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Author Topic: [ANN][ICO] savedroid - BITCOIN SAVING MADE EASY!  (Read 55363 times)
Sozialtourist
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February 06, 2018, 01:57:42 PM
 #701

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?
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faulerwilli
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February 06, 2018, 02:23:04 PM
 #702

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?

That's how I understood it. Would make sense, what value should you otherwise take? Unfortunately, I'm on the road and have no time to look, but in the white paper is certainly something to read about it, right?
Cnote328
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February 06, 2018, 02:35:08 PM
 #703

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

It may take some time but market will recover. During this fall we should buy those currencies which is backed by good business/project and hold it for few months. Many time I have seen such correction in market and it recovered and made new high also

Your correct Anilg It's certain the market will definitely recover but when it will recover is unknown at the moment definitely a good time to buy
gee777
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February 06, 2018, 02:52:28 PM
 #704

Guys, look below link and rating. Its seems to be good going...

Savedroid Team is working hardly....

https://cryptogo.de/en/savedroid-cryptocurrencies-for-everyone/

5.9 SCORE
 Product6.5
 Market5.6
 Use of Blockchain3.6
 Whitepaper6.4
 Roadmap7.6
 Business Modell5.9
 Team6.8
 Token Sale4.6

Status Quo

 200k Downloads
 10 Million € in Transactions
 25k+ Telegram
 3000+ Twitter
 8100+ Facebook
 3 Million € Funding

This is quite low for a project like savedroid and this might push off potential investors from participating in the main sale
tobson2 (OP)
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February 06, 2018, 03:04:29 PM
 #705

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?
We update ETH and BTC rates 4 times a day (0, 6, 12 and 18 o'clock CET) based on an average of Kraken and Bitstamp.

Gunny95
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February 06, 2018, 03:09:20 PM
 #706


Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?

As others have pointed this out, when you transfer ETH, the value of your investment is locked in USD equivalent value and that amount will be considered when distributing the tokens.

If ETH would have increased by 50% from the moment you invested till the moment you received the tokens, your investment is from your persective worth 1.5x the amount you invested in USD value

But most ICO only look at the USD equivalent value of the moment you invested, savedroid and most ICOs do this because it is fair for both parties

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing
ibininja
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February 06, 2018, 03:13:08 PM
 #707

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

I for one would not mind a little difference given the process would be seamless and quick; the current process in traditional exchanges is just tedious and takes so long you just hate it. I mean I would always have to move to an exchange that supports fiat meh. looking out for this.

cryptossi
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February 06, 2018, 03:22:17 PM
 #708

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?
We update ETH and BTC rates 4 times a day (0, 6, 12 and 18 o'clock CET) based on an average of Kraken and Bitstamp.

Interesting method of calculating the price, this could also work in the investors favour.

This means that if the value of bitcoin was higher earlier in the day,( before Savedroid updates it's BTC value), you would be able to buy more SVD tokens than your BTC is actually worth!

Is it wise to have such a long gap between BTC price updates?

4 hours is quite a long gap especially in bitcoin/crypto markets where a lot can happen in that space of time Tongue

tobson2 (OP)
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February 06, 2018, 03:40:41 PM
 #709

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?
We update ETH and BTC rates 4 times a day (0, 6, 12 and 18 o'clock CET) based on an average of Kraken and Bitstamp.

Interesting method of calculating the price, this could also work in the investors favour.

This means that if the value of bitcoin was higher earlier in the day,( before Savedroid updates it's BTC value), you would be able to buy more SVD tokens than your BTC is actually worth!

Is it wise to have such a long gap between BTC price updates?

4 hours is quite a long gap especially in bitcoin/crypto markets where a lot can happen in that space of time Tongue
Yes it's quite a long gap und we take a significant risk here. But we assume it's not fair to our investors giving them no clear statement how many tokens they'll get for their investment. That would be the case if we consider realtime-exchange rates.

Gunny95
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February 06, 2018, 04:18:45 PM
 #710

Guys, look below link and rating. Its seems to be good going...

Savedroid Team is working hardly....

https://cryptogo.de/en/savedroid-cryptocurrencies-for-everyone/

5.9 SCORE
 Product6.5
 Market5.6
 Use of Blockchain3.6
 Whitepaper6.4
 Roadmap7.6
 Business Modell5.9
 Team6.8
 Token Sale4.6

Status Quo

 200k Downloads
 10 Million € in Transactions
 25k+ Telegram
 3000+ Twitter
 8100+ Facebook
 3 Million € Funding

This is quite low for a project like savedroid and this might push off potential investors from participating in the main sale

I think you are right but if the investor does a bit research, the person will notice that the review itself contains some errors and should not believe it as absolute truth

I always say DYOR, do your OWN research, information shown on external websites can always have other motives

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing
jamzzz123
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February 06, 2018, 04:28:39 PM
 #711

Guys, look below link and rating. Its seems to be good going...

