Big Bux and Scare Tactics: The Inside Joke about BFL

[Anarchaos]

I've lurked this board for a few months now, and until recently, I could not explain the fanatical anti-BFL sentiment around here.

Don't get me wrong, I think BFL has demonstrated some of the worst PR practices I have ever seen in a company. They have consistently over-promised and under-delivered, and that has cost some people a lot of money, time and effort. But none of that explained to me the rage, the hatred, the malevolence of some posters whenever they talked about BFL. I don't want to exaggerate myself, but the feelings expressed by the anti-BFL folks seemed to me to be the kind of hate that you would have for murderers, rapists or even registered Republicans. The name calling, the bloodlust, the angry mobs calling for Josh's head, it just seemed way out of whack for a new company operating in the digital Wild West of 1st gen ASIC manufacturing. There had to be something I was missing, some element to this equation I just wasn't seeing.

Then it came to me while I was on the crapper.

My hunch is that the people on this forum who are complaining the loudest about BFL, the ones constantly talking about ZOMG SCAMMER TAGS, the ones saying that BFL needs to be sued, the ones saying BFL will file for bankruptcy next month, the ones saying BFL is being investigated by the FBI, CIA, the SEC and the BBQ, etc etc, these people all might have one crucial thing in common with one another: they might be HUGE BFL clients with no intents to get refunds, and who sincerely believe BFL will deliver as promised, albeit late and below specifications.

Think about it. Pretend you are a BFL customer, who has dropped say 1k, 2k, 10k, 50k, etc on mining hardware, and you honestly believe it will be delivered eventually. In this situation, you would want to scare away as much potential competition as possible. To accomplish this, you would go on the forums and scream at the top of your lungs BLOODY MURDER and hope that as many potential ASIC investors as possible get scared away from getting in on the same action you are.

So to sum up my arguments:
(1) BFL has done a crude, sloppy, amateurish job so far. And they probably will still deliver, eventually.
(2) It is in the financial interests of large-scale ASIC investors/owners/operators to scare away as much potential competition as possible.
(3) It is possible to simultaneously believe that BFL will deliver sort-of-as-promised AND call BFL scammers, terrible people, etc on public forums in order to accomplish the above.

So the inside joke here is that the biggest BFL "haters" might very well be the biggest believers in, and customers of, BFL.

[jspielberg]

True if BFL were the only game in town.  Far from it.

[Xian01]

So the inside joke here is that the biggest BFL "haters" might very well be the biggest believers in, and customers of, BFL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

[jamesc760]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I am not a BFL customer, never been a customer there and never will be a customer of BFL, ever and ever. AND I DO HATE THEM. I know it makes no sense, why do I hate a company when I don't even have a stake in it. I just know it's a big freaking lying sumofabitch company that I know I should never do business with.

[k9quaint]

I've lurked this board for a few months now, and until recently, I could not explain the fanatical anti-BFL sentiment around here.

Try reading posts instead of just "lurking". Or better yet, try asking Inaba a serious question about BFL and attempt to get a real answer out of him instead of standard evasive PR. After Inaba heaps the insults on you, accuses you of lying and trolling, and still doesn't answer your question, then you might start to understand why some people harbor anti-BFL sentiment. Or you could just read Inaba's post history and imagine if that hate was directed at you. Inaba has been alienating the Bitcoin community one forum user at a time for the last year. People who haven't been around since June 2012 missed a ton of misrepresentations, hate, and WTFs from BFL.

Other ASIC/FPGA companies have been subjected to the same scrutiny as BFL and have supplied answers. Better yet, those companies have supplied product.

[Anarchaos]

True if BFL were the only game in town.  Far from it.

BFL is currently the only ASIC manufacturer still taking AND filling orders.

I know it makes no sense, why do I hate a company when I don't even have a stake in it.

As "random guy A on an internet message board", I don't know you, "random guy B on an internet message board" I don't know your history, I don't know if you're honest, I don't know if you currently have 5 minirigs on order from BFL, so I can't really take what you say at face value. (I'm not calling you a liar personally etc, just proving a point about internet anonymity)

Try reading posts instead of just "lurking".

I did read them. The whole situation with BFL is just a bigger example of someone at McDonalds yelling at the cashier "I ordered my cheesebuger 15 minutes ago!! I'm very hungry!!" Yes you have waited a long time. Yes you want the product a lot. Yes you have missed out at making money. But the HATE of the sort seen on this board should rationally be only directed at Nazis or mass-murderers or terrorists, not a company you have petty commercial squabble with. JUST TO BE CLEAR, I do not support BFL, I do not defend BFL. They have been terrible at their jobs, but that is not a legit reason in and of itself to HATE them. So I, the casual forum browser, have to conclude that there are other motives at work.

[s40ward]

So the point of your post is "some people get too angry about some things"?  Grats bro. 

Nothing to see here folks!  Carry on!

