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Author Topic: Avalon 8 official specs released  (Read 6787 times)
fanatic26
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December 19, 2017, 06:50:53 PM
Merited by suchmoon (1)
 #1

https://canaan.io/product/avalonminer-821/

Hashrate    11.0 TH/s (RTHS)
Power Consumption     ≈ 1200W, +0% ~ +15% (with 93% PSU efficiency @ 25 C)
Power Efficiency    0.109 Joules/GigaHash at the wall
Chips    104 x A3210 16nm ASIC
Frequency    Smart Speed
Hash Error Rate    ~2% on chip validation
PSU output pins     NA
Network Connection    Through AUC3 + AUC3 I2c to AvalonMiner Controller
Controller    AvalonMiner Controller
AUC3    Each AUC3 may daisy-chain connect up to 5 devices
Operating Temperature    -5C-40C
Air-intake Temperature    -5 °C to 40°C
Cooling    Airform Cooling 1 rear fan 6000 RPM
Fan    1 X 12038 PWN
Noise    50-60db

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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December 19, 2017, 07:16:30 PM
 #2

Me likely a lot!
Now just need for them to set a price and project a date when we can get them from their distributors.

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December 19, 2017, 07:20:06 PM
 #3

Would love to get this Brand "A" miner instead of Brand "B"...!

The A-Team! Cheesy

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These aren't the Droids you're looking for: S5 & S7 (Sold), R4B2, R4B4 (RIP),S9-13.5 & S9r-11.5
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December 19, 2017, 07:54:15 PM
 #4

This is far below what they forecasted last month (14 TH/s @ 1300W). I was hoping we might get a little more, not 20+% less. I love Canaan, but this is making me re-think my purchase plan for next year.
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December 19, 2017, 08:08:46 PM
 #5

This is far below what they forecasted last month (14 TH/s @ 1300W). I was hoping we might get a little more, not 20+% less. I love Canaan, but this is making me re-think my purchase plan for next year.


other plan is to what...buy S9's at double the price? 
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December 19, 2017, 08:16:21 PM
 #6

Not bad, but not good enough. I suppose I should reserve judgement until we know pricing though.

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December 19, 2017, 09:11:08 PM
 #7

Nice spec and power draw but all depends on the price.
Not ordered Avalon before so if you were ordering a lot would you take their own sorcerer power supply or get your own in country?
rifleman74
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December 19, 2017, 09:12:43 PM
 #8

Nice spec and power draw but all depends on the price.
Not ordered Avalon before so if you were ordering a lot would you take their own sorcerer power supply or get your own in country?


I'd buy my own personally...rather have overkill than underkill.  YMMV
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December 19, 2017, 09:43:19 PM
 #9

If the price is right these units will sell out pretty darn fast. I'm hoping it'll be competitively priced against the S9 which is in pretty crazy price territory right now. No complaints about specs otherwise, hoping it'll have the usual Avalon quality.

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December 19, 2017, 09:45:37 PM
 #10

If the price is right these units will sell out pretty darn fast. I'm hoping it'll be competitively priced against the S9 which is in pretty crazy price territory right now. No complaints about specs otherwise, hoping it'll have the usual Avalon quality.

Competitive against the old S9 price or the new?  Grin
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December 19, 2017, 09:51:17 PM
 #11

This is far below what they forecasted last month (14 TH/s @ 1300W). I was hoping we might get a little more, not 20+% less. I love Canaan, but this is making me re-think my purchase plan for next year.


other plan is to what...buy S9's at double the price? 

Fair. The price increase on the S9 definitely impacts calculations:

  • S9 14000 GH/s @ 1372 Watts @ $2725 => .098 Watts/GH and $.195 price/GH
  • 821 11000 GH/s @ 1200 Watts @ $2150 => .109 Watts/GH and $.195 price/GH

Basically, at $2150 for the Avalon 821, you're paying approx the same cost per GH, and it's only slightly less energy efficient. Anything less than that would be a win over the latest batch of S9s.
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December 19, 2017, 09:56:53 PM
 #12

I'll buy one.
fanatic26
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December 19, 2017, 10:31:19 PM
 #13

The prelim specs I was given were 10TH for 1000w. I really wish that is what the final number would have been. People would have been able to run these easily on 110v at home.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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December 19, 2017, 11:07:27 PM
 #14

Are these usually good to go on the release, or are there "issues" with the software/components that need to be addressed?  Should I buy one from the first batch (if I am so lucky), or wait until the quirks are worked out?
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December 19, 2017, 11:30:08 PM
 #15

I'm guessing/hoping these might be the same as the 741 in terms of what you'll get for Hashrate, with any luck 11 will mean 11.5 or more.

Either way I'm pretty excited and glad to see at least for the time being there are no integrated PSU's.

Huge bonus here is that they are using the same AUC3 set up and cables so if you have spares from your 741's or need to get your hands on some for the EOL 741's they'll be available.


Can't wait to get an order in

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December 19, 2017, 11:31:55 PM
 #16

Nice spec and power draw but all depends on the price.
Not ordered Avalon before so if you were ordering a lot would you take their own sorcerer power supply or get your own in country?

Aren't the new Avalons coming with built in power supplies?


-M
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December 19, 2017, 11:54:51 PM
 #17

Nice spec and power draw but all depends on the price.
Not ordered Avalon before so if you were ordering a lot would you take their own sorcerer power supply or get your own in country?

Aren't the new Avalons coming with built in power supplies?


-M

No, that was just the special 761 they made for China only.
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December 20, 2017, 12:03:33 AM
 #18


Fair. The price increase on the S9 definitely impacts calculations:

  • S9 14000 GH/s @ 1372 Watts @ $2725 => .098 Watts/GH and $.195 price/GH
  • 821 11000 GH/s @ 1200 Watts @ $2150 => .109 Watts/GH and $.195 price/GH

Basically, at $2150 for the Avalon 821, you're paying approx the same cost per GH, and it's only slightly less energy efficient. Anything less than that would be a win over the latest batch of S9s.

Mikez_nj, where did you find the Avalon 821 price to be $2,150? On their web page, they are only selling in bulk for 60 units, but without price disclosure.

https://canaan.io/shop/
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December 20, 2017, 12:12:41 AM
 #19

I think he was just speculating on what the price might be based on the increased S9 price we saw today.
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December 20, 2017, 12:15:56 AM
 #20

If they price these comparably with S9s, I am going Canaan.  We've got to let our buying power do the talking and break up this monopoly. 
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December 20, 2017, 12:25:01 AM
 #21

Will you be able to hook up an A8 to an existing A7?
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December 20, 2017, 12:35:09 AM
 #22

A little underwhelming but like anything it comes down to price. Will be interesting to see how they approach it on that front. But like everyone has said it's nice to move away from Bitmain a bit more
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December 20, 2017, 03:47:55 AM
 #23

even if this was $3000 usd a unit id buy this out of spite. i hate bitmain. there a bunch of pricks.
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December 20, 2017, 04:06:00 AM
 #24

https://www.blokforge.com/product/avalon-761/

BlokForge is selling the 761 overseas for US$1400 and it has the integrated power-supply

I would venture a guess that the 821 sans power-supply might come in at around US$1500.

BlockForge's prices are also a bit higher than Minerwarez as applied to the 721's

https://minerwarez.com/collections/new-equipment/products/avalonminer-741

https://www.blokforge.com/product/avalon-741/

$898 at Minerwarez $1200 at BlockForge

So

$1500 for an 821 is mighty fine!
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December 20, 2017, 07:02:35 AM
 #25

Soo question about its algorithm, i understand that can mine BTC.. BTC is SHA256, using common sense, it can mine any coin that is SHA256 right? If that is possible, that means all coins from this list can be mined: http://prntscr.com/hpwx3e

Or did they made it "STRICTLY BTC" ? .. I'm not sure how would they do that thou, can someone please elaborate something on this topic?
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December 20, 2017, 07:46:47 AM
 #26

Soo question about its algorithm, i understand that can mine BTC.. BTC is SHA256, using common sense, it can mine any coin that is SHA256 right? If that is possible, that means all coins from this list can be mined: http://prntscr.com/hpwx3e

Or did they made it "STRICTLY BTC" ? .. I'm not sure how would they do that thou, can someone please elaborate something on this topic?

Hi Cast,

in theory, all sha256 miners can mine btc and alt coins that uses sha256 algorithm, just connect to the pool you wanna mine.

not speaking from experience though  Grin
 

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December 20, 2017, 08:06:09 AM
 #27

Hashrate 11.0 TH / s(RTHS)
功耗≈1200W ,+ 0%〜+ 15%(在25°C时
电源效率为93%)电源效率0.109焦耳/千兆Hash在墙上
芯片104 x A3210 16纳米ASIC
频率智能速度
哈希错误率〜2 %芯片验证
PSU输出pins不适用
网络连接通过AUC3 + AUC3 I2c到AvalonMiner控制器
控制器AvalonMiner控制器
AUC3每个AUC3菊花链可连接多达5个设备
工作温度-5C-40C
进气温度-5°C至40°C
冷却气流冷却1后风扇6000 RPM
风扇1 X 12038 PWN
噪音50-60db
How much?

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December 20, 2017, 09:14:33 AM
 #28

Hashrate 11.0 TH / s(RTHS)
功耗≈1200W ,+ 0%〜+ 15%(在25°C时
电源效率为93%)电源效率0.109焦耳/千兆Hash在墙上
芯片104 x A3210 16纳米ASIC
频率智能速度
哈希错误率〜2 %芯片验证
PSU输出pins不适用
网络连接通过AUC3 + AUC3 I2c到AvalonMiner控制器
控制器AvalonMiner控制器
AUC3每个AUC3菊花链可连接多达5个设备
工作温度-5C-40C
进气温度-5°C至40°C
冷却气流冷却1后风扇6000 RPM
风扇1 X 12038 PWN
噪音50-60db
How much?


nobody has the price for this A8 yet.

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December 20, 2017, 11:07:26 AM
 #29

Hashrate 11.0 TH / s(RTHS)
功耗≈1200W ,+ 0%〜+ 15%(在25°C时
电源效率为93%)电源效率0.109焦耳/千兆Hash在墙上
芯片104 x A3210 16纳米ASIC
频率智能速度
哈希错误率〜2 %芯片验证
PSU输出pins不适用
网络连接通过AUC3 + AUC3 I2c到AvalonMiner控制器
控制器AvalonMiner控制器
AUC3每个AUC3菊花链可连接多达5个设备
工作温度-5C-40C
进气温度-5°C至40°C
冷却气流冷却1后风扇6000 RPM
风扇1 X 12038 PWN
噪音50-60db
How much?


nobody has the price for this A8 yet.


Any update or press release on the miner
Ebang have launched 3 new mines
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1737602.msg26654656#msg26654656
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December 20, 2017, 11:21:17 AM
 #30

I'll buy one.

Are we actually able to buy one direct from avalon? Or do we need to go through their distributors?
I wanna try one, and diversify my miners...but yeah, depends on price.

Selling at 20% of coupon price aka 80% off.
Selling 2 bitmain 125 USD coupons, 18 bitmain 100 USD coupon, 1 bitmain 50 USD coupon

PM me
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December 20, 2017, 11:43:29 AM
 #31

The russian distributor seems to have it up for sale cash on delivery? strange

http://market.newmining.ru/
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December 20, 2017, 11:53:22 AM
 #32

The russian distributor seems to have it up for sale cash on delivery? strange

http://market.newmining.ru/

Is it official distributor?

I will need the asian distributor.  Do distributors get it later or same time as main guy?
We cannot buy 1 or a few pieces direct, right

Selling at 20% of coupon price aka 80% off.
Selling 2 bitmain 125 USD coupons, 18 bitmain 100 USD coupon, 1 bitmain 50 USD coupon

PM me
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December 20, 2017, 11:54:13 AM
 #33

That looks like its around 3800$ is that possible? Or that is just distributors price...its seems like its high...
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December 20, 2017, 11:57:04 AM
 #34

The russian distributor seems to have it up for sale cash on delivery? strange

http://market.newmining.ru/

Is it official distributor?

I will need the asian distributor.  Do distributors get it later or same time as main guy?
We cannot buy 1 or a few pieces direct, right

They are listed as official. Got the link from canaan's distributor page.
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December 20, 2017, 12:01:36 PM
 #35

The russian distributor seems to have it up for sale cash on delivery? strange

http://market.newmining.ru/

Is it official distributor?

I will need the asian distributor.  Do distributors get it later or same time as main guy?
We cannot buy 1 or a few pieces direct, right

Did i see right? 210,000 rouble. Thats 3,500 usd for that distributor?
Is that in roubles? I am nt familliar with russian currency.
Do distributors mark up alot or is it around same price.

Selling at 20% of coupon price aka 80% off.
Selling 2 bitmain 125 USD coupons, 18 bitmain 100 USD coupon, 1 bitmain 50 USD coupon

PM me
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December 20, 2017, 12:02:25 PM
 #36

The russian distributor seems to have it up for sale cash on delivery? strange

http://market.newmining.ru/

Is it official distributor?

I will need the asian distributor.  Do distributors get it later or same time as main guy?
We cannot buy 1 or a few pieces direct, right

Did i see right? 210,000 rouble. Thats 3,500 usd for that distributor?
Is that in roubles? I am nt familliar with russian currency.
Do distributors mark up alot or is it around same price.


He needs to pay shipping and customs also
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December 20, 2017, 12:06:11 PM
 #37

The russian distributor seems to have it up for sale cash on delivery? strange

http://market.newmining.ru/

Is it official distributor?

I will need the asian distributor.  Do distributors get it later or same time as main guy?
We cannot buy 1 or a few pieces direct, right

Did i see right? 210,000 rouble. Thats 3,500 usd for that distributor?
Is that in roubles? I am nt familliar with russian currency.
Do distributors mark up alot or is it around same price.


He needs to pay shipping and customs also

U mean distributor pays value added tax and when they ship to u, u pay value added tax again?? Is that right?

Canaan will not sell 1-2 pieces direct?

Selling at 20% of coupon price aka 80% off.
Selling 2 bitmain 125 USD coupons, 18 bitmain 100 USD coupon, 1 bitmain 50 USD coupon

PM me
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December 20, 2017, 12:08:05 PM
 #38

The russian distributor seems to have it up for sale cash on delivery? strange

http://market.newmining.ru/

Is it official distributor?

I will need the asian distributor.  Do distributors get it later or same time as main guy?
We cannot buy 1 or a few pieces direct, right

Did i see right? 210,000 rouble. Thats 3,500 usd for that distributor?
Is that in roubles? I am nt familliar with russian currency.
Do distributors mark up alot or is it around same price.


He needs to pay shipping and customs also

U mean distributor pays value added tax and when they ship to u, u pay value added tax again?? Is that right?

