, if that counts as intrinsic value then something that can facilitate trade flow counts too, unless electrons are somehow more valuable than trade.
no, not necessarily.  do you know what intrinsic means?
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July 03, 2011, 12:00:44 PM
 #24

First of all, there is no such thing as intrinsic value. Value is merely how much people want something. It is subjective. If bitcoin has no 'intrinsic' value, than neither does gold. Gold is not backed by anything. But why is gold valuable? Because people want it. Why do they want it? Because it is safe from sudden increases in supply that lower it's price. It is a store of value.

In the same way: bitcoin is not backed by anything. But why is it valuable? Because people want it. Why do they want it? Because it is safe from sudden and rapid increases in supply, and it works well as a medium of exchange in online transactions and general trade.

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Duffman
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July 03, 2011, 12:13:33 PM
 #25

First of all, there is no such thing as intrinsic value. Value is merely how much people want something. It is subjective. If bitcoin has no 'intrinsic' value, than neither does gold.
we can use gold for our technology.  bitcoin can have no intrinsic value because it is not natural.
Gold is not backed by anything. But why is gold valuable? Because people want it. Why do they want it? Because it is safe from sudden increases in supply that lower it's price. It is a store of value.

In the same way: bitcoin is not backed by anything. But why is it valuable? Because people want it. Why do they want it? Because it is safe from sudden and rapid increases in supply, and it works well as a medium of exchange in online transactions and general trade.
this is extrinsic 'value' or w/e you wanna call it.
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July 03, 2011, 01:35:43 PM
 #26

Any tangible commoditiy has intrinsic value. Any non-tangible asset has not.

The intrinsic value of tangible commodity may lay in the eye of the beholder but it'll never drop to zero.

Unfortunately a 1/1000 of an ounce of gold cannot be wired around the globe in just a few seconds for nearly nothing in transaction fees. So Bitcoin might be helpful till we get there with gold/silver Wink

 

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July 03, 2011, 02:07:14 PM
 #27

The ones with greater amounts of x and x only.
Not true. Yes someone with more x will have a greater advantage, but it will always the middle class that sets the default. A mechanic can't just wait for a super rich guy to drop in. How often do you see a super rich guy in the place you live, just walking into a super marked and buying the whole loot?


But, if there's no global currency, then the mechanic is going to have to be much more thoughtful in what he could accept as payment that would be of value to him.
Not true at all, someone selling a local service will always have to adjust to the local conditions.


Global currencies create classes of social rank, and with it, greed.
Unlike how local currency works today?

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July 03, 2011, 04:48:41 PM
 #28

First of all, there is no such thing as intrinsic value. Value is merely how much people want something. It is subjective. If bitcoin has no 'intrinsic' value, than neither does gold.
we can use gold for our technology.  bitcoin can have no intrinsic value because it is not natural.
Gold is not backed by anything. But why is gold valuable? Because people want it. Why do they want it? Because it is safe from sudden increases in supply that lower it's price. It is a store of value.

In the same way: bitcoin is not backed by anything. But why is it valuable? Because people want it. Why do they want it? Because it is safe from sudden and rapid increases in supply, and it works well as a medium of exchange in online transactions and general trade.
this is extrinsic 'value' or w/e you wanna call it.

If people value something, it has value; if people do not value something, it does not have value; and there is no intrinsic about it.

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Title12USC§411
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July 03, 2011, 05:08:30 PM
 #29

Max Keiser on RT has been promoting BTC recently on his "Keiser Report".

Check out the last couple of episodes at http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/ particularly the very last part of E-160 where Max mentions encryption with respect to intrinsic value and Episode 151
­Every week Max Keiser looks at all the scandal behind the financial news headlines. This week Max Keiser and co-host, Stacy Herbert, report on the oil traders puking on markets and the gold confiscators eyeing Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy. In the second half of the show, Max talks to former chief forex trader for VISA, Jon Matonis of TheMonetary Future.blogspot.com, about Bitcoin, the new...
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July 03, 2011, 05:36:53 PM
 #30

If people value something, it has value; if people do not value something, it does not have value; and there is no intrinsic about it.
if it gets its value off its intrinsic characteristics, then?  how I hate semantics.
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July 03, 2011, 05:56:41 PM
 #31

Also Peter Schiff recently did an interview on BTCs so Schiff is chewing on intrinsic value too.
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July 03, 2011, 06:10:23 PM
 #32

Also Peter Schiff recently did an interview on BTCs so Schiff is chewing on intrinsic value too.
I can't believe a devout Austrian such as Schiff would use the 'intrinsic value' fallacy. There is no such thing as intrinsic value. Value is subjective. This is a tenet of Austrian economics.

