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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875471 times)
Simon Barber
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October 18, 2013, 05:16:01 AM
 #1441

Why two power supplies?  How are 3 modules connected to two power supplies?  Are they producing redundancy?  If so how is that achieved? Is each power supply connected to each board (would imply two power connections pwe board)?  Wouldn't one large power supply be sufficient, cheaper, and take up less space?

For our mining rigs we have chosen to specify power supplies that are rated 20% higher than the highest wattage we expect even including significant overclocking. The GN chip uses 250W at nominal, and we have designed all the systems to handle upto 350W. When the mini motherboard is supplying 350W to the chip (this level of overclock should result in up to 540GH/s) the mini motherboard may consume up to 411W of 12v, due to losses in the VRM. Add 25W for fans, and you get to 436W per mini-motherboard. Multiply by 3 chips in the Sierra, and you get about 1300W. We've added a safety margin of 20% extra on top of this - so we needed power supplies that were rated to a minimum of 1560W @ 12v to meet these specifications, and maintain the headroom and margin we desired to ensure reliable, efficient long term operation.

There are very few manufacturers who make single 1600W supplies, and we didn't find a single unit from a high quality vendor. In addition this size of supply is more expensive than 2 smaller supplies. The Sea Sonic supplies are really well built, and even significantly overbuilt. In all tests they are capable of supplying power well above their ratings, and the output regulation is very accurate and smooth. They handle hot operating environments very well. Please go read the reviews of the supplies in the Sierra - the Sea Sonic X-850FM3.

http://hardocp.com/article/2013/04/04/seasonic_xseries_x850_power_supply_review/9#.UmDCKVCcc5g
http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/seasonic-x-series-850w-km3-power-supply-review/7/

Each GN chip is on it's own mini-motherboard, and each mini-motherboard has 2 separate 6 pin PCI-E power connectors. Each of the supplies feeds 3 of these connectors.
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cypherdoc
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October 18, 2013, 05:24:51 AM
 #1442

these will be well worth the wait.
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October 18, 2013, 05:36:29 AM
 #1443

Why two power supplies?  How are 3 modules connected to two power supplies?  Are they producing redundancy?  If so how is that achieved? Is each power supply connected to each board (would imply two power connections pwe board)?  Wouldn't one large power supply be sufficient, cheaper, and take up less space?

For our mining rigs we have chosen to specify power supplies that are rated 20% higher than the highest wattage we expect even including significant overclocking. The GN chip uses 250W at nominal, and we have designed all the systems to handle upto 350W. When the mini motherboard is supplying 350W to the chip (this level of overclock should result in up to 540GH/s) the mini motherboard may consume up to 411W of 12v, due to losses in the VRM. Add 25W for fans, and you get to 436W per mini-motherboard. Multiply by 3 chips in the Sierra, and you get about 1300W. We've added a safety margin of 20% extra on top of this - so we needed power supplies that were rated to a minimum of 1560W @ 12v to meet these specifications, and maintain the headroom and margin we desired to ensure reliable, efficient long term operation.

There are very few manufacturers who make single 1600W supplies, and we didn't find a single unit from a high quality vendor. In addition this size of supply is more expensive than 2 smaller supplies. The Sea Sonic supplies are really well built, and even significantly overbuilt. In all tests they are capable of supplying power well above their ratings, and the output regulation is very accurate and smooth. They handle hot operating environments very well. Please go read the reviews of the supplies in the Sierra - the Sea Sonic X-850FM3.

http://hardocp.com/article/2013/04/04/seasonic_xseries_x850_power_supply_review/9#.UmDCKVCcc5g
http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/seasonic-x-series-850w-km3-power-supply-review/7/

Each GN chip is on it's own mini-motherboard, and each mini-motherboard has 2 separate 6 pin PCI-E power connectors. Each of the supplies feeds 3 of these connectors.

would it matter how you arrange the 3 feeds from each psu to the 3 modules?  

in other words, is there some redundancy gained by sending 1 feed from one of the psu's to each of the 3 modules?
Amy Woodward
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October 18, 2013, 05:37:19 AM
 #1444

For our mining rigs we have chosen to specify power supplies that are rated 20% higher than the highest wattage we expect even including significant overclocking. The GN chip uses 250W at nominal, and we have designed all the systems to handle upto 350W. When the mini motherboard is supplying 350W to the chip (this level of overclock should result in up to 540GH/s) the mini motherboard may consume up to 411W of 12v, due to losses in the VRM. Add 25W for fans, and you get to 436W per mini-motherboard. Multiply by 3 chips in the Sierra, and you get about 1300W. We've added a safety margin of 20% extra on top of this - so we needed power supplies that were rated to a minimum of 1560W @ 12v to meet these specifications, and maintain the headroom and margin we desired to ensure reliable, efficient long term operation.