Canaan will not sell 1-2 pieces direct?

I don't think they ship outside russia anyway, but Canaans just made the announcment today without giving a price but they have the price.
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December 20, 2017, 12:11:03 PM
 #39

The russian distributor seems to have it up for sale cash on delivery? strange

http://market.newmining.ru/

Is it official distributor?

I will need the asian distributor.  Do distributors get it later or same time as main guy?
We cannot buy 1 or a few pieces direct, right

Did i see right? 210,000 rouble. Thats 3,500 usd for that distributor?
Is that in roubles? I am nt familliar with russian currency.
Do distributors mark up alot or is it around same price.


He needs to pay shipping and customs also

U mean distributor pays value added tax and when they ship to u, u pay value added tax again?? Is that right?

Canaan will not sell 1-2 pieces direct?

I don't think they ship outside russia anyway, but Canaans just made the announcment today without giving a price but they have the price.

I see. This way no double tax. But i guess those distributors that are in the same country as canaan can ship interationally too...no double tax after all.

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December 20, 2017, 12:51:02 PM
 #40

The russian distributor seems to have it up for sale cash on delivery? strange

http://market.newmining.ru/

Is it official distributor?

I will need the asian distributor.  Do distributors get it later or same time as main guy?
We cannot buy 1 or a few pieces direct, right

Did i see right? 210,000 rouble. Thats 3,500 usd for that distributor?
Is that in roubles? I am nt familliar with russian currency.
Do distributors mark up alot or is it around same price.




He needs to pay shipping and customs also

U mean distributor pays value added tax and when they ship to u, u pay value added tax again?? Is that right?

Canaan will not sell 1-2 pieces direct?

No Canaan will not sell small amounts of units directly to consumers.
In fact they aren't even taking on any more distributors right now.
Apparently there is 10 times more demand than there is supply for the initial run.

If I can get 2 - 4 units from a distributor by the end of January I will consider myself very lucky.

Crossing my fingers and keeping my eyes peeled.
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December 20, 2017, 12:53:33 PM
 #41

Did you all see this info?

https://canaan.io/821annoucement/

Skip to content
 Canaan
MENU
Happy Holidays ,

Yesterday in  Hangzhou we announced our Avalon 821, and laid out the roadmap for the 841, 861, 921 and Avalon 10 series.

Avalon 741 is end of life: the last batch is being produced and is promised to customers/distributors who will receiving their final shipments shortly.

Avalon 761, our solution with integrated PSU  is likewise End of Life. The last batch is being built and will ship out in early Jan.

821:  The Avalon 821 will ship at 11 TH (terahash) and 1200 Watts for a power efficiency of 109Watts per TH, a great improvement over the 741 which was rated at 150 Watts/TH.

841: the Avalon 841 will ship at 13TH and 1200 Watts for a power efficiency of  92 Watts/TH. I expect this to be a Q2 Product.

It’s too early to talk about the 861 (integrated PSU), the 921 and 10 series, but 2018 promises to be a great year.

821 Prices:   We have not yet settled on price for 821, but it will be driven by market forces and the price of Bitcoin. Demand for product is more than 10X of the supply and the pricing in the spot market clearly reflects this. As well, the price of BTC has drawn in many new customers. As soon as I have pricing I will communicate it to you. Please do not ask for it, we will tell everyone at the same time.

Ship dates: After we finish the last 741 and 761,  the 821 will go into production in January. I wish I had exact dates, but as of today I only have estimates. We should be able to ship to a small number of customers in late January. We will contact the customers who have been selected for January shipment, so please be patient.

In February and March volumes will increase, but be advised that February has Chinese New Year and we will shut down between the 14th and the 23rd.

Distributors:  We are no longer accepting applications for resellers. Given the constraints in supply, we will only add a small number of new distributors. Hopefully in Q2 we will be able to open up the opportunity. If you have signed up, we will be going over our list and making our selections.

New Forecast:  When we have pricing we will be asking everyone to do a new forecast based on the pricing. A forecast is your estimate of how many machines you will order. Do not simply put down a large number to get our attention. We select customers both large and small and if you do not order what you forecast your entire order will be cancelled.

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December 20, 2017, 02:13:31 PM
 #42

Did you all see this info?

https://canaan.io/821annoucement/

Skip to content
 Canaan
MENU
Happy Holidays ,

Yesterday in  Hangzhou we announced our Avalon 821, and laid out the roadmap for the 841, 861, 921 and Avalon 10 series.

Avalon 741 is end of life: the last batch is being produced and is promised to customers/distributors who will receiving their final shipments shortly.

Avalon 761, our solution with integrated PSU  is likewise End of Life. The last batch is being built and will ship out in early Jan.

821:  The Avalon 821 will ship at 11 TH (terahash) and 1200 Watts for a power efficiency of 109Watts per TH, a great improvement over the 741 which was rated at 150 Watts/TH.

841: the Avalon 841 will ship at 13TH and 1200 Watts for a power efficiency of  92 Watts/TH. I expect this to be a Q2 Product.

It’s too early to talk about the 861 (integrated PSU), the 921 and 10 series, but 2018 promises to be a great year.

821 Prices:   We have not yet settled on price for 821, but it will be driven by market forces and the price of Bitcoin. Demand for product is more than 10X of the supply and the pricing in the spot market clearly reflects this. As well, the price of BTC has drawn in many new customers. As soon as I have pricing I will communicate it to you. Please do not ask for it, we will tell everyone at the same time.

Ship dates: After we finish the last 741 and 761,  the 821 will go into production in January. I wish I had exact dates, but as of today I only have estimates. We should be able to ship to a small number of customers in late January. We will contact the customers who have been selected for January shipment, so please be patient.

In February and March volumes will increase, but be advised that February has Chinese New Year and we will shut down between the 14th and the 23rd.

Distributors:  We are no longer accepting applications for resellers. Given the constraints in supply, we will only add a small number of new distributors. Hopefully in Q2 we will be able to open up the opportunity. If you have signed up, we will be going over our list and making our selections.

New Forecast:  When we have pricing we will be asking everyone to do a new forecast based on the pricing. A forecast is your estimate of how many machines you will order. Do not simply put down a large number to get our attention. We select customers both large and small and if you do not order what you forecast your entire order will be cancelled.

Company. Press. Twitter. Facebook. Github.
Copyright © 2016 Canaan Creative CO., LTD
All Rights Reserved. Legal.
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Register & Login.
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821:  The Avalon 821 will ship at 11 TH (terahash) and 1200 Watts for a power efficiency of 109Watts per TH, a great improvement over the 741 which was rated at 150 Watts/TH.


Well  it is nice  since it will still be able to run on a usa 15 amp 120 volt circuit


but it will be priced high based on what he said.

maybe 2000

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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December 20, 2017, 02:21:41 PM
 #43

Did you all see this info?

https://canaan.io/821annoucement/

Skip to content
 Canaan
MENU
Happy Holidays ,

Yesterday in  Hangzhou we announced our Avalon 821, and laid out the roadmap for the 841, 861, 921 and Avalon 10 series.

Avalon 741 is end of life: the last batch is being produced and is promised to customers/distributors who will receiving their final shipments shortly.

Avalon 761, our solution with integrated PSU  is likewise End of Life. The last batch is being built and will ship out in early Jan.

821:  The Avalon 821 will ship at 11 TH (terahash) and 1200 Watts for a power efficiency of 109Watts per TH, a great improvement over the 741 which was rated at 150 Watts/TH.

841: the Avalon 841 will ship at 13TH and 1200 Watts for a power efficiency of  92 Watts/TH. I expect this to be a Q2 Product.

It’s too early to talk about the 861 (integrated PSU), the 921 and 10 series, but 2018 promises to be a great year.

821 Prices:   We have not yet settled on price for 821, but it will be driven by market forces and the price of Bitcoin. Demand for product is more than 10X of the supply and the pricing in the spot market clearly reflects this. As well, the price of BTC has drawn in many new customers. As soon as I have pricing I will communicate it to you. Please do not ask for it, we will tell everyone at the same time.

Ship dates: After we finish the last 741 and 761,  the 821 will go into production in January. I wish I had exact dates, but as of today I only have estimates. We should be able to ship to a small number of customers in late January. We will contact the customers who have been selected for January shipment, so please be patient.

In February and March volumes will increase, but be advised that February has Chinese New Year and we will shut down between the 14th and the 23rd.

Distributors:  We are no longer accepting applications for resellers. Given the constraints in supply, we will only add a small number of new distributors. Hopefully in Q2 we will be able to open up the opportunity. If you have signed up, we will be going over our list and making our selections.

New Forecast:  When we have pricing we will be asking everyone to do a new forecast based on the pricing. A forecast is your estimate of how many machines you will order. Do not simply put down a large number to get our attention. We select customers both large and small and if you do not order what you forecast your entire order will be cancelled.

Company. Press. Twitter. Facebook. Github.
Copyright © 2016 Canaan Creative CO., LTD
All Rights Reserved. Legal.
For Support
Register & Login.
SEARCH
Search for:
Search …
 


821:  The Avalon 821 will ship at 11 TH (terahash) and 1200 Watts for a power efficiency of 109Watts per TH, a great improvement over the 741 which was rated at 150 Watts/TH.


Well  it is nice  since it will still be able to run on a usa 15 amp 120 volt circuit


but it will be priced high based on what he said.

maybe 2000

Hey Phil - does this mean I don't have to put in 240 service? Or will the 8 series still be more power efficient if run on 240
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December 20, 2017, 02:40:06 PM
 #44


Fair. The price increase on the S9 definitely impacts calculations:

  • S9 14000 GH/s @ 1372 Watts @ $2725 => .098 Watts/GH and $.195 price/GH
  • 821 11000 GH/s @ 1200 Watts @ $2150 => .109 Watts/GH and $.195 price/GH

Basically, at $2150 for the Avalon 821, you're paying approx the same cost per GH, and it's only slightly less energy efficient. Anything less than that would be a win over the latest batch of S9s.

Mikez_nj, where did you find the Avalon 821 price to be $2,150? On their web page, they are only selling in bulk for 60 units, but without price disclosure.

https://canaan.io/shop/

I don't have a price. My point was that $2150 is approximately the inflection point where the value is the same as the S9 (solely based on the numbers) - so anything below that is a win over the S9.

The announcement this morning makes this much better.
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December 20, 2017, 03:45:11 PM
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821 Prices:   We have not yet settled on price for 821, but it will be driven by market forces and the price of Bitcoin. Demand for product is more than 10X of the supply and the pricing in the spot market clearly reflects this. As well, the price of BTC has drawn in many new customers. As soon as I have pricing I will communicate it to you. Please do not ask for it, we will tell everyone at the same time.



821:  The Avalon 821 will ship at 11 TH (terahash) and 1200 Watts for a power efficiency of 109Watts per TH, a great improvement over the 741 which was rated at 150 Watts/TH.


Well  it is nice  since it will still be able to run on a usa 15 amp 120 volt circuit


but it will be priced high based on what he said.

maybe 2000

You can count on that one!!!

There was a lot of thought put into the wording of that release and breaking it down might help some folks prepare for whats coming!

When a company tells you there's a 10x supply/demand ratio skew, simple economics come into play.  Meaning in an imperfect market where demand greatly exceeds supply (like 10x!!) price is always set by the most optimistic of buyers.  It will always go to the 1 in 10 person willing to pay the most.  Anything less is money left on the table and NO company ever wants that, trust me on that one!  It's also important to notice their mention of spot price.  Their telling us they know what in hand units sell for so guess what, they want that margin for themselves and their distys.  No surprise really as this is what all companies do...

Lastly the mention of bitcoin price in determining price, if coins stay high so do machine prices, simple as that.  I don't see them caring much about being close to Bitmain in $/TH.  Of course the danger is getting to greedy and that is always the fine line.  Hehe but at 10x there's a lot of room to play and find out Smiley

You can consider that paragraph as the lube for whats coming  Wink

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December 20, 2017, 04:45:24 PM
 #46

At the high value of BTC (currently... it's fallen 10% today, though), I would expect a price from distributors of $2000-$2200. Minerwarez and Blokforge are both listing the out of stock 741s over $1000. The 8 is MUCH more efficient and will fetch a premium.

I'll buy as many as I can get my hands on, provided the price isn't insane (BTC is falling, but BCH is surging over $4000 USD at the moment).

Priced at or near the cost of the Bitmain S9, I will go with Canaan for the simplicity of dealing with a Distributor in the US or Canada.

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December 20, 2017, 05:43:08 PM
 #47

That's cool! I guess, it will be available for orders this spring?
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December 20, 2017, 09:29:52 PM
 #48

Outstanding news.  I think the age of sha256 miners being less than $2000 are on the back burner for now. At 2k the 821 is a great deal IMO. 
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December 20, 2017, 11:27:08 PM
 #49

This is far below what they forecasted last month (14 TH/s @ 1300W). I was hoping we might get a little more, not 20+% less. I love Canaan, but this is making me re-think my purchase plan for next year.

 I like it a lot better from the "not insane can only use server or VERY HIGH PRICE atx" power supply standpoint.

 Perhaps the posted spec is a BASE spec and you can overclock to get to the 14/1300 level?


 (edit) just noticed the 841 part of that one post - 13 at 1200 is pretty close to 14/1300, but I bet they have to use more chips running at lower voltage (and probably end up at a HIGHER COST) to get there vs the 821.

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December 21, 2017, 02:32:14 AM
 #50

So we are going to be seeing these sell out within minutes I take it?  I hope the servers for the distributors are ready to handle the influx of incoming traffic. 


I will be blessed to get a hold of one when they hit the market.  Of course you will have your resellers profiting from this as well, so it will be interesting how inflated prices will be on the secondary market. 

It would be great if BTC would take a pretty hard down swing just prior to the release  Grin
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December 21, 2017, 03:14:41 AM
 #51

so the avalon 8 will be using the socerer psu? and does that connect to 220v only or 110v?
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December 21, 2017, 04:46:57 PM
 #52

so the avalon 8 will be using the socerer psu? and does that connect to 220v only or 110v?

The avalon 8 does not come with a PSU

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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December 21, 2017, 05:34:14 PM
 #53

so the avalon 8 will be using the socerer psu? and does that connect to 220v only or 110v?

The avalon 8 does not come with a PSU

yeah understand that, so is the sorcerer the best psu to use with it? sorry im a newb to avalon only know a lot about bitmain stuff so far
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December 21, 2017, 05:48:02 PM
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yeah understand that, so is the sorcerer the best psu to use with it? sorry im a newb to avalon only know a lot about bitmain stuff so far

The sorcerer PSU, is just the one that they offer and is spec'd to run 1 of the 821's.

You can look for other server PSU providers to find something that will also suit your needs, especially if you want to run 2 units off 1 PSU. If you search the hardware threads you will probably find some good advice on what would suit you best.

