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Author Topic: As Promised: HEADS UP! Miners' Coin Coming!  (Read 3145 times)
Vlad2Vlad
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July 13, 2013, 12:08:23 AM
 #21

You keep begging third party devs( mainly junk coin developers) to build your coin for you,

what is the realistic longevity for this coin?

Hire them on full time or just contract basis for each update?

Which developer did you end up going with?



Begging?

When you pay someone to do something it's not begging.

When you go to a restaurant and order a steak and then pay for it would you like it if some guy outside told people you were in there begging for food?  Hardly!

These are not junk developers.  They have experience launching other coins and they're actually the most expensive here.  I could have gone with the cheaper guys but I thought I'd get more from going with someone with integrity and experience.

The longevity depends on the adoption rate and if people like what the coin offers.  I'm looking at it long term, for years to come of the govt allows it that long.

When you say hey I sent you pm's answer me, hey who else can do it, hey help me build this. I don't have a job, you charge too much. I consider that begging. Your example is completely irrelevant and baseless.

My rationale is that if you yourself are unable to do anything, and require third party resources to develop, how do you get from alpha to beta to release etc. I am assuming you are contracting out the initial job but it will be most beneficial to have the OG dev on-board to continue development. Are they on-board as well and are committed to long-term development?

Your attitude makes me especially not want anything to do with this.

Who's developing Bitcoin, Satoshi?

The community.  Or do you expect a dev to get 1% and then spend 16 hours per day here, pay a programmer and work for free or on 1% of nothing.

You guys are joking. 

And trying to find the best deal is not begging when you're on a limited budget.  And not getting responses from 2 guys doing this for a living for 3 days is not normal so asking why, respond to my emails is not exactly strange.

If this isn't the coin for you then choose another, there's plenty more where the devs are making tons of money yet nobody seems to complain over there.

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July 13, 2013, 12:15:26 AM
 #22

Cryptocurrencies aren't supposed to be a get-rich-quick scheme for miners. Miners exist to secure the blockchain for the currency. Getting that backwards does not sound like a good idea.

Yes Yes CC are get rich quick scheme thats there main attraction to many.....

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July 13, 2013, 12:20:07 AM
 #23

I'm interested in more information about your VBG or whatever, but a few things first

1) Having a premine without set bounties accouting for 100% of the premine is going to garner negative attention, which is going to make you seem greedy and your coin look like a pump and dump, which you obviously want to avoid
2) Having a % go to a communal wallet, or to anywhere else for that matter causes the entire idea of a decentralized currency to become centralized, ruining the whole point of cryptocurrency
3) Having 1% go directly to you will also be seen as greedy. People want to mine for themselves, not for you. If you want 1% of what is mined, then run your own pool and charge 1%

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July 13, 2013, 12:22:27 AM
 #24

when its up I will run a giveaway for you if you provide the coins  Smiley

I would also suggest posting the ann on www.altcointalk.co.uk

I won't have any coins since there's no premine.  It seems like people are agent even the 10% premine which would then go right back to the miners.  Sad, many miners could benefit.

giveaways are always good for a coins image  Smiley never mind I will have to buy some of the first miners

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July 13, 2013, 12:29:27 AM
 #25

And why is 1% funny?  You think devs work for free?  Most take much more than 1% via many clever schemes.

At least I'm being forward.

Here's the problem thought regarding the 10% set aside for the miners.

I talked to the programmer and he's saying it can't be set aside in a special wallet, at least not in an easy affordable way.
That last part is easy, just make every new block generated generate new coins to some fixed address. Not that I think that's a good idea at all.

A decentralized cryptocurrency is a protocol, not so much a product. Can you imagine if the inventor of the file transfer protocol specified in the standards that when he connects to a server, it should allocate more bandwidth to him? I could see someone doing that with a specific ftp server they release, but shoehorning centralization into a protocol means you've lost the most revolutionary thing about bitcoin there.

How are you going to even create so much as a shallow illusion of an ability to tell who is small and who is large, let alone actually tell?

