HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[btchedge]

I agree that the forum is not the correct venue to discuss the reorganisation... Or liquidation. But I want to try my best anyway, while I don't feel like a little creditor at all, I'm not in the high end circle, so while I would like to help, I'm actually useless.
At least spamming the oblivious here I can make sure that people read it... At least that's the plan.

Maybe it's time for a new "HF Golden Nonce Reorganization" thread. The law stipulates that the court is required NOT to favor certain creditors over others based on the size of the financial claim except for those that are in totally different categories, i.e. secured. Further it is pretty painless to be added to the creditor list and ensure that you are notified of all proceedings.

No individual party (big or small) has the power to force the judge or trustee's hand. Good ideas can be proposed by anyone and then picked up by creditors counsel. My point is that putting forth well thought out ideas is not a waste of time. The totally irrational bitching and moaning is pointless, of course, but this is not such a bad place to float some scenarios to get an idea of what might be agreeable to the many who have yet to weigh in formally or otherwise.

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[itod]

This thread is getting very hard to follow. Can somebody please summarize in one paragraph what's actually happening? Much appreciated.

[joshv06]

This thread is getting very hard to follow. Can somebody please summarize in one paragraph what's actually happening? Much appreciated.

+1

[cedivad]

HF wants to propose their chapter 11 plan, that will be a bad joke if without any kind of huge financing (dumping 40k chips as they are won't really work). Edward is at home, but his dog appeared in this thread (literally, "fredthedog"). Too bad that he decided to leave us in our ignorance. LB has a $6M claim, and together with other creditors will probably propose a reorganisation plan hopefully involving the immediate cashflow needed to save the ship (building boards). Next update on Wednesday morning.

[itod]

HF wants to propose their chapter 11 plan, that will be a bad joke if without any kind of huge financing (dumping 40k chips as they are won't really work). Edward is at home, but his dog appeared in this thread (literally, "fredthedog"). Too bad that he decided to leave us in our ignorance. LB has a $6M claim, and together with other creditors will probably propose a reorganisation plan hopefully involving the immediate cashflow needed to save the ship (building boards). Next update on Wednesday morning.

Tx. Let me see if I've understood it correctly: The HF ship can't stay afloat any more, and the only question is if it would be repaired in-house or by the new owners (former customers)? Is that it?

[Bicknellski]

I agree that the forum is not the correct venue to discuss the reorganisation... Or liquidation. But I want to try my best anyway, while I don't feel like a little creditor at all, I'm not in the high end circle, so while I would like to help, I'm actually useless.
At least spamming the oblivious here I can make sure that people read it... At least that's the plan.

Maybe it's time for a new "HF Golden Nonce Reorganization" thread. The law stipulates that the court is required NOT to favor certain creditors over others based on the size of the financial claim except for those that are in totally different categories, i.e. secured. Further it is pretty painless to be added to the creditor list and ensure that you are notified of all proceedings.

No individual party (big or small) has the power to force the judge or trustee's hand. Good ideas can be proposed by anyone and then picked up by creditors counsel. My point is that putting forth well thought out ideas is not a waste of time. The totally irrational bitching and moaning is pointless, of course, but this is not such a bad place to float some scenarios to get an idea of what might be agreeable to the many who have yet to weigh in formally or otherwise.

Agreed when I made the statement of smaller guys getting screwed it is more of the before the courts as many small investors either refuse to join together in a group or even bother with a small claim so they do not get heard. I think given the push for Chapter 11 even if you have a small stake you should likely contact one of the lawyers that was at the Chap 7 hearing and get involved so you can be heard.

Yes a new thread be great for those who have representation or are seeking it and then you can put ideas forward. But wouldn't it be better to do that in emails?

[Witness]

Wow this is still going. I got my refund awhile back sorry for the late update. Is hashfast still out there?

[Legend21]

So what will this mean? If Hashfast will lost this, what will happend? Or if they win, Someone can give me a quick summary of this?

[SirChiko]

Wow this is still going. I got my refund awhile back sorry for the late update. Is hashfast still out there?

Doesn't seem so...last time they were online was in april.

[pmorici]

So what will this mean? If Hashfast will lost this, what will happend? Or if they win, Someone can give me a quick summary of this?

