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Author Topic: why do people buy computers, with possible trojans pre-installed?  (Read 3068 times)
kokjo
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July 05, 2011, 01:48:19 PM
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yes im talking about windows, i simply can't understand why sooo many people cares so much about their privacy, and still uses windows.
the windows users have no way of knowing what microsoft does to them. i do not say microsoft does this things, im only saying they can do it!
can anyone please explain this for me? im simply incapable of understanding it.

use open source i say!

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 05, 2011, 02:11:46 PM
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I personally can't be bothered with spending my whole weekend trying to get a webcam, scanner, or mobile broadband modem to work under linux, acquiring lots of technical knowledge that is practically worthless because it will be out of date in a few years.  I mean, don't you have better stuff to do in your precious free time?

I know that this  is not entirely the fault of linux but of the peripherals manufacturers who don't make drivers for linux, but what can I do about that?

Generally, linux sucks for multimedia stuff.

I like to use linux for coding though. But for that I can run it in a VM.

For secure stuff like online banking, I do use a separate linux netbook anyhow.

Why not benefit from the best of both worlds?
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July 05, 2011, 02:16:17 PM
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I don't know what you mean by explaining to you, your point? I probably misunderstood but back to your thoery that's why I have reason to believe that other platforms like linux and mac arn't so easy to break into(I do realise that because windows is more popular it will be attacked more often and that more security holes will be found, blah, blah,blah). Mainly becuase theres a bunch of junk tracking software embedded right into the core files and possibly ridiculously high compression rates for transmitting such data heck it probubly just laches on to port 80 requests and gets sent out with the data.

Anyways I dont know what your question had to do with pre installed trojans in connection with windows but thats the best I could come up with.
If you asking why do people buy windows computers with windows already on it preinstalled by joe-shmo, I would probubly say they are either knowledgable or not and would hopefully wipe the harddrive.
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July 05, 2011, 02:19:35 PM
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I personally can't be bothered with spending my whole weekend trying to get a webcam, scanner, or mobile broadband modem to work under linux, acquiring lots of technical knowledge that is practically worthless because it will be out of date in a few years.  I mean, don't you have better stuff to do in your precious free time?

I know that this  is not entirely the fault of linux but of the peripherals manufacturers who don't make drivers for linux, but what can I do about that?

Generally, linux sucks for multimedia stuff.

I like to use linux for coding though. But for that I can run it in a VM.

For secure stuff like online banking, I do use a separate linux netbook anyhow.

Why not benefit from the best of both worlds?
linux doesnot suck for multimedia stuff.
i actually found is better then windows, because of the drm lockin windows and apple haves.

it is not hard to get all the stuff working  you are talking about.
it works out of the box in ubuntu desktop(not using it very much, im using gentoo for laptop, and ubuntu for my server, it sould be opersite). i dont know about the scanner, i dont have one. but webcam and mobile broadband, it just works.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 05, 2011, 02:28:41 PM
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I don't know what you mean by explaining to you, your point? I probably misunderstood but back to your thoery that's why I have reason to believe that other platforms like linux and mac arn't so easy to break into(I do realise that because windows is more popular it will be attacked more often and that more security holes will be found, blah, blah,blah). Mainly becuase theres a bunch of junk tracking software embedded right into the core files and possibly ridiculously high compression rates for transmitting such data heck it probubly just laches on to port 80 requests and gets sent out with the data.
[/qoute]
im not talking about braking in, there can be flaws in all OSes, and there are in linux, mac, and windows.
im only saying, that windows is closed source, and because of that, microsoft can control anything on your computer.

[qoute]
Anyways I dont know what your question had to do with pre installed trojans in connection with windows but thats the best I could come up with.
If you asking why do people buy windows computers with windows already on it preinstalled by joe-shmo, I would probubly say they are either knowledgable or not and would hopefully wipe the harddrive.
im think that windows is a trojan, plain and simple. its installed on nearly every sold computer in the world. therefor i call it a pre installed trojan.

again we can even take it a step further, why do people chose closed source systems like: BIOS, microcode, malware built in the processor. why not open source it all? and be free from the threat from closed source?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 05, 2011, 02:35:41 PM
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yes im talking about windows, i simply can't understand why sooo many people cares so much about their privacy, and still uses windows.
the windows users have no way of knowing what microsoft does to them. i do not say microsoft does this things, im only saying they can do it!
can anyone please explain this for me? im simply incapable of understanding it.

use open source i say!

