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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875471 times)
Jutarul
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November 20, 2013, 02:03:31 AM
 #2941

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.
correct. Also see [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg3527186#msg3527186].

The MPP was born in an attempt to attract customers at a time the network difficulty grew dramatically. It is a value-added deal which makes this offer very attractive.

With the radio silence from Hashfast there is hardly any way to know what is really going on behind the curtain. All things are possible - from an honest attempt to fix engineering problems and avoiding PR interference to an attempted cover-up of fraudulent advertisement.

Dependent on how Hashfast used customer money to finance production (which has not been stated anywhere and should be considered malpractice), Hashfast customers may be locked into the fate of the company. If it succeeds customers will either be compensated for any shortcomings or may otherwise have grounds for litigation charges. If it fails, customers will have a claim on any left-overs after the company will have to file for bankruptcy. If customer funds were used, it's a misuse of financing, because it lets customers take all the risk while the potential gains (overall profitability of the company) is kept in private hands. Equity financing would have been more appropriate in that case.

Again - without anymore information coming from Hashfast it's hard to paint a precise picture of what is going on. For one it would be interesting to learn how Hashfast stored the customer funds to keep them available for a refund.

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November 20, 2013, 02:33:40 AM
 #2942

I understand it would be very nice to have specific commitments of X MPP miniboards on Y date.

However, this is an unreasonable/impossible expectation for several reasons.

1.  HF can't predict future difficulty and thus can't extrapolate how many MPP miniboards will be required.

2.  HF can't gauge hardware performance nor availability before the product is finished and in production.

3.  Shipping complete miniboards instead of raw chips greatly exacerbates issue #2.

The MPP wafers have been ordered and paid for.  However...

HashFast must complete their supply chain and ship Batch One before evaluating the many variables in the MPP equation.
Ah, but that's not the question. Obviously they can't give a specific date on when they will ship the MPP boards as they don't even know when they'll ship batch 1, although they should know the quantity since every batch 1 customer will receive 400% of their hashrate.
The question is, where will the MPP sit in the delivery queue? Assuming they actually ship batch one BabyJets in mid December, once the end of January comes around will those Batch 1 MPP boards be prioritized? If HashFast is still shipping batch 2 BabyJets and Sierras, will they finish those and ship the B1 MPP boards before batch 3? Will they wait until all the sales between batch 1 and the end of January are shipped before going back to ship the batch 1 BabyJet MPP boards and sending those out?

I don't think it's pessimistic to think that if the last possibility (on January 29th the B1 MPP boards are entered into the system, at the very end of the order queue) is what HashFast has in mind, it could be March before any Batch 1 customers see their extra boards. Depending on their order volume in January it could be even longer, as at $5 per GH/s they might sell a considerable volume after they demonstrate that they are hashing.
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November 20, 2013, 03:14:55 AM
 #2943

Mr teal,

Your convoluted question salad demonstrates exactly why HashFast cannot count MPP chickens before they hatch.

Thanks for helping me explain the many uncertainties precluding firm MPP commitments at this premature time.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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November 20, 2013, 03:32:01 AM
 #2944

Mr teal,

Your convoluted question salad demonstrates exactly why HashFast cannot count MPP chickens before they hatch.

Thanks for helping me explain the many uncertainties precluding firm MPP commitments at this premature time.
It's really not a convoluted question, or at least it doesn't have to be. A simple answer to "Will the Batch 1 BabyJet MPP modules go to the back of the full order queue when January 29th arrives, and if not when will the be shipped relative to the other batches in the order queue?" is all that's needed.
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November 20, 2013, 03:47:39 AM
 #2945

ok Mr teal, here's your "simple answer."

IT DEPENDS.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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November 20, 2013, 04:06:47 AM
 #2946

ok Mr teal, here's your "simple answer."

IT DEPENDS.

I wasn't asking you.
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November 20, 2013, 04:35:29 AM
 #2947

I just want to say that every time I read this thread my faith in humanity is restored.
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November 20, 2013, 04:42:05 AM
 #2948

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.
correct. Also see [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg3527186#msg3527186].

The MPP was born in an attempt to attract customers at a time the network difficulty grew dramatically. It is a value-added deal which makes this offer very attractive.