It sounds like Hashfast is going to go into Bankruptcy no matter what.  At issue is how it happens.  The creditors don't trust the current Hashfast management (rightfully so in my opinion) so the main "win" they will be looking for is a decision that removes the original Hashfast management from control of the company and places it with someone that will look out for the creditor's (ie: customers who are still owed product/money) interests.

The creditors want that to happen ASAP Hashfast doesn't want that to happen and they will probably submit a bankruptcy plan that involves Simon still being part of the company.  The judge seems inclined to deny the creditor's request for immediately removing the HF management based on a procedural issue in the law but the creditor's would be able to ask again in a couple weeks once HF submitted their official chapter 11 bankruptcy plan.

Also being discussed is the best way to recover the most money for the creditors and what a fair market value is for the golden nonce chip which HF claims is their only significant remaining asset.  They caught Simon at the Bitcoin conference in Amsterdam a couple weeks ago apparently trying to make a deal to sell the remaining inventory of chips for below market prices to a mining operation outside US jurisdiction in exchange for a stake of the mined Bitcoins which he seemed to think he could then hide from US law.

Really a lot of things are up in the air at this point so no one knows what will happen.  To use baseball by analogy this is like the first half of the first inning

[ninjarobot]

Further it is pretty painless to be added to the creditor list and ensure that you are notified of all proceedings.

Is there a creditor list already? If so, how can I file my claim?

I have an August 8 BJ pre-order. Have received the main unit but not MPP. Since MPP was added on later it is not part of my original sales contract. I wonder if MPP claims will be recognized?

[aasl]

Further it is pretty painless to be added to the creditor list and ensure that you are notified of all proceedings.

Is there a creditor list already? If so, how can I file my claim?

I have an August 8 BJ pre-order. Have received the main unit but not MPP. Since MPP was added on later it is not part of my original sales contract. I wonder if MPP claims will be recognized?

I am also curious about how to claim my loss.

[cedivad]

I am also curious about how to claim my loss.

I don't see any need to do that immediately... Let's see what happens before bothering with the paperwork. (they might still be able to ship batch 3/4/MPP). There will be a deadline (like 6 months?) to submit claims, and it will be heavily advertised here.

[perezoso]

Further it is pretty painless to be added to the creditor list and ensure that you are notified of all proceedings.

Is there a creditor list already? If so, how can I file my claim?

I have an August 8 BJ pre-order. Have received the main unit but not MPP. Since MPP was added on later it is not part of my original sales contract. I wonder if MPP claims will be recognized?

I am also curious about how to claim my loss.

dhenson and others who have retained a lawyer will come on here and try to convince you to sign up with that group, at a cost of 40% of anything that is recovered (paid to the lawyer).  I'm not going to discourage you from doing that, but I'm not doing that myself.

Entropy_UC will come and (correctly, in my view) observe that you can just ride the bankruptcy out.  Once the company is under supervision of the court, creditors big and small will be addressed (although some will be more vocal and pushy than others, and priority will have to be worked out, if any priority exists).

But if Hashfast goes into liquidation, for example, there will be process by which you can present your claim.  Stay tuned.

Hashfast's main asset right now are 40,000 chips (previously reported as 30,000... now they say 40,000) that they have in hand.  All the rest of the money and bitcoins went poof into a cloud of dust and disappeared. Hashfast doesn't have the money to make these chips into boards, in fact it hasn't had any money for months, which is why they haven't been shipping our orders, and is why they announced that they wanted to be the "intel of bitcoin mining" - to sell the chips, since they have no resources to make boxes.

I think that what everyone is hoping - but balancing the interests correctly is a problem - is that the creditors can take control of the company and find the money to put the chips on boards.  Now, all the related questions like, "So, then, do I get boards?"  Or "So, then, do they sell the boards and we get cash for our share of the debt, basically as shareholders in Hashfast 2.0?"  All this sort of business, it's all up in the air.

But as many point out, the value of the chips goes down every day.  So every day that Simon tries to hold on as CEO and the creditors can't reach a deal among themselves, the value we will recover probably goes down.  

I think that on Wednesday we will get information that might make the future a little clearer.

[dropt]

I have an August 8 BJ pre-order. Have received the main unit but not MPP. Since MPP was added on later it is not part of my original sales contract. I wonder if MPP claims will be recognized?