I've picked mine up from Amitylabs ebay store, I've heard others say good things about parallelminer.

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December 21, 2017, 05:55:46 PM
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yeah understand that, so is the sorcerer the best psu to use with it? sorry im a newb to avalon only know a lot about bitmain stuff so far

The sorcerer PSU, is just the one that they offer and is spec'd to run 1 of the 821's.

You can look for other server PSU providers to find something that will also suit your needs, especially if you want to run 2 units off 1 PSU. If you search the hardware threads you will probably find some good advice on what would suit you best.

I've picked mine up from Amitylabs ebay store, I've heard others say good things about parallelminer.

yeah saw parallel miner looks pretty good, does the 821 run optimally on 220v or 110v? thank you man
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December 21, 2017, 09:26:46 PM
 #56

The 821 runs optimally on +12VDC.

 The power supply that FEEDS it might require 220 VAC, or might be happy with 110 OR 220 but will run a little more efficiently at 220.


 I expect the 821 to end up being ballpark $3000, possibly as LOW as $2500, based on current S9 pricing.
 Caanan/Avalon has always had a price premium compared to whatever Bitmain product they're closest too, unless they were a TON lower on hashrate, and I don't see them pricing the 821 much if ANY lower than S9 since they're fairly close on hashrate and efficiency.
 They might MATCH the price of the S9 due to the hashrate difference, but they won't go lower - Bitmain will tolerate "same price" most likely because they can point at the higher hashrate AND slightly better efficiency, but a lower price would probably prompt a price war.


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December 21, 2017, 10:05:20 PM
 #57

The 821 runs optimally on +12VDC.

 The power supply that FEEDS it might require 220 VAC, or might be happy with 110 OR 220 but will run a little more efficiently at 220.


 I expect the 821 to end up being ballpark $3000, possibly as LOW as $2500, based on current S9 pricing.
 Caanan/Avalon has always had a price premium compared to whatever Bitmain product they're closest too, unless they were a TON lower on hashrate, and I don't see them pricing the 821 much if ANY lower than S9 since they're fairly close on hashrate and efficiency.
 They might MATCH the price of the S9 due to the hashrate difference, but they won't go lower - Bitmain will tolerate "same price" most likely because they can point at the higher hashrate AND slightly better efficiency, but a lower price would probably prompt a price war.



ty
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December 21, 2017, 10:31:36 PM
 #58

The 821 runs optimally on +12VDC.

 The power supply that FEEDS it might require 220 VAC, or might be happy with 110 OR 220 but will run a little more efficiently at 220.


 I expect the 821 to end up being ballpark $3000, possibly as LOW as $2500, based on current S9 pricing.
 Caanan/Avalon has always had a price premium compared to whatever Bitmain product they're closest too, unless they were a TON lower on hashrate, and I don't see them pricing the 821 much if ANY lower than S9 since they're fairly close on hashrate and efficiency.
 They might MATCH the price of the S9 due to the hashrate difference, but they won't go lower - Bitmain will tolerate "same price" most likely because they can point at the higher hashrate AND slightly better efficiency, but a lower price would probably prompt a price war.



Agreed.
I think the 821 will be between $2500 and $3,000.
Very close to the S9 price.
Bitmain have just shown how that price point is acceptable to consumers by selling out so quickly.

I don't think a price war will happen yet though because the demand is way too high for ASIC miners and they don't need to fight for sales....They can't make enough inventory to get even close to demand.
I just read on another post that Ebang's next miner will be 14TH/s priced at $3680 with minimum order of 100 units.
I don't know if that price is correct but if it is and they sell out very quickly that will send a message to Bitmain and Canaan that we still havent reached the roof on the price people are willing to pay.

Just my two cents. Smiley
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December 21, 2017, 10:36:58 PM
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We still need more manufacturers.
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December 21, 2017, 10:38:35 PM
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Will the Controller for Avalon Miner 741 work with the 821 and Will you be able to hook up an A8 to an existing A7?
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December 21, 2017, 10:47:26 PM
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We still need more manufacturers.

I look forward to that day!
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December 21, 2017, 11:07:32 PM
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Bitmain have just shown how that price point is acceptable to consumers by selling out so quickly.


I am pretty sure this was exactly the impression they wanted to give by selling out fast for whatever reason  Wink
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December 21, 2017, 11:17:59 PM
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 I expect the 821 to end up being ballpark $3000, possibly as LOW as $2500, based on current S9 pricing.
 Caanan/Avalon has always had a price premium compared to whatever Bitmain product they're closest too, unless they were a TON lower on hashrate, and I don't see them pricing the 821 much if ANY lower than S9 since they're fairly close on hashrate and efficiency.
 They might MATCH the price of the S9 due to the hashrate difference, but they won't go lower - Bitmain will tolerate "same price" most likely because they can point at the higher hashrate AND slightly better efficiency, but a lower price would probably prompt a price war.


I mean they told us how they were formulating the price in the press release.  When I plug "my opinion of the numbers" into their "formula" (which by the way their formula makes perfect business sense) I come up with a ballpark of $3500 USD at the retail/disty level.  I see maybe 3k/3.25k for bulk 60 unit pallets.  

If coin price doesn't shrink to much farther, from what I am reading in their release that number makes sense.  And honestly it will sell out FAST even at $3500, just look at the comments in some of the threads and how the newbs will pay "anything for them".  If we believe they have a 10x supply/demand problem, coin price stabilizes high, they consider spot pricing of gear then $3500 would be my starting point!

We're talking about millions of dollars in sales if these companies are not employing professional sales people they are making a huge mistake.  If they are the price is well thought out and internal numbers are analyzed and extrapolated to project a multitude of scenarios.  This information will give them the best possible chance to maximize profits.  When a professional sales exec has a 10x supply/demand ratio skew he is having a wet dream, trust me!  He/She will make the most of it if he/she is any fucking good!

If coin price stays high expect 3k to be the best possible scenario.  If coin prices go up whoa watch out, 4k will sound cheap. IMO
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December 21, 2017, 11:23:52 PM
 #64


Bitmain have just shown how that price point is acceptable to consumers by selling out so quickly.


I am pretty sure this was exactly the impression they wanted to give by selling out fast for whatever reason  Wink

I think your right.
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December 22, 2017, 12:43:17 AM
 #65

Will the Controller for Avalon Miner 741 work with the 821 and Will you be able to hook up an A8 to an existing A7?




At this point no one knows for sure.  The manufacturer has not stated anything about cross compatibility with their other platforms. 
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December 22, 2017, 01:54:09 AM
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Bitmain have just shown how that price point is acceptable to consumers by selling out so quickly.


I am pretty sure this was exactly the impression they wanted to give by selling out fast for whatever reason  Wink

I don't know, I haven't been in the mining game as long as some of you, but they didn't seem to sell out fast to me.  Huh

A few months ago, when they released a new batch of any miner, their website ground to a halt, and you could sit there refreshing for 1-2 hours, not actually add anything to your cart, and it would be sold out by the time the website was actually responding. The past few batches sit around for hours and hours (and sometimes days/weeks).

And while that price point might be acceptable, the 821 isn't the S9. The S9 has it beat on Watt/TH (by a little) and Price/TH (by a LOT) if they price it the same as the S9... for a machine with 20% less output. Honestly, if the 821 is over $2200, I would be shocked. 
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December 22, 2017, 02:28:11 AM
 #67


Bitmain have just shown how that price point is acceptable to consumers by selling out so quickly.


I am pretty sure this was exactly the impression they wanted to give by selling out fast for whatever reason  Wink

I don't know, I haven't been in the mining game as long as some of you, but they didn't seem to sell out fast to me.  Huh

A few months ago, when they released a new batch of any miner, their website ground to a halt, and you could sit there refreshing for 1-2 hours, not actually add anything to your cart, and it would be sold out by the time the website was actually responding. The past few batches sit around for hours and hours (and sometimes days/weeks).

And while that price point might be acceptable, the 821 isn't the S9. The S9 has it beat on Watt/TH (by a little) and Price/TH (by a LOT) if they price it the same as the S9... for a machine with 20% less output. Honestly, if the 821 is over $2200, I would be shocked. 
You are not counting reliability and customer service. Bitmain miners are a piece of crap and dealing with bitmain is a pain. I wouldn't mind paying 20% more for a canaan product. Unfortunately it will probably be much more expensive than that.
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December 22, 2017, 02:42:27 AM
 #68

Will the Controller for Avalon Miner 741 work with the 821 and Will you be able to hook up an A8 to an existing A7?
A while back Canaan said yes you can.
But...
Caveat: As I found by mixing A721's and A741's, yes they work just fine together on 1 controller. BUT be very aware that if/when you apply firmware updates the update is specific to a particular model of Avalon and identified as being for 721,741, etc. Thing is, an update is applied to ALL miners on the controller. In my case the 721's did not like being told they were now 741's... Fortunately, easy to back out again.

So, best to not mix models on 1 controller... Since RasPi's are cheap, painless to do.

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December 22, 2017, 05:58:01 AM
 #69

We still need more manufacturers.

Actually no... more manufacturers means more difficulty level

Selling at 20% of coupon price aka 80% off.
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December 22, 2017, 07:32:37 PM
 #70

I'm surprised that this miner can operates at subzero temperature. Btw, what is the official price?
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December 22, 2017, 08:07:38 PM
 #71

Will the Controller for Avalon Miner 741 work with the 821 and Will you be able to hook up an A8 to an existing A7?

maybe Steve said the auc dongle will be the same  so maybe the controller can share.


as for 120 or 240

simple if you want to mine get at least one 240 circuit.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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December 22, 2017, 08:27:35 PM
 #72

I'm surprised that this miner can operates at subzero temperature. Btw, what is the official price?

 subzero C is trivial - I can't think of any electronic device that CAN'T operate well below 0 C

 subzero F is trivial as well unless some sort of "optical read device" is involved, where condensation can cause issues for the read device.

 Military electronics is COMMONLY specified to at least -40C and usually -55 C - but the PARTS themselves don't tend to be any different inside other than the "recordkeeping makes it easy to trace the lot if you have a bad part" type stuff.




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December 23, 2017, 03:32:52 AM
 #73


 I expect the 821 to end up being ballpark $3000, possibly as LOW as $2500, based on current S9 pricing.
 Caanan/Avalon has always had a price premium compared to whatever Bitmain product they're closest too, unless they were a TON lower on hashrate, and I don't see them pricing the 821 much if ANY lower than S9 since they're fairly close on hashrate and efficiency.
 They might MATCH the price of the S9 due to the hashrate difference, but they won't go lower - Bitmain will tolerate "same price" most likely because they can point at the higher hashrate AND slightly better efficiency, but a lower price would probably prompt a price war.


I mean they told us how they were formulating the price in the press release.  When I plug "my opinion of the numbers" into their "formula" (which by the way their formula makes perfect business sense) I come up with a ballpark of $3500 USD at the retail/disty level.  I see maybe 3k/3.25k for bulk 60 unit pallets.  

If coin price doesn't shrink to much farther, from what I am reading in their release that number makes sense.  And honestly it will sell out FAST even at $3500, just look at the comments in some of the threads and how the newbs will pay "anything for them".  If we believe they have a 10x supply/demand problem, coin price stabilizes high, they consider spot pricing of gear then $3500 would be my starting point!

We're talking about millions of dollars in sales if these companies are not employing professional sales people they are making a huge mistake.  If they are the price is well thought out and internal numbers are analyzed and extrapolated to project a multitude of scenarios.  This information will give them the best possible chance to maximize profits.  When a professional sales exec has a 10x supply/demand ratio skew he is having a wet dream, trust me!  He/She will make the most of it if he/she is any fucking good!

If coin price stays high expect 3k to be the best possible scenario.  If coin prices go up whoa watch out, 4k will sound cheap. IMO

I think your assessment is spot on. I, too, expect to see prices between $3k and $4k per unit.

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December 23, 2017, 06:55:49 AM
 #74

do you think that the recent drop in bitcoin prices will lead to Bitmain / Avalon to reassess their pricing strategy ?
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December 23, 2017, 08:30:48 AM
 #75

do you think that the recent drop in bitcoin prices will lead to Bitmain / Avalon to reassess their pricing strategy ?
Their strategy will be the same. Strategy is price it to maximize profit. So far this crypto price drop seems just as a small correction so it doesn't matter, but if crypto really crashes and/or competition increases, price will go down as supply/demand changes.
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December 23, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
 #76


 I expect the 821 to end up being ballpark $3000, possibly as LOW as $2500, based on current S9 pricing.
 Caanan/Avalon has always had a price premium compared to whatever Bitmain product they're closest too, unless they were a TON lower on hashrate, and I don't see them pricing the 821 much if ANY lower than S9 since they're fairly close on hashrate and efficiency.
 They might MATCH the price of the S9 due to the hashrate difference, but they won't go lower - Bitmain will tolerate "same price" most likely because they can point at the higher hashrate AND slightly better efficiency, but a lower price would probably prompt a price war.


I mean they told us how they were formulating the price in the press release.  When I plug "my opinion of the numbers" into their "formula" (which by the way their formula makes perfect business sense) I come up with a ballpark of $3500 USD at the retail/disty level.  I see maybe 3k/3.25k for bulk 60 unit pallets.  

If coin price doesn't shrink to much farther, from what I am reading in their release that number makes sense.  And honestly it will sell out FAST even at $3500, just look at the comments in some of the threads and how the newbs will pay "anything for them".  If we believe they have a 10x supply/demand problem, coin price stabilizes high, they consider spot pricing of gear then $3500 would be my starting point!

We're talking about millions of dollars in sales if these companies are not employing professional sales people they are making a huge mistake.  If they are the price is well thought out and internal numbers are analyzed and extrapolated to project a multitude of scenarios.  This information will give them the best possible chance to maximize profits.  When a professional sales exec has a 10x supply/demand ratio skew he is having a wet dream, trust me!  He/She will make the most of it if he/she is any fucking good!

If coin price stays high expect 3k to be the best possible scenario.  If coin prices go up whoa watch out, 4k will sound cheap. IMO

I think your assessment is spot on. I, too, expect to see prices between $3k and $4k per unit.

Anything's possible, I guess, but an ROI of 9mo-1yr isn't competitive or palatable to a lot of people.
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December 23, 2017, 01:03:08 PM
 #77

someone start a pool.  $1875 is my guess.

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December 23, 2017, 01:13:05 PM
 #78

someone start a pool.  $1875 is my guess.

Corrected:

someone start a pool an ICO for betting on future prices of miners.
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December 23, 2017, 01:26:16 PM
 #79


 I expect the 821 to end up being ballpark $3000, possibly as LOW as $2500, based on current S9 pricing.
 Caanan/Avalon has always had a price premium compared to whatever Bitmain product they're closest too, unless they were a TON lower on hashrate, and I don't see them pricing the 821 much if ANY lower than S9 since they're fairly close on hashrate and efficiency.
 They might MATCH the price of the S9 due to the hashrate difference, but they won't go lower - Bitmain will tolerate "same price" most likely because they can point at the higher hashrate AND slightly better efficiency, but a lower price would probably prompt a price war.