Savedroid Team is working hardly....

https://cryptogo.de/en/savedroid-cryptocurrencies-for-everyone/

5.9 SCORE
 Product6.5
 Market5.6
 Use of Blockchain3.6
 Whitepaper6.4
 Roadmap7.6
 Business Modell5.9
 Team6.8
 Token Sale4.6

Status Quo

 200k Downloads
 10 Million € in Transactions
 25k+ Telegram
 3000+ Twitter
 8100+ Facebook
 3 Million € Funding

This is quite low for a project like savedroid and this might push off potential investors from participating in the main sale

I think you are right but if the investor does a bit research, the person will notice that the review itself contains some errors and should not believe it as absolute truth

I always say DYOR, do your OWN research, information shown on external websites can always have other motives

You have to take these ICO reviewers with a pinch of salt.

Company like cryptogo similar to icobench - they're not the best editors or writers they just give you a non-biased review pointing out the key facts and the pro's and con's.

Nothing to do with the actual project team or devs
Ace44
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February 06, 2018, 04:51:23 PM
 #712

Guys, look below link and rating. Its seems to be good going...

Savedroid Team is working hardly....

https://cryptogo.de/en/savedroid-cryptocurrencies-for-everyone/

5.9 SCORE
 Product6.5
 Market5.6
 Use of Blockchain3.6
 Whitepaper6.4
 Roadmap7.6
 Business Modell5.9
 Team6.8
 Token Sale4.6

Status Quo

 200k Downloads
 10 Million € in Transactions
 25k+ Telegram
 3000+ Twitter
 8100+ Facebook
 3 Million € Funding

This is quite low for a project like savedroid and this might push off potential investors from participating in the main sale

I think you are right but if the investor does a bit research, the person will notice that the review itself contains some errors and should not believe it as absolute truth

I always say DYOR, do your OWN research, information shown on external websites can always have other motives

Yes, i don't base my decision on one review or rating, everyone has their own personal interest , some maybe obscured, how do we even ascertain the credibility of such site, i'm not been biased, just speaking from experience
faulerwilli
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February 06, 2018, 05:11:44 PM
 #713

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?
We update ETH and BTC rates 4 times a day (0, 6, 12 and 18 o'clock CET) based on an average of Kraken and Bitstamp.


very interesting, so now we can speculate on a better course during the 4 hours. that will certainly be interesting and exciting. This is really new for me, so I have to prepare well, to choose the right strategy when buying :-)
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February 06, 2018, 05:12:44 PM
 #714

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?
We update ETH and BTC rates 4 times a day (0, 6, 12 and 18 o'clock CET) based on an average of Kraken and Bitstamp.

Interesting method of calculating the price, this could also work in the investors favour.

This means that if the value of bitcoin was higher earlier in the day,( before Savedroid updates it's BTC value), you would be able to buy more SVD tokens than your BTC is actually worth!

Is it wise to have such a long gap between BTC price updates?

4 hours is quite a long gap especially in bitcoin/crypto markets where a lot can happen in that space of time Tongue
Yes it's quite a long gap und we take a significant risk here. But we assume it's not fair to our investors giving them no clear statement how many tokens they'll get for their investment. That would be the case if we consider realtime-exchange rates.

It is a bit of risk but after all the investments for the ICO have been made it will balance out in the end, thanks for your very quick response, the Savedroid team seem to have thought of every aspect of the project/tokensale, it's nice to know that the team are so knowledgeable.

tobson2 (OP)
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February 06, 2018, 05:17:42 PM
 #715

savedroid ICO: What the tokens will be used for
A key question that everyone should ask before buying into an ICO is: what will the tokens be used for? In the case of savedroid, the token will become the key payment in the new crypto ecosystem of the company — and therefore has good chances to show a strong performance if savedroid’s crypto simplification strategy works.

Read more at our latest blog post https://medium.com/@ico_8796/savedroid-ico-what-the-tokens-will-be-used-for-d88011554638

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February 06, 2018, 05:25:27 PM
 #716

savedroid ICO: What the tokens will be used for
A key question that everyone should ask before buying into an ICO is: what will the tokens be used for? In the case of savedroid, the token will become the key payment in the new crypto ecosystem of the company — and therefore has good chances to show a strong performance if savedroid’s crypto simplification strategy works.

Read more at our latest blog post https://medium.com/@ico_8796/savedroid-ico-what-the-tokens-will-be-used-for-d88011554638

Nice infographics, an enabling environment to allow SVD flow through the community, is not just to buy and hodl but to use the tokens effectively across the community making it a perfect means of exchange and opening that avenue for people to actually want SVD, thereby increasing the value
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February 06, 2018, 05:30:16 PM
 #717

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?
We update ETH and BTC rates 4 times a day (0, 6, 12 and 18 o'clock CET) based on an average of Kraken and Bitstamp.

Interesting method of calculating the price, this could also work in the investors favour.

