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Author Topic: The End is near ... Bible fulfillment.  (Read 414 times)
BADecker
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August 17, 2018, 12:43:28 PM
 #21


Thanks for taking the time to explain. I understand that most of what your saying is common Christian doctrine. I still do see the answer to my question though. You previously wrote, "we made a pact with the devil that we would listen to him and obey his rules". How is this a pact? Now you call it a contract with him. I don't see in the scriptures that Eve promised to listen to the devil and obey his rules. She just believed (presumably) what he said and partook of the fruit. Maybe I just don't understand the words pact or contract, but I don't understand otherwise.

From Dictionary.com:

Pact - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pact?s=t:
1. an agreement, covenant, or compact: We made a pact not to argue any more.
2. an agreement or treaty between two or more nations: a pact between Germany and Italy.


Contract - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/contract?s=t:
1. an agreement between two or more parties for the doing or not doing of something specified.
2. an agreement enforceable by law.
3. the written form of such an agreement.


Notice the word agreement in both definitions.

If somebody says to you, "Don't eat the apple or you will die," and you agree with him, you won't eat the apple, except if you are suicidal.

If another guy comes along later and says, "You won't die if you eat the apple. Rather, you will become smarter," who knows if you agree with him until you tell us, right? But if you tell us by eating the apple rather than using words, and if you give some apple to your spouse who you love and would never hurt by causing his/her death, aren't you eating because you agreed with what the second guy said?

If neither of the guys ever said anything, who knows what you would do and how you would behave. You might eat the apple. You might not. But, no agreement in force.

But when you don't eat the apple because of what the first guy says, it is because you agree with him (agreement, pact, contract).

Agreement/pact/contract with the first Guy:
2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”

Action that showed that the agreement/pact/contract with the second guy was in force:
6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

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August 17, 2018, 09:21:54 PM
 #22

From Dictionary.com:

Pact - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pact?s=t:
1. an agreement, covenant, or compact: We made a pact not to argue any more.
2. an agreement or treaty between two or more nations: a pact between Germany and Italy.


Contract - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/contract?s=t:
1. an agreement between two or more parties for the doing or not doing of something specified.
2. an agreement enforceable by law.
3. the written form of such an agreement.


Notice the word agreement in both definitions.

If somebody says to you, "Don't eat the apple or you will die," and you agree with him, you won't eat the apple, except if you are suicidal.

If another guy comes along later and says, "You won't die if you eat the apple. Rather, you will become smarter," who knows if you agree with him until you tell us, right? But if you tell us by eating the apple rather than using words, and if you give some apple to your spouse who you love and would never hurt by causing his/her death, aren't you eating because you agreed with what the second guy said?

If neither of the guys ever said anything, who knows what you would do and how you would behave. You might eat the apple. You might not. But, no agreement in force.

But when you don't eat the apple because of what the first guy says, it is because you agree with him (agreement, pact, contract).

Agreement/pact/contract with the first Guy:
2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”

Action that showed that the agreement/pact/contract with the second guy was in force:
6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

Cool
I think you are making the mistake of thinking that agreement, pact and contract are exact synonyms. Here's what I found on dictionary.com too:
Quote
Agreement, bargain, compact, contract all suggest a binding arrangement between two or more parties. Agreement ranges in meaning from mutual understanding to binding obligation. Bargain applies particularly to agreements about buying and selling but also to haggling over terms in an agreement. Compact applies to treaties or alliances between nations or to solemn personal pledges. Contract is used especially in law and business for such agreements as are legally enforceable.

If you say you think Croatia will with the World Cup and I agree. You can say that we came to an agreement inasmuch as we both agreed on the same idea. To me, it seems completely out of place to say that we now have a contract or a pact. Believing something that somebody said does not mean that you have agreed to "listen to him and obey his rules". Sure, you could say you believed him in one thing and decided to do what he suggested you do. There is no scripture that suggests that Eve made any kind of contract to do what Satan wanted her to do in the future. It's one isolated incident.
papasunkoh88
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August 18, 2018, 03:31:51 PM
 #23

When God created the Earth for us, he gave us a whole lot of freedom. We could do anything we wanted except for the one law... don't eat of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the Garden. The whole Earth was free for us. But then we accepted the info from the serpent/devil as greater than that of God. By doing this, we made a pact with the devil that we would listen to him and obey his rules. In other words, we gave the Earth over to the ownership of the devil, at least as far as we were concerned.

If the devil had been somebody of little power, things might not be the same as they were. But check out the second half of Ezekiel 28 to see the power that God had given the devil. The devil was able, through our willing obedience of him, to effect great corruption in us at the core of our being. The result is that we no longer have any power on our own to turn from the devil.