I mean they told us how they were formulating the price in the press release.  When I plug "my opinion of the numbers" into their "formula" (which by the way their formula makes perfect business sense) I come up with a ballpark of $3500 USD at the retail/disty level.  I see maybe 3k/3.25k for bulk 60 unit pallets.  

If coin price doesn't shrink to much farther, from what I am reading in their release that number makes sense.  And honestly it will sell out FAST even at $3500, just look at the comments in some of the threads and how the newbs will pay "anything for them".  If we believe they have a 10x supply/demand problem, coin price stabilizes high, they consider spot pricing of gear then $3500 would be my starting point!

We're talking about millions of dollars in sales if these companies are not employing professional sales people they are making a huge mistake.  If they are the price is well thought out and internal numbers are analyzed and extrapolated to project a multitude of scenarios.  This information will give them the best possible chance to maximize profits.  When a professional sales exec has a 10x supply/demand ratio skew he is having a wet dream, trust me!  He/She will make the most of it if he/she is any fucking good!

If coin price stays high expect 3k to be the best possible scenario.  If coin prices go up whoa watch out, 4k will sound cheap. IMO

I think your assessment is spot on. I, too, expect to see prices between $3k and $4k per unit.

Anything's possible, I guess, but an ROI of 9mo-1yr isn't competitive or palatable to a lot of people.

It only has to be palatable to 1 in 10 my friend (if you believe their press release)!  Think like a company and not a miner and it becomes easier to understand.

Besides a 1 year +ROI has been the norm MANY times before this and IS competitive and WILL be palatable to at least 1 in 10 people with current coin prices!

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December 23, 2017, 01:30:30 PM
 #80

Pallet pricing for the 821 is on their website now. But everything is sold out.....already or just preparing?
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December 23, 2017, 01:35:20 PM
 #81

what I want to know is will the new Avalon play nicely with P2P pools meaning have you made any adjustments to mine better with P2p

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December 23, 2017, 01:41:23 PM
 #82

Pallet pricing for the 821 is on their website now. But everything is sold out.....already or just preparing?

I would assume it's preping.  Everything official to date has been "no pricing yet, don't ask, when we have it we will release to everyone"
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December 23, 2017, 02:59:17 PM
 #83


Anything's possible, I guess, but an ROI of 9mo-1yr isn't competitive or palatable to a lot of people.

It only has to be palatable to 1 in 10 my friend (if you believe their press release)!  Think like a company and not a miner and it becomes easier to understand.

Besides a 1 year +ROI has been the norm MANY times before this and IS competitive and WILL be palatable to at least 1 in 10 people with current coin prices!



I understand that, but they also have to be competitive with other mining companies. If they're not, it won't even be palatable to 1 in 10. No other mining company has a 1 year ROI right now, and right now is what matters.

If the pallet pricing is to be believed, 60@ $162,525.00 = 2708.75 per miner (with PSU) to distributors. The margins have been fairly slim, so I'm still guessing the 821 will be under 3k. We shall soon see.

Edit: That's the price WITH the PSUs.

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December 23, 2017, 08:52:24 PM
 #84


Anything's possible, I guess, but an ROI of 9mo-1yr isn't competitive or palatable to a lot of people.

 They need to get used to it, we're not going to see new miner generations pretty much every year OR OFTEN LESS any more, as SHA256 miners have caught up to semiconductor state-of-the-art as of the current models.

 Do note that the S9 has already been out for a year and change, which ALREADY makes it Bitmain's longest-lasting "current model" - and it's looking likely to be that for another year or even 2.

 Then the NEXT generation is likely to last more like 4-5 years, since the S9 was designed almost 2 years after the 14/16nm node started seeing production.


 For that matter, if you were an early adopter on the S5 or SP20, you had something like a year and a half, perhaps 2 years with LOW electric power rates, to be able to achieve ROI - and the S7 is still profitable NOW and has been consistantly profitable it's entire existance so far if you had low power rates.

 Better yet - Innosilicon A2 is *3* years old, and they're been consistently profitable at anything under 5 cent power (and possibly 6) for their entire existence - but to be fair they've had a lot less competition 'till this year than has been the norm in SHA256.






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December 24, 2017, 01:48:30 AM
 #85

Most people don't have cheap power at .05/kwh. So it's going to come down to $/TH for most people looking into getting miners now who don't already have a bunch of them. Roll Eyes
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December 24, 2017, 02:36:50 AM
 #86

Wow, at $3-4K per miner, that's going to take over a year ROI, especially with the difficulty going up each month. And if BTC keeps falling, it's going to take even longer! People been snatching up miners on ebay for over $4K because BTC was skyrocketing to $20K! Well, it's dropped a lot since it hit the high. Just last month the S9 was under $1500 & the A741 was under $1K and BTC was over $8K; so people buying new miners then could still make over 200% ROI in a year even after deducting power costs. Now that's all changed with the miners doubling and tripling in price and BTC falling. So people are going to reassess whether it's still profitable to buy a miner or not. Though you'll still get that 1 in 10 who'll buy at the high end and at any price!  Shocked

That's why the companies selling the picks and shovels for digital gold are making out like bandits; just as the people who sold them to the miners back then in the 1850s gold rush. Wink
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December 24, 2017, 07:14:20 AM
 #87


Bitmain have just shown how that price point is acceptable to consumers by selling out so quickly.


I am pretty sure this was exactly the impression they wanted to give by selling out fast for whatever reason  Wink

I don't know, I haven't been in the mining game as long as some of you, but they didn't seem to sell out fast to me.  Huh

A few months ago, when they released a new batch of any miner, their website ground to a halt, and you could sit there refreshing for 1-2 hours, not actually add anything to your cart, and it would be sold out by the time the website was actually responding. The past few batches sit around for hours and hours (and sometimes days/weeks).

And while that price point might be acceptable, the 821 isn't the S9. The S9 has it beat on Watt/TH (by a little) and Price/TH (by a LOT) if they price it the same as the S9... for a machine with 20% less output. Honestly, if the 821 is over $2200, I would be shocked. 

Pallet price of 60 units A821 = $150,525 divided by 60 = $2,508.75 a unit (without PSU).
Add PSU for around $200 ($2,708.75) and re-seller mark up if buying less than 60 units and were around the $3k mark.
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December 24, 2017, 10:33:27 AM
 #88

They're not stupid. I'm pretty sure they added the pallet prices knowing we would all start talking about and they could then gauge the market's response.

Most of you have just shot us all in our collective d***s by saying $3000 is totally worth it.  Undecided

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December 24, 2017, 02:35:28 PM
 #89

When does a ROI of more than a year ever make sense?

Especially on something as risky as a product that can swing a price range of 40% in 1 day?

This unit needs to be sub $2000

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December 24, 2017, 08:16:14 PM
 #90

Wow, at $3-4K per miner, that's going to take over a year ROI, especially with the difficulty going up each month. And if BTC keeps falling, it's going to take even longer! People been snatching up miners on ebay for over $4K because BTC was skyrocketing to $20K! Well, it's dropped a lot since it hit the high. Just last month the S9 was under $1500 & the A741 was under $1K and BTC was over $8K; so people buying new miners then could still make over 200% ROI in a year even after deducting power costs. Now that's all changed with the miners doubling and tripling in price and BTC falling. So people are going to reassess whether it's still profitable to buy a miner or not. Though you'll still get that 1 in 10 who'll buy at the high end and at any price!  Shocked

That's why the companies selling the picks and shovels for digital gold are making out like bandits; just as the people who sold them to the miners back then in the 1850s gold rush. Wink

 eBay pricing on miners doesn't count - folks ALWAYS try to gouge there, and far too often get away with it due to folks with more money than sense.


 Most miners are BADLY spoiled, an ROI of less than a year is AMAZINGLY FANTASTICALLY GOOD when you compare it to most things you can invest your money into.
 Tradeoff is that it IS higher risk than most of those other investments.


 If Bitcoin stays above $12000, an 821/841 or S9 should easily achieve ROI in a year at the $3000 level (presuming the S9 don't lose a hashboard or die) if you have a SANE electric price to mine with.

 Folks paying over 5c/kwh are killing THEIR OWN chance at ROI if they insist on mining Bitcoin itself through excessive overhead cost.




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December 24, 2017, 09:33:39 PM
 #91

When does a ROI of more than a year ever make sense?

Especially on something as risky as a product that can swing a price range of 40% in 1 day?

This unit needs to be sub $2000
It doesn't. Avalon is simply following in the tracks of Bitmain and trying to get as much money as possible from these units ATM. When ROI gets above that point I simply skip the product. Anything less than a year is decent for me, anything over I don't consider.

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December 24, 2017, 10:32:23 PM
 #92

So much hate about Bitmain, but at the of the day... Bitmain was holding prices low in the asic market until these days with very reasonable ROI.
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December 24, 2017, 11:39:57 PM
 #93

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.
We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.

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dlezama
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December 24, 2017, 11:42:44 PM
 #94

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.
We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.
Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course Smiley). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.
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December 24, 2017, 11:47:57 PM
 #95

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.
We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.
Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course Smiley). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.
Problem is distributors will probably mark up the prices to higher than direct. From what I can tell they'll be around the $3000 mark or up which is pretty ridiculous even for a quality product. Hopefully Avalon and their distributors will change their minds about pricing.

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dlezama
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December 25, 2017, 12:10:59 AM
 #96

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.
We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.
Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course Smiley). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.
Problem is distributors will probably mark up the prices to higher than direct. From what I can tell they'll be around the $3000 mark or up which is pretty ridiculous even for a quality product. Hopefully Avalon and their distributors will change their minds about pricing.
They probably wont. Last bitmain S9 batch went pretty quickly for $2750. They will sell just fine at 3k, probably even at 4k, so why in hell would they sell it for less? Would you do that?
leowonderful
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December 25, 2017, 01:45:31 AM
 #97

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.
We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.
Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course Smiley). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.
Problem is distributors will probably mark up the prices to higher than direct. From what I can tell they'll be around the $3000 mark or up which is pretty ridiculous even for a quality product. Hopefully Avalon and their distributors will change their minds about pricing.
They probably wont. Last bitmain S9 batch went pretty quickly for $2750. They will sell just fine at 3k, probably even at 4k, so why in hell would they sell it for less? Would you do that?
It'd be nice if they did. Not saying that they will do anything of the sort, but here's to hoping that they might. They've always been priced above Bitmain, so it'll be a small miracle if prices go even near that of Bitmain's.

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CryptoHodler30
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December 25, 2017, 04:23:59 AM
 #98

These machines are too fancy for mining , but do these last long ?
My bad experience tells me , if you get the original version with first hand quality , you can expect the bigger picture . Otherwise buying these always wrapped up with too much risks.
But in vain , risk taker wins the race. So , Good luck. Suggest me any good distributor of it , i will be glad . Thank you.
We have no idea right now but historically Avalon has always been on top with reliability and quality. They're one of the most reliable modern miners you can get right now. Still not worth paying a huge premium for the A8 still though imo.

If you're in the United States Blokforge is a legit distributor of miners. They're supposedly starting sales on the 26th.
Paying a huge premium wouldn't make sense, you could just buy more S9s and consider them spares (while they mine of course Smiley). I really want to buy a higher quality product from a good distribution network, I'm hoping price is right and I'll put my order.
Problem is distributors will probably mark up the prices to higher than direct. From what I can tell they'll be around the $3000 mark or up which is pretty ridiculous even for a quality product. Hopefully Avalon and their distributors will change their minds about pricing.
They probably wont. Last bitmain S9 batch went pretty quickly for $2750. They will sell just fine at 3k, probably even at 4k, so why in hell would they sell it for less? Would you do that?
It'd be nice if they did. Not saying that they will do anything of the sort, but here's to hoping that they might. They've always been priced above Bitmain, so it'll be a small miracle if prices go even near that of Bitmain's.

i think Avalon can get away with a mark up over Bitmain due to quality, but not actually over the price of an s9 since it doesnt have the same TH/s. at 202 a th/s an avalon would be 2222, plus a slight mark up since they wont get into a price war with bitmain (ill be honest i wish they would b/c we know that bitmain can probably still turn a profit all the way down to 800 or so)
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December 25, 2017, 07:29:28 AM
 #99

Might as well cloud mine with these miner prices.
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December 25, 2017, 03:50:31 PM
 #100

I'm seeing on Canaan's site that a 60 pack is 165K which would be $2,750 each.
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December 25, 2017, 05:12:33 PM
 #101

They raised the pallet pricing by $2,000.  Now $152,525.
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December 25, 2017, 05:25:13 PM
 #102

Why still so cheap? Lets make Avalon 821 price 10000$.
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December 25, 2017, 06:57:11 PM
 #103

The prelim specs I was given were 10TH for 1000w. I really wish that is what the final number would have been. People would have been able to run these easily on 110v at home.

 The 821 can probably be downclocked to meet or come close to those numbers.

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December 25, 2017, 07:01:51 PM
 #104

Wow, at $3-4K per miner, that's going to take over a year ROI, especially with the difficulty going up each month. And if BTC keeps falling, it's going to take even longer! People been snatching up miners on ebay for over $4K because BTC was skyrocketing to $20K! Well, it's dropped a lot since it hit the high. Just last month the S9 was under $1500 & the A741 was under $1K and BTC was over $8K; so people buying new miners then could still make over 200% ROI in a year even after deducting power costs. Now that's all changed with the miners doubling and tripling in price and BTC falling. So people are going to reassess whether it's still profitable to buy a miner or not. Though you'll still get that 1 in 10 who'll buy at the high end and at any price!  Shocked

That's why the companies selling the picks and shovels for digital gold are making out like bandits; just as the people who sold them to the miners back then in the 1850s gold rush. Wink

 And jeans - that's where Levi Strauss made HIS name and initial bundle.


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December 25, 2017, 08:03:07 PM
 #105

I agree we need to stop the bitmain Monopoly. A bit disappointed with the hash rate tho. Will be looking at the dragonmont 16t
You won't be looking at it because it doesn't exist, it's a scam
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December 25, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
 #106

I agree we need to stop the bitmain Monopoly. A bit disappointed with the hash rate tho. Will be looking at the dragonmont 16t
You won't be looking at it because it doesn't exist, it's a scam

you'll be looking at vaporware
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December 25, 2017, 09:52:33 PM
 #107

Might as well cloud mine with these miner prices.

This is actually a great point. For the big players it won’t matter, but it could be a bit of a control on prices if distributors can’t move miners quickly enough because people are just moving to cloud mining.

