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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 875470 times)
perezoso
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April 30, 2014, 02:36:30 AM
 #9081

Technically the MPP didn't promise a particular batch, so no legal handle there.

Yes, but the MPP promised to protect against network hashrate increases, among other things.  The language used with the MPP creates a reasonable expectation of delivery within a useful timeframe.

There's probably room for debate as to what point (day), exactly, on the network hashrate curve "reasonableness" expired.

But assuming that HF only provides 1.6TH as the MPP for each BJ, I know that the "point of reasonableness" passed some time ago.  The MPP was for hashing power, not space heaters.

I suspect a legal handle could be found, although I'm hardly an expert.  Just my gut feeling.
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bkminer
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April 30, 2014, 04:34:06 AM
 #9082

Well I continue to send emails about them telling me my next step, which they said would be soon, over a month ago.... *sigh*

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April 30, 2014, 07:12:07 AM
 #9083

But assuming that HF only provides 1.6TH as the MPP for each BJ, I know that the "point of reasonableness" passed some time ago.  The MPP was for hashing power, not space heaters.

I suspect a legal handle could be found, although I'm hardly an expert.  Just my gut feeling.
This is a letter vs. spirit debate. The question is how much lower instance courts are concerned about intends.

Let me play devils advocate a bit:

Many customers fall short, both on letters and intend. They were fooled into accepting revised and rewritten contracts (e.g. refund&release forms) and by doing so they showed compliance with the practices of the company. Either you're blowing the whistle right away or never. Anything in between puts you into a weak position.

I am not defending what HashFast is doing, I am merely pointing out that you need to play the ball persistently in one direction if you want to have a plausible case. Otherwise HashFast (rightfully) can claim that the customer doesn't really know what they want. That's why those mass actions are highly specific to particular customers - because little nuances in the interaction and communication can put a case into a totally different light.

A totally different beast is the question of fraud (intentionally withholding cash or hardware from customers, i.e. taking deliberate actions which harm the revenue of customers) - but that already goes beyond an attempt to recover contractual substance and is a strategy to break their exploitative business model.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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April 30, 2014, 06:24:30 PM
 #9084

But assuming that HF only provides 1.6TH as the MPP for each BJ, I know that the "point of reasonableness" passed some time ago.  The MPP was for hashing power, not space heaters.

I suspect a legal handle could be found, although I'm hardly an expert.  Just my gut feeling.
This is a letter vs. spirit debate. The question is how much lower instance courts are concerned about intends.

Let me play devils advocate a bit:

Many customers fall short, both on letters and intend. They were fooled into accepting revised and rewritten contracts (e.g. refund&release forms) and by doing so they showed compliance with the practices of the company. Either you're blowing the whistle right away or never. Anything in between puts you into a weak position.

I am not defending what HashFast is doing, I am merely pointing out that you need to play the ball persistently in one direction if you want to have a plausible case. Otherwise HashFast (rightfully) can claim that the customer doesn't really know what they want. That's why those mass actions are highly specific to particular customers - because little nuances in the interaction and communication can put a case into a totally different light.

A totally different beast is the question of fraud (intentionally withholding cash or hardware from customers, i.e. taking deliberate actions which harm the revenue of customers) - but that already goes beyond an attempt to recover contractual substance and is a strategy to break their exploitative business model.


Sure.  I agree that those who sacrificed their claim to the MPP one way or another probably wouldn't be judged by anybody to be owed it.  Speaking for myself, I've never signed any releases or agreed to any postponements.  At one point I asked about a refund for the card, but didn't sign because Hashfast refused to provide a release that did anything but absolve them of "any and all" past, present, and future claims.  I said I would not absolve them of "any and all claims" because even if they refunded the upgrade, they still owed me the MPP.  I said that to them a couple of times, and they refused to reply on point.

I'm thinking at this point that it's whatever legal strategy breaks through first that may determine a lot of this.  Arbitration, the bitcoin recovery suits, or the "forced bankruptcy".  Personally, given my comparatively low level of investment and lack of interest in extended litigation, the only legal strategy that makes sense to far is the "forced bankruptcy" petition.  I kind of like the strategy as a matter of principle too, because if it worked, we would likely all be treated fairly and we would likely learn the truth of what has happened. (Which surely might reveal legal issues including fraud.)

And if Hashfast responds by "paying off" the people in that suit, then if I'm part of it, I will certainly make knowledge of that public, so that others can follow suit and file their own actions.

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April 30, 2014, 08:06:14 PM
 #9085

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269093.msg6479990#msg6479990

Someone wants to do one for HashCrap?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
perezoso
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April 30, 2014, 08:55:27 PM
 #9086

Question:  Can somebody recall, hopefully with documentation, what Hashfast was charging for Babyjets and Sierras for delivery on 31 January?  

(Or, if there was no batch specifically promised for 31 January, the closest date thereafter?)

Edit:  This might be a nice addition to Cedivad's wiki.  A list of the stated delivery dates (on the website and in the TOS) for each batch and its selling price.
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April 30, 2014, 08:59:30 PM
 #9087

For delivery guaranteed for the 31th of Jan? You are talking about batch 2. Hashfast.org for the ToS and web.archive.org for the pricing. You should find it Smiley

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
perezoso
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April 30, 2014, 09:16:19 PM
 #9088

For delivery guaranteed for the 31th of Jan? You are talking about batch 2. Hashfast.org for the ToS and web.archive.org for the pricing. You should find it Smiley

Apparently I'm not very smart.  The earliest capture with pricing data that I can see is for Batch 4.  I'm looking for the lowest price that B2 Sierras and BJs were offered at.  If I continue to fail, I hope somebody here who made one of those orders can help out.