The influence of the devil over us is so great that, if we use any of our strength to attempt to even believe in Jesus salvation on our own, we turn the Jesus salvation thing into corruption for ourselves. It is only through the working of the Holy Spirit in our hearts (our core being) that Jesus salvation can be worked in us successfully.

Since our corruption is this deep, and since we don't understand how such deep corruption works and what it does, we barely see why death is necessary for us, so that God can remake us in the New Heavens and the New Earth, where corruption can never happen again.

This whole operation is built on:
1. The gift of God to us so that we have life;
2. The various agreements we make, first with God... to have life, then with the devil to corrupt our life, and then with God again to bring us to His new gift of salvation (even though it is God Who effects this second agreement with Him, in our hearts).

None of this is as simple as you make it sound.

Cool
Sorry, if it seemed that I simplified things too much. I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject. Don't you think that an all-knowing God knew that "we" would partake of the fruit? Couldn't that have been part of His plan? I never heard this wording before: "we made a pact with the devil that we would listen to him and obey his rules". Would you mind giving a scriptural reference for that? Maybe I just missed it. I that that there was no way for us to truly be tempted without having evil on the earth. We need opposing forces, so we can make decisions. If good is all you have, they there's no choice to make.

The scripture reference is right in the beginning of Genesis... how Eve was tempted to eat the fruit.

God said don't eat the fruit because you will die.
The serpent (the devil talking through it) said you surely won't die.

Genesis 3:1-5:
1Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”

4“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

The problem started when the woman decided to believe the serpent rather than God. The contract was, essentially, "You believed me, so you get what I say." Since the contract with the devil was a lie, the contract was broken, because the woman did not get what the serpent said. But, the woman got what the contract with God said... death.

So, where is the good and where is the evil? The good is that God didn't want man to die. Rather, He wanted a relationship with mankind. But this relationship barely got started when mankind decided to die, and do away with the relationship. That is the evil.

When you look at the second half of Ezekiel 28, you can see the good that God placed in the devil, and the good reason why He made him this way... and how the devil changed himself from good to evil. Then, in John 8:44 we see when the devil started practicing his evil:
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

People don't clearly select who their parents are (even though they might in some unknown way). But we are all the children of Adam and Eve, who became children of the devil for a time... until God rescued them by promising the Savior.

The devil's contract with them was broken, because he didn't fulfill his part of the bargain. And the contract with God was completed by mankind making their choice... to die. The death contract is fulfilled in us, who, like our first parents, die.

The new contract with God is to believe the salvation of Jesus that God set in place. Man didn't have the power to make a new contract, but God did, because He still wanted the relationship. And, part of the new contract is God working the saving faith into the hearts those people who are too weak to reject faith. There is essentially no other way to say it. Strong will is strength against God's working faith in the heart... because the will of man still clings to both the devil's broken contract, and God's fulfilled contract of death.

The point of all this is that we will all rise in the resurrection. God's contract of new life overcomes the old contract of death. But since the contract is made to apply by believing - Eve believed the devil regarding the first contract - it will hold true by believing in God for Jesus salvation in the second contract. Those who don't believe God for the second contract will get a final death, the second death, as talked about in the Revelation. And this second death will be a lot more painful and disastrous than the first death when they put you in the ground.

Cool
Thanks for taking the time to explain. I understand that most of what your saying is common Christian doctrine. I still do see the answer to my question though. You previously wrote, "we made a pact with the devil that we would listen to him and obey his rules". How is this a pact? Now you call it a contract with him. I don't see in the scriptures that Eve promised to listen to the devil and obey his rules. She just believed (presumably) what he said and partook of the fruit. Maybe I just don't understand the words pact or contract, but I don't understand otherwise.
Although some bible verse are also deep the meaning and if you like to know the meaning better to consult the professional person to talk  about what  does it mean,but the lord says if you luck the knowleged in wisdom ask me,,and give it to you. And but back to your question ,the end is near ? I think base on the things happen to our sorrunding  yes,, its very near ,,but no one can know what the exact time or date only god will know.
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August 19, 2018, 03:43:04 PM
 #24

The end time is here but trust me there are billions of people who dont and wont believe in it. Even some christian cults said everything will end in this world no heaven or hell. And that God will bring up a paradise where even the latest sinner can enjoy with the righteous. the youth of our time sees knowing God or believing in God let alone the prophesies as old fashion, not for the new generation. This is supposed to be a time of reflection, soberness and returning to God because the signs are obvious the the coming of Christ is at hand and so is that of the Antichrist. If God has said so, It MUST come to pass. and whether men believe it or not will not have any effect as long as the gospel of Christ has covered the earth as started in the Bible.