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December 26, 2017, 06:29:28 PM
 #108

I bought some cloud mining because there were no miners to buy.
I will buy some more miners when they become available. I still have a couple power outlets in my garage.
I'll wait for the new a8 miners to go on sale. I hope there not too over priced like the s9 miners lately.
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December 26, 2017, 07:53:50 PM
 #109

They raised the pallet pricing by $2,000.  Now $152,525.

Is there any chance the A821s will be under 2500 or even 3000? It looks unlikely from what people are saying about pallet prices, unless the official distributors like crypto and blokforge get them for cheaper?
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December 26, 2017, 10:32:32 PM
 #110

If Bitcoin collapses under $10k very soon and STAYS there for a month or more, I'd bet against the Avalon 821 being priced under $2500 at "retail pricing" when it is released.
Given the current recovery from what appears to have been a market correction, I would bet that it is unlikely to be under $3000.

 Up side - unlike the Innosilicon A4+, the distributors seem to be willing to sell singles, and NO worries about customs hassles if you're in the same country as one of them (or in the EU if there's a European distributor somewhere).


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December 27, 2017, 01:03:31 PM
 #111

Lets compare and do some analysis of where Canaan NEEDS to be for their units to make sense:

S9 at 13.5 TH/s - current price (last batch, inflated price) - $2,725 ea.
A821 at 11 TH/s - estimated price based on 60 units, bulk pack, reseller - $2,885 ea.

S9 power consumption - daily cost (at $0.10/kWh) - $3.18
A821 power consumption - daily cost (at $0.10/kWh) - $2.88

Avg. Daily Profit from S9 - $32.50
Avg. Daily Profit from A821 - $26.23

Days to recoup investment (not counting power supply, shipping, customs, etc):

S9 - ($2725/$32.50) - 84 days - then a profit of $32.50 per day
A821 - ($2885/26.23) - 109 days - then a profit of $26.23 per day

1 year ROI:

S9 one year ROI - $11,862.50
A821 one year ROI - $9,573.95

I know things change in regards to difficulty and other factors, but if Canaan doesn't lower their price it won't make sense to purchase their product compared to the S9's, even at the current insanely inflated S9 pricing.  This is really sad, since I do believe Bitmain needs some serious competition.

Hopefully Canaan can see this and will end up pricing these similarly to their retired 741's since around the $1400 range would make sense to get these units, but at $2800+ it is ridiculously overpriced for the hash power you are getting with the amount of watts they use.

Just my 2 cents...
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December 27, 2017, 04:40:12 PM
 #112

Lets compare and do some analysis of where Canaan NEEDS to be for their units to make sense:

S9 at 13.5 TH/s - current price (last batch, inflated price) - $2,725 ea.
A821 at 11 TH/s - estimated price based on 60 units, bulk pack, reseller - $2,885 ea.

S9 power consumption - daily cost (at $0.10/kWh) - $3.18
A821 power consumption - daily cost (at $0.10/kWh) - $2.88

Avg. Daily Profit from S9 - $32.50
Avg. Daily Profit from A821 - $26.23

Days to recoup investment (not counting power supply, shipping, customs, etc):

S9 - ($2725/$32.50) - 84 days - then a profit of $32.50 per day
A821 - ($2885/26.23) - 109 days - then a profit of $26.23 per day

1 year ROI:

S9 one year ROI - $11,862.50
A821 one year ROI - $9,573.95

I know things change in regards to difficulty and other factors, but if Canaan doesn't lower their price it won't make sense to purchase their product compared to the S9's, even at the current insanely inflated S9 pricing.  This is really sad, since I do believe Bitmain needs some serious competition.

Hopefully Canaan can see this and will end up pricing these similarly to their retired 741's since around the $1400 range would make sense to get these units, but at $2800+ it is ridiculously overpriced for the hash power you are getting with the amount of watts they use.

Just my 2 cents...

You want them to cut the supposed price in half?  Not happening.  Welcome to the real bitcoin mining era.  Buck up little camper.
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December 27, 2017, 05:04:21 PM
 #113

Why still so cheap? Lets make Avalon 821 price 10000$.

Why so cheap ? why do you want it at 10 K so you can shut out everyone else ? ....Greed sigh .....
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December 27, 2017, 07:13:42 PM
 #114

Any idea if they'll use the same PSUs as the 741s? More specifically the EVGA Supernova 1300/1600 G2? I notice it's 8X6pin versus the 6X6pin the 741s used. Im assuming it can because the S9 can use the EVGAs with 9X6 pins.
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December 27, 2017, 07:27:55 PM
 #115

Any idea if they'll use the same PSUs as the 741s? More specifically the EVGA Supernova 1300/1600 G2? I notice it's 8X6pin versus the 6X6pin the 741s used. Im assuming it can because the S9 can use the EVGAs with 9X6 pins.


If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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December 27, 2017, 07:41:01 PM
 #116

Any idea if they'll use the same PSUs as the 741s? More specifically the EVGA Supernova 1300/1600 G2? I notice it's 8X6pin versus the 6X6pin the 741s used. Im assuming it can because the S9 can use the EVGAs with 9X6 pins.


If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.

Why? I'm assuming you'd recommend using the Sorcerer instead?
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December 27, 2017, 07:44:50 PM
 #117

I think everybody who is buying asics at this insane prices will be crying in February.

There was really huge batch in January for S9 therefore it will increase mining difficulty dramatically. Also it may come together with Bitcoin price dip.

What the point to buy this hardware now? I believe it is better to wait February and take this hardware at 1/2 price.

Of course if you expect BTC price 100000$ in February you can go with current prices.
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December 27, 2017, 09:14:41 PM
 #118

I think everybody who is buying asics at this insane prices will be crying in February.

There was really huge batch in January for S9 therefore it will increase mining difficulty dramatically. Also it may come together with Bitcoin price dip.

What the point to buy this hardware now? I believe it is better to wait February and take this hardware at 1/2 price.

Of course if you expect BTC price 100000$ in February you can go with current prices.


Hardware price isn't dropping.   Wait until the new miners come online....will be even more expensive.
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December 27, 2017, 09:17:32 PM
 #119

Any idea if they'll use the same PSUs as the 741s? More specifically the EVGA Supernova 1300/1600 G2? I notice it's 8X6pin versus the 6X6pin the 741s used. Im assuming it can because the S9 can use the EVGAs with 9X6 pins.

If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.


 Not automatically true - some like the ATX power supplies because they intend to use them for other stuff once the ASIC miner dies - or in my case I would use my EXISTING G2-1300 or X-1250 supplies because I have a couple floating around not currently being USED for anything.

 8 PCI-E connectors on 1200 watts works out to 150 watts per connector - the EVGA "dual" cables should be ok as they apparently use 16AWG wiring to the first connector, then feed the second one with 18AWG, on the power and ground leads.
 There IS a 20 AWG wire in there, but that's a sense wire that doesn't carry significant power.



 Given how many S9 units ALONE are already in use, plus the various other models from other companies AND some folks still running older units like the S7, there is no way a single Bitmain S9 batch is going to have a HUGE effect on difficulty - the last few batches have only been pushing it by around 10%, and the "20% jump" before that was partly folks bouncing around into and out of BCH not just the new S9 batch.







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December 27, 2017, 09:20:49 PM
 #120

I think everybody who is buying asics at this insane prices will be crying in February.

There was really huge batch in January for S9 therefore it will increase mining difficulty dramatically. Also it may come together with Bitcoin price dip.

What the point to buy this hardware now? I believe it is better to wait February and take this hardware at 1/2 price.

Of course if you expect BTC price 100000$ in February you can go with current prices.


Hardware price isn't dropping.   Wait until the new miners come online....will be even more expensive.
Of course it will drop, as soon as profitability goes down hardware prices will go with it. Or as soon as supply of miners goes up (what will bring profits down too). One way or another people that paid $5000 for an S9 will suffer. This is all part of a cycle, nothing moves in a single direction for too long.
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December 27, 2017, 09:34:19 PM
 #121

Any idea if they'll use the same PSUs as the 741s? More specifically the EVGA Supernova 1300/1600 G2? I notice it's 8X6pin versus the 6X6pin the 741s used. Im assuming it can because the S9 can use the EVGAs with 9X6 pins.

If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.


 Not automatically true - some like the ATX power supplies because they intend to use them for other stuff once the ASIC miner dies - or in my case I would use my EXISTING G2-1300 or X-1250 supplies because I have a couple floating around not currently being USED for anything.

 8 PCI-E connectors on 1200 watts works out to 150 watts per connector - the EVGA "dual" cables should be ok as they apparently use 16AWG wiring to the first connector, then feed the second one with 18AWG, on the power and ground leads.
 There IS a 20 AWG wire in there, but that's a sense wire that doesn't carry significant power.



Given how many S9 units ALONE are already in use, plus the various other models from other companies AND some folks still running older units like the S7, there is no way a single Bitmain S9 batch is going to have a HUGE effect on difficulty - the last few batches have only been pushing it by around 10%, and the "20% jump" before that was partly folks bouncing around into and out of BCH not just the new S9 batch.








So basically only buy ATX power supplies if you are planning on eventually using them with something OTHER than another ASIC afterwards?
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December 27, 2017, 10:39:27 PM
 #122

I have got different question. Lets say Canaan is selling a preorder batches to the distributors at 2600$ each 821 miner. Miners will be delivered in January. When January comes distributors receive miners. Bitmain decides to fcuk Canaan or simply profit from mining decrease. Bitmain decides to sell their S9 priced 1600$ each. Distributors will get stuck until Bitmain is sold out?
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December 27, 2017, 10:54:01 PM
 #123

I have got different question. Lets say Canaan is selling a preorder batches to the distributors at 2600$ each 821 miner. Miners will be delivered in January. When January comes distributors receive miners. Bitmain decides to fcuk Canaan or simply profit from mining decrease. Bitmain decides to sell their S9 priced 1600$ each. Distributors will get stuck until Bitmain is sold out?

Yeah I was thinking exactly the same. Bitmain has the financial power, if they choose to use it, to really make life miserable for their competitors pricing wise. We have seen this in many industries since trading has been invented. They most likely can put weaker companies out of business if they like.
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December 27, 2017, 11:10:17 PM
 #124

I have got different question. Lets say Canaan is selling a preorder batches to the distributors at 2600$ each 821 miner. Miners will be delivered in January. When January comes distributors receive miners. Bitmain decides to fcuk Canaan or simply profit from mining decrease. Bitmain decides to sell their S9 priced 1600$ each. Distributors will get stuck until Bitmain is sold out?

Yeah I was thinking exactly the same. Bitmain has the financial power, if they choose to use it, to really make life miserable for their competitors pricing wise. We have seen this in many industries since trading has been invented. They most likely can put weaker companies out of business if they like.

Interesting thought.
I guess it depends on whether Bitmain would prefer to maximise profits by pricing just under or around Canaan's price or whether they want to make life miserable for Canaan and way under cut them when they release the 821.

With the shortage of supply of chips/miner's vs consumer demand my guess is that Bitmain will remain priced just under Canaan to realise the most profit.
I think this because if they under cut Canaan at $1600 or something like that they will sell out in a day and leave Canaan as the only option available anyway.
IE Bitmain would sacrifice much profit for a temporary f**k you to Canaan.

I think the low price would only work if Bitmain could keep up with consumer demand for a prolonged period of time.

Just my opinion of course. Smiley
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December 27, 2017, 11:15:28 PM
 #125

I was just thinking of another option which would be a dirty move.
If Bitmain really wanted to mess with Canaan they could under cut them and instead of releasing 1000-2000 units as a batch they could drip feed releases of around 100 S9 daily while they wait for more chips and then repeat the process over and over again so everyone is constantly waiting and trying to score a cheap s9's instead of 821's. ha ha



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December 28, 2017, 12:35:35 AM
 #126

aren't these two companies making money hand over fist already?  They've already "tested" the miners for 6-9 months, and now their new test batch has arrived and they shipped out the 741s.

I don't see how either company can lose in a market like this.  It's just who's going to have a bigger win.  Remember price elasticity in economics?

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December 28, 2017, 02:02:41 AM
 #127

im interested with these new avalon miner but I have a question
does the 7 (i guess the 8 will have the same logic) push or pull the air from the fan

I use currently duct shroud for my s7 and would like to keep using this for my next avalon miner

thanks
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December 28, 2017, 06:37:41 AM
 #128

Any idea if they'll use the same PSUs as the 741s? More specifically the EVGA Supernova 1300/1600 G2? I notice it's 8X6pin versus the 6X6pin the 741s used. Im assuming it can because the S9 can use the EVGAs with 9X6 pins.

If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.


 Not automatically true - some like the ATX power supplies because they intend to use them for other stuff once the ASIC miner dies - or in my case I would use my EXISTING G2-1300 or X-1250 supplies because I have a couple floating around not currently being USED for anything.

 8 PCI-E connectors on 1200 watts works out to 150 watts per connector - the EVGA "dual" cables should be ok as they apparently use 16AWG wiring to the first connector, then feed the second one with 18AWG, on the power and ground leads.
 There IS a 20 AWG wire in there, but that's a sense wire that doesn't carry significant power.


So basically only buy ATX power supplies if you are planning on eventually using them with something OTHER than another ASIC afterwards?

 For economic sense, yes.
 There actually is one other possible reason - most Server-type power supplies don't provide as much power capacity on 117VAC as on 234 VAC - if you don't have 234VAC available and can't have your placed modded to do so, the ATX option (especially on 2 smaller PS) gets a LOT closer on cost since you would then likely be competing 2 small ATX vs 2 small server supplies.



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December 28, 2017, 07:59:49 AM
 #129

If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.

We have over 120 EVGA 1600 Titaniums in our farm. They run our S7's, S9s, and Avalon 741's. They run our big GPU rigs. We can run our gear at 120v, 208v, 220v, or 240v. We push them pretty hard. They have a 10 year warranty, though we have never had a unit fail. We have units that have been in operation 24/7/365 for over 3 years without a lick of problems. We have run multiple generations of gear on them. If the next gen gear have different power requirements, we should be able to resell them used for close to or even what we paid for them, so they act as a store of value vs. a real operational expense. Granted our farm is very small, but I always thought standardizing our power gear with high end ATX PSU's as an investment and it has worked out very well so far. We can use any PSU in our farm to run any gear, and they do it well. Easy. And they are rock solid. We tried a batch of Bitmain's APW3 a few months ago, 12 units, and 2 were DOA right out of the box. I thought they were junk. I don't know, take all this with a grain, your mileage may vary, but I feel really good with those ATX's powering our gear. It's been worry free so far.