With the radio silence from Hashfast there is hardly any way to know what is really going on behind the curtain. All things are possible - from an honest attempt to fix engineering problems and avoiding PR interference to an attempted cover-up of fraudulent advertisement.

Dependent on how Hashfast used customer money to finance production (which has not been stated anywhere and should be considered malpractice), Hashfast customers may be locked into the fate of the company. If it succeeds customers will either be compensated for any shortcomings or may otherwise have grounds for litigation charges. If it fails, customers will have a claim on any left-overs after the company will have to file for bankruptcy. If customer funds were used, it's a misuse of financing, because it lets customers take all the risk while the potential gains (overall profitability of the company) is kept in private hands. Equity financing would have been more appropriate in that case.

Again - without anymore information coming from Hashfast it's hard to paint a precise picture of what is going on. For one it would be interesting to learn how Hashfast stored the customer funds to keep them available for a refund.

My deepest fear is that their business model was dependent on them shipping on time and that they were really hoping to not have to pay out any of the MPP, and now that it's obvious they will, there's no possible way for the company to honour the MPP without taking on substantial losses and/or bankrupty.  The hardware for the MPP is still going to cost the company more or less the same now as it does in a couple months, and if they made a gamble on not having to pay for it, everyone will suffer in the end.

I don't want to spread FUD though, I guess we'll have to give HashFast the benefit of the doubt until we hear otherwise.  Like everyone else, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping from an e-mail from them saying they haven't slept for the past two weeks because they've been trying to prevent their company from being insolvent and working hard on getting the consumers their hardware out as fast as they can, while what they're doing is still relevant.

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November 20, 2013, 04:50:21 AM
 #2949

Providing MPP modules to Batch 1 customers at no additional cost and after the sale has been the best thing HF has done so far. I don't understand how you can criticize them about that, much less take them to court. You can pound your chest all you want but this is just not going to happen.

The thing I object to is that MPP was designed to protect against excessive difficulty increases. Not delays.

HF has done nothing to compensate against delays so it is the customers that will pay the price for HF failures.
correct. Also see [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg3527186#msg3527186].

The MPP was born in an attempt to attract customers at a time the network difficulty grew dramatically. It is a value-added deal which makes this offer very attractive.

With the radio silence from Hashfast there is hardly any way to know what is really going on behind the curtain. All things are possible - from an honest attempt to fix engineering problems and avoiding PR interference to an attempted cover-up of fraudulent advertisement.

Dependent on how Hashfast used customer money to finance production (which has not been stated anywhere and should be considered malpractice), Hashfast customers may be locked into the fate of the company. If it succeeds customers will either be compensated for any shortcomings or may otherwise have grounds for litigation charges. If it fails, customers will have a claim on any left-overs after the company will have to file for bankruptcy. If customer funds were used, it's a misuse of financing, because it lets customers take all the risk while the potential gains (overall profitability of the company) is kept in private hands. Equity financing would have been more appropriate in that case.

Again - without anymore information coming from Hashfast it's hard to paint a precise picture of what is going on. For one it would be interesting to learn how Hashfast stored the customer funds to keep them available for a refund.

My deepest fear is that their business model was dependent on them shipping on time and that they were really hoping to not have to pay out any of the MPP, and now that it's obvious they will, there's no possible way for the company to honour the MPP without taking on substantial losses and/or bankrupty.  The hardware for the MPP is still going to cost the company more or less the same now as it does in a couple months, and if they made a gamble on not having to pay for it, everyone will suffer in the end.

I don't want to spread FUD though, I guess we'll have to give HashFast the benefit of the doubt until we hear otherwise.  Like everyone else, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping from an e-mail from them saying they haven't slept for the past two weeks because they've been trying to prevent their company from being insolvent and working hard on getting the consumers their hardware out as fast as they can, while what they're doing is still relevant.

Well, if they held on to any of the bitcoin they were paid with they should be sitting really good for paying for additional hardware.
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November 20, 2013, 04:58:59 AM
 #2950

I think it is WAY to early to make any assumptions about the companies ability to pay for hardware production for the MPP hardware.
I think it is best to just take on a wait and see approach for right now and not jump to any conclusions and start spreading any FUD and starting a angry mob mentality because every one is just speculating at this point.