There are very few manufacturers who make single 1600W supplies, and we didn't find a single unit from a high quality vendor. In addition this size of supply is more expensive than 2 smaller supplies. The Sea Sonic supplies are really well built, and even significantly overbuilt. In all tests they are capable of supplying power well above their ratings, and the output regulation is very accurate and smooth. They handle hot operating environments very well. Please go read the reviews of the supplies in the Sierra - the Sea Sonic X-850FM3.

http://hardocp.com/article/2013/04/04/seasonic_xseries_x850_power_supply_review/9#.UmDCKVCcc5g


"... the X-850 is simply another excellent member of the X-Series of power supplies from Seasonic and users won't go wrong picking it up as it is generally better overall than any of the closest competition (Corsair AX850, Corsair HX850 Gold, and SilverStone ST-85F-G Evolution). At the end of the day, the decision is probably going to go in favor of the X-850 above those competitors if the prices are within ~$15-20, or so, of each other."

Seeing as HashFast is picking up the tab for the power supply, I'd say X-850 is good decision for the customers. Smiley

 

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October 18, 2013, 05:40:56 AM
 #1445


Seeing as HashFast is picking up the tab for the power supply, I'd say X-850 is good decision for the customers. Smiley

LOL... "picking up the tab" for the $300 worth of power supplies is a bit of a stretch when they're installed in the system users paid $5600 for.
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October 18, 2013, 05:54:50 AM
 #1446


Seeing as HashFast is picking up the tab for the power supply, I'd say X-850 is good decision for the customers. Smiley

LOL... "picking up the tab" for the $300 worth of power supplies is a bit of a stretch when they're installed in the system users paid $5600 for.

We don't want to skimp on any aspect of our hardware, especially an absolutely critical component like the PSU.

Given the problems our competition's customers experienced with PSU compatibility, we are applying that lesson to our own approach.

That's why we've negotiated a special relationship with Sea Sonic, the premier manufacturer of PSUs for the performance enthusiast market, and have chosen to include them with our ASICs to ensure smooth, successful turnkey deployments.

"Bitcoin enables ordinary people to fight back, to avoid and evade snooping governments, which enact, use and abuse laws that allow them, without due process, to investigate, tax, control and seize privately owned assets."  -   Leon Louw

“We can say without equivocation that firms like MasterCard, Visa and the TBTF banks like JPMorgan and Goldman hate the idea of ever having to compete for business again. They have grown comfortable in their corrupt world of writing laws for themselves without any regulatory oversight. They enjoy the exorbitant privilege of bilking the American economy with extortionary transaction rates. They are scared of Bitcoin. And they should be. It offers transparency, cost efficiency and anonymity.” - Max Kaiser
MrTeal
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October 18, 2013, 06:00:30 AM
 #1447


Seeing as HashFast is picking up the tab for the power supply, I'd say X-850 is good decision for the customers. Smiley

LOL... "picking up the tab" for the $300 worth of power supplies is a bit of a stretch when they're installed in the system users paid $5600 for.

We don't want to skimp on any aspect of our hardware, especially an absolutely critical component like the PSU.

Given the problems our competition's customers experienced with PSU compatibility, we are applying that lesson to our own approach.

That's why we've negotiated a special relationship with Sea Sonic, the premier manufacturer of PSUs for the performance enthusiast market, and have chosen to include them with our ASICs to ensure smooth, successful turnkey deployments.

Oh, I don't disagree. I'm just laughing at the idea of saying that Hashfast is picking up the tab on the power supply. It's like Ferrari saying that a new version of the 458 Spider has 20 more HP, and that's great for customers because Ferrari is picking up the tab for the engine.

HashFast likely made a good engineering choice there, but the customers are still the ones picking up the tab for it.
cypherdoc
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October 18, 2013, 06:07:54 AM
 #1448


Seeing as HashFast is picking up the tab for the power supply, I'd say X-850 is good decision for the customers. Smiley

LOL... "picking up the tab" for the $300 worth of power supplies is a bit of a stretch when they're installed in the system users paid $5600 for.

We don't want to skimp on any aspect of our hardware, especially an absolutely critical component like the PSU.

Given the problems our competition's customers experienced with PSU compatibility, we are applying that lesson to our own approach.