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December 28, 2017, 10:03:06 AM
 #130

I was just thinking of another option which would be a dirty move.
If Bitmain really wanted to mess with Canaan they could under cut them and instead of releasing 1000-2000 units as a batch they could drip feed releases of around 100 S9 daily while they wait for more chips and then repeat the process over and over again so everyone is constantly waiting and trying to score a cheap s9's instead of 821's. ha ha

This does not make sense for Bitmain from the operations point of view. Too much hassle, little gain.
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December 28, 2017, 11:23:52 AM
 #131

I was just thinking of another option which would be a dirty move.
If Bitmain really wanted to mess with Canaan they could under cut them and instead of releasing 1000-2000 units as a batch they could drip feed releases of around 100 S9 daily while they wait for more chips and then repeat the process over and over again so everyone is constantly waiting and trying to score a cheap s9's instead of 821's. ha ha

This does not make sense for Bitmain from the operations point of view. Too much hassle, little gain.

Totally agree.
I was just working out a hypothetical way that Bitmain could hurt Canaan's release of the 821 in response to an earlier post.
Would be a totally silly to do this in reality.
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December 28, 2017, 03:41:18 PM
 #132

im interested with these new avalon miner but I have a question
does the 7 (i guess the 8 will have the same logic) push or pull the air from the fan

I use currently duct shroud for my s7 and would like to keep using this for my next avalon miner

thanks

It pulls air from the single fan.
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December 28, 2017, 03:45:44 PM
 #133

If you are using ATX power supplies you are so doing it wrong. People should know better by now.

We have over 120 EVGA 1600 Titaniums in our farm. They run our S7's, S9s, and Avalon 741's. They run our big GPU rigs. We can run our gear at 120v, 208v, 220v, or 240v. We push them pretty hard. They have a 10 year warranty, though we have never had a unit fail. We have units that have been in operation 24/7/365 for over 3 years without a lick of problems. We have run multiple generations of gear on them. If the next gen gear have different power requirements, we should be able to resell them used for close to or even what we paid for them, so they act as a store of value vs. a real operational expense. Granted our farm is very small, but I always thought standardizing our power gear with high end ATX PSU's as an investment and it has worked out very well so far. We can use any PSU in our farm to run any gear, and they do it well. Easy. And they are rock solid. We tried a batch of Bitmain's APW3 a few months ago, 12 units, and 2 were DOA right out of the box. I thought they were junk. I don't know, take all this with a grain, your mileage may vary, but I feel really good with those ATX's powering our gear. It's been worry free so far.

Not to mention I can't find Antminer or Avalon PSUs, but I can find the ATXs or at least know when I can get them from reputable websites. If it takes another month to get a non ATX psu versus having an ATX within a week then the cost difference will pay itself off.
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December 28, 2017, 04:02:13 PM
 #134

im interested with these new avalon miner but I have a question
does the 7 (i guess the 8 will have the same logic) push or pull the air from the fan

I use currently duct shroud for my s7 and would like to keep using this for my next avalon miner

thanks

It pulls air from the single fan.

To clarify: it pulls air from the opposite side (across the boards). The air is exiting on the side with the fan.

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December 28, 2017, 04:46:32 PM
 #135

To all those talking about the PSUs, I never said go with a mining company cheapo PSU. I have personally experienced near 30% out of the box failure rates on Bitmain PSUs.

When you mine as a business or as your sole source of income, ancillary costs are very important to keep low.


EVGA 1600w 80+ Platinum PSU is $450

HP Server 80+ Platinum 2250-2450watt PSU can be had for around $60 and requires about $15 in cables and solder.

You are talking $50k in ATX to run 120 units versus under $10k

In the mining game you dont ever sell off your PSUs, you reinvest in newer hardware that can run off the same PSU as the old stuff. And since you have a PSU with 850w more power you have the flexibility to do things like run two Avalons off of one PSU thus cutting costs even more. Ill take my 60-65% loaded PSU right in its efficiency curve over an ATX PSU running at 90% load working much harder any day.


Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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December 28, 2017, 05:07:38 PM
 #136

To all those talking about the PSUs, I never said go with a mining company cheapo PSU. I have personally experienced near 30% out of the box failure rates on Bitmain PSUs.

When you mine as a business or as your sole source of income, ancillary costs are very important to keep low.


EVGA 1600w 80+ Platinum PSU is $450

HP Server 80+ Platinum 2250-2450watt PSU can be had for around $60 and requires about $15 in cables and solder.

You are talking $50k in ATX to run 120 units versus under $10k

In the mining game you dont ever sell off your PSUs, you reinvest in newer hardware that can run off the same PSU as the old stuff. And since you have a PSU with 850w more power you have the flexibility to do things like run two Avalons off of one PSU thus cutting costs even more. Ill take my 60-65% loaded PSU right in its efficiency curve over an ATX PSU running at 90% load working much harder any day.



Are Avalon's PSUs any better than Bitmain's? Also where can I find a tutorial on how to set up the HP PSU for an ASIC?


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December 28, 2017, 07:23:52 PM
 #137

As for Bitmain -vs- Caanan pricing, I think the most recent sale of 741's on Blokforge to be instructive. They literally sold out in minutes. They had 100 units, and well over 1000 folks interested. They set a limit of 2 per order, and still disappointed a lot of folks.

With the current FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) attitude surrounding Bitcoin, there is plenty of money to go around, and neither Bitmain nor Caanan has any reason to engage in a price war. Both will sell all they can produce while BTC price holds up, and they are production constrained (probably by ASIC fab).
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December 28, 2017, 08:17:00 PM
 #138

The manufacturers work together more than against each other. It is in their best interests to not fight since there is more money than production capacity and it will be that way for the foreseeable future.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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December 28, 2017, 08:28:08 PM
 #139

To all those talking about the PSUs, I never said go with a mining company cheapo PSU. I have personally experienced near 30% out of the box failure rates on Bitmain PSUs.

When you mine as a business or as your sole source of income, ancillary costs are very important to keep low.

EVGA 1600w 80+ Platinum PSU is $450

HP Server 80+ Platinum 2250-2450watt PSU can be had for around $60 and requires about $15 in cables and solder.

You are talking $50k in ATX to run 120 units versus under $10k

In the mining game you dont ever sell off your PSUs, you reinvest in newer hardware that can run off the same PSU as the old stuff. And since you have a PSU with 850w more power you have the flexibility to do things like run two Avalons off of one PSU thus cutting costs even more. Ill take my 60-65% loaded PSU right in its efficiency curve over an ATX PSU running at 90% load working much harder any day.


 It would be a little more fair to compare to a pair of 850 watt PS at more like $300 on the ATX side - but the server power supplies still win the battle of economics *IF YOU ARE SURE YOU WILL BE MINING FOR SEVERAL YEARS*.
 Or even reasonably sure.

 On the other hand, when you already HAVE spare ATX power supplies, they win the economics battle as the have zero cost. 9-)


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December 28, 2017, 08:54:23 PM
 #140

To all those talking about the PSUs, I never said go with a mining company cheapo PSU. I have personally experienced near 30% out of the box failure rates on Bitmain PSUs.

When you mine as a business or as your sole source of income, ancillary costs are very important to keep low.

EVGA 1600w 80+ Platinum PSU is $450

HP Server 80+ Platinum 2250-2450watt PSU can be had for around $60 and requires about $15 in cables and solder.

You are talking $50k in ATX to run 120 units versus under $10k

In the mining game you dont ever sell off your PSUs, you reinvest in newer hardware that can run off the same PSU as the old stuff. And since you have a PSU with 850w more power you have the flexibility to do things like run two Avalons off of one PSU thus cutting costs even more. Ill take my 60-65% loaded PSU right in its efficiency curve over an ATX PSU running at 90% load working much harder any day.


 It would be a little more fair to compare to a pair of 850 watt PS at more like $300 on the ATX side - but the server power supplies still win the battle of economics *IF YOU ARE SURE YOU WILL BE MINING FOR SEVERAL YEARS*.
 Or even reasonably sure.

 On the other hand, when you already HAVE spare ATX power supplies, they win the economics battle as the have zero cost. 9-)



So this is what I should use for the 821? Assuming I can even get my hands on one...

https://www.parallelminer.com/product/platinum-94-1500-watt-power-supply-kit-for-2-a4-dominator-litecoin-miners-ltc-litecoin-100-240v/
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December 28, 2017, 09:48:43 PM
 #141


Yea those would work fine. Just make sure if you go with a 2 psu setup for the avalon you only use one PSU per hashing board. If you mix the plugs you will fry the equipment.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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December 28, 2017, 10:46:28 PM
 #142


Yea those would work fine. Just make sure if you go with a 2 psu setup for the avalon you only use one PSU per hashing board. If you mix the plugs you will fry the equipment.

Ok, so since the 821 has 2 boards with 4 6 pin plugs each, each PSU will have only 4 PCI cables running out it into one board for a total of 8 PCI cables going into the miner, 4 from each PSU? And of the 4 6 pin connectors on each PSU, which do the PCIs go in?

Thanks
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December 29, 2017, 12:33:16 AM
 #143

im interested with these new avalon miner but I have a question
does the 7 (i guess the 8 will have the same logic) push or pull the air from the fan

I use currently duct shroud for my s7 and would like to keep using this for my next avalon miner

thanks

It pulls air from the single fan.

To clarify: it pulls air from the opposite side (across the boards). The air is exiting on the side with the fan.
great thanks Smiley
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January 16, 2018, 04:39:45 AM
 #144

Will the Controller for Avalon Miner 741 work with the 821 and Will you be able to hook up an A8 to an existing A7?
A while back Canaan said yes you can.
But...
Caveat: As I found by mixing A721's and A741's, yes they work just fine together on 1 controller. BUT be very aware that if/when you apply firmware updates the update is specific to a particular model of Avalon and identified as being for 721,741, etc. Thing is, an update is applied to ALL miners on the controller. In my case the 721's did not like being told they were now 741's... Fortunately, easy to back out again.

So, best to not mix models on 1 controller... Since RasPi's are cheap, painless to do.

I sent them an email to see if you can mix and match 741's and 821's on 1 controller.

The response was that they use different firmware.
I take that to mean you won't be able to set the machines up on the same controller.

Like Notfuzzy said you should just have a 2nd controller ready to go to avoid downtime.

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January 16, 2018, 02:09:34 PM
 #145

Quote
The response was that they use different firmware.

Is there a review everywhere explaining how to setup a Avalon 8?
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January 16, 2018, 02:29:17 PM
 #146

Is there a review everywhere explaining how to setup a Avalon 8?
The user does not interact with firmware. Setup should be exactly the same as the A7's.

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January 16, 2018, 03:14:05 PM
 #147

The only difference so far is that you will need a PSU  that has 8 - 6 pin connectors, and delivers more than 1200W. I think they are selling 1600W PSU's . Other than that it's the same setup as a 741

No reviews or how to guides yet. Best bet is to run your 821's on a new controller just for them.

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January 16, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
 #148

You will want to run them on a separate controller anyway. If they are all on the same controller you can never update the MM firmware because it is miner specific and the update process happens to all miners on the RPi at once, there is no way to selectively update.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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January 16, 2018, 11:13:40 PM
 #149

Now we wait 8 months for them to finish mining with them before they package them up and sell them to us

Back in my day Bitcoin used to cost $69
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January 19, 2018, 05:20:35 PM
 #150

Is the 821 firmware available for the controllers yet?   I got a blokforge 741 controller but now getting an Avalon 821 miner instead so mineaswell get ready
 

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January 19, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
 #151

Is the 821 firmware available for the controllers yet?   I got a blokforge 741 controller but now getting an Avalon 821 miner instead so mineaswell get ready
 


The current RPi software works for both the A6 and the A7, chances are it will work for the A8 as well. The big difference will be the internal mm firmware for the miners daughter card, that is what actually controls the boards.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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January 19, 2018, 06:16:56 PM
 #152

Is the 821 firmware available for the controllers yet?   I got a blokforge 741 controller but now getting an Avalon 821 miner instead so mineaswell get ready
Firmware has NOTHING to do with the controllers. Firmware resides only inside the miners themselves. The 721/741/821 all run the same controller SOFTWARE which is based on OpenWRT & LUCI.

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January 19, 2018, 09:35:38 PM
 #153

Is the 821 firmware available for the controllers yet?   I got a blokforge 741 controller but now getting an Avalon 821 miner instead so mineaswell get ready

Yes. You may find the software and firmware for the A821 here.

The current RPi software works for both the A6 and the A7, chances are it will work for the A8 as well. The big difference will be the internal mm firmware for the miners daughter card, that is what actually controls the boards.

No, all Controller (Raspberry Pi) software before version 20171216 are not compatible with the A8 series. Controller (Raspberry Pi) support for the A8s only began with the addition of commit 591b6a9 and the ones after it.
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January 19, 2018, 09:41:49 PM
 #154

No, all Controller (Raspberry Pi) software before version 20171216 are not compatible with the A8 series. Controller (Raspberry Pi) support for the A8s only began with the addition of commit 591b6a9 and the ones after it.

thank you for the clarification

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January 20, 2018, 04:36:15 AM
 #155

Sorry to beat a dead horse, so to say. I'm not technically savy but I like to learn so let me know if I get this correct and definitely point out anything wrong.

Firmware has NOTHING to do with the controllers. Firmware resides only inside the miners themselves. The 721/741/821 all run the same controller SOFTWARE which is based on OpenWRT & LUCI.

Thanks for the information, I do appreciate it.

So in the example of setting up a controller off a Rasp PI, I would load the suggested Firmware following the instructions on the Canaan site.

Is the "SOFTWARE which is based on OpenWRT & LUCI" just part of this package that I would be flashing to the SD card? I get hung up on the terms

Is the 821 firmware available for the controllers yet?   I got a blokforge 741 controller but now getting an Avalon 821 miner instead so mineaswell get ready

Yes. You may find the software and firmware for the A821 here.

The current RPi software works for both the A6 and the A7, chances are it will work for the A8 as well. The big difference will be the internal mm firmware for the miners daughter card, that is what actually controls the boards.

No, all Controller (Raspberry Pi) software before version 20171216 are not compatible with the A8 series. Controller (Raspberry Pi) support for the A8s only began with the addition of commit 591b6a9 and the ones after it.

Thanks for the links, and clarification.

So if I get this right, anyone with a version of the Software for their controller older than the one you point out, would need to reflash the SD card with new version marked as "Controller Firmware" for the 821.

In doing this in theory anyone with Avalon 6, 721, 741, and 821 could run off the same controller? Or at least they could go with 741's and 821's

If they do run a mix on this controller down the road if they upgrade MM firmware for Miners they just have to diconnect say the 821's to update the 741's and vice versa.

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January 20, 2018, 10:38:20 PM
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 #156

Is the "SOFTWARE which is based on OpenWRT & LUCI" just part of this package that I would be flashing to the SD card? I get hung up on the terms.