[k9quaint]

True if BFL were the only game in town.  Far from it.

BFL is currently the only ASIC manufacturer still taking AND filling orders.

Avalon just filled 500K worth of chip orders.
ASICMiner is flooding the market with USB miners.
BFL is taking pre-orders. They do not have the stock to ship you product. You have to wait 3 months (according to them) or more if history proves any guide.

I know it makes no sense, why do I hate a company when I don't even have a stake in it.

As "random guy A on an internet message board", I don't know you, "random guy B on an internet message board" I don't know your history, I don't know if you're honest, I don't know if you currently have 5 minirigs on order from BFL, so I can't really take what you say at face value. (I'm not calling you a liar personally etc, just proving a point about internet anonymity)

You could do research to see if what they say is true. That is a lot of work, and most people don't do it. BFL are also random people on the internet by the way. Try looking up what they have done before BFL. They don't even give last names to their employees.

Try reading posts instead of just "lurking".

I did read them. The whole situation with BFL is just a bigger example of someone at McDonalds yelling at the cashier "I ordered my cheesebuger 15 minutes ago!! I'm very hungry!!" Yes you have waited a long time. Yes you want the product a lot. Yes you have missed out at making money. But the HATE of the sort seen on this board should rationally be only directed at Nazis or mass-murderers or terrorists, not a company you have petty commercial squabble with. JUST TO BE CLEAR, I do not support BFL, I do not defend BFL. They have been terrible at their jobs, but that is not a legit reason in and of itself to HATE them. So I, the casual forum browser, have to conclude that there are other motives at work.

You haven't read the relevant BFL material. You showed up in April 2013 with the "new adoptor wave" of bitcoin hitting $200. Go back to Oct 2012 at least and witness BFL's treatment of their investors. Subject yourself to insults from BFL's employees for a few months. I gave BFL almost 6 months of benefit of the doubt before Inaba's insults convinced me BFL had more to hide than to show.

And if you think people on these forums hate BFL, you should have been here for Pirate@40 or mybitcoin.com.

[gdpone]

I've lurked this board for a few months now, and until recently, I could not explain the fanatical anti-BFL sentiment around here.

Don't get me wrong, I think BFL has demonstrated some of the worst PR practices I have ever seen in a company. They have consistently over-promised and under-delivered, and that has cost some people a lot of money, time and effort. But none of that explained to me the rage, the hatred, the malevolence of some posters whenever they talked about BFL. I don't want to exaggerate myself, but the feelings expressed by the anti-BFL folks seemed to me to be the kind of hate that you would have for murderers, rapists or even registered Republicans. The name calling, the bloodlust, the angry mobs calling for Josh's head, it just seemed way out of whack for a new company operating in the digital Wild West of 1st gen ASIC manufacturing. There had to be something I was missing, some element to this equation I just wasn't seeing.

Then it came to me while I was on the crapper.

My hunch is that the people on this forum who are complaining the loudest about BFL, the ones constantly talking about ZOMG SCAMMER TAGS, the ones saying that BFL needs to be sued, the ones saying BFL will file for bankruptcy next month, the ones saying BFL is being investigated by the FBI, CIA, the SEC and the BBQ, etc etc, these people all might have one crucial thing in common with one another: they might be HUGE BFL clients with no intents to get refunds, and who sincerely believe BFL will deliver as promised, albeit late and below specifications.

Think about it. Pretend you are a BFL customer, who has dropped say 1k, 2k, 10k, 50k, etc on mining hardware, and you honestly believe it will be delivered eventually. In this situation, you would want to scare away as much potential competition as possible. To accomplish this, you would go on the forums and scream at the top of your lungs BLOODY MURDER and hope that as many potential ASIC investors as possible get scared away from getting in on the same action you are.

So to sum up my arguments:
(1) BFL has done a crude, sloppy, amateurish job so far. And they probably will still deliver, eventually.
(2) It is in the financial interests of large-scale ASIC investors/owners/operators to scare away as much potential competition as possible.
(3) It is possible to simultaneously believe that BFL will deliver sort-of-as-promised AND call BFL scammers, terrible people, etc on public forums in order to accomplish the above.

So the inside joke here is that the biggest BFL "haters" might very well be the biggest believers in, and customers of, BFL.

You must have been high too, because it sounds like you had one of those retard epiphany that only stoners get.  Thinking themselves to have just unlocked the universes secrets.  When in reality youre dumber than a box of rocks.  Please go.

[atariguy]

True if BFL were the only game in town.  Far from it.

BFL is currently the only ASIC manufacturer still taking AND filling orders.

Really? Taking orders today, but filling orders from a year ago doesn't quite count.

On the other hand, I ordered some USB Block Eruptors from BTCGuild a couple weeks ago and took delivery of them last Friday.

[Anarchaos]

Avalon just filled 500K worth of chip orders. ASICMiner is flooding the market with USB miners.