-MarkM-


The VGB does that automatically and without a flaw.
I can't imagine any way to do that which wouldn't be trivial to subvert.
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July 13, 2013, 01:01:14 AM
 #26

I'm interested in more information about your VBG or whatever, but a few things first

1) Having a premine without set bounties accouting for 100% of the premine is going to garner negative attention, which is going to make you seem greedy and your coin look like a pump and dump, which you obviously want to avoid
2) Having a % go to a communal wallet, or to anywhere else for that matter causes the entire idea of a decentralized currency to become centralized, ruining the whole point of cryptocurrency
3) Having 1% go directly to you will also be seen as greedy. People want to mine for themselves, not for you. If you want 1% of what is mined, then run your own pool and charge 1%

Excuse me but how in the world do devs get paid?  I don't want some sneaky scheme to get paid.  I can't believe 1% is actually even a discussion.  It's crap.  Only it the coin takes off will it be worth anything and if that happens it means I ran a successful coin and then I would deserve it much like a CEO who runs a successful company so I really don't get the issue with 1%, it's chicken feed compared to most coins out there who pay out way more to their devs and founders.

Why do I have to run a scheme, why can't I say 1%, and be it 1% with no strings attached?  All founders, all devs get premined coins or some special payouts and I purposely chose 1% because it's lower than anything I've ever seen or heard of any dev get, yet I'm dumbfounded to see so many haters hate on a paltry 1% when many devs get so much more and nobody complains and here I am trying to build a coin which benefits the miners more than anyone else and I see nothing but hate.

No wonder nobody has ever bothered to do something for the community, for the miners, most of you want a better coin but you want to see the guy who thought of it and made it a reality to be living under a bridge.  How tragic!

Next:  the premine of 10% would be to give back to miners so why would I lie and say it's for bounties, etc.?  I don't want to BS about anything, I want to totally honest about everything and bounties will have to come from the community and in part from myself as well, just like they do with all other successful all coin.

But there has to be a viable way to do this right besides making me do all this for free, that's absurd.  And since I'm doing this coin for miners I want them to get that 10% to help them get to the next level, by buying better rigs - something that might otherwise take them years to do.  But if you miners want me to designate 5% or 10% for development and bounties and account for every coin so there's no funny business then that's fine but I think miners should get this 10% as a payout but I'll do it any way you guys want as long as it's what most of you want. 

Just like I badly anted SHA256 but switched to Scrypt cause that's what you guys wanted.

I'm willing to do it anyway possible - I have no ulterior motives so anything you guys can think of I will implement but don't expect me to do all this for less than 1% cause that's the lowest any dev had ever been paid.  I'll take it even one step further if needed, I would even put that 10% in an escrow account.  I would even put it in a wallet belonging to someone chosen by miners from this board.  I can't believe there is no way such a seemingly simple issue when there is so much benefit for the miners - that's just not possible.

And if necessary I'll even abandon the 10% idea (like I gave up on SHA256, CatholicCoin, OrphanCoin, etc.,) but I would really like to keep it (the 10%), if there's any possible and fair way, as it would really help a lot of the smaller miners get ahead while also including the large miners as well.

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Vlad2Vlad
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July 13, 2013, 01:07:57 AM
 #27

And why is 1% funny?  You think devs work for free?  Most take much more than 1% via many clever schemes.

At least I'm being forward.

Here's the problem thought regarding the 10% set aside for the miners.

I talked to the programmer and he's saying it can't be set aside in a special wallet, at least not in an easy affordable way.
That last part is easy, just make every new block generated generate new coins to some fixed address. Not that I think that's a good idea at all.

A decentralized cryptocurrency is a protocol, not so much a product. Can you imagine if the inventor of the file transfer protocol specified in the standards that when he connects to a server, it should allocate more bandwidth to him? I could see someone doing that with a specific ftp server they release, but shoehorning centralization into a protocol means you've lost the most revolutionary thing about bitcoin there.

How are you going to even create so much as a shallow illusion of an ability to tell who is small and who is large, let alone actually tell?

-MarkM-


The VGB does that automatically and without a flaw.
I can't imagine any way to do that which wouldn't be trivial to subvert.

There is no way around, over, under, to subvert or to abuse the VGB Protocol and it benefits everyone but especially the smaller miners which is the majority.

That's why I want to launch this coin.  I can't believe I'm having such a hard time doing something good for this alt community. 

So many people get hung up on such small things which can be worked out like 1% layout for me which is less than any dev I've ever seen or the 10% which can be worked out something or even banned if that's what people want.

This coin could be such a nice coin for all miners but especially the small miners and yet I see nothing but combative individuals splitting hairs.  So odd.  So sad.  Such a loss to themselves. 

