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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875472 times)
Coin_Master
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January 15, 2014, 12:32:58 AM
 #7061

HashFast would have to prove that they didn't store the BTC somewhere. They would have to prove that they converted it at an exchange.
You could also subpoena Hashfast records and hire an investigator to comb through HashFasts BTC transactions log to figure out what happened to the BTC.
They have kept some of the Bitcoin they were sent.  I have posted one of the addresses already in this thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4459335#msg4459335
The address 17Vj6tneMEueGgS64aEiNr1fHurEiEHZas still has the Bitcoin that was sent there.
https://blockchain.info/address/17Vj6tneMEueGgS64aEiNr1fHurEiEHZas
It does not require an investigator to determine if some of the Bitcoin payed by customers is still held by HashFast.
Just trace it back from 17Vj6tneMEueGgS64aEiNr1fHurEiEHZas to HashFast's Bitcoin address 17hCi8apMUkzzLLJgUwfXxRJuykuo5Lcur
https://blockchain.info/address/17hCi8apMUkzzLLJgUwfXxRJuykuo5Lcur
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January 15, 2014, 02:57:44 AM
 #7062

Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?


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January 15, 2014, 03:01:38 AM
 #7063

Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?

I don't think he has a choice.

They're really fucking us over.


 
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gmaxwell
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January 15, 2014, 03:09:50 AM
 #7064

Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?
I don't think he has a choice.
They're really fucking us over.
Of course you have a choice.

Anyone who doesn't think you have a choice: please PM me your address, I'll be sending you $1 payments for the purchase of your homes.  (or better, if you happen to know the address of any person who doesn't believe they have a choice, please PM me their address, and I'll split the income I get buying their home for a dollar and flipping it with you).

Bitcoin will not be compromised
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January 15, 2014, 03:12:56 AM
 #7065

HashFast would have to prove that they didn't store the BTC somewhere. They would have to prove that they converted it at an exchange.
You could also subpoena Hashfast records and hire an investigator to comb through HashFasts BTC transactions log to figure out what happened to the BTC.
They have kept some of the Bitcoin they were sent.  I have posted one of the addresses already in this thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg4459335#msg4459335
The address 17Vj6tneMEueGgS64aEiNr1fHurEiEHZas still has the Bitcoin that was sent there.
https://blockchain.info/address/17Vj6tneMEueGgS64aEiNr1fHurEiEHZas
It does not require an investigator to determine if some of the Bitcoin payed by customers is still held by HashFast.
Just trace it back from 17Vj6tneMEueGgS64aEiNr1fHurEiEHZas to HashFast's Bitcoin address 17hCi8apMUkzzLLJgUwfXxRJuykuo5Lcur
https://blockchain.info/address/17hCi8apMUkzzLLJgUwfXxRJuykuo5Lcur

Holy CRAP!

On what basis are they refusing to send customers property (BTC) back to their rightful owners?

Ought to get a judge to legally freeze that huge cache of BTC.

27 MILLION!?

Edit: Nevermind, I am an idiot. I didn't realize they already transferred it out to "unknown" parts of the blockchain.

Edit2: If you look through the transactions you can see some end points still are in [large cache's of] BTC. Whether it remains in hashfasts hands or not is up to an investigator.


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January 15, 2014, 03:20:41 AM
 #7066

There really has to be a chicken cow or horse law still on the books

If i pay you ten chickens

You screw me over

I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens

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January 15, 2014, 03:21:51 AM
 #7067

Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?

I don't think he has a choice.

They're really fucking us over.
Typically a bank draft (Check) of which one is attempting to buy another off, in the case of a settlement, will be a 'Conditional Draft' (should have something on it to the effect of 'For payment of refund in full')
Cashing one of these types of checks will be viewed by the courts as an accepted settlement; a draft is a signed contract.

The flip side is if you did not request a refund, specifically have not provided them with any signed documentation to that effect, paid in bitcoins, and the draft has nothing resembling a Conditional then they just sent you a check...

Personally, I would cash it and demand a refund of my BTC as per contract.  If their accountant goofed and sent you a check in error, then they need to get a refund from you.

Does not your contract state to be reimbursed in BTC?

EDIT:  Is their not a cancellation clause in the sales agreement that permits them to cancel a transaction at any time?  A business has the right to refuse service to anyone at any time.
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January 15, 2014, 03:29:18 AM
 #7068

Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?