To my knowledge the MPP was not part of anyone's sales contract.  It was an oral obligation made by HF and backed up by the content of their website.  When I was looking to purchase units in September 2013 I raised my concerns that the sales contract did not include the MPP.  Further, I talked with Eduardo on the phone and he blew off my concerns.

If you go back through the thread you'll see that I pointed this out on a number of occasions.

[perezoso]

I have an August 8 BJ pre-order. Have received the main unit but not MPP. Since MPP was added on later it is not part of my original sales contract. I wonder if MPP claims will be recognized?

To my knowledge the MPP was not part of anyone's sales contract.  It was an oral obligation made by HF and backed up by the content of their website.  When I was looking to purchase units in September 2013 I raised my concerns that the sales contract did not include the MPP.  Further, I talked with Eduardo on the phone and he blew off my concerns.

If you go back through the thread you'll see that I pointed this out on a number of occasions.

I have no more say in the matter than anyone else, I'm just a small creditor, but in my view the MPP claims absolutely must be pursued.  They were not an oral pledge (which in any event can be an enforceable contract), they were very explicitly spelled out on the website, including a Q&A, and the MPP was expressly placed under the TOS.  MPP claims are absolutely legitimate. I bought after the MPP was announced, and I bought because the MPP was announced.  It was what put me over the edge.

It does get a little confusing deciding where, in the order of things and in our present situation, the MPP claims stand in terms of their priority.  But maybe the way things are worked out will make that question irrelevant.

[pmorici]

MPP claims are absolutely legitimate. I bought after the MPP was announced, and I bought because the MPP was announced.  It was what put me over the edge.

As an aside I think it's become increasingly apparent that the MPP was a total farce concocted by Hashfast as a tool used to counteract negative events that were about to happen.

08/13/13 - Hashfast announces the MPP
2 days later people report they begin getting terms of sale with the "delivery by Dec. 31st" being secretly added.

10/13/13 - Hashfast announces MPP will be full boards not just chips
4 days later Hashfast announces a '1 week' delay which they probably had known for some time would be longer than one week.

11/7/13 - via email Hashfast says "For First Batch Baby Jets, the start date of the program will be retroactive to October 30th."
in same email, hashfast announces 2nd delay until at least mid-December

[cedivad]

Will the creditor's lawyers be able to show something concrete to screw HF during the next hearing? That would do something. Like a 3 minute summary of HF's history of mismanagement and fraud (in perfect "9/11: A Conspiracy Theory" corbett report style). I'm listening to the hearing a second time, and I really don't like how the lies of their lawyer seems like to be effective at convincing the judge that HF is acting in good faith... Destroy them, please.

[bkminer]

So every day that Simon tries to hold on as CEO and the creditors can't reach a deal among themselves,

Simon Barber is not and never was the CEO, he is the CTO...... I'm not sure why this mistake keeps coming up...

[Legend21]

Thank you pmorici for your summary of this case.

So what will this mean? If Hashfast will lost this, what will happend? Or if they win, Someone can give me a quick summary of this?

It sounds like Hashfast is going to go into Bankruptcy no matter what.  At issue is how it happens.  The creditors don't trust the current Hashfast management (rightfully so in my opinion) so the main "win" they will be looking for is a decision that removes the original Hashfast management from control of the company and places it with someone that will look out for the creditor's (ie: customers who are still owed product/money) interests.

The creditors want that to happen ASAP Hashfast doesn't want that to happen and they will probably submit a bankruptcy plan that involves Simon still being part of the company.  The judge seems inclined to deny the creditor's request for immediately removing the HF management based on a procedural issue in the law but the creditor's would be able to ask again in a couple weeks once HF submitted their official chapter 11 bankruptcy plan.

Also being discussed is the best way to recover the most money for the creditors and what a fair market value is for the golden nonce chip which HF claims is their only significant remaining asset.  They caught Simon at the Bitcoin conference in Amsterdam a couple weeks ago apparently trying to make a deal to sell the remaining inventory of chips for below market prices to a mining operation outside US jurisdiction in exchange for a stake of the mined Bitcoins which he seemed to think he could then hide from US law.

Really a lot of things are up in the air at this point so no one knows what will happen.  To use baseball by analogy this is like the first half of the first inning