But thanks for your input - you sound like a programmer or at least self educated. If I knew how to program I'd launch this thing myself and I have no doubt people would love the idea once they saw the benefits themselves. 

No more dead flatlined coins, no more boring mining, no more hopeless mining just cause you have a smaller rig. 

This is so unreal and so frustrating I'm ready to just quit this idea which is tragic cause I truly wanted to do it for small miners such as myself and big miners would also benefit as well.

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July 13, 2013, 01:10:54 AM
 #28

I'm interested in more information about your VBG or whatever, but a few things first

1) Having a premine without set bounties accouting for 100% of the premine is going to garner negative attention, which is going to make you seem greedy and your coin look like a pump and dump, which you obviously want to avoid
2) Having a % go to a communal wallet, or to anywhere else for that matter causes the entire idea of a decentralized currency to become centralized, ruining the whole point of cryptocurrency
3) Having 1% go directly to you will also be seen as greedy. People want to mine for themselves, not for you. If you want 1% of what is mined, then run your own pool and charge 1%

Excuse me but how in the world do devs get paid?  I don't want some sneaky scheme to get paid.  I can't believe 1% is actually even a discussion.  It's crap.  Only it the coin takes off will it be worth anything and if that happens it means I ran a successful coin and then I would deserve it much like a CEO who runs a successful company so I really don't get the issue with 1%, it's chicken feed compared to most coins out there who pay out way more to their devs and founders.

Why do I have to run a scheme, why can't I say 1%, and be it 1% with no strings attached?  All founders, all devs get premined coins or some special payouts and I purposely chose 1% because it's lower than anything I've ever seen or heard of any dev get, yet I'm dumbfounded to see so many haters hate on a paltry 1% when many devs get so much more and nobody complains and here I am trying to build a coin which benefits the miners more than anyone else and I see nothing but hate.
...
You're on a forum for a cryptocurrency which was revolutionary in that it was decentralized. If you don't understand the value of decentralization that's placed here, I think you fundamentally misunderstand why bitcoin is significant. It's not just the online part. Also, if it's a centralized currency that requires trust in you, why even do mining at all? You could just operate nodes which sign all transactions. Mining is only required for decentralized trust-free timestamping. Mining is only a worthless system of charity in a centralized system.

Quote from: Vlad2Vlad
There is no way around, over, under, to subvert or to abuse the VGB Protocol and it benefits everyone but especially the smaller miners which is the majority.
You'll need to explain that protocol then. Bitcoin didn't get where it is from being closed.
Vlad2Vlad
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July 13, 2013, 01:27:33 AM
 #29

The VGB protocol isn't closed and it can be copied by anyone once it gets out.

It's simply something that cannot be abused or subverted or overcome while rewarding everyone who mines while rewarding the smaller miners more.  

So many miners here and nobody is even interested in this at least for themselves.  I hardly mine Desiree the difficulty is too high for my crappy rig yet I still care enough to have come up with a protocol that I think will work and improve the mining enjoyment and reward for everyone.  

What does a guy have to do to get a programmer on board.  For crying out-loud, I'm paying for it and most programmers can do this in an hour or two.  This is really quite shocking.

Well, no point nesting a dead horse.  

If there's a programmer who wants something better for yourself and your fellow man then let me know.  

Take care, everyone.   God bless!

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July 13, 2013, 01:41:09 AM
 #30

The VGB protocol isn't closed and it can be copied by anyone once it gets out.

It's simply something that cannot be abused or subverted or overcome while rewarding everyone who mines while rewarding the smaller miners more.
What possibly stops a single powerful miner from pretending to be many small miners? Short of requiring all miners to submit proof of identification (such as a government-issued ID) that's an impossibility. And frankly, if you're not a programmer, I have much less trust in your judgment of the security of the protocol, but I welcome you to surprise me.

So many miners here and nobody is even interested in this at least for themselves.  I hardly mine Desiree the difficulty is too high for my crappy rig yet I still care enough to have come up with a protocol that I think will work and improve the mining enjoyment and reward for everyone.
Bitcoin doesn't exist to benefit miners. It exists to provide a decentralized value transfer system, and the miners are a requirement for the system to function at all because it's decentralized. To try to create a cryptocurrency that exists purposefully to profit miners and isn't fully decentralized misses the point on multiple levels.