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August 20, 2018, 02:17:20 PM
 #25

Everyday of life, every endings are happening. Yet who knows when will every humans shattered into death when real end comes. I must say, we lacked valid reasons and are still clueless of God's plans afterall. No one knows. But for me, every ending is just near by us, waiting.
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August 20, 2018, 09:36:09 PM
 #26

Everything that has a beginning, has an end. One day or another, the end will come. The real question for me though is to ask ourselves what have we done? Mankind is still young actually. We have 2 thousand years of civilisation. It is nothing compared to the time scale of the universe. But in those years, we manage to understand a lot. From the Greek philosophers to cryptocurrency, we have done a lot. Unfortunately, not enough to save ourselves from the end of times. In this prophecy, nations will leave in peace. This is good. I believe it will happen one day. The end is near but not soon.
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August 21, 2018, 01:50:30 PM
 #27

According to the bible too, you can have a small tree in flames talking to you

To be fair, this is completely possible...

The type of bush that was "burning" in the bible was the Acacia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acacia#Toxicity
Quote
Some species of acacia contain psychoactive alkaloids

Burning an Acacia bush would produce airborne psychoactive substances... if you stood downwind from a burning Acacia bush, it would be like tripping on LSD... this totally explains visions of talking to god, etc...

Richard Dawkins - "Science. It works, Bitches."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj3rAJUVrGQ
"Planes fly, cars drive, computers compute... If you base medicine off science, you cure people... If you base the design of planes on science they fly... If you base the design of rockets on science, they reach the moon... It works... bitches"
Moloch
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August 21, 2018, 01:59:35 PM
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 #28

If somebody says to you, "Don't eat the apple or you will die," and you agree with him, you won't eat the apple, except if you are suicidal.

According to the bible, God lied:

Genesis 2:16-17 - "And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”"

Except... neither of them died that day... so, God lied!
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August 21, 2018, 02:13:18 PM
 #29

No. People have been saying the end is nigh since the dawn of mankind and I wouldn't pay too much attention to the bible. According to the bible you should kill a lot of people for doing very minor things (working on sundays, talking back to your parents, homosexuals, adulterers, non-believers, non-virgins, entire cities if one person there worships the wrong god)


The bible says a lot of other silly stuff: https://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_kinds_of_bible_verses_christians_love_to_ignore_partner/



Growing up in the 90s, I remember all the apocalypse scare of thee time. Parents even freak out over Pokemons. A decade later it's now parent introducing their kids to the game.  Grin

Thing is, whether you believe such things or not, it is clear that such things are supposed to come "like a robber in the night". Insisting you can predict it is pride.
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August 21, 2018, 02:26:40 PM
 #30

No. People have been saying the end is nigh since the dawn of mankind and I wouldn't pay too much attention to the bible. According to the bible you should kill a lot of people for doing very minor things (working on sundays, talking back to your parents, homosexuals, adulterers, non-believers, non-virgins, entire cities if one person there worships the wrong god)


The bible says a lot of other silly stuff: https://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_kinds_of_bible_verses_christians_love_to_ignore_partner/



Growing up in the 90s, I remember all the apocalypse scare of thee time. Parents even freak out over Pokemons. A decade later it's now parent introducing their kids to the game.  Grin

Thing is, whether you believe such things or not, it is clear that such things are supposed to come "like a robber in the night". Insisting you can predict it is pride.

Jesus also said:

Matthew 24:34 - "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

Jesus promised he would return before the people listening to him died... that obviously did not happen... Jesus lied!
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August 23, 2018, 01:40:12 PM
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 #31


Growing up in the 90s, I remember all the apocalypse scare of thee time. Parents even freak out over Pokemons. A decade later it's now parent introducing their kids to the game.  Grin

Thing is, whether you believe such things or not, it is clear that such things are supposed to come "like a robber in the night". Insisting you can predict it is pride.

Jesus also said:

Matthew 24:34 - "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

Jesus promised he would return before the people listening to him died... that obviously did not happen... Jesus lied!

frantically searches for another interpretation

"Oh yes... It's a metaphor!"
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August 23, 2018, 02:34:02 PM
 #32

Bible prophecies are being fulfilled almost on a daily basis, in fact, the election of Donald Trump as America president tells me that the end is nearer than we think
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August 24, 2018, 01:15:42 PM
 #33

No. People have been saying the end is nigh since the dawn of mankind and I wouldn't pay too much attention to the bible. According to the bible you should kill a lot of people for doing very minor things (working on sundays, talking back to your parents, homosexuals, adulterers, non-believers, non-virgins, entire cities if one person there worships the wrong god)


The bible says a lot of other silly stuff: https://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_kinds_of_bible_verses_christians_love_to_ignore_partner/



Growing up in the 90s, I remember all the apocalypse scare of thee time. Parents even freak out over Pokemons. A decade later it's now parent introducing their kids to the game.  Grin

Thing is, whether you believe such things or not, it is clear that such things are supposed to come "like a robber in the night". Insisting you can predict it is pride.