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November 20, 2013, 05:20:01 AM
 #2951

I think it is WAY to early to make any assumptions about the companies ability to pay for hardware production for the MPP hardware.
I think it is best to just take on a wait and see approach for right now and not jump to any conclusions and start spreading any FUD and starting a angry mob mentality because every one is just speculating at this point.

Yeah.

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November 20, 2013, 05:41:43 AM
 #2952

My deepest fear is that their business model was dependent on them shipping on time and that they were really hoping to not have to pay out any of the MPP, and now that it's obvious they will, there's no possible way for the company to honour the MPP without taking on substantial losses and/or bankrupty.  The hardware for the MPP is still going to cost the company more or less the same now as it does in a couple months, and if they made a gamble on not having to pay for it, everyone will suffer in the end.

That sounds like a good motivation for HashFast to withold hardware and mine.  I'm not saying they will, I'm saying it's something they've got to be factoring into the equation at this point, having already pissed everyone off significantly now.
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November 20, 2013, 06:03:37 AM
 #2953

I understand it would be very nice to have specific commitments of X MPP miniboards on Y date.

However, this is an unreasonable/impossible expectation for several reasons.


#1...because everything they promise is utter bullshit!

How's the printer?

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November 20, 2013, 06:39:29 AM
 #2954

I just want to say that every time I read this thread my faith in humanity is restored.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.
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November 20, 2013, 09:26:52 AM
 #2955

I would have to agree. People suddenly want refunds in BTC as an investment they never made. If you invested in BTC, then that's that. If you paid for something in BTC, then BTC rises, you can't demand a refund for an easy second route. A couple of weeks ago, cedivad let me borrow ~.03 btc when they were at around 100 something dollars. I just needed to get some btc out of my Bitpay. I told him I would pay it back, he said I could keep it. I said okay and thanks. Suddenly when BTC started rising, he told me to pay him back or he was going to make a claim against me here on BTC talk. I didn't have the coins anymore because I used them, because he let me have them.

I think we should all stop focusing on getting refunded in BTC and suddenly being rich over an in direct investment. We all purchased Baby jets. And we need to focus on getting those. If you want a refund, have some morals and be honest.

Let's try to get what we paid for.

WAIT!
People are still thinking there is a slight chance to get their refunds in BTC?

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November 20, 2013, 10:21:08 AM
 #2956

Interesting thought.  Could you point out the MPP clause in the ToS you accepted when purchasing?

What's your point? 

You can go read the MPP yourself if you are confused about it. 

The MPP only guarantees more hashing power (with a cap) it doesn't guarantee an positive ROI.  Guaranteeing a positive ROI would require the MPP to offer unlimited additional hashrate and it clearly indicates it is capped at 400%.  I am not happy about it but a judge (if you want to waste your money and potentially see the inside of the court room in 3-6 months) is going to take a neutral aproach to the reading.  Just because someone "could" be confused isn't the standard of proof.  HashFast could probably have been more "creative" with the language and still win in court.

+10 ho yes !! Wink
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November 20, 2013, 11:50:44 AM
 #2957

I think, the nex ;Dt time we were heard from HF is the 6. December.

I hope, they will made an amazing video like Knc.

Then all hurts and pain are blowing away.

I pray for this.


Dear god of Bitcoins, please let my wishes comes true.

 Grin
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November 20, 2013, 01:55:32 PM
 #2958

  How come website did not need to register when you are new customer?  I am worrying to check my account later for no register at all.
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November 20, 2013, 02:53:18 PM
 #2959

Quote
Yes... I do agree with you. We run mentaso.com and I am in discussions with one of the Hashfast crew about getting some info your way. I have asked a few times and been presented with some stale info, but recently things have changed a bit and they are actually being more vocal with us. There are only so many email reminders I can send before I think a forum post is needed to push along the flow of info.

From what I have been told, they do have a unit running, but I dont believe its with their Hashfast Asic chip. Of course I cannot confirm this as I have yet to see the actual rig.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=340079.0

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November 20, 2013, 04:58:48 PM
 #2960

ok Mr teal, here's your "simple answer."

IT DEPENDS.

I wasn't asking you.

Doesn't matter who you were asking.

The answer is "IT DEPENDS" for reasons which have already been explained.


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██████████████████████
█████████████████
██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
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