That's why we've negotiated a special relationship with Sea Sonic, the premier manufacturer of PSUs for the performance enthusiast market, and have chosen to include them with our ASICs to ensure smooth, successful turnkey deployments.

Oh, I don't disagree. I'm just laughing at the idea of saying that Hashfast is picking up the tab on the power supply. It's like Ferrari saying that a new version of the 458 Spider has 20 more HP, and that's great for customers because Ferrari is picking up the tab for the engine.

HashFast likely made a good engineering choice there, but the customers are still the ones picking up the tab for it.

but it's not an insignificant point to highlight considering KNC wouldn't even include a PSU and then made you pay $7000.  

along with fans, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, etc.
HeRetiK
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October 18, 2013, 09:30:34 AM
 #1449

but it's not an insignificant point to highlight considering KNC wouldn't even include a PSU and then made you pay $7000.  

along with fans, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, etc.

The main reason for KNC not including a PSU was that shipping PSUs across borders can cause unforeseen delays due to regulatory security requirements regarding power supplies.
As a customer you are paying for the PSU either way. Even if it's included in the price it's still the customer's money.

Edit: I'm not saying that HashFast is doing something wrong by including the PSU, just saying that I don't see much of a point in this statement.

cypherdoc
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October 18, 2013, 10:18:24 AM
 #1450

but it's not an insignificant point to highlight considering KNC wouldn't even include a PSU and then made you pay $7000.  

along with fans, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, etc.

The main reason for KNC not including a PSU was that shipping PSUs across borders can cause unforeseen delays due to regulatory security requirements regarding power supplies.
As a customer you are paying for the PSU either way. Even if it's included in the price it's still the customer's money.

Edit: I'm not saying that HashFast is doing something wrong by including the PSU, just saying that I don't see much of a point in this statement.

How convenient. For KNC.

Then they should have been charging much less than they were. That didn't stop Avalon from shipping psu's with my order. Came without a hitch or extra charge.
HashFast_CL
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October 18, 2013, 10:23:14 AM
 #1451

How convenient. For KNC.

Then they should have been charging much less than they were. That didn't stop Avalon from shipping psu's with my order. Came without a hitch or extra charge.

HashFast never promised Sea Sonic PSUs.  We could have used cheaper ones and improved our profit margin.

That's why it's fair to say HashFast "picked up the tab" for premium quality power.

The Golden Nonce is the Rolls-Royce of ASICs, so we are including the Cadillac of PSUs with it.   Smiley

"Bitcoin enables ordinary people to fight back, to avoid and evade snooping governments, which enact, use and abuse laws that allow them, without due process, to investigate, tax, control and seize privately owned assets."  -   Leon Louw

“We can say without equivocation that firms like MasterCard, Visa and the TBTF banks like JPMorgan and Goldman hate the idea of ever having to compete for business again. They have grown comfortable in their corrupt world of writing laws for themselves without any regulatory oversight. They enjoy the exorbitant privilege of bilking the American economy with extortionary transaction rates. They are scared of Bitcoin. And they should be. It offers transparency, cost efficiency and anonymity.” - Max Kaiser
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October 18, 2013, 10:31:59 AM
 #1452

The Golden Nonce is the Rolls-Royce of ASICs, so we are including the Cadillac of PSUs with it.   Smiley

Poor analogy, even though it may be fitting too. No one wants a rolls royce or the price tag it comes with for mining. We want a pickup truck, a van, a digger, some efficient vehicle that costs less than what it may earn over its lifetime. Good luck to anyone investing in cadillacs.
HeRetiK
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the forkings will continue until morale improves


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October 18, 2013, 11:02:37 AM
 #1453

How convenient. For KNC.

Then they should have been charging much less than they were. That didn't stop Avalon from shipping psu's with my order. Came without a hitch or extra charge.

We're not talking about convenience here, we're talking about a fact. It's good to hear that your Avalons arrived with their PSUs without any problems, but customs in other countries can be a bitch in this regard.

Not sure how a cost of USD 100-250,- for a PSU would result in charging "much less". That's not even 5% of the price of a first batch Jupiter. Also, what if you already happen to have a proper PSU at home, say, from a previous mining rig? Congrats, you just paid USD 250,- extra for a PSU you didn't need.

Like I said, nothing wrong with HashFast now adding a proper PSU to their miner, as long as they are aware of regulatory specifications outside of the US (e.g. the CE markings in Europe).