Well it's a question of thrust. Even if the source code is open, I don't have time to check it.

I trust Microsoft not to put trojan, they are under much more sructiny and have much more to lose than a guy in his basement producing open source software.

Plus on Windows 7 with the UAC activated it's probably harder to have some stuff installed without you knowing that on a Linux box.

Also, it's fun to annoy Linux geeks by using Windows  Wink

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July 05, 2011, 03:30:11 PM
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Quote
Well it's a question of thrust. Even if the source code is open, I don't have time to check it.
correct, but you don't have to check it, you know that some will screem if there was malicious code in linux.
 
Quote
I trust Microsoft not to put trojan, they are under much more sructiny and have much more to lose than a guy in his basement producing open source software.
true, but why trust anyone when you don't have to. and you gets the same out of it.

Quote
Plus on Windows 7 with the UAC activated it's probably harder to have some stuff installed without you knowing that on a Linux box.
i dont think so, on linux you will need root privileges, before you can install anything harmful. you can also disallow a user not to execute anything, that is not whitelisted by root, this is not able by default.
but this is not what im talking about, im talking about that MS can invade your computer via windows update, if they want to.
true there are also auto updating features in linux distros, but they are opensource. you can see anythink with linux, but you dont have any clue what is happning on a windows.

Quote
Also, it's fun to annoy Linux geeks by using Windows  Wink
LOL! yes linux geeks gets annoyed by it. im a linux geek, true. but right now im more curious, then annoyed. Smiley

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 05, 2011, 03:49:21 PM
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Linux has found its niche. It's great for businesses which need to scale, that is to say, expand radically without the need to purchase extra licenses. Linux is a true success in that market.

For the mainstream user, well, are you so out of touch with soccer moms and the rest of the world?

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July 05, 2011, 04:01:48 PM
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I don't know about pre-installed trojans, but I wonder why people would pay 150€ (+license-software) for what they could get free. You trim linux once in to the shape and it's good for years (albeit updating more often is a good idea Wink ). With M$ you can hardly go three days without having to update. And funny thing is that on default the system tells you what to do, not the other way around.
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July 05, 2011, 05:31:34 PM
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Linux has found its niche. It's great for businesses which need to scale, that is to say, expand radically without the need to purchase extra licenses. Linux is a true success in that market.

For the mainstream user, well, are you so out of touch with soccer moms and the rest of the world?
i have tryed windows and mac and *bsd. i like linux best, it has more features. it is also more beautiful, then windows and mac. look at compiz.

im not out of touch with the world. you are dear windows user. did you ever try linux?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
kokjo
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July 05, 2011, 05:34:41 PM
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I don't know about pre-installed trojans, but I wonder why people would pay 150€ (+license-software) for what they could get free. You trim linux once in to the shape and it's good for years (albeit updating more often is a good idea Wink ). With M$ you can hardly go three days without having to update. And funny thing is that on default the system tells you what to do, not the other way around.
windows is the pre-installed (possible) trojan.
i also update often, there are security holes in linux too.

but with windows you need to trust microsoft, you don't have any clue about what happens on your computer, because windows is closed source.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 05, 2011, 05:36:34 PM
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as for buying computers, i wouldn't know - haven't bought anything but parts for over twenty years.

where OSs are concerned, i mostly use linux - but i keep XP on a VM, and i have a gaming hard drive ready to boot when i'm in the mood.

it doesn't really matter though - all OSs do the same thing in pretty much the same way.  it's more a matter of figuring out where stuff is, than anything else.
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July 05, 2011, 05:37:18 PM
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I personally can't be bothered with spending my whole weekend trying to get a webcam, scanner, or mobile broadband modem to work under linux, acquiring lots of technical knowledge that is practically worthless because it will be out of date in a few years.  I mean, don't you have better stuff to do in your precious free time?

