HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[RoadStress]

RS would never ask an actual lawyer to confirm his silly opinion, because his delicate ego would be grievously wounded when the lawyer inevitably informed him that he's FOS.  

Actually it's HF who ignored the possibility of a BTC price spike when Anna (I think it's the correct name) promised full BTC refund.

If a customer actually believed HF was really ignoring the possibility of a BTC price spike, why would they be so foolish as to do business with HF regardless?  

Sheer cupidity is the only plausible explanation; some people thought that by playing dumb/innocent they might reap a windfall at HF's expense.

The hypothetical "full BTC refund" scenario obviously assumes the USD price of BTC is equal at the times of purchase and refund.

Common sense and common law dictate actual refunds take fluctuations into account.

Sorry if this is all too complicated for your little pea brain, for which logic is a very hard thing.  

Why don't you simply call a lawyer and have the assurance of their legal authority settle this contentious issue for you?

Is the hesitation due to your desire to avoid the cognitive dissonance of having to admit I was correct?

Yes we know that the customers were stupid that they believed what a HashFast representative told them

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Hi Jim,
Thank you so much for your patience while I got the answer for you, I greatly appreciate it.

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

I hope that helps and hope you have a good weekend!

Thanks,
Cara

That email doesn't say you'd get all the BTC you spent back regardless of how high the price of BTC goes.

Yes that's correct and since it doesn't say anything about the BTC price then it means that the price doesn't matter.

Even if HF did say "no matter what" how could you reasonably believe a tiny start-up could possible make good on such an unlimited liability?

A tiny company doesn't have more than 20 mil $ in hand and nobody forced them to make that statement!

[1714035826]

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[1714035826]

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[Syke]

That email doesn't say you'd get all the BTC you spent back regardless of how high the price of BTC goes.

Even if HF did say "no matter what" how could you reasonably believe a tiny start-up could possible make good on such an unlimited liability?

Everyone knew bitcoins could skyrocket or crash. It's what bitcoins have always done. So they should have saved some bitcoins around, then there would be no additional liability. Since they never planned for BTC refunds, their offer was a empty promise meant to deceive customers into buying.

[smoothie]

and here we are....empty promises broken and those breaking those same promises getting away with it. 

[iCEBREAKER]

Everyone knew bitcoins could skyrocket or crash. It's what bitcoins have always done. So they should have saved some bitcoins around, then there would be no additional liability. Since they never planned for BTC refunds, their offer was a empty promise meant to deceive customers into buying.

You are wrong about so much.  Nobody can predict the price of BTC.

HF had did save some coins but had to sell them to pay for refunds and other expenses.

The only "empty promise" was the illusion you created for yourself, in which you risk nothing and HF magically conjures unlimited numbers of BTC to compensate for an unprecedented price spike.

HF was willing to provide refunds in BTC, but that was disallowed by the legal scrutiny brought on by windfall-seeking fuckwits such as yourself and encouraged by buffoons like RoadStress.

This is what the HF rep said:

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

This what you greedy retards chose to hear:

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid (no matter what, even if BTC goes to $1 MILLION DOLLARS PER COIN).

Can you spot the difference?   

[notbatman]

You make it sound like the customers money belonged to HF before they shipped the product. I disagree.

[vokain]

You make it sound like the customers money belonged to HF before they shipped the product. I disagree.

Exactly. The customers are not investors, the customers are paying for a product the company is selling to be delivered by a specific date (to which they added a clause to change from "October 20-30" to if not "by December 31" after I placed my personal order), and when the company further reneged on their side of the contract by not delivering and/or refunding per their contractual terms and the customers get nothing back, the customers unequivocally got SCREWED by the company.

I have no sympathy for HashFast.

[Syke]

This is what the HF rep said:

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

This what you greedy retards chose to hear:

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid (no matter what, even if BTC goes to $1 MILLION DOLLARS PER COIN).

Can you spot the difference?   

Yeah. The first is the truth. The second is your fiction. It's worth than fiction. It's a lie, because you're also claiming that if bitcoin went to $1, HF would have refunded 5100 bitcoins. We all know that never would have happened. They would have trotted out that email and only sent 51.

