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Author Topic: I am willing to argue public education has ruined this country...  (Read 9445 times)
jgraham
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July 19, 2011, 04:15:25 PM

For those of you interested in another perspective, I'd suggest reading the book "Education: Free and Compulsory" by Murray Rothbard, available for free (ironically) here:


http://mises.org/daily/2226
Seems like kind of the same thing...

Perhaps I simply don't read the kind of journals these people do but the quality of research there is crap.   Why does anyone at all care about what George Harris said about something ages ago?  What was his sample size? What steps were taken to randomize it?  What kind of criteria was used to judge outcomes?  George Harris can frack off...when he actually knows how to do a regression analysis...then he can come back and play with the big kids.

I mean honestly it's one thing to consider it coffee-table material - conversation starting but not useful in determining an outcome.  However precisely the same argument could be made for the Weekly World News.  Personally I'd rather be debating paving the rain forests and giving teachers stun-guns than any of the books suggested in this thread to-date.

Oh and where these people paid by the word?  Murray Rothbard and Gatos could give Gurdjieff a run for his money.

I mean just listen to this nonsense.

Quote from: Rothbard
With the development of civilization and individual diversity, there is less and less area of identical uniformity, and therefore less "equality." Only robots on the assembly line or blades of grass can be considered as completely equal, as being identical with respect to all of their attributes. The fewer attributes that two organisms have in common, the less they are "equal" and the more they are unequal.

Doesn't anyone see how specious that is?  What's an "attribute"?  How many them exist?  Without a formal definition you can get any answer you want.  Irony of irony Harris actually touched on this in the very book that Rothbard references!  Essentially he says that we see differences depending on what we are comparing things too.   Men look very similar when compared to animals but not when compared to each other.

Quote from: Rothbard
Civilized human beings, therefore, are unequal in most of their personalities. This fact of inequality, in tastes, and in ability and character, is not necessarily an invidious distinction. It simply reflects the scope of human diversity.

Since Rothbard doesn't define his term "attribute" it's hardly unexpected that he'd define a term like "personalities" let alone "tastes, ability and character". 

Quote
It is evident that the common enthusiasm for equality is, in the fundamental sense, anti-human.

Given that Rothbard defines virtually nothing what can we conclude here?  Some things about some parts of people are intrinsically unequal and changing that is somehow against humanity.  Congratulations! You've just won, a brand new "is-ought" fallacy!

Quote
It tends to repress the flowering of individual personality and diversity, and civilization itself; it is a drive toward savage uniformity. Since abilities and interests are naturally diverse, a drive toward making people equal in all or most respects is necessarily a leveling downward. It is a drive against development of talent, genius, variety, and reasoning power.

So making people have all or mostly the same interests and abilities (whatever those are) is bad.  Is math an interest or an ability?  Is not giving most people an foundational education in math a bad or anti-human?  To me anyway while we could quibble on the various elements of math education which are the most relevant to society.  Do people here really advocate that having no ability at math doesn't give people a significant disadvantage in today's society?  How about language?  Should everyone have their own languages?  Or histories?  Or science?

See this is what makes Rothbards argument sound like a gigantic strawman in regards to today's schools.   If by "abilities" he means "education" schools don't have the ability to educate people in every subject to exactly the same level.  At best they can provide knowledge foundational to operate in society.  As it stands we barely get high-school graduates educated in enough math to understand the math that gets thrown at an adult every day.   Likewise we barely give them enough science to  understand the science that gets thrown at adults every day.

I'm rather good with Linux.  If you're having problems with your mining rig I'll help you out remotely for 0.05.  You can also propose a flat-rate for some particular task.  PM me for details.
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May 31, 2017, 10:18:16 AM

This is so true. However, I think that the communist attitude doesn't lend it towards success. Don't just look at the scores, also look at the achievements that people living in a nation are able to achieve. People not only have achieved more in terms of both economic and technological development in the so called out run nations who can't achieve higher score on tests. Dissertation Store - dissertation service .Just look at the rate of innovation and growth in the USA. While their children can't get the highest scores in international tests, but their excellent infrastructure has enabled them to achieve growth at  very high pace.
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May 31, 2017, 10:26:53 AM

Now deceased, Zbigniew Brzezinski, believed that Marxism is a more progressive model of the state, but it took over Communist adventurers and managed to spoil the idea. For putting into practice the Marxist-Communist theory, it can be quite effective.

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May 31, 2017, 10:59:09 AM

Public education rather destroys a person's identity, so that it is easier to manage and he did not develop as a person. Only units can not succumb to this system and think independently.

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May 31, 2017, 05:19:48 PM

We are all standardized, graded, economically and ideologically controlled off the shelf rent a products for government industry and the rich. The public education system churns out graded products, with a certificate so buyers know what kind of quality of slave they are getting Sad

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June 09, 2017, 08:57:55 AM

Watch the movie Captain Fantastic, show what I think of the educational system Wink

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July 05, 2017, 01:43:20 PM

I am not the competent person to speak about the education in United States as I am from Greece and I've never visited your area.Nevertheless as a school graduate I have noticed that many countries has the same problem as they are downgraded because of the low ever of education.Certainly here in my country the problem is opposite.The school teaches very specialised knowledge which is not useful for the average teenagers.In this way schools promotes memorization and not the skills and the talents of children.
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July 05, 2017, 01:54:40 PM

Education can't destroy the country even if it is public. Many people do not want to get an education and it's really a problem. If a person wants to get education he can get it. Important is not the government's approach to education, and people's desire to learn.