This means that if the value of bitcoin was higher earlier in the day,( before Savedroid updates it's BTC value), you would be able to buy more SVD tokens than your BTC is actually worth!

Is it wise to have such a long gap between BTC price updates?

4 hours is quite a long gap especially in bitcoin/crypto markets where a lot can happen in that space of time Tongue
Yes it's quite a long gap und we take a significant risk here. But we assume it's not fair to our investors giving them no clear statement how many tokens they'll get for their investment. That would be the case if we consider realtime-exchange rates.

Actually, I think these 4 hours is a pretty good timespan. Other projects adjust the rates not that often or some even have a fixed rate of tokens you get per ETH. So I am totally fine with your decision.
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February 06, 2018, 06:14:54 PM
 #718

savedroid ICO: What the tokens will be used for
A key question that everyone should ask before buying into an ICO is: what will the tokens be used for? In the case of savedroid, the token will become the key payment in the new crypto ecosystem of the company — and therefore has good chances to show a strong performance if savedroid’s crypto simplification strategy works.

Read more at our latest blog post https://medium.com/@ico_8796/savedroid-ico-what-the-tokens-will-be-used-for-d88011554638

thanks for that, just read it and personally i find this point very interesting, since I'm sure that savedroid will find very, very many users:

"So, eventually, our user growth will drive an increasing demand for savedroid tokens on the one hand and, at the same time, a decreasing supply of savedroid tokens on the other hand. Hence, the value of the savedroid token depends, among other factors, on our future user growth."

So if, as I think, many new users come to it, the value of SVD can only rise :-)

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February 06, 2018, 06:29:04 PM
 #719

What price will be on ICO? Price fixed in usd or in ETH? And what price was on pre-sale?
You have working payments system already? ( I see, that you have app on 1st page)

That ist an interessanting question, especially when the market goes down like the last weeks. I hope the fixed rate is svd in Euro. You have to pay much more when your Payment is in ETH.

I believe the savedroid team will have several ways of paying, I think they will accept Euro and the normal BTC / ETH as most popular payment methods, interesting times ahead with the market showing signs of weakness, I hope we can recover from here

As they also accept fiat and they say the price per token is 0.01 €, I assume they will adjust the rate of tokens per ETH (and BTC) constantly. Maybe based on an average price of ETH over the last 24 hours, like some other projects did.

Savedroid convert ETH/BTC through their payment system to keep in line with the current ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR prices. There is a bit of a spread but you do not lose a lot in the great scheme of things.  

So does this basically mean, that we will get the 'live' rates for ETH/EUR & BTC/EUR when we participate in the ICO? So, for example, when I'll send ETH, their payment system gets the current market price of ETH in the moment I sent it, and then calculates an individual SVD/ETH for me?
We update ETH and BTC rates 4 times a day (0, 6, 12 and 18 o'clock CET) based on an average of Kraken and Bitstamp.

Interesting method of calculating the price, this could also work in the investors favour.

This means that if the value of bitcoin was higher earlier in the day,( before Savedroid updates it's BTC value), you would be able to buy more SVD tokens than your BTC is actually worth!

Is it wise to have such a long gap between BTC price updates?

4 hours is quite a long gap especially in bitcoin/crypto markets where a lot can happen in that space of time Tongue
Yes it's quite a long gap und we take a significant risk here. But we assume it's not fair to our investors giving them no clear statement how many tokens they'll get for their investment. That would be the case if we consider realtime-exchange rates.

Actually, I think these 4 hours is a pretty good timespan. Other projects adjust the rates not that often or some even have a fixed rate of tokens you get per ETH. So I am totally fine with your decision.


I imagine its more a balancing act between being fare to the ICO and being fare to the Investors, adding some lag to the price stops people from taking advantage at short term spikes/drops in price that might make it unfare between users who are buying tokens :S Or thats the way i see it at least
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February 06, 2018, 06:56:32 PM
 #720

savedroid ICO: What the tokens will be used for
A key question that everyone should ask before buying into an ICO is: what will the tokens be used for? In the case of savedroid, the token will become the key payment in the new crypto ecosystem of the company — and therefore has good chances to show a strong performance if savedroid’s crypto simplification strategy works.
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*mZbzM5muSfXkKGyNKn0lrA.png
Read more at our latest blog post https://medium.com/@ico_8796/savedroid-ico-what-the-tokens-will-be-used-for-d88011554638

Thanks for the link to the article. Everything is explained there in a way that everyone can understands easily. I think it's great that you release those articles from time to time, so people can get this important information without having to look through the whole whitepaper every time.

I have one question though. The article says: "A savedroid user, who has not participated in our ICO, will have two options after our ICO: either he directly buys SVD at a token exchange or, conveniently, directly within the savedroid mobile apps.". How will the users be abe to buy SVD's from within the app? Will it connects them to an exchange or make the purchase from there or will there be a supply of SVD available for sale through the app? Will SVD holders be able to sell their SVD through the app or only through exchanges?
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