I don't think he has a choice.

They're really fucking us over.
Typically a bank draft (Check) of which one is attempting to buy another off, in the case of a settlement, will be a 'Conditional Draft' (should have something on it to the effect of 'For payment of refund in full')
Cashing one of these types of checks will be viewed by the courts as an accepted settlement; a draft is a signed contract.

The flip side is if you did  not request a refund, specifically have not provided them with any signed documentation to that effect and paid in bitcoins, then they just sent you a check...

Personally, I would cash it, then demand a refund of my BTC as per contract.  If their accountant goofed and sent you a check in error, then they need to get a refund from you.

Does not your contract state to be reimbursed in BTC?
That would be fraud. You would have to first check with the letter as to what the intent is behind the check.

Two wrongs don't make a right and certainly don't strengthen anyones case.


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January 15, 2014, 03:32:12 AM
 #7069

There really has to be a chicken cow or horse law still on the books

If i pay you ten chickens

You screw me over

I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens
Based on your example of proper logic....

You paid 50 BTC to HashFast for a device.
HashFast failed to give you the device in a reasonable period. (x3)
HashFast then gave you the equivalent USD value of the Miner rather than the original BTC.

Hence, you can probably guesstimate...that may be why they put the breaks on "raising the price" of their Miners a few days ago. Wink

Shrewd move.


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January 15, 2014, 03:36:58 AM
 #7070

There really has to be a chicken cow or horse law still on the books

If i pay you ten chickens

You screw me over

I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens

did you invest or buy something?   the price was in $$ so this doesn't hold.

BUT, their lying asses assured people they would actually get all their bitcoins back.. that is what you need to focus on.

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
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January 15, 2014, 03:41:41 AM
 #7071

In case anyone is keeping score, I did indeed receive a check for 2 x babyjet + 5% from a fedex envelope shipped priority overnight.

My current theory is that anyone that actually took the time to send a letter requesting a btc refund during the 15 day window is getting a payoff in the hopes that they will lose momentum and just cash the check.

I for one will not be cashing the check and am already in talks with an arbitrator.  I personally will not rest until I either have my btc back, or an impartial 3rd party (arbitrator) says that I am not actually due a full and complete refund (doubtful).

For those that have yet to act:
1) Send your refund demand letter by the 15th certified post... Get that shit time stamped.
2) Contact an arbitrator in the S.F. CA area.

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January 15, 2014, 03:43:51 AM
 #7072

Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?

I don't think he has a choice.

They're really fucking us over.
Typically a bank draft (Check) of which one is attempting to buy another off, in the case of a settlement, will be a 'Conditional Draft' (should have something on it to the effect of 'For payment of refund in full')
Cashing one of these types of checks will be viewed by the courts as an accepted settlement; a draft is a signed contract.

The flip side is if you did  not request a refund, specifically have not provided them with any signed documentation to that effect and paid in bitcoins, then they just sent you a check...

Personally, I would cash it, then demand a refund of my BTC as per contract.  If their accountant goofed and sent you a check in error, then they need to get a refund from you.

Does not your contract state to be reimbursed in BTC?
That would be fraud. You would have to first check with the letter as to what the intent is behind the check.

Two wrongs don't make a right and certainly don't strengthen anyones case.

Please qualify your statement, define where in what I stated you believe is fraud-

And you are correct, two wrongs do not make a right.  A 5% refund in lew of a contract is not right.  As stated if the draft itself is not conditional, specifically stating it is for a refund, then it is the same thing as them handing you cash.  What ever toilet paper came with it in the envelope doesn't matter.  Just don't sign your rights away.

Further I always recommend consultation with a qualified professionally licensed individual.

To Me it sounds like they may have just royally screwed themselves and sent you guys a whole bunch of money to pay your Attorney with to get your BTC back... Wouldn't that be ironic  Shocked
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January 15, 2014, 03:46:24 AM
 #7073

There really has to be a chicken cow or horse law still on the books

If i pay you ten chickens

You screw me over

I am clearly owed the value today of 10 chickens or 10 chickens

did you invest or buy something?   the price was in $$ so this doesn't hold.

BUT, their lying asses assured people they would actually get all their bitcoins back.. that is what you need to focus on.

Who's prices were in USD?