More accurately, you would be flashing a Canaan-customized OpenWrt image to the SD card. This OpenWrt software is the "Controller Firmware" that runs on the Controller/Pi, and it contains everything needed to run AvalonMiners. LuCI is a package within OpenWrt that provides you with the web user interface.

So if I get this right, anyone with a version of the Software for their controller older than the one you point out, would need to reflash the SD card with new version marked as "Controller Firmware" for the 821.

Yes. This is because all Controller software before version 20171216 does not have any code that recognizes the A8 series.

In doing this in theory anyone with Avalon 6, 721, 741, and 821 could run off the same controller? Or at least they could go with 741's and 821's.

It should be possible, in theory. This is because the Controller software for the A821 (version 20171216 and later) still contains code that recognizes the earlier AvalonMiner models.

However, I'm not sure whether the Controller software for the A821 is fully backward-compatible in practice — i.e., I'm not sure whether the A8s can co-exist peacefully alongside earlier models on the same Controller. This is because the A821 seems to be using new A8-specific cgminer parameters — e.g., voltage_offset has been changed to voltage_level_offset in cgminer/files/cgminer.avalon8.config, and this change is reflected in cgminer/files/cgminer.avalon8.init.

I'm therefore not sure whether or how the "CGMiner Configuration" page in OpenWrt would be able to distinguish between the A6- and A7-specific voltage_offset setting and the A8-specific voltage_level_offset setting, and whether or how the "CGMiner Configuration" page would be able to distinguish between other changes that I may have missed. For example, this may break the "Voltage Offset" option in the "CGMiner Configuration" page when A8s are mixed with earlier AvalonMiner models on the same Controller.

It may therefore be better at this point to run your A8s on a separate Controller/Pi, at least until Canaan sheds more light on this.

If they do run a mix on this controller down the road if they upgrade MM firmware for Miners they just have to diconnect say the 821's to update the 741's and vice versa.

Yes. Never update the MM firmware when having a mix of different AvalonMiner models on the same Controller. This seems to be even more crucial when having the A8s on the same Controller, as the A8s seem to be using a different flash layout.
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January 21, 2018, 03:21:35 AM
 #157

Thanks for the rundown..  as far as grabbing the new versions, shouldn't there be a zip file instead of all the files on the repository? 

Is there an easy way of downloading them and putting them on the card?   It seemed I only was able to navigate through the path directories and download one by one


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January 21, 2018, 08:01:08 PM
 #158

Thanks for clarifications @frodocooper

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January 22, 2018, 10:07:26 AM
 #159

In november i bought a nice 741 for 900$ they really went crazy with the prices, i dont know who the heck is buying these 821. ROI is AWFUL 3800$ for 11th/s. I dont know what is ppl thinking, bitcoin is barely over 11k difficulty is A LOT harder since november and they wanna charge 3 times more for the same amount of hash power? A 741 at 900$ was 128$ per 1 TH/S a 820 at 3800$ is 345 per 1TH/s all while 1 th/s pays less now than in november

Bitmain changed their prices but it wasnt so crazy from 1400 to 2300
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January 22, 2018, 11:05:04 AM
 #160

821 price predicition for distributors

For 821  you can consider that the price could be anywhere between 3000 and 4000  per machine.

Avalon  841 release:

The 841  should start shipping in the March April time frame. Performance should range around 13TH and 12 Watts.
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January 22, 2018, 04:29:06 PM
 #161

In november i bought a nice 741 for 900$ they really went crazy with the prices, i dont know who the heck is buying these 821. ROI is AWFUL 3800$ for 11th/s. I dont know what is ppl thinking, bitcoin is barely over 11k difficulty is A LOT harder since november and they wanna charge 3 times more for the same amount of hash power? A 741 at 900$ was 128$ per 1 TH/S a 820 at 3800$ is 345 per 1TH/s all while 1 th/s pays less now than in november

Bitmain changed their prices but it wasnt so crazy from 1400 to 2300

consider yourself lucky - it wasn't like everyone that wanted them in Nov could get them and many people got back into mining only when the weather got so cold that they dusted off their old ones for heat... then it was a mad dash for the rest of the stock


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January 22, 2018, 07:51:26 PM
 #162

821 price predicition for distributors

For 821  you can consider that the price could be anywhere between 3000 and 4000  per machine.

Avalon  841 release:

The 841  should start shipping in the March April time frame. Performance should range around 13TH and 12 Watts.

Not sure where you got your data but I wouldnt be sharing that information since it is not true.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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January 22, 2018, 07:54:58 PM
 #163

821 price predicition for distributors

For 821  you can consider that the price could be anywhere between 3000 and 4000  per machine.

Avalon  841 release:

The 841  should start shipping in the March April time frame. Performance should range around 13TH and 12 Watts.

Not sure where you got your data but I wouldnt be sharing that information since it is not true.

He received it from the manufacturer, as did I.  Why do you feel it's not true?
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January 22, 2018, 08:07:00 PM
 #164

@fanatic26

I can confirm that it is a legit message from Steven.

It's a typo. It should say that the A841 performance should range around 13TH and 1.2 kW.

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January 22, 2018, 09:30:01 PM
 #165

@fanatic26

I can confirm that it is a legit message from Steven.

It's a typo. It should say that the A841 performance should range around 13TH and 1.2 kW.

No price for the 841s?  Seems 821's will still be shipping in March so there are some considerations

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January 22, 2018, 10:18:58 PM
 #166

He received it from the manufacturer, as did I.  Why do you feel it's not true?

Because I didnt pay that much *shrugs*

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January 23, 2018, 06:06:06 AM
 #167


Avalon  841 release:

The 841  should start shipping in the March April time frame. Performance should range around 13TH and 12 Watts.

 Nice typo (on Avalon's part).

 8-O

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January 23, 2018, 04:10:10 PM
 #168

At over $3000 per unit for the 821s with only 11TH, how does anyone breakeven on this investment unless they have free power? The calculators say it would take over 1 year for me to break even assuming difficulty never rises from current levels. So why is everyone snatching up these 821s at triple the price of the 741s? Are they all hoping BTC is going to jump to the moon again like last year?
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January 23, 2018, 09:40:57 PM
 #169

(1) they're not shipping yet
(2) there is no official price on them yet.
(3) NOBODY is "snatching up these 821s" because they're NOT AVAILABLE YET.


 Their *SPECULATED* price is triple the 741 based on the price spike Bitcoin had a couple weeks back and the resulting Bitmain S9 pricing on THEIR last batch.

 If Bitcoin stays around it's current price, the 821 likely will end up selling close to $2000.

 They can get away with higher pricing than the S9 even when the performance is lower due to the far lower FAILURE rate they have compared to the S9.


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January 23, 2018, 09:59:41 PM
 #170

(1) they're not shipping yet
(2) there is no official price on them yet.
(3) NOBODY is "snatching up these 821s" because they're NOT AVAILABLE YET.


 Their *SPECULATED* price is triple the 741 based on the price spike Bitcoin had a couple weeks back and the resulting Bitmain S9 pricing on THEIR last batch.

 If Bitcoin stays around it's current price, the 821 likely will end up selling close to $2000.

 They can get away with higher pricing than the S9 even when the performance is lower due to the far lower FAILURE rate they have compared to the S9.



What he said. 
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January 23, 2018, 11:50:11 PM
 #171

Latest posted price is $2899 for a single A821 on the Blokforge website. Is somebody expecting that to actually come down within a week? This is down from the earlier $3600 price, but I don't see anything to suggest $2000 at all.
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January 24, 2018, 02:42:37 AM
 #172

(1) they're not shipping yet
(2) there is no official price on them yet.
(3) NOBODY is "snatching up these 821s" because they're NOT AVAILABLE YET.


 Their *SPECULATED* price is triple the 741 based on the price spike Bitcoin had a couple weeks back and the resulting Bitmain S9 pricing on THEIR last batch.

 If Bitcoin stays around it's current price, the 821 likely will end up selling close to $2000.

 They can get away with higher pricing than the S9 even when the performance is lower due to the far lower FAILURE rate they have compared to the S9.



They haven't shipped out yet from Canaan, but they are available. I think they are on schedule for the pre-order shipping from Blokforge of February 7th; based on the last mass email from Canaan. These units were priced at a "premium" due to the fact that I think there were only 200 available for the early ship date, half with crypto universe and the other half with Blokforge.

The price they originally charged I'm sure had everything to do with capitalizing on the surge in price of BTC, I'm not shocked Canaan went that route, but it was a far cry from the estimated 200$/TH they were estimating back in November.

If the current price of BTC stays relatively the same I do think that Canaan will reduce the price point to be closer to their original estimates, but the price will be subject to distributor mark ups.

As for the snatching up, people did slow their roll a little at least that's what I saw with stock actually sitting out a while on the Blokforge site. Probably due to the high price tag and the drop in BTC value. They are still selling out though, and the nice thing right now is Blokforge posts in their thread for Forum members when they have extra available from orders that fall through.

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January 24, 2018, 07:27:34 PM
 #173

ROI is appalling if Bitcoin goes into a 6month - 1 year bear market for sure. But I guess I'm willing to brave that storm.........unless I get hit by a literal storm, then I'm fucked lol
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January 24, 2018, 08:40:35 PM
 #174

ROI is appalling if Bitcoin goes into a 6month - 1 year bear market for sure. But I guess I'm willing to brave that storm.........unless I get hit by a literal storm, then I'm fucked lol
ROI used to be a long process before Bitcoin started going up in price, people have been spoiled by fast returns and profits recently with not only alts but also BTC. So as long as you keep mining on you'll be fine.

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January 25, 2018, 12:35:35 AM
 #175

(1) they're not shipping yet
(2) there is no official price on them yet.
(3) NOBODY is "snatching up these 821s" because they're NOT AVAILABLE YET.


 Their *SPECULATED* price is triple the 741 based on the price spike Bitcoin had a couple weeks back and the resulting Bitmain S9 pricing on THEIR last batch.

 If Bitcoin stays around it's current price, the 821 likely will end up selling close to $2000.

 They can get away with higher pricing than the S9 even when the performance is lower due to the far lower FAILURE rate they have compared to the S9.



Actually there is a price of 2899$ for march batch. Im in one of the minerwarez 741 batches from december they turned our order into a 821 order

And they are shipping in february a batch for 3500$

ROI is appalling if Bitcoin goes into a 6month - 1 year bear market for sure. But I guess I'm willing to brave that storm.........unless I get hit by a literal storm, then I'm fucked lol
ROI used to be a long process before Bitcoin started going up in price, people have been spoiled by fast returns and profits recently with not only alts but also BTC. So as long as you keep mining on you'll be fine.

Totally agree, ROI was in 10 12 months before and even that i great. What business pays itself in 1 year? NONE
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January 25, 2018, 05:48:11 AM
 #176

True that my brothers, maybe I got spoiled a bit......I forgot the S7 days lol, but the landscape drastically changed, I fear we might be in an ASIC arms race 2.0. thats the onlything I worry about
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January 25, 2018, 02:21:17 PM
 #177

factory pricing

 The price of A821 is $2200 USD per unit for March.
 The price of PSU(1800W 93%) is $110 USD per unit.
 
The current spot price of A821 is $3500.00 USD per unit.  Grin Grin Grin Grin

I think with $2000 USD price tag they would gather more attention. But who cares , they are going to sell off anyway.

Market needs 3 competitors, and we can barely see 2 now.
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January 25, 2018, 02:28:50 PM
 #178

factory pricing

 The price of A821 is $2200 USD per unit for March.
 The price of PSU(1800W 93%) is $110 USD per unit.
 
The current spot price of A821 is $3500.00 USD per unit.  Grin Grin Grin Grin

I think with $2000 USD price tag they would gather more attention. But who cares , they are going to sell off anyway.

Market needs 3 competitors, and we can barely see 2 now.

There are currently 4 companies delivering miners. All that happened is prices rose with BTC pricing and the fact that they can't keep them in stock.

With Avalon the price had always been a little higher; call it the quality/longevity premium.

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January 29, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
 #179


3800€ a8 alone , pre order at europe reseller......So 18000€ on ebay ?  Smiley

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January 29, 2018, 04:50:47 PM
 #180


3800€ a8 alone , pre order at europe reseller......So 18000€ on ebay ?  Smiley
not really, it's 2880 EUR for miner alone.

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January 29, 2018, 06:02:57 PM
 #181

Your theory that Canaan would lower prices to $2000 per A821 with bitcoin pricing hovering around 11K just went out the window. They just raised their bulk pricing drastically. The A821 by itself is $3150 at bulk pricing. Which is going to take over a year to breakeven at $0.10/kWh and if Bitcoin remains in a bear market, you can forget about breaking even. Most people don't or can't factor in the declining revenue stream as difficulty goes up weekly and more miners come online. That 1 Year ROI keeps stretching month by month so that 1 year is no longer 1 year a month later!
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January 29, 2018, 06:14:35 PM
 #182


3800€ a8 alone , pre order at europe reseller......So 18000€ on ebay ?  Smiley
not really, it's 2880 EUR for miner alone.


Euh....Have you just checked ? Because I pretty sure it was that price ( 3800 ) , on crtpt...verse . Just checked now and it true that it's 2880€.
Or I did a mistake. We'll never know so I'm innocent !

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January 29, 2018, 07:21:44 PM
 #183

The reason Canaan Creative has not been able to keep up with bitmain when they were the company that created the first asic is their pricing. It has never been competitive, and looks like it never will be if the prices listed in this thread are true. It really too bad because they do have the best product on the market.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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January 29, 2018, 10:26:17 PM
 #184

So a question... Anyone thought whether it will be possible to run an 821 on the same PSU that a 741 was running on... One of the HP server PSU's and DPS-1200-FB-1A - on 240v?  I think on paper the 741 and 821 draw the same wattage don't they?  If so, then it should be feasible.
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January 29, 2018, 10:32:54 PM
 #185

So a question... Anyone thought whether it will be possible to run an 821 on the same PSU that a 741 was running on... One of the HP server PSU's and DPS-1200-FB-1A - on 240v?  I think on paper the 741 and 821 draw the same wattage don't they?  If so, then it should be feasible.
We know more about that after we have seen a actual power consumption measurement.

I'm planning to power A821 first with Sorcerer psu (Canaan custom psu) and then with DPS-1200MB-1 1400W server psu and then compare those power consumption measurement results.



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January 30, 2018, 02:21:12 PM
Merited by frodocooper (3)
 #186

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February 01, 2018, 10:22:16 AM
 #187

Here is an update for packaging for the 821; and presumably the entire 8 series.

Miners will now ship with a 5 pin cable; No AUC included.

The controllers will ship out with 4 AUC's.

This is their plan to deal with the supply issues of AUC's; so it will make sense for people to order 1 of the Canaan controllers. This probably also explains the price increase there was on controllers.

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February 01, 2018, 12:58:47 PM
 #188

Here is an update for packaging for the 821; and presumably the entire 8 series.