Chips are next to useless to a Joe Sixpack who wants to plug and play. USB miners are adorable, but will be functionally obsolete to large-scale players by the time singles start being delivered en masse.

When in reality youre dumber than a box of rocks.  Please go.

I'm going to call your mom and tell her you're being mean on the internet, and you'll be grounded from the computer for a week at least.

On the other hand, I ordered some USB Block Eruptors from BTCGuild a couple weeks ago and took delivery of them last Friday.

Again, 330mh/s is cute, and one of these might make for a nice stocking stuffer for Christmas, but somehow I don't imagine someone rigging up hundreds of USB hubs to run a block erupter farm. 1 BFL single = 150 erupters, give or take.

Nope, many of them are just shills.

That's a guess, and I cannot prove it to be false. But you also cannot disprove that some of the BFL haters might be huge BFL clients.

[Kluge]

Avalon just filled 500K worth of chip orders. ASICMiner is flooding the market with USB miners.

Chips are next to useless to a Joe Sixpack who wants to plug and play.

Well, I guess 500k orders being filled is indeed pretty irrelevant if that huge "Joe Sixpack" market share of ASIC mining can't use them. 

[jhansen858]

I raised these same objections 2 months ago.  It makes you think the average age on this forum is 15 years old.  If you really look at it all the bitching is really 6 or 7 people who are very vocal and 6 or 7 people that just passively hate them and chime in when ever the main group posts.  Inaba straight up cancelled the orders of some of them which only made them super mad.  They have a life debt to destroy BFL at any cost.  The reality of the situation is that people are going to have their own opinion and look at the upside way more then the downside.  Plus the activity on this forum has really died down in the last two months so the more hardcore bitching crue is more persistent the the folks that are trying to discuss more positive topics.  This leaves a higher ratio of negativity here then what really exists out there. 

[atariguy]

On the other hand, I ordered some USB Block Eruptors from BTCGuild a couple weeks ago and took delivery of them last Friday.

Again, 330mh/s is cute, and one of these might make for a nice stocking stuffer for Christmas, but somehow I don't imagine someone rigging up hundreds of USB hubs to run a block erupter farm. 1 BFL single = 150 erupters, give or take.

My point was that I ordered them and actually received them in a reasonable amount of time. They're mining right now. Where is your BFL single right now?

[Ytterbium]

This is about the dumbest thing ever.  According to you, people who ordered from BFL don't want anyone else to buy equipment because it will make the difficulty go up and their investment less profitable.

The problem is that that's true of everyone who's bought mining equipment, regardless of vendor. If you ordered from Avalon, KnC, ASICMiner, whatever.

The only difference is that those people actually have their miners and are happly hashing away, or are expecting their orders to come in on time.

It's true that people who hate BFL the most are the people who invested with them, but they aren't pretending to hate them to scare off other people (if so, they would hate all the other companies as well).  They hate them because if BFL delivered on time, they'd be rich.  But because they haven't they're not. They've seen their dreams fade away because this company fucked up.

[Xian01]

This leaves a higher ratio of negativity here then what really exists out there. 

 Respectfully, I would direct you towards the official Butterfly Labs forums to see similar ratios of negativity.

[gdpone]

My crystal ball tells me BFL is pretty much out of all the pre-order money.  Now either they will prove if they are legit, and get a loan or do whatever they have to do, or they are going to cut and run.  Thus half of the people who think they are going to get a miner, wont.

[Ytterbium]

My crystal ball tells me BFL is pretty much out of all the pre-order money.  Now either they will prove if they are legit, and get a loan or do whatever they have to do, or they are going to cut and run.  Thus half of the people who think they are going to get a miner, wont.

Seems like it would be hard to run out of money when you're sitting on a huge pile of money generating machines.

[gdpone]

My crystal ball tells me BFL is pretty much out of all the pre-order money.  Now either they will prove if they are legit, and get a loan or do whatever they have to do, or they are going to cut and run.  Thus half of the people who think they are going to get a miner, wont.

Seems like it would be hard to run out of money when you're sitting on a huge pile of money generating machines.

I should say run out of "money were using to actually produce hardware" not "money were secretly stashing away when we cut and run".

[k9quaint]

My crystal ball tells me BFL is pretty much out of all the pre-order money.  Now either they will prove if they are legit, and get a loan or do whatever they have to do, or they are going to cut and run.  Thus half of the people who think they are going to get a miner, wont.

The love how the OP dismisses 165TH/s in hashing power shipped by Avalon as "cute" or "worthless to joe six pack".
The chips were shipped to projects assembling products with them, not to "joe six pack".

At this point, I suppose only willful ignorance (or a paycheck) could inspire a person to be pro-BFL.

[Starlightbreaker]

I've lurked this board for a few months now, and until recently, I could not explain the fanatical anti-BFL sentiment around here.

that's the problem.

lol.