EDIT:  Okay, sorry to bother, I found it in my e-mail, since I was a B1 customer and they were soliciting more orders from me.  The lowest price appears to have been during their "3 Day Sale", announced 22 September. The sale put Sierras at $6000 ($10,800 with MPP), and BJs at $2400 ($4,000 with MPP).
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April 30, 2014, 09:26:49 PM
 #9089

Sierra b2 = $6000

cedivad
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April 30, 2014, 09:39:26 PM
 #9090

This one looks like it:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130914063507/https://hashfast.com/shop/baby-jet-second-batch/

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
cedivad
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May 01, 2014, 12:02:20 AM
 #9091

Ok so it's May, they missed their self-imposed-1-month-ago-April-deadline for batch 2, they didn't (yet) release their chips only offer for batch 2, and most importantly, something that i would like to underline, the power outages at their manufacturing line continues, because they promised to update us as soon as it went up online again.

It must be a hell of a outage.

Do you guys think we can add that to the list of lies? (after that the company is bankrupted, i mean, we could find out where this line is and ask to the electric company if they fixed power outages there at the time. It would be... Disappointing).

If they wanted to apology, they changed idea when they started making up excuses again.

Pathetic as always.

Cheers, and goodnight.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
cedivad
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May 01, 2014, 08:21:19 AM
 #9092

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=591368.new#new

You guys don't fell like being robbed in real time using a board revision as an excuse, right?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
Legend21
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May 01, 2014, 08:54:32 AM
 #9093

They are motherfuckers, already lie, and mislead me, ruin my investment and time.. and now i must wait like a dog for my own money. And they dont update payments querie and not tell in which ordernumber they are on refunds. They are fucking silent as fuck. Dont give specefic details so nobody know it. So they can use their fucking words again.. like this` we request in the order we receive ` and they said this since January. Use this kind of words to delay the whole situation again while the whole situation behind the desk is already fuckup!

Ass holes


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cedivad
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May 01, 2014, 10:52:49 AM
 #9094

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/4448779100.html

Quote
I have waaaaay more chips on hand than I need, and want to get rid of them as quickly as possible. 800 GH/s Golden Nonce bitcoin mining ASIC chips with best-in-class power consumption of 0.65 W/GH/s. Asking $700, price very negotiable particularly for bulk purchases.

Poor guy with too many chips on hand.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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May 01, 2014, 11:43:00 AM
 #9095

Maybe all we HahFast ScamSlow supporter that was standing behind them over the past few months
should organise a trip to HahFast ScamSlow to congratulate them personally for the great experience in supply-chain management.
And say thx for that great upgrade offer.... Another x month delay for free, no extra charge!


kindly remember: bring your own pitchfork   Cheesy


joeventura
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May 01, 2014, 06:11:55 PM
 #9096

Because I was a miner and I know what miners want.  The other companies don't know shit about actual day to day mining and what's the most convenient, since they've never actually done it.



Hell yeah miners want to give you their money then pound sand for 8 months while you mine with our gear.


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May 01, 2014, 06:24:21 PM
 #9097


Because I was a miner and I know what miners want.  The other companies don't know shit about actual day to day mining and what's the most convenient, since they've never actually done it.


lol, what a clown you are

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May 01, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
 #9098

Because I was a miner and I know what miners want.

Don't sell yourself short. You're still a miner since you're mining with customers' equipment on your own pool.

Buy & Hold
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May 01, 2014, 07:30:01 PM
 #9099

Oh look, the newest email nonsense from scamfast:

Quote
An Apology to Our Customers
 
We’ve been late to ship out to customers, and we are sorry for it. Being late is never a good thing, and in this market we know it’s particularly negative.
We understand the uncertainty caused by our silence. We know that our customers are looking for answers, particularly with regards to our shipping timeline. We have been working to resolve our issues with getting product shipped, but have not communicated with our customers.
Below is a brief explanation of what happened and what we are doing about it. Expect to hear more over the coming days.
Regards,
Eduardo deCastro
Founder and CEO, HashFast
Simon Barber
Founder and CTO, HashFast
Why Our Shipments Have Been So Late
We were late because our board design was late. We focused entirely on designing our silicon, which was on time, and works extremely well but, in order to focus on our core competence in ASICs, we left the design and assembly of the board to a contractor.
Though it seemed like the right thing to do at the time, in retrospect, this was a mistake. Not only did the contractor slip their dates repeatedly, but the board design that was finally delivered to us was buggy and did not work reliably.
We have since fixed this, both with improved versions of the original design and an all-new design, which works extremely well (see http://setup.hashfast.com/rpi/). Even so, this created a production bottleneck; and we are still working to get through that.
How We’re Fixing The Bottleneck
We are in the process of converting our large orders from systems to chips. This provides them more hashing power than was originally ordered, and can be delivered quickly. Additionally, it also frees up capacity to serve the rest of our customers much more quickly.
Refunds
We know that there are still people who have requested refunds and have not yet received them. We are processing them as fast as we are able to. Please bear with us.

Apology not accepted.


That sounds an awful lot like Josh Zerlan/BFL,are these guys buddies Huh No more preorders for me,hope you folks get squared away soon  Sad


:-)


 
 
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May 02, 2014, 02:24:26 AM
 #9100

Quote
Power is down on our manufacturing line so we were unable to ship orders today. We’re as bummed as you are. Will post as we have updates.

April 29th Tweet from @HashFast... WTF? can't pay their power bill?
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