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July 05, 2017, 01:57:52 PM

The test consisted of over 40 questions covering Grammar, Arithmetic, U.S. History, Orthography, and Geography.  Five hours were allotted to complete the exam.  The following questions are taken directly from the actual test:

キ What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of lie, lay, and run.

キ District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?

キ Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.

キ Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?

キ Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.

キ What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
 
キ Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.

キ Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.

It is interesting to note that these questions were geared toward preparing the students to become knowledgeable and productive members of a free society; not the mindless values and sensitivity training our children are now required to learn in public schools.  How many of today痴 eighth-grade graduates could answer the example questions correctly (or the rest of the test)?  Realistically, how many high school or college graduates possess the knowledge level required to have successfully graduated the eighth grade in 1895?  An eighth-grade education obviously meant something 100 years ago!

Today, public schools have only decayed even further.  We now have a blatantly socialistic, one-world, homosexual agenda constantly forced upon all the children in the system.  Public schools increasingly have become less focused on real education, and are more engaged in training children to be subservient world citizens with only politically correct values.  Parental authority and wishes are ignored, and children are encouraged to view their parents as incompetent and unenlightened.  Parents who are alarmed at these trends are finding that alternate education options are becoming more difficult.  I am alarmed by reports of home schooling parents being informed they are in violation of state truancy laws unless they are either licensed teachers or are using public school curriculum (both of these 途equirements are completely false if the pertinent state laws are referenced).  I read in horror of home-schooled children forcibly being removed from their homes and parents under highly questionable pretenses.

The world system being placed into operation realizes that the family is the backbone of resistance to their plans, and that children are the key to the final implementation of their designs.  A battle is raging on many fronts for the minds and futures of our children, and the public school system is one of the main battlefields.  Do not allow your innocent ones to be destroyed by this evil!  Consider an active parental role in their education as an insurance policy against the development of future tyranny and as one of the many ways you can combat it today.
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September 29, 2017, 09:21:38 AM

I've just stumbled across this thread and just wanted to share my two cents on this topic.

In my opinion, educational system today is garbage. At the present time educational systems are extremely behind with todays trends and technologies. "wow you got some tablets for a class" this is not keeping up with technologies. These are dark times for young people.

What i also notice is that the students are evolving themselves. Smarter kids know that in order to keep up with stuff these days you can't fully rely on your school/university, you have to put your own time into it. That is why we see more and more first year students who have already built their portfolios - created an app, website or just already work in an IT company. This is very satisfying to hear that there is a light at the end of this dark, medieval age, educational system of ours.

Lastly i would like to grab your attention and invite you to the blockchain ICOs bus. I don't know how much everyone is familiar with blockchains and ICOs. But there is big perspective for us to revolutionise the educational system in the NEAR future and let each and every person in the world have a chance at having a good quality livelihood in their future life.

I have noticed that the now popular way of getting a project out using ICOs has caught the attention of companies whom are interested in changing the educational system. Most of them are using a concept of online educational companies which isn't really revolutionising anything. BUT finally i am very happy to write this because, i repeat, FINALLY some smart heads decided to actually revolutionise the broken, good for nothing, educational system we have today. I am talking about Bitdegree. Just give this ICO a read on their white paper and you will catch up on what i am thinking right now about this subject.

For those lazy to read the white paper i will try to make it short right here. BitDegree main idea as i understand it is to prepare students for actual jobs in real life and not make them lost in the world after getting their bachelors degree. I think this is what we want. This is what the whole flipping educational system needs. No more generic, old school systems that can in reality prepare about 10% if not less, of the students involved. I really hope they succeed and will be offering high quality education courses. What is extremely great is that the employers will actually choose what workers they need and they will invest in getting such workers.

I don't know..the whole idea sounds extremely perspective and disruptive of the whole educational system globally.

What are your thoughts on this? DM me what you think i would be happy to have a conversation about this.

Good luck, Bob
Wa(t)ch_night()
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September 29, 2017, 01:03:15 PM

Education can't destroy the country even if it is public. Many people do not want to get an education and it's really a problem. If a person wants to get education he can get it. Important is not the government's approach to education, and people's desire to learn.

Education can destroy the country since there the government specifically creates a program that can make people robots and they will not be able to think for themselves. To achieve success in life, it is not obligatory to follow public education.

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September 29, 2017, 04:32:33 PM

Education is a strong weapon. I'm part of education system in my country. I can strongly say - it can destroy anything in a long term. You can form society according to your needs and plans without any visible harm in a short term point of view. But what will happen next in a coming decades will be fruits of planned actions long long time ago!
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