What does a guy have to do to get a programmer on board.  For crying out-loud, I'm paying for it and most programmers can do this in an hour or two.  This is really quite shocking.
This system does not seem feasible in several ways, and it doesn't appear likely to be successful. There are already many successful centralized payment systems which are less plagued by issues.
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July 13, 2013, 01:56:53 AM
 #31

You can't ask people for their opinions and then completely ignore or argue the points that you personally don't like. If you don't want to know what we think, then just launch your coin with you getting a cut of what everyone mines and watch it die. If your idea is so amazing that it makes us all feel the need to give you 1% of our mining, then it will succeed. Simple as that

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July 13, 2013, 01:58:09 AM
 #32

The VGB protocol isn't closed and it can be copied by anyone once it gets out.

It's simply something that cannot be abused or subverted or overcome while rewarding everyone who mines while rewarding the smaller miners more.
What possibly stops a single powerful miner from pretending to be many small miners? Short of requiring all miners to submit proof of identification (such as a government-issued ID) that's an impossibility. And frankly, if you're not a programmer, I have much less trust in your judgment of the security of the protocol, but I welcome you to surprise me.

So many miners here and nobody is even interested in this at least for themselves.  I hardly mine Desiree the difficulty is too high for my crappy rig yet I still care enough to have come up with a protocol that I think will work and improve the mining enjoyment and reward for everyone.
Bitcoin doesn't exist to benefit miners. It exists to provide a decentralized value transfer system, and the miners are a requirement for the system to function at all because it's decentralized. To try to create a cryptocurrency that exists purposefully to profit miners and isn't fully decentralized misses the point on multiple levels.

What does a guy have to do to get a programmer on board.  For crying out-loud, I'm paying for it and most programmers can do this in an hour or two.  This is really quite shocking.
This system does not seem feasible in several ways, and it doesn't appear likely to be successful. There are already many successful centralized payment systems which are less plagued by issues.

Hello nail head...meet hammer. Can't really be much clearer than is explained right there

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July 13, 2013, 03:44:56 AM
 #33

may be interesting - I say try it and let's see
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July 13, 2013, 03:51:38 AM
 #34

"I get 1% of mined coins", Every miner is contributing 1% to you.
That's what you want. Try to learn something from Sunny or Satoshi, give before you take.
Thanks for the offer, But I will pass.

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July 13, 2013, 04:26:24 AM
Last edit: July 13, 2013, 04:42:28 AM by markm
 #35

How are you going to even create so much as a shallow illusion of an ability to tell who is small and who is large, let alone actually tell?

-MarkM-


The VGB does that automatically and without a flaw.  The distribution of the 10% if I have to premine it is the hard part, cause I don't want to premine but the programmer said that's the only feasible affordable way and that my plans are too ambitions.

Come on MarkM, help me not launch another crapCoin.  Help me with just the idea of how to distribute this 10% to the miners in a fair way without premining cause right now it will have to be premined and that's gonna look like a pump and dump and I hate the very idea.  Thanks for your help.

How are you going to afford to check people's passports or social insurance numbers or whatever so as to be sure they are actually distinct different people?

It is very expensive to be reasonably sure no two purported "miners" are actually the same "scammer" in disguise.

I do have a way to reward small players, but it depends on them actually being players, because the way it makes a botnet controlling person's millions of "non player characters" less effective per fake person aka "non player character" than characters played by "real players" is by having the "game" (the actual process of standing up, drinking when thirsty, bathing when dirty, eating when hungry, getting to a mine that has valuable resources available to be mined without being robbed or killed, etc etc etc) be difficult for scripts to fully handle.

A botnet owner could deploy a million characters (at the same cost per player-account or per character as anyone else pays to cover the costs of the game servers) but one superhero of higher level with better armour and magic sword, or one high level thief,who observes the botnet characters' actions carefully with insightful thinking about exactly what the scripts running them are really triggering on, can screw up thousands of them at a time. Or one artisan demolishing a fountain the botnet characters all fill their waterskins at could make them all die of thirst until the botnet owner improves their scripts to make botnet characters who find a fountain gone or gone-dry call in an artisan to construct a new one, maybe meanwhile also having a whole list of fallback fountains and pools and rivers and so on to fall back to.

Basically until scripters have developed amazingly fully-adaptive character-running scripts a player who can put a few minutes now and then into putting each character back into a situation its scripts expect should be able to do much better per character deployed than the botnet player who will tend to regularly need to manually get thousands of characters back on script...

