[ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - www.middlecoin.com

[Liquidfire]

I'll concede to your superior statistical skills. 

Now, can you please explain how lowering the difficulty will change the fact that each hash submitted will have the exact same chance of containing a nonce that is below the target for the block?

That's what I am not following.  We can stop using the gambling analogy since my statistical skills are subpar.

I do not have superior statistic skills. I took a college 200 level statistics class, hardly superior. What we are discussing is taught in high school. Stop taking it personal.

Lowering the difficulty helps because it averages out over time. If I generate a random number, between one and a thousand, and I call 10 or less a "success", there is an exact probability I can calculate. Over time, the actual number will come very close to the predicted 10 out of 1000.

Now say I change it to say that 20 and below are a success. I can reliability predict that I will have success very close to twice as often.

Based on the difficulty of the share, we can reliability predict the amount of hashes, on average, it will take.

I really can't spell it out anymore than that.

[1713469768]

1713469768

[1713469768]

1713469768

[1713469768]

1713469768

[1713469768]

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[1713469768]

1713469768

[Damnsammit]

Well we can just agree to disagree.

What you are describing is illogical as it doesn't matter either way.

Would you rather have a dollar per share or four quarters?  lol

Cut the difficulty in half so we can all have twice as many shares!  More profitssss.... wait

[Liquidfire]

Yes.  I believe solving a share is equivalent to one independent hash or nonce, if you will. Typically it will take thousands of hashes or millions to solve a share.  Sometimes the first nonce submitted might be lower than the target and thus, a succesfully submitted share.  

Regardless, each hash is independent of the other hashes whether it is one or a trillion.  

Pool difficulty does not change that.

I am going to change this so you see how silly it sounds.


Yes.  I believe winning the powerball is equivalent to one independent powerball ticket, if you will. Typically it will take thousands of powerball tickets to win the powerball.  Sometimes the first powerball ticket purchased might be a winner and thus, a successfully won lottery.  

Regardless, each ticket is independent of the other ticket whether it is one or a trillion.  

Well we can just agree to disagree.

What you are describing is illogical as it doesn't matter either way.

Would you rather have a dollar per share or four quarters?  lol

Cut the difficulty in half so we can all have twice as many shares!  More profitssss.... wait

Can someone else please take over? This is exhausting.

[Eastwind]

The website has not been updated for some time.

WDC is most profitable at the moment. We are still mining LTC.

[h2odysee]

The website has not been updated for some time.

WDC is most profitable at the moment. We are still mining LTC.

The website is now updating again. I had it turned off for something, and forgot to turn it on.

[sQueeZer]

Why dont u guys start Solo-Mining BTC @ 50m Share-Diff when Difficulty doesnt matter?

Maybe because it takes ages to hit a 50m Diff Share?


U guys are clueless what u are taklin about, for real.

[Damnsammit]

Why dont u guys start Solo-Mining BTC @ 50m Share-Diff when Difficulty doesnt matter?

Maybe because it takes ages to hit a 50m Diff Share?


U guys are clueless what u are taklin about, for real.

That's coin difficulty, not pool difficulty.

I don't think anyone has said coin difficulty doesn't matter...

Edit:  nevermind, you are clearly trolling since there is no such thing as a share in solo mining

[sQueeZer]

Why dont u guys start Solo-Mining BTC @ 50m Share-Diff when Difficulty doesnt matter?

Maybe because it takes ages to hit a 50m Diff Share?


U guys are clueless what u are taklin about, for real.

That's coin difficulty, not pool difficulty.

I don't think anyone has said coin difficulty doesn't matter...

Edit:  nevermind, you are clearly trolling since there is no such thing as a share in solo mining

Dude, u didnt understand how Pools work.

A pool is sth like a 'sub-network' for the total Network.
There is no  seperate 'Coin-Difficulty', there is a pool difficulty.
The difficulty of hitting a block is the standard network-diff.

No matter if u solomine or mine in a pool.

Now the pool-operator can set an own Pool-Difficulty in order to lower his Traffic/Bandwith/Load,
so HE has not to check if every submitted share is valid or not.
Basically diff=1 is the way to go because every share could be a valid block.

That causes alot of Pool-Load so the pool-ops go higher diff to sort out the trash on clientside.

Read some basics about that and come back to discuss.

[edit]
There is a kind of share, even when solomining. Every non-valid hash your Hardware produces is a 'share'.
It is just not submitted anywhere because ur mining-client knows what the target-difficulty is and that it is invalid.

[Damnsammit]

Why dont u guys start Solo-Mining BTC @ 50m Share-Diff when Difficulty doesnt matter?

Maybe because it takes ages to hit a 50m Diff Share?


U guys are clueless what u are taklin about, for real.

That's coin difficulty, not pool difficulty.

I don't think anyone has said coin difficulty doesn't matter...

Edit:  nevermind, you are clearly trolling since there is no such thing as a share in solo mining

Dude, u didnt understand how Pools work.

A pool is sth like a 'sub-network' for the total Network.
There is no  seperate 'Coin-Difficulty', there is a pool difficulty.
The difficulty of hitting a block is the standard network-diff.

No matter if u solomine or mine in a pool.

Now the pool-operator can set an own Pool-Difficulty in order to lower his Traffic/Bandwith/Load,
so HE has not to check if every submitted share is valid or not.
Basically diff=1 is the way to go because every share could be a valid block.

That causes alot of Pool-Load so the pool-ops go higher diff to sort out the trash on clientside.

Read some basics about that and come back to discuss.

[edit]
There is a kind of share, even when solomining. Every non-valid hash your Hardware produces is a 'share'.
It is just not submitted anywhere because ur mining-client knows what the target-difficulty is and that it is invalid.