I know that this  is not entirely the fault of linux but of the peripherals manufacturers who don't make drivers for linux, but what can I do about that?

Generally, linux sucks for multimedia stuff.

I like to use linux for coding though. But for that I can run it in a VM.

For secure stuff like online banking, I do use a separate linux netbook anyhow.

Why not benefit from the best of both worlds?
You tried to run Gentoo?

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July 05, 2011, 05:48:15 PM
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yes im talking about windows, i simply can't understand why sooo many people cares so much about their privacy, and still uses windows.
the windows users have no way of knowing what microsoft does to them. i do not say microsoft does this things, im only saying they can do it!
can anyone please explain this for me? im simply incapable of understanding it.

use open source i say!

 Microsoft already pulls in billions of dollars with Windows.  What possible motivation would they have to install a trojan?  Are they going to steal your bank account infoz too? 



 

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July 05, 2011, 05:57:23 PM
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yes im talking about windows, i simply can't understand why sooo many people cares so much about their privacy, and still uses windows.
the windows users have no way of knowing what microsoft does to them. i do not say microsoft does this things, im only saying they can do it!
can anyone please explain this for me? im simply incapable of understanding it.

use open source i say!

 Microsoft already pulls in billions of dollars with Windows.  What possible motivation would they have to install a trojan?  Are they going to steal your bank account infoz too? 



 

There is only one thing that companies and people with money want: more money.

And some companies do that by collecting and selling data.

Like my post(s)? 12TSXLa5Tu6ag4PNYCwKKSiZsaSCpAjzpu Smiley
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kokjo
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July 05, 2011, 05:59:47 PM
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I personally can't be bothered with spending my whole weekend trying to get a webcam, scanner, or mobile broadband modem to work under linux, acquiring lots of technical knowledge that is practically worthless because it will be out of date in a few years.  I mean, don't you have better stuff to do in your precious free time?

I know that this  is not entirely the fault of linux but of the peripherals manufacturers who don't make drivers for linux, but what can I do about that?

Generally, linux sucks for multimedia stuff.

I like to use linux for coding though. But for that I can run it in a VM.

For secure stuff like online banking, I do use a separate linux netbook anyhow.

Why not benefit from the best of both worlds?
You tried to run Gentoo?
its likely. gentoo is a good geek distro. but it absolutely not for noobs, or people who does not want to learn.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
kokjo
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July 05, 2011, 06:00:55 PM
 #17

yes im talking about windows, i simply can't understand why sooo many people cares so much about their privacy, and still uses windows.
the windows users have no way of knowing what microsoft does to them. i do not say microsoft does this things, im only saying they can do it!
can anyone please explain this for me? im simply incapable of understanding it.

use open source i say!

 Microsoft already pulls in billions of dollars with Windows.  What possible motivation would they have to install a trojan?  Are they going to steal your bank account infoz too? 
i did not say that. i just said that they can. and there are no reason to trust them.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 05, 2011, 06:21:40 PM
 #18

This strikes me as a little FUDdy.

Windows has huge security holes. Being closed source, only MS can vet it. So yes, It's not as safe as Linux.

But a pre-installed trojan? Might be a bit much, don't you think?

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kokjo
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July 05, 2011, 06:34:07 PM
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This strikes me as a little FUDdy.

Windows has huge security holes. Being closed source, only MS can vet it. So yes, It's not as safe as Linux.

But a pre-installed trojan? Might be a bit much, don't you think?
a little bit, maybe. but microsoft can control any windows computer.
im not saying they do it, but they can.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 05, 2011, 06:42:28 PM
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This strikes me as a little FUDdy.

Windows has huge security holes. Being closed source, only MS can vet it. So yes, It's not as safe as Linux.

But a pre-installed trojan? Might be a bit much, don't you think?
a little bit, maybe. but microsoft can control any windows computer.
im not saying they do it, but they can.

It seems to me that once Microsoft activates their hidden trojans and starts to spy on ordinary users, the financial loss from future windows sales would be a lot more then what they can get out of people.
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