And of course once amazingly adaptive scripts have been developed wow, what amazing populations of non player characters games will be populated by!

See http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=cpu_mining

-MarkM-

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July 13, 2013, 04:42:38 AM
Last edit: July 13, 2013, 05:03:51 AM by Vivisector999
 #36

I hope you realize, I am being critical on you because since I named the coin, I feel like I have a tie or lifeblood with it.  Not like it's mine or anything, but kind of like when you go on a summer vacation and meet your cousins that live 1000 miles away, that you knew existed, but you actually never met before.

Thus no matter how silly it is, I will more then likely mine it.  How much I will mine it is questionable, but I will def be mining it, so I am hoping to steer it away from having really wonky ideas.

The name came from brainstorming and a number of people had a hand in it.  Nuggets stuck and yes, if this coin takes off you get the honor for naming it.  I could have named it myself but I felt like a miner's coin should be named by miners - since the beginning I've been trying to do what's right and it seems like some people just hash away on me regardless of how hard I try to do what's fair and right by everyone.


Lol, I don't want any credit for it.  I just think it's cool I had some small tiny factor in it, and that alone makes me want to mine it.  And also to hope it doesn't die a fiery death.  But you really seem intent on watching it burn.  LOL.  Please name all these coins that developers are getting a cut on, and I wil show you a handful of coins that failed because they were created not by people who understand cryptocurrency, or how it can exist.  Instead you will see developers that came here because they heard cryptocurrency is the next bubble, and they want a get rich quick scheme. If you look at the cryptocurrencies that have actually made something of themselves, you will see a pile of coins where the developer is not taking any cut in "owning" the coin.  If you want to make money off people there are 2 ways that are totally acceptable by the community.  Set up a Coin Developer Donation Fund, and create a pool.  Pools charging 2% are accepted even though a lot of the pools run only under donations as well.

Check out AC3  @ https://ac3.io/
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July 13, 2013, 04:51:33 AM
 #37

I hope you realize, I am being critical on you because since I named the coin, I feel like I have a tie or lifeblood with it.  Not like it's mine or anything, but kind of like when you go on a summer vacation and meet your cousins that live 1000 miles away, that you knew existed, but you actually never met before.

Thus no matter how silly it is, I will more then likely mine it.  How much I will mine it is questionable, but I will def be mining it, so I am hoping to steer it away from having really wonky ideas.

The name came from brainstorming and a number of people had a hand in it.  Nuggets stuck and yes, if this coin takes off you get the honor for naming it.  I could have named it myself but I felt like a miner's coin should be named by miners - since the beginning I've been trying to do what's right and it seems like some people just hash away on me regardless of how hard I try to do what's fair and right by everyone.


Lol, I don't want any credit for it.  I just think it's cool I had some small tiny factor in it, and that alone makes me want to mine it.  And also to hope it doesn't die a fiery death.

Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea

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July 13, 2013, 04:58:09 AM
 #38

Well Allahcoin takes 10% for "the muslim brotherhood", so maybe they will show us how well catholicoin would have gone over...

-MarkM-

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July 13, 2013, 05:02:04 AM
 #39

Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea
As you say, even if we ignore those parts, what are we left with? The "VGB protocol" (which a non-programmer thought up?) that magically identifies small miners and rewards them a relatively bigger share. Until a very good explanation comes forth, he might as well say "magic". "MagicCoin" might be a catchy name.
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July 13, 2013, 05:12:21 AM
 #40

Vlad has good intentions, but his stubborness to getting his 1% of everything mined is going to be his downfall, provided his other protocols aren't completely retarded and actually live up to the hype he's setting for them.

I like the guy, but I think he will be the thing that ruins it if he keeps getting so upset when people tell him they don't want to be forced to give him 1% of the total coins, as well as the 10% "let's centralize a currency that is fundamentally designed to be decentralized" idea
As you say, even if we ignore those parts, what are we left with? The "VGB protocol" (which a non-programmer thought up?) that magically identifies small miners and rewards them a relatively bigger share. Until a very good explanation comes forth, he might as well say "magic". "MagicCoin" might be a catchy name.

Exactly. I'm on your side here.

To be fair though, he does say he works in economics and I would rather an economist come up with a new idea than a programmer when it comes to distribution, but I agree with you, so far everything is looking not so great

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