It's just rather meaningless to say a USD 7000,- device is overpriced for not adding a USD 250,- PSU. If you pay USD 7000,- for a device and get a USD 250,- PSU for "free" it just means you could have probably just gotten the device for USD 6750,- without the PSU. That's the thing with "free" and "included" things. You pay for it either way.

starsoccer9
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October 18, 2013, 11:23:46 AM
 #1454

Dont get my wrong im happy about the new power supply and inproved fan airflow and all but I mean the units should be shipping in 2 weeks tops. Dont you think hashfast should of had all the specs and components finalized long before then?

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October 18, 2013, 11:44:22 AM
 #1455

More delays... Oct 20 is coming...

Bitcoinica still has not given me 50% of my claim of 600 BTC
INTERSANGO can go down with bitcoinica for abandoning customers
Alberto Armandi is a SCAMMER
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October 18, 2013, 11:44:40 AM
 #1456

...
but it's not an insignificant point to highlight considering KNC wouldn't even include a PSU and then made you pay $7000.  

along with fans, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, etc.

Lol, aren't you getting a bit catty?  Smoke alarms & fire extinguishers, RLY?  If you're referring to a few boards popping caps, let me explain the science behind how stuff like that happens:

1.  First and foremost, said stuff needs to exist.
   None of Hashfast products have failed because none exist.  
2.  There's no 2, that's it.  

So please hold off on giving each other congratulatory BJs 'till the product ships, k?
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October 18, 2013, 11:56:29 AM
 #1457

How convenient. For KNC.

Then they should have been charging much less than they were. That didn't stop Avalon from shipping psu's with my order. Came without a hitch or extra charge.

HashFast never promised Sea Sonic PSUs.  We could have used cheaper ones and improved our profit margin.

That's why it's fair to say HashFast "picked up the tab" for premium quality power.

The Golden Nonce is the Rolls-Royce of ASICs, so we are including the Cadillac of PSUs with it.   Smiley

But wait!  That's not all!  If you order today, we'll include this set of amazing Ginsu Knives at no extra cost to yooo! Shocked

*Shipping may be delayed until January 1, 2014, see terms & conditions.
cypherdoc
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October 18, 2013, 02:24:48 PM
 #1458

...
but it's not an insignificant point to highlight considering KNC wouldn't even include a PSU and then made you pay $7000.  

along with fans, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, etc.

Lol, aren't you getting a bit catty?  Smoke alarms & fire extinguishers, RLY?  If you're referring to a few boards popping caps, let me explain the science behind how stuff like that happens:

1.  First and foremost, said stuff needs to exist.
   None of Hashfast products have failed because none exist.  
2.  There's no 2, that's it.  

So please hold off on giving each other congratulatory BJs 'till the product ships, k?

again, who's paying you to be anti-Bitcoin?
btc_uzr
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let's have some fun


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October 18, 2013, 03:16:35 PM
 #1459

Honestly, I never perceived something which may indicate crumbs is anit-btc.

Take easy on crumbs, the more exact you answer the questions, the more relaxed others will get.
crumbs was putting the finger in KnC's wounds all time - and I enjoyed it as customer I have to admit.

A pain in manufacturer's asses for sure, but think about it - maybe this character is even useful as it covers concerns of some out there.
The better you deal with ppl of this kind, the more you attract new customers and prove competence at least in customer communication of *hardest* kind.

In your case I'd see it as some kind of challenge, instead of getting annoyed or angry about it, see your advantage in it  Wink

I follow this thread with an open eye, since competition is healthy for the game and I might buy as next from HF, too, and crumbs covers so far some of my concerns/questions wrapped in high level trolling (what I enjoy the most).

Thank you crumbs and keep on Smiley

..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
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October 18, 2013, 03:47:34 PM
 #1460

...
but it's not an insignificant point to highlight considering KNC wouldn't even include a PSU and then made you pay $7000.  

along with fans, smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, etc.

Lol, aren't you getting a bit catty?  Smoke alarms & fire extinguishers, RLY?  If you're referring to a few boards popping caps, let me explain the science behind how stuff like that happens:

1.  First and foremost, said stuff needs to exist.
   None of Hashfast products have failed because none exist.  
2.  There's no 2, that's it.  

So please hold off on giving each other congratulatory BJs 'till the product ships, k?

again, who's paying you to be anti-Bitcoin?

I really shouldn't be telling you this, but you'll probably find out anyway, so here goes.

Obama is picking up the bulk of the tab & is providing me with the spyings of DHS.
The FBI & DEA are supplying me with my steady ration of hookers and blow.

Sadly this is all i can risk disclosing at the moment -- I could tell more, but then i'll have to kill you Cool

Your pal,
  -007.
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