Quote
If BTC value doubles against the dollar, are you still going to give me up to four times my original capacity?

Yes. The entire MPP program is based on BTC, which is a key reason we sell our machines for BTC. The increase in BTC-to-USD exchange rates may mean that you achieve fantastic ROI, even though your Baby Jet doesn’t generate the amount of Bitcoin you paid for it.  We ignore that in our MPP calculations, and will give you additional hashing capacity even though you achieved ROI on a USD basis.

http://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/

"We sell our machines for BTC"

That is not USD.

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January 15, 2014, 03:52:53 AM
 #7074



Who's prices were in USD?


just trying to keep you guys from chasing a red herring.  Go after their lies on the refund not on saying that btc>$$ should come back btc in full.

I never seen them advertise a BTC price on their web or cart.  There were some that dealt with them directly and got some btc price quote in their emails with them, but was that btc listed on an invoice next to the hardware or was it in $$$?


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January 15, 2014, 03:58:14 AM
 #7075



Who's prices were in USD?


just trying to keep you guys from chasing a red herring.  Go after their lies on the refund not on saying that btc>$$ should come back btc in full.

I never seen them advertise a BTC price on their web or cart.  There were some that dealt with them directly and got some btc price quote in their emails with them, but was that btc listed on an invoice next to the hardware or was it in $$$?



See above.  "We sell our machines for BTC" ~ Hashfast.

It's still on the page.  http://hashfast.com/miner-protection-program/



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January 15, 2014, 03:58:39 AM
 #7076

In case anyone is keeping score, I did indeed receive a check for 2 x babyjet + 5% from a fedex envelope shipped priority overnight.

My current theory is that anyone that actually took the time to send a letter requesting a btc refund during the 15 day window is getting a payoff in the hopes that they will lose momentum and just cash the check.


Good theory, but I got both my orders refunded and I didn't send them jack.  I could understand a screw up with one of the orders, bit two separate orders is clearly intentional. Both were btc orders... I think the theory they are trying to reduce their liability on BTC orders is looking pretty likely.  Unfortunately since they mandated btc on day one.... That is going to be a lot of unhappy hero members.

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January 15, 2014, 04:00:52 AM
 #7077

Batch 1, Paid BTC, Canadian, and received an unsolicited USD refund cheque today.
Are you going to cash it?

I don't think he has a choice.

They're really fucking us over.
Typically a bank draft (Check) of which one is attempting to buy another off, in the case of a settlement, will be a 'Conditional Draft' (should have something on it to the effect of 'For payment of refund in full')
Cashing one of these types of checks will be viewed by the courts as an accepted settlement; a draft is a signed contract.

The flip side is if you did  not request a refund, specifically have not provided them with any signed documentation to that effect and paid in bitcoins, then they just sent you a check...

Personally, I would cash it, then demand a refund of my BTC as per contract.  If their accountant goofed and sent you a check in error, then they need to get a refund from you.

Does not your contract state to be reimbursed in BTC?
That would be fraud. You would have to first check with the letter as to what the intent is behind the check.

Two wrongs don't make a right and certainly don't strengthen anyones case.

Please qualify your statement, define where in what I stated you believe is fraud-

And you are correct, two wrongs do not make a right.  A 5% refund in lew of a contract is not right.  As stated if the draft itself is not conditional, specifically stating it is for a refund, then it is the same thing as them handing you cash.  What ever toilet paper came with it in the envelope doesn't matter.  Just don't sign your rights away.

Further I always recommend consultation with a qualified professionally licensed individual.

To Me it sounds like they may have just royally screwed themselves and sent you guys a whole bunch of money to pay your Attorney with to get your BTC back... Wouldn't that be ironic  Shocked
It says it right there in black and white.

This is for a refund you requested.
It does not say "...this is part of your refund. (1 of 10)"

If you cash it, you are signifying you accept their payment + 5%.

============================

Gandalf, if they weren't worried about the legal stuff they wouldn't offer you 5% for free. They are giving you 5% on top of the value of the miner as a settlement.

If they had only given you the cost of the miner and no 5% it would have been clear they were playing hardball. They are instead just seemingly playing "dead possum" and hoping (to the love of God) that their customers are stupid enough to accept their 5% (which is actually almost -90% by the way).

If things go tits up and everyone decided to pursue other options, then HashFast is almost certainly done for. (Unless they can find 10 times their capital)

Batch 2 through 4 can kiss their own asses goodbye as a result.