In the 80's it was Dungeons and Dragons
In the 90's it was Pokemon
In the 00's it was Harry Potter

Christians are really scared of... something... not sure what exactly

Christians have been screaming "it is the end times" for 2000 years... this is nothing new

As for Christians being hypocrites and trying to predict the end even though the bible says don't do that... have you seen how many Christians have a tattoo?

BADecker
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August 25, 2018, 03:23:52 AM
 #34




This part of the Bible isn't talking to anybody alive now. It was talking to Ancient Israel up to the time they were destroyed around 70AD. However, it is a good law or rule. It would be good for people to recognize it and voluntarily do it.

Cool
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August 25, 2018, 04:38:22 PM
 #35

Luke 21:11: There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

Ring of Fire MAP: Earthquake BLITZ...






More than 70 earthquakes have rattled the Ring of Fire, a huge swathe of geologically active tectonic plates stretching from South America to Australia via the western United States and East Asia, in the past three days.

First Venezuela was struck by a major 7.3 earthquake last night, with citizens across northern South America and parts of the Caribbean reporting strong shaking.

In Venezuela's picturesque palm tree-dotted northern coast, residents said the long quake was terrifying.

The tremor made residents nauseous, caused lamps to swing and led people to dash into the streets.

The quake was also felt in the capital of Caracas, where residents rushed out of office buildings, as well as in nearby island nations like Trinidad and Tobago, and St. Lucia, to the west and north.

Residents in Trinidad and Tobago shared video online showing some damage to buildings.

Then Vanuatu, located in the western Pacific Ocean was hit by a strong 6.7 magnitude earthquake.

The shallow quake's epicentre was located just a few miles off the northern tip of sparsely populated Ambrym.


Read more at https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/08/no_author/ring-of-fire-map-earthquake-blitz-hits-pacific-triangulation-points-megaquake-fears/.


Cool
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October 28, 2018, 06:32:39 AM
 #36

Here are 10 signs of the end of the day starting close

1. Children become angry.

In other words, they dare to fight their parents.

They did not hesitate to say harshly and rebuked their parents.

2. Rain can burn. If we analyze it, this has happened. Now acid rain is becoming more frequent.
3. Bad people are scattered on the face of the earth.

4. Traitors are trusted

People will trust those who betray, while people who can be trusted are considered traitors.

5. The Righteous Are Considered Liars

The right person will be considered a liar and someone who tells lies is considered to be the right person.

6. People will break the relationship.

This has happened now where people prefer to stay home and watch television, and they are reluctant to visit neighbors.
7. Hypocrites will rule.

8. Bad people control trade.

9. Mosques are decorated but the human heart has become dirty.

So people who worship in the mosque do not do tazkiyah, even though the mosque is beautiful.

Believers become more insulted than ugly goats.

10. Homosexuality and lesbianism are widespread.

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October 28, 2018, 12:01:24 PM
 #37

-...-


According to the bible too, you can have a small tree in flames talking to you; you can kill entire civilizations; you can rape a woman freely; you can kill homosexuals; you can get into fire women and children for god to breathe their "aromas"; you can put all the species into a big ship; you can open the waters; you can actually walk in the water...
So maybe this is time to stop believing this book. I rather prefer to believe in the Lord of the Rings. This is a fantasy that suits me more.
Hmmm.any reference about you what so called BIBLE?Seems like yours are different from what we have

And why not respect others position on this matter?Can you tell us what section are you in,so we might have idea on how we understand you sentiment
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October 28, 2018, 05:02:06 PM
 #38

Nice link provided.  It motivates me to download bible and acquire more and more knowledge.  In it's name fathers are making fool of innocent people.

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October 28, 2018, 05:53:52 PM
 #39

with the latest development around the world, it is obvious the end is near, take for instance, America declaration of jerusalem as been the capital of israel, this is a prophecy fulfilled right in our eyes, but a lot of persons are not aware.

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October 28, 2018, 05:55:25 PM
 #40

No. People have been saying the end is nigh since the dawn of mankind and I wouldn't pay too much attention to the bible. According to the bible you should kill a lot of people for doing very minor things (working on sundays, talking back to your parents, homosexuals, adulterers, non-believers, non-virgins, entire cities if one person there worships the wrong god)


The bible says a lot of other silly stuff: https://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_kinds_of_bible_verses_christians_love_to_ignore_partner/



I would agree with this. The Bible is best understood metaphorically imo.
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