[iCEBREAKER]

You make it sound like the customers money belonged to HF before they shipped the product. I disagree.

You make it sound like HF wasn't clear their advanced 28nm ASIC was not an off-the-shelf mass produced commodity device like a Hello Kitty toaster from Amazon, and only available in the future via pre-orders.

Customers' money was clearly being spent to fund the development and manufacture of their machines; it belongs to those who provided components and labor.

Do you really think our BTC were being held in some secret escrow account, perhaps guarded by enchanted fairies, and that HF was footing the entire bill to charitably provide us with ASICs entirely at their own expense?

Why would HF bother to use BitPay and give them a % if our BTC were going into escrow?

In no plausible scenario is your desired windfall a reasonable expectation or demand.

OTOH, if BTC went to $1 and HF tried to pay out $51 refunds, they would have gone to jail or at least gotten in trouble.

The only legal course of action was for HF refund the purchase price (which as always denominated in USD) in fiat.

It would be no different if you wanted a refund for an exact number of Euros or Yen. 

HF is simply not liable for fluctuations in media of exchange provided as a convenience.  That's not how it works.  Ask any lawyer.

This has already been explained several times; you and Skye are unbelievably slow learners.   

[raskul]

i very rarely do this, but it's necessary on this occasion.

[iCEBREAKER]

i very rarely do this, but it's necessary on this occasion.

Wow, you have certainly convinced me I am wrong by using such powerful evidence and solid logic.

Next topic:

These books and music are the gheyest things that have ever existed in the entire history of hilarity:

From the Seven Seals of Emotion and Sensation to the one true Law of Human Faith, Rus brings his esoteric art to you in the form of the written word. 71 pages of poetry.

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/rgsneddon

And if that's not lulzy enough, this out:

666 Stitches is a fable detailing what happens to the soul when the life takes illegal drugs. And about sacrilege, admonishment and justice. Justice for the rape of the Sensation of Ecstasy in the Emotion of Love by those who dance in ritual intoxicated by that drug. Ecstasy "Faith is nothing without works and the works of faith must and shall hold a true form for sacrilege, just only when endeared unto oneself by the hand which is ones own..."

http://www.lulu.com/shop/russell-gray-sneddon/666-stitches/paperback/product-2605964.html

These will make great gag gifts for the holidays, good thing he takes Bitcoin.  

[RoadStress]

Everyone knew bitcoins could skyrocket or crash. It's what bitcoins have always done. So they should have saved some bitcoins around, then there would be no additional liability. Since they never planned for BTC refunds, their offer was a empty promise meant to deceive customers into buying.

You are wrong about so much.  Nobody can predict the price of BTC.

HF had did save some coins but had to sell them to pay for refunds and other expenses.

The only "empty promise" was the illusion you created for yourself, in which you risk nothing and HF magically conjures unlimited numbers of BTC to compensate for an unprecedented price spike.

HF was willing to provide refunds in BTC, but that was disallowed by the legal scrutiny brought on by windfall-seeking fuckwits such as yourself and encouraged by buffoons like RoadStress.

This is what the HF rep said:

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid.

This what you greedy retards chose to hear:

The answer is if you buy Baby Jet for 51 BitCoins today and it does not ship, you will be refunded the 51 BitCoins you paid (no matter what, even if BTC goes to $1 MILLION DOLLARS PER COIN).

Can you spot the difference?   

So let me get this straight. If 1M$ per bitcoin is too much, if 500$ per bitcoin is too much who sets the limit? How should customers interpret the statement from the HF rep? If bitcoin was 200$ would they get 51 bitcoins as refund? What about at 150$ per bitcoin?

Also by your statement HF never intended to fully refund everyone from Batch 1 after their missed deadline. They had some money for some of the customers, but not for all. So they broke their own ToS by not having money for everyone from Batch 1. Am I reading this correct? HF took money for 4(?) batches and never had any plan/back-up plan to fully refund everyone from Batch 1.

