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Author Topic: I am willing to argue public education has ruined this country...  (Read 31623 times)
jgraham
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July 19, 2011, 04:15:25 PM
 #101

For those of you interested in another perspective, I'd suggest reading the book "Education: Free and Compulsory" by Murray Rothbard, available for free (ironically) here:


http://mises.org/daily/2226
Seems like kind of the same thing...

Perhaps I simply don't read the kind of journals these people do but the quality of research there is crap.   Why does anyone at all care about what George Harris said about something ages ago?  What was his sample size? What steps were taken to randomize it?  What kind of criteria was used to judge outcomes?  George Harris can frack off...when he actually knows how to do a regression analysis...then he can come back and play with the big kids.

I mean honestly it's one thing to consider it coffee-table material - conversation starting but not useful in determining an outcome.  However precisely the same argument could be made for the Weekly World News.  Personally I'd rather be debating paving the rain forests and giving teachers stun-guns than any of the books suggested in this thread to-date.

Oh and where these people paid by the word?  Murray Rothbard and Gatos could give Gurdjieff a run for his money.

I mean just listen to this nonsense.

Quote from: Rothbard
With the development of civilization and individual diversity, there is less and less area of identical uniformity, and therefore less "equality." Only robots on the assembly line or blades of grass can be considered as completely equal, as being identical with respect to all of their attributes. The fewer attributes that two organisms have in common, the less they are "equal" and the more they are unequal.

Doesn't anyone see how specious that is?  What's an "attribute"?  How many them exist?  Without a formal definition you can get any answer you want.  Irony of irony Harris actually touched on this in the very book that Rothbard references!  Essentially he says that we see differences depending on what we are comparing things too.   Men look very similar when compared to animals but not when compared to each other.

Quote from: Rothbard
Civilized human beings, therefore, are unequal in most of their personalities. This fact of inequality, in tastes, and in ability and character, is not necessarily an invidious distinction. It simply reflects the scope of human diversity.

Since Rothbard doesn't define his term "attribute" it's hardly unexpected that he'd define a term like "personalities" let alone "tastes, ability and character". 

Quote
It is evident that the common enthusiasm for equality is, in the fundamental sense, anti-human.

Given that Rothbard defines virtually nothing what can we conclude here?  Some things about some parts of people are intrinsically unequal and changing that is somehow against humanity.  Congratulations! You've just won, a brand new "is-ought" fallacy!

Quote
It tends to repress the flowering of individual personality and diversity, and civilization itself; it is a drive toward savage uniformity. Since abilities and interests are naturally diverse, a drive toward making people equal in all or most respects is necessarily a leveling downward. It is a drive against development of talent, genius, variety, and reasoning power.

So making people have all or mostly the same interests and abilities (whatever those are) is bad.  Is math an interest or an ability?  Is not giving most people an foundational education in math a bad or anti-human?  To me anyway while we could quibble on the various elements of math education which are the most relevant to society.  Do people here really advocate that having no ability at math doesn't give people a significant disadvantage in today's society?  How about language?  Should everyone have their own languages?  Or histories?  Or science?

See this is what makes Rothbards argument sound like a gigantic strawman in regards to today's schools.   If by "abilities" he means "education" schools don't have the ability to educate people in every subject to exactly the same level.  At best they can provide knowledge foundational to operate in society.  As it stands we barely get high-school graduates educated in enough math to understand the math that gets thrown at an adult every day.   Likewise we barely give them enough science to  understand the science that gets thrown at adults every day.

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May 31, 2017, 10:18:16 AM
 #102

This is so true. However, I think that the communist attitude doesn't lend it towards success. Don't just look at the scores, also look at the achievements that people living in a nation are able to achieve. People not only have achieved more in terms of both economic and technological development in the so called out run nations who can't achieve higher score on tests. Dissertation Store - dissertation service .Just look at the rate of innovation and growth in the USA. While their children can't get the highest scores in international tests, but their excellent infrastructure has enabled them to achieve growth at  very high pace.
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May 31, 2017, 10:26:53 AM
 #103

Now deceased, Zbigniew Brzezinski, believed that Marxism is a more progressive model of the state, but it took over Communist adventurers and managed to spoil the idea. For putting into practice the Marxist-Communist theory, it can be quite effective.
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May 31, 2017, 10:59:09 AM
 #104

Public education rather destroys a person's identity, so that it is easier to manage and he did not develop as a person. Only units can not succumb to this system and think independently.

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May 31, 2017, 05:19:48 PM
 #105

We are all standardized, graded, economically and ideologically controlled off the shelf rent a products for government industry and the rich. The public education system churns out graded products, with a certificate so buyers know what kind of quality of slave they are getting Sad

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June 09, 2017, 08:57:55 AM
 #106

Watch the movie Captain Fantastic, show what I think of the educational system Wink

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July 05, 2017, 01:43:20 PM
 #107

I am not the competent person to speak about the education in United States as I am from Greece and I've never visited your area.Nevertheless as a school graduate I have noticed that many countries has the same problem as they are downgraded because of the low ever of education.Certainly here in my country the problem is opposite.The school teaches very specialised knowledge which is not useful for the average teenagers.In this way schools promotes memorization and not the skills and the talents of children.
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July 05, 2017, 01:54:40 PM
 #108

Education can't destroy the country even if it is public. Many people do not want to get an education and it's really a problem. If a person wants to get education he can get it. Important is not the government's approach to education, and people's desire to learn.
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July 05, 2017, 01:57:52 PM
 #109

The test consisted of over 40 questions covering Grammar, Arithmetic, U.S. History, Orthography, and Geography.  Five hours were allotted to complete the exam.  The following questions are taken directly from the actual test:

· What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of lie, lay, and run.