People are either going to live up to HashFasts [I speculate] expectations, or they will be smarter than that.


============================

Accepting a check with a written notice as to what it is for is not arbitration. You don't get to "invent" what you think the check is for. It is clearly spelled out what it is for. If you stand there in front of the judge stating your own arbitrary ideas and concepts about what the check was for and thought of using their own settlement money to persue a resolved dispute which you accepted....well...don't be surprised if you are laughed out of court.

You're not Dumb or Blonde Gandalf, so stop trying to lure idiots into the fire.


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dhenson
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January 15, 2014, 04:03:12 AM
 #7078

In case anyone is keeping score, I did indeed receive a check for 2 x babyjet + 5% from a fedex envelope shipped priority overnight.

My current theory is that anyone that actually took the time to send a letter requesting a btc refund during the 15 day window is getting a payoff in the hopes that they will lose momentum and just cash the check.


Good theory, but I got both my orders refunded and I didn't send them jack.  I could understand a screw up with one of the orders, bit two separate orders is clearly intentional. Both were btc orders... I think the theory they are trying to reduce their liability on BTC orders is looking pretty likely.  Unfortunately since they mandated btc on day one.... That is going to be a lot of unhappy hero members.

Then it's just the orders where they think they would lose in arbitration.  As an example, I didn't complete my order on the website... it was done throught PM's with the Hashfast account (John) and at no point was USD mentioned.
ninjarobot
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January 15, 2014, 04:17:18 AM
 #7079

I for one will not be cashing the check and am already in talks with an arbitrator.

Can you provide more details on this? I need to look into this as well.

According to the ToS we can only use AAA or JAMS. Have you contacted any of these? I'd also like to know more about associated cost & fees.

Quote
The arbitration shall be administered by the American Arbitration Association (AAA) or JAMS (or a substitute forum if both are unavailable).

Unless otherwise directed by the arbitrator(s), the parties will bear their own costs and expenses that are reasonable and necessary to participate in such arbitration, including attorneys’ fees.

The arbitration will only resolve the dispute. Even if you win, you still need to take steps to enforce it. From Wikipedia:

Quote
Unlike court judgments, arbitration awards themselves are not directly enforceable. A party seeking to enforce an arbitration award must resort to judicial remedies, called an action to "confirm" an award

Also arbitration seems to have a number of downsides:

Quote
Arbitration may be subject to pressures from powerful law firms representing the stronger and wealthier party

In some arbitration agreements, the parties are required to pay for the arbitrators, which adds an additional layer of legal cost that can be prohibitive, especially in small consumer disputes

In some arbitration agreements and systems, the recovery of attorneys' fees is unavailable, making it difficult or impossible for consumers or employees to get legal representation

Never been through an arbitration process before so any advice would be appreciated.
analytics
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January 15, 2014, 04:24:32 AM
 #7080

Anyone have any explanation for the VERY notable hashing rate bump seen on the network around the 6th?  (gmaxwell just posted this above)
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-10k.png

Looking historically, there has never been a rise that dramatic, and it's notable.   It almost certainly has to be ASIC based.  Don't be fooled by the scale, that's a major processing power increase.

I'd look next for what pool that climb came from.


>>What's doubling interesting is the rate of growth after that date is also higher in general, as if machines are being added at a greater rate in general post that first dramatic spike/turn on.
>>Just sayin'.....looks an awful lot like a bunch of powerful asic machines were added at once, and more are being added day by day....just sayin'
>>Any other hardware manufacturers shipping then?  It has to be asic based unless someone quite silly filled a few pods in a data center with non-asic computes that would cost buckets to run...eg doesnt' make sense, has to be asic.
>>It would be interesting to see if it's a single pool contributing that power and the rate increase.


Just a reminder that we saw 1-200Th/s uptick around the 6-9th of January in processing power, with overall rate day to day also going up.   If I were someone who ordered in the later batches as well, this suggests to me they decided to just use the hardware for themselves (if this sudden uptick is from them).    So later batches are likely to get the very same treatment.     I think it's worth checking if this uptick is coming from a single pool and trying to peer into IP's in that pool if the owner allows it.  If someone can point me in the right place to look, I'm happy to compare pools and see where this processing power uptick came from, as well as the increase in day to day growth.





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