Quoted so you can't change this crap later lol

[sQueeZer]

Bring some arguments instead of quoting... U make yourself look like an uber-troll buddy.

[joris]

sQueeZer, can you give Damnsammit also a quote on independent hashes, difficulty and the 'lost work' paradigm vs. the 'work on the wrong inputs en deliver outputs late at their destination'?

Lowering server load by high diff improves communication speed/bandwidth and thus benefits all miners.

[sQueeZer]

sQueeZer, can you give Damnsammit also a quote on independent hashes, difficulty and the 'lost work' paradigm vs. the 'work on the wrong inputs en deliver outputs late at their destination'?

Lowering server load by high diff improves communication speed/bandwidth and thus benefits all miners.

Why should I quote him? He is clearly searching for colours as a blind person.

Yes, true. Higher diff = better Network performance Client < > Pool.
Because not every 'trash' = lower diff-share than from pool expected is submitted to the pool.

A decent mid is the way to go. Diff = 1 is not possible on big pools. Diff = 32 should be fine when working
on low-diff coins with ~15sec blocktarget time.

Cheers

[ReCat]

Anyone who uses "u" for "you" deserves to be auto-ignored.

And then shot.

And then eaten!

[joris]

Damnsammit isn't trolling, but exhausted from battling nonsense in this thread. Go to your wife D for what you had in mind ;-)

Why is diff 32 fine with blocktarget ~ 15 sec? How do you relate these two.

[Damnsammit]

Actually, sQueeZey, I read it wrong.  You made some good valid points after I deciphered your text.  Although you have not quite mastered the art of the English language, you did help educate me on a few things regarding pooled mining so thank you for that!

When I think of pooled mining, I think of a pool difficulty.  When you compared that to solo mining BTC, I thought of a coin's  difficulty (IE the thing you get when you open the client and type "getmininginfo" or whatever).  

However, this still doesn't explain why the difficulty is "too high" at 512.   Are you saying that blocks would be found faster if the pool op lowered the difficulty?  Because if you are saying that then you are definitely incorrect.   Any submitted share could be a block.  That is correct.  However lowering the difficulty would only mean accepting more shares that aren't going to get the block reward.  If the nonce isn't accepted as a valid share at Diff=512 it might be a valid share at Diff=1, but it will still not get the block.   That is my understanding, but please correct me if I am wrong.

[sQueeZer]

Actually, sQueeZey, I read it wrong.  You made some good valid points after I deciphered your text.  Although you have not quite mastered the art of the English language, you did help educate me on a few things regarding pooled mining so thank you for that!

Ok, thats where discussion starts
I'm not that good in English, sorry for that.

When I think of pooled mining, I think of a pool difficulty.  When you compared that to solo mining BTC, I thought of a coin's  difficulty (IE the thing you get when you open the client and type "getmininginfo" or whatever).  


However, this still doesn't explain why the difficulty is "too high" at 512.   Are you saying that blocks would be found faster if the pool op lowered the difficulty?  Because if you are saying that then you are definitely incorrect.   Any submitted share could be a block.  That is correct.  However lowering the difficulty would only mean accepting more shares that aren't going to get the block reward.  

No, blocks would not been found faster with a lower pool difficulty. BUT the work your hardware did to generate a valid share (=diff 512) would not been lost at all, if you have like ~1share per minute@diff=512 and the blocks are found every ~10seconds. With a lower diff the pool would 'see' that you are working on that block. With higher diff you dont submit anything at all = lower payout.

If the nonce isn't accepted as a valid share at Diff=512 it might be a valid share at Diff=1, but it will still not get the block.   That is my understanding, but please correct me if I am wrong.

That is true, a valid share with diff=512 is also a valid share with diff=1.
If you turn that around a valid share with diff=1 is not automatically a valid share with diff=512.

And thats the point where we lose our mining-effectivity. Lower pool-diff = more valid shares for the miner, no matter if he hits a block or not.


On high difficulty coins (FE Litecoin) it is okay to use higher diff, because the blocks arent found every seconds and you dont lose THAT amount of work.

Just have an eye on that 2 values I circled:


Left circle = The hashrate your hardware is generating.
Right circle = The hashrate which is submitted to the pool and credited.

This span goes way higher WHEN: Block-target time goes down or Pool-difficulty goes up.

My WU on that Pool was like ~1500, which means I throw away ~600kh+ for nothing.

The value 'U:' shows you the total submitted shares per minute @ actual diff. My miner is running @290 in that screenshot with 7.1valid shares per minute.
Higher diff would push 'U:' down, faster blocks would make your workers to restart over and over again.

Can you get my point?

[joris]

I doubt the 'span' goes up with difficulty and ping = 1 ms between both Client Server <> Server <> Coin Network. Cannot prove it however.

Since the above usually ain't true, I agree on the 'span' going up for short block generation time, for the 'restarts' you mention. Time lost in restarts due to the miner not being up to date with the work to be done, is why a high block rate hurts performance.

EDIT: communication chain

[kwaaak]

Thank you h2odysee for providing this service.

I'd like to ask whether there is a pool API for statistics? And please don't let the difficulty-arguers get to you.

[braytz]

Higher diff would push 'U:' down, faster blocks would make your workers to restart over and over again.

Can you get my point?

+1

[h2odysee]

Thank you h2odysee for providing this service.

I'd like to ask whether there is a pool API for statistics? And please don't let the difficulty-arguers get to you.

Not really. The closest thing right now is this:

http://middlecoin.com/json

It has the same info as the web page.

But that format is going to change soon, so I wouldn't bother.

About the difficulty, I know what's right, and what's not. It's fine if people discuss it, because that will help bring them closer to the truth.