· District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?

· Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.

· Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?

· Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.

· What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
 
· Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.

· Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.

It is interesting to note that these questions were geared toward preparing the students to become knowledgeable and productive members of a free society; not the mindless values and sensitivity training our children are now required to learn in public schools.  How many of today’s eighth-grade graduates could answer the example questions correctly (or the rest of the test)?  Realistically, how many high school or college graduates possess the knowledge level required to have successfully graduated the eighth grade in 1895?  An eighth-grade education obviously meant something 100 years ago!

Today, public schools have only decayed even further.  We now have a blatantly socialistic, one-world, homosexual agenda constantly forced upon all the children in the system.  Public schools increasingly have become less focused on real education, and are more engaged in training children to be subservient world citizens with only politically correct values.  Parental authority and wishes are ignored, and children are encouraged to view their parents as incompetent and unenlightened.  Parents who are alarmed at these trends are finding that alternate education options are becoming more difficult.  I am alarmed by reports of home schooling parents being informed they are in violation of state truancy laws unless they are either licensed teachers or are using public school curriculum (both of these “requirements” are completely false if the pertinent state laws are referenced).  I read in horror of home-schooled children forcibly being removed from their homes and parents under highly questionable pretenses.

The world system being placed into operation realizes that the family is the backbone of resistance to their plans, and that children are the key to the final implementation of their designs.  A battle is raging on many fronts for the minds and futures of our children, and the public school system is one of the main battlefields.  Do not allow your innocent ones to be destroyed by this evil!  Consider an active parental role in their education as an insurance policy against the development of future tyranny and as one of the many ways you can combat it today.
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September 29, 2017, 01:03:15 PM
 #110

Education can't destroy the country even if it is public. Many people do not want to get an education and it's really a problem. If a person wants to get education he can get it. Important is not the government's approach to education, and people's desire to learn.

Education can destroy the country since there the government specifically creates a program that can make people robots and they will not be able to think for themselves. To achieve success in life, it is not obligatory to follow public education.

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September 29, 2017, 04:32:33 PM
 #111

Education is a strong weapon. I'm part of education system in my country. I can strongly say - it can destroy anything in a long term. You can form society according to your needs and plans without any visible harm in a short term point of view. But what will happen next in a coming decades will be fruits of planned actions long long time ago!
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December 14, 2017, 02:34:38 AM
 #112

I agree on that, but TV has done an equivalent quantity of damage as well.

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December 18, 2017, 12:34:01 PM
 #113

Public education rather destroys a person's identity, so that it is easier to manage and he did not develop as a person. Only units can not succumb to this system and think independently.
they also try to make all people equally thinking, so that it would be convenient for them to make their "conclusions"...if someone differs from the generally accepted model, then he is sick...this is a terrible disease of our time
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December 19, 2017, 04:45:26 AM
 #114

We are all standardized, graded, economically and ideologically controlled off the shelf rent a products for government industry and the rich. The public education system churns out graded products, with a certificate so buyers know what kind of quality of slave they are getting Sad


I completely agreed with your claims which you mentioned above. We are educated to become slaves to serve for rich people and  These so -called elites decide the subject taught in schools. They can easily manipulate society with this way. For that reason, I am completely against public education.

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October 25, 2018, 10:20:27 AM
 #115

WOW. An Atlas post. I haven't seen that name in a long time.

The US Department of Education is based on a Soviet model. It is about creating indoctrination and socialization, not educating, teaching logic, or critical thought. This process has seriously degraded the abilities of hundreds of millions who might otherwise be living under logic and enjoying the fruits of critical thought.



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April 28, 2019, 05:58:18 PM
 #116

Education is a strong weapon. I'm part of education system in my country. I can strongly say - it can destroy anything in a long term. You can form society according to your needs and plans without any edubirdy visible harm in a short term point of view. But what will happen next in a coming decades will be fruits of planned actions long long time ago!

Indeed, it is so. Unfortunately, not all the people understand the essence of education. But those who understand, even do not apply it correctly. And the process starts from the beginning.
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April 28, 2019, 07:24:45 PM
 #117

WOW. An Atlas post. I haven't seen that name in a long time.

The US Department of Education is based on a Soviet model. It is about creating indoctrination and socialization, not educating, teaching logic, or critical thought. This process has seriously degraded the abilities of hundreds of millions who might otherwise be living under logic and enjoying the fruits of critical thought.



So I'm going to assume that in the past there was a way to post anonymously on the forum? I've literally never seen this before.....




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April 28, 2019, 08:42:13 PM
 #118

That's Right I completely agree with you. In India, people are not teaching studies all they are going is making kids robots. all they want is to make children follow orders like those in military training. they just make your memories and then test how much you have memorized. this is not how the study should be. kids can not learn everything at 0 interest. kids are playful let them enjoy the studies and they will choose what they want to study and how will they gonna do it.
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April 28, 2019, 11:21:10 PM
 #119

WOW. An Atlas post. I haven't seen that name in a long time.

The US Department of Education is based on a Soviet model. It is about creating indoctrination and socialization, not educating, teaching logic, or critical thought. This process has seriously degraded the abilities of hundreds of millions who might otherwise be living under logic and enjoying the fruits of critical thought.



So I'm going to assume that in the past there was a way to post anonymously on the forum? I've literally never seen this before.....

The post was made by a user named Atlas who was banned. I think this is just how the forum worked then, either that or they did not want to nuke his extensive post history.


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ccryptopark
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April 29, 2019, 04:41:38 PM
 #120

I think the way the states looks to public education isn't ideal especially how we have standardized tests and 'grades'. We know well that most people do not fit into either of those molds and by just pumping people through pubic school with such expectations we are only failing the kids of our future.
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