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July 03, 2011, 06:33:11 PM
 #33

So gold can facilitate electron flow, if that counts as intrinsic value then something that can facilitate trade flow counts too, unless electrons are somehow more valuable than trade.
no, not necessarily.  do you know what intrinsic means?

Of course not.

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lijji
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July 03, 2011, 06:49:26 PM
 #34

I think bitcoin has a very good chance of becoming at the least the prefered currancy of the internet. 

Every day i see more and more people posting new projects to help stream line use for the average user.   
Uekiya
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July 03, 2011, 06:51:58 PM
 #35

My conclusion-
It is my conclusion that you ought to read a bit more about monetary theory before drawing conclusions.

This also seems like a way of escaping the "poor will stay poor, rich will stay rich" problem.
Wow.  You actually advocate currency market manipulation as a means of wealth distribution.  You should work for the Fed.  Or at least run for Congress.
arnoldrimmer
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July 03, 2011, 07:37:57 PM
 #36

I think the Idea behind Bitcoins has a Future!
Deaddy
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July 03, 2011, 07:58:39 PM
 #37

I don't care if bitcoins fail as currency of the future. If someone on the internet needs something coded or configured, I no longer have to give them my banking data so they can send me money, but I can just let them send me a few bitcoins and after a few seconds when the transaction shows up I can start working. If I had to give them my banking data, I probably wouldn't do it (except it would be a bigger contract). Or if someone saves me a lot of trouble, I can just tip them, or get tipped in the rare event I am helpful.
So in my case it's an win-win-situation for bitcoin-participants, and it doesn't even matter, how much acceptance bitcoin has, as long there is some acceptance. Even if there wasn't any monetary value, it still fulfills the same need as facebooks like-buttons, just without giving your data to evil companies.

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the joint
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July 03, 2011, 08:28:10 PM
 #38

The ones with greater amounts of x and x only.
Not true. Yes someone with more x will have a greater advantage, but it will always the middle class that sets the default. A mechanic can't just wait for a super rich guy to drop in. How often do you see a super rich guy in the place you live, just walking into a super marked and buying the whole loot?


But, if there's no global currency, then the mechanic is going to have to be much more thoughtful in what he could accept as payment that would be of value to him.
Not true at all, someone selling a local service will always have to adjust to the local conditions.


Global currencies create classes of social rank, and with it, greed.
Unlike how local currency works today?


Having a greater advantage with x is a part of what I'm talking about.  If a community did not accept x as a currency (or local currencies -- I believe they have similar problems), then yes, the mechanic would be forced to adjust to the local conditions.  He could, for example, exchange car repairs for part-time labor, food, other resources, building materials, tools, etc.  This would be apply to other circumstances as well, such as poorer patients that cannot afford medical operations with x but can offer other possessions, time, resources, etc.  The lack of a global/local currency would force businesses to re-prioritize, emphasizing importance on social relationships rather than monetary gain.  If people agree x has value, and this is globally accepted, then everyone will strive to obtain x.  The value a customer receives from having his car fixed is no longer enough because he lost x which, after all, is what is agreed upon as the standard of value.  Remove x and there is a more direct relationship between work and product value.  Keep x and no matter what value one receives from any interaction, I think his mind will always return to the lure of x...

the joint
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July 03, 2011, 08:33:16 PM
 #39

Bitcoin doesn't have intrinsic value, but then, neither does USD (or gold, for that matter)
gold is a good semiconductor, it does have intrinsic value.

barter is inefficient because it requires double coincidence of wants.  in your post I didn't see anything about the future and why bitcoins aren't a match.  link the two better.

So gold can facilitate electron flow, if that counts as intrinsic value then something that can facilitate trade flow counts too, unless electrons are somehow more valuable than trade.

Utility increases in direct correlation with increases in intrinsic value.  If gold was suddenly able to facilitate electron flow faster, this would not be more beneficial to gold.  Furthermore, quantitative/qualitative value does not increase in direct correlation with monetary gain.  It tapers off.

the joint
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July 03, 2011, 08:38:52 PM
 #40

The intrinsic value is energy ("credits").

The face of the dollar is paper.

The face of the bitcoin is either coin ("metal") or hydrogen economy ("energy").

Energy + metallic catalyst works efficiently with fuel cells.

Law of Thermodynamics - Energy converts from useable to non-useable configurations.  The intrinsic value is not energy.  Dig a hole in your backyard and see how energetic and useful the hole is.  Or, before you dig the hole, convert the energy into direct value (look how many holes I dug!  I'll trade them for your car).

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