Miners will now ship with a 5 pin cable; No AUC included.

The controllers will ship out with 4 AUC's.

This is their plan to deal with the supply issues of AUC's; so it will make sense for people to order 1 of the Canaan controllers. This probably also explains the price increase there was on controllers.

I hope the old AUCs work with the new 8 series or I'm screwed
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February 02, 2018, 03:05:36 AM
 #189

True that my brothers, maybe I got spoiled a bit......I forgot the S7 days lol, but the landscape drastically changed, I fear we might be in an ASIC arms race 2.0. thats the onlything I worry about

Hi Thetaj,

What would be wrong with ASIC 2.0 race?

More innovation is always welcome.  We have an effective monopoly today, and that's never good for business.
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February 02, 2018, 05:21:58 AM
 #190

True that my brothers, maybe I got spoiled a bit......I forgot the S7 days lol, but the landscape drastically changed, I fear we might be in an ASIC arms race 2.0. thats the onlything I worry about

Hi Thetaj,

What would be wrong with ASIC 2.0 race?

More innovation is always welcome.  We have an effective monopoly today, and that's never good for business.

Because trading a wolf for a Tiger is not really a trade. We're still screwed either way.
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February 02, 2018, 06:49:39 PM
 #191

True that my brothers, maybe I got spoiled a bit......I forgot the S7 days lol, but the landscape drastically changed, I fear we might be in an ASIC arms race 2.0. thats the onlything I worry about

Hi Thetaj,

What would be wrong with ASIC 2.0 race?

More innovation is always welcome.  We have an effective monopoly today, and that's never good for business.

Because trading a wolf for a Tiger is not really a trade. We're still screwed either way.

Tiger is a little bit faster though.   So it's a start. 
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February 02, 2018, 10:25:39 PM
 #192

Don't the Avalons need one AUC per miner?
If so how is shipping a few of them out with a controller make ANY sense?


Then again, I wish they would just get rid of the whole AUC stupidity.


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February 02, 2018, 11:25:59 PM
 #193

Don't the Avalons need one AUC per miner?
If so how is shipping a few of them out with a controller make ANY sense?


Then again, I wish they would just get rid of the whole AUC stupidity.


1 AUC per 5/6 machines.
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February 03, 2018, 01:05:19 AM
 #194

Don't the Avalons need one AUC per miner?
If so how is shipping a few of them out with a controller make ANY sense?

Then again, I wish they would just get rid of the whole AUC stupidity.


You need 1 AUC for 5 Avalons. That way with the 1 controller you can set up to 20 machines.

Yeah more parts usually means more thins to go wrong, but I imagine if they designed an internal controller the price would go up; based on a redesign and extra manufacturing costs.

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February 03, 2018, 10:24:20 PM
 #195


Here is a video for those that are just beginning with this setup.

https://youtu.be/z8r0tbUmgCU

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February 04, 2018, 12:18:15 AM
 #196

Quote
Here is a video for those that are just beginning with this setup.

https://youtu.be/z8r0tbUmgCU

Thanks blokforge. From what I can tell is the same setup as the 741. We just have to be careful with the firmware software in the controller.

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February 04, 2018, 01:57:43 AM
 #197

Don't the Avalons need one AUC per miner?
If so how is shipping a few of them out with a controller make ANY sense?

Then again, I wish they would just get rid of the whole AUC stupidity.


You need 1 AUC for 5 Avalons. That way with the 1 controller you can set up to 20 machines.

Yeah more parts usually means more thins to go wrong, but I imagine if they designed an internal controller the price would go up; based on a redesign and extra manufacturing costs.

 Tradeoff is the AUC becomes a point source for failure on multiple miners, as does the controller.

 Given that the AUC is a very non-standard part, that's a significant potential ISSUE - and one reason Avalon may be short on the AUC units is folks with multiple miners buying "spares" for "just in case one FAILS" since they can't get a replacement for it anywhere else.




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February 05, 2018, 01:19:16 PM
 #198

I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.
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February 05, 2018, 03:18:48 PM
 #199

I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.

I almost did but was one of those people who couldn't load the cart quick enough. Now I'm glad I didn't. Apart from the massive difficulty increase sure to happen in March when all the new miners arrive, there's also been rumors of new and more powerful miners coming out soon.

Seems best to just invest in bitcoin directly.
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February 05, 2018, 06:26:28 PM
 #200

Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.
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February 07, 2018, 07:48:27 PM
 #201

Just a heads up, I would highly recommend avoiding one of their official distributors, Minerwarez
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2277516.140

They were offering Avalon 8 upgrades for more money, or a refund.
Regardless of which options you took, no response has been given for quite some time now, and Canaan has yet to respond.

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February 07, 2018, 08:06:08 PM
 #202

I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.

Here is what it would look like if BTC/USD was at $15,000.00. From what I can see buying BTC at this low rate vs hardware purchase of this type makes business sense.

Here is the document for reference.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11QS1BBV11KNGTF8N_-fdfmjTZ3WzPQFbLfVrl5n6R8s/edit?usp=sharing

I have both price adjusted target increase of 5% and true hardware adoption increase of at estimate rate of 10% per difficulty target.

Estimates if BTC/USD Trading at $8,500.00 USD


https://i.imgur.com/CexYmwC.png

Estimates if BTC/USD Trading at $15,000.00 USD

https://i.imgur.com/3Oa8rV5.png

^ updated to reflect proper name and other purchase options,
Update #2: Reflect Recent Difficulty Change.

Update: Nothing in the this post shall constitute or be construed as an offering of financial instruments or as investment advice or investment recommendations (i.e., recommendations as to whether or not to “buy”, “sell”, “hold”, or to enter or not to enter into any other transaction involving any specific interest or interests) This document is for awareness and at the users discretion for educational purposes.
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February 07, 2018, 08:26:48 PM
 #203

Considering that you may not have this hardware until sometime in march I have taken the yearly average of 10% network difficulty increase and applied it for when you are expected to start receiving the hardware.

Here is an estimate of the network difficulty as of March 2018.

Results for BTC/USD estimated trading price at $8500.00 USD
Estimated March 23 2018 Difficulty 3,811,165,475,251



Results for BTC/USD estimated trading price at $15000.00 USD
Estimated March 23 2018 Difficulty 3,811,165,475,251

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February 08, 2018, 01:31:17 AM
 #204

Just a heads up, I would highly recommend avoiding one of their official distributors, Minerwarez
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2277516.140

They were offering Avalon 8 upgrades for more money, or a refund.
Regardless of which options you took, no response has been given for quite some time now, and Canaan has yet to respond.

I HIGHLY AGREE DO NOT BUY FROM MINERWAREZ!!! You might want to avoid anything from Canaan altogether!

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February 10, 2018, 07:07:18 AM
 #205

I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.

At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in....
Price should go down to $1100-1200usd?

Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.

These people do not know wat they are doing....

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February 10, 2018, 06:21:20 PM
 #206

I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.

At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in....
Price should go down to $1100-1200usd?

Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.

These people do not know wat they are doing....

This is why I was livid when the 741’s went to $1400 and my order of 6 of them (at $795 each) never shipped.
Because bitcoin price is volatile, and to just deem your 12 month old hardware 2x as expensive is BULLSHIT!

Here’s the deal Canaan! When you say you base the price of your miners depending on bitcoins price you’re just lying
If it doesn’t go down when the price of bitcoin falls. And when the price of bitcoin rises the difficulty rises with it so it’s harder to mine. So profit is less then too.

For a company to be such opportunist like this is bullshit.
I’m not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know. Unless your buying 7.3 terrahash for 2k.

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February 10, 2018, 09:47:52 PM
 #207

I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.

At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in....
Price should go down to $1100-1200usd?

Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.

These people do not know wat they are doing....

 Do keep in mind that when those prices were SET Bitcoin was almost double what it is now.

 I DO agree Caanan needs to drop the prices to reflect current Bitcoin pricing - they've been WAY too slow to respond to the crash.

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February 11, 2018, 02:34:47 AM
 #208

I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.

At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in....
Price should go down to $1100-1200usd?

Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.

These people do not know wat they are doing....

This is why I was livid when the 741’s went to $1400 and my order of 6 of them (at $795 each) never shipped.
Because bitcoin price is volatile, and to just deem your 12 month old hardware 2x as expensive is BULLSHIT!

Here’s the deal Canaan! When you say you base the price of your miners depending on bitcoins price you’re just lying
If it doesn’t go down when the price of bitcoin falls. And when the price of bitcoin rises the difficulty rises with it so it’s harder to mine. So profit is less then too.

For a company to be such opportunist like this is bullshit.
I’m not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know. Unless your buying 7.3 terrahash for 2k.

Wat u mean by they never shipped? They just cancelled the order?

I got a feeling they wont decrease price. They have buyer due sensationalized media news on how mining is so great. These new miners wont break even and will be feeling alot of pain...

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February 11, 2018, 03:38:42 AM
 #209

I cant help but wonder what is ppl thinking for paying 3500$ for a 11th miner? thats a 14 month to ROI without any diff increase.

At 5 cents electricity, it is now 16-17 months, 480-510 days. At 10 cents electricity, it is 20 months, 600 days. That isnt possible. This is without difficulty increase and new stronger machines coming in....
Price should go down to $1100-1200usd?

Lucky for you someone else beat you to checkout because ROI is now 848 days for an A821 at $3500 & 0.10/kWh. Which basically means never! All those ebayers are still paying $3500 for an S9 and $2000 for an A741 too.

These people do not know wat they are doing....

This is why I was livid when the 741’s went to $1400 and my order of 6 of them (at $795 each) never shipped.
Because bitcoin price is volatile, and to just deem your 12 month old hardware 2x as expensive is BULLSHIT!

Here’s the deal Canaan! When you say you base the price of your miners depending on bitcoins price you’re just lying
If it doesn’t go down when the price of bitcoin falls. And when the price of bitcoin rises the difficulty rises with it so it’s harder to mine. So profit is less then too.

For a company to be such opportunist like this is bullshit.
I’m not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know. Unless your buying 7.3 terrahash for 2k.

Wat u mean by they never shipped? They just cancelled the order?

I got a feeling they wont decrease price. They have buyer due sensationalized media news on how mining is so great. These new miners wont break even and will be feeling alot of pain...

They never shipped, I ordered on October 2017. And they were supposed to ship December 5th. Minerwarez continued to promise the miners for several weeks after this. Then one day they decided not to ship them and backed out of their promise to ship them and then offered the 821s at zero discount and they wouldn’t ship until March. LOL!! Like bro, I’ve already received 2 shipments from bitmain since then. GFY! Asked for a refund, then called my credit card company and they said they “MinerWarez” were fraudulent. I won’t buy anything from Canaan EVER again.

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February 11, 2018, 06:35:55 AM
 #210

Theres alot of new customers and the mining space is growing exponentially, so yea. Alot of us that have been mining for years will be forced out if we aren't already or haven't been able to become a big mine with large working capital. Even then, we may not make it. Sorry guys, its just the way it is. We wanted Bitcoin to become universal, that means Mining will from now on be a very quick race to the absolute bottom of profittability. That also means that Canaan and Bitmain and other ASIC manufacturers of today will also feel the pain in a few years time. Newer hardware is coming, they know this and they are trying to do everything they can right now to make their last ditch profit. Because shit, they may not even be around in 2 years time.
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February 12, 2018, 03:58:57 AM
 #211

Theres alot of new customers and the mining space is growing exponentially, so yea. Alot of us that have been mining for years will be forced out if we aren't already or haven't been able to become a big mine with large working capital. Even then, we may not make it. Sorry guys, its just the way it is. We wanted Bitcoin to become universal, that means Mining will from now on be a very quick race to the absolute bottom of profittability. That also means that Canaan and Bitmain and other ASIC manufacturers of today will also feel the pain in a few years time. Newer hardware is coming, they know this and they are trying to do everything they can right now to make their last ditch profit. Because shit, they may not even be around in 2 years time.

Gpus bro plain and simple

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 12, 2018, 10:15:15 AM
 #212

Theres alot of new customers and the mining space is growing exponentially, so yea. Alot of us that have been mining for years will be forced out if we aren't already or haven't been able to become a big mine with large working capital. Even then, we may not make it. Sorry guys, its just the way it is. We wanted Bitcoin to become universal, that means Mining will from now on be a very quick race to the absolute bottom of profittability. That also means that Canaan and Bitmain and other ASIC manufacturers of today will also feel the pain in a few years time. Newer hardware is coming, they know this and they are trying to do everything they can right now to make their last ditch profit. Because shit, they may not even be around in 2 years time.

Gpus bro plain and simple

Stop brainwashing me Phil!
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February 12, 2018, 06:07:40 PM
 #213

They never shipped, I ordered on October 2017. And they were supposed to ship December 5th. Minerwarez continued to promise the miners for several weeks after this. Then one day they decided not to ship them and backed out of their promise to ship them and then offered the 821s at zero discount and they wouldn’t ship until March. LOL!! Like bro, I’ve already received 2 shipments from bitmain since then. GFY! Asked for a refund, then called my credit card company and they said they “MinerWarez” were fraudulent. I won’t buy anything from Canaan EVER again.

Wow, thats very unexpected. And that is outright cheating.... U did get your money back right? What did canaan say about it. U did use an authorized canaan retailer right?

Theres alot of new customers and the mining space is growing exponentially, so yea. Alot of us that have been mining for years will be forced out if we aren't already or haven't been able to become a big mine with large working capital. Even then, we may not make it. Sorry guys, its just the way it is. We wanted Bitcoin to become universal, that means Mining will from now on be a very quick race to the absolute bottom of profittability. That also means that Canaan and Bitmain and other ASIC manufacturers of today will also feel the pain in a few years time. Newer hardware is coming, they know this and they are trying to do everything they can right now to make their last ditch profit. Because shit, they may not even be around in 2 years time.

This looks like it will be the case. In general, mining would be unprofitable for all if it goes this way. I wrote two topics on this recently. It seems that there will always be high difficulty increases because the average buyer does not take into account difficulty increases and other risks. News and media also push them into mining.

If this difficulty increase keeps up, the winner wont be the home miners or the big miners, the winner will be the fellow who just buys bitcoin and holds it. Why? Because difficulty rise up so much that even with the cheapest electricity, u gonna make more just holding bitcoin.

So,
If bitcoin drops = miners will make huge losses. Bitcoin holders make some losses.

If bitcoin price stagnates = miners dont make money because difficulty rise alot over time and higher cost miners switch off machines while lower cost miners make like 50-60 bucks per machine LOL. Machine will likely break before they break even. Bitcoin holders make nothing.

If bitcoin price rise alot = miners make some money. Bitcoin holders make alot more money

Asic manufacturers will still make money from selling ASICS but make nothing much or lose money from mining.



(Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove multiple nested quotes.)

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