[vokain]

Also by your statement HF never intended to fully refund everyone from Batch 1 after their missed deadline. They had some money for some of the customers, but not for all. So they broke their own ToS by not having money for everyone from Batch 1. Am I reading this correct? HF took money for 4(?) batches and never had any plan/back-up plan to fully refund everyone from Batch 1.

My refund checks were BOUNCED at Chase

[iCEBREAKER]

So let me get this straight. If 1M$ per bitcoin is too much, if 500$ per bitcoin is too much who sets the limit? How should customers interpret the statement from the HF rep? If bitcoin was 200$ would they get 51 bitcoins as refund? What about at 150$ per bitcoin?

Also by your statement HF never intended to fully refund everyone from Batch 1 after their missed deadline. They had some money for some of the customers, but not for all. So they broke their own ToS by not having money for everyone from Batch 1. Am I reading this correct? HF took money for 4(?) batches and never had any plan/back-up plan to fully refund everyone from Batch 1.

The only legal course of action was for HF refund the purchase price (which as always denominated in USD) in fiat.

It would be no different if you wanted a refund for an exact number of Euros or Yen.

HF is simply not liable for fluctuations in media of exchange provided as a convenience.  That's not how it works.  Ask any lawyer.

This has already been explained several times; you and Skye are unbelievably slow learners.

[SolarSilver]

HF never told anyone they could do something impossible like ignore BTC price fluctuations 'no matter what.'

Even if they did, only an unreasonable greedy idiot would expect a small start-up to perform financial miracles.

In an industry flooded with charlatans like Hashfast, there are at least 2 examples of companies who did honour full refunds: Avalon and ASICMiner.

Their customers are also unreasonable greedy idiots?

A customer's failure to understand the TOS and perform adequate due diligence does not constitute "fraud" on HF's part.

The HF trial is over, and no evidence of fraud was produced.  The judge even specifically asked the US ATTY for it, but she could not provide anything substantial.

You haters had your day (months, actually) in court and came up with nothing. 

Yes, this will have to be settled out of court. It's called karma, and I'm sure you are getting a nice chunk coming your way for the role you play in the entire drama.

[SolarSilver]

That email doesn't say you'd get all the BTC you spent back regardless of how high the price of BTC goes.

Even if HF did say "no matter what" how could you reasonably believe a tiny start-up could possible make good on such an unlimited liability?

How many other impossible things do you believe, when it is in your financial interest to (pretend to) do so? 

The sec/fbi had all the time in the world to get involved.  They've already heard your tale of woe, and found it lacking.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=if+it+sounds+too+good+to+be+true

You lied to yourself.  Because greed.

Sorry ICEBREAKER, I take on many contracts with other companies that promise me things that are too good to be true, like insurance companies and bank guarantees. The way it works in the real world, is that these companies hedge themselves. They have to. Even lotteries have insurance against certain statistical odds.

If my house burns down or my car gets stolen, I do get a refund. We had a freak storm (this is the no matter what part) here last spring and hail damaged a lot of properties, we all got our glass surfaces replaced, in my case it covered all of our solar panels. There are a few cases that excludes their coverage like nuclear disasters and terrorism, but it's clearly described in their contract. There is no discussion about it.

Is that greed? I pay them 5 cents on the dollar for the insured value and they do pay. And they don't even go bankrupt. Why? Because they have a sound business plan that involves hedging and re-insurance.

For all the goods I order in USD and sell in EUR, I hedge all my contracts against currency fluctuations. And with the drop in the EURUSD value over the last months, I'm not affected. I'm not going bankrupt.

It's obvious Hashfast made promises they could not keep because they never hedged. They did not keep a sizeable buffer of refund money in BTC. They did not get a reinsurance contract with a company like Swiss Re.

That shows either malicious intent or incompetence.

[jjiimm_64]

i very rarely do this, but it's necessary on this occasion.

yah.. me to... I only have about 3 or 4 ignores .... ice is now one of them.. what a dickhead.

[MrTeal]

While in general I tend to agree with the concept that the units were denominated in USD and refunds would have been that amount, in jjiimm_64's case he was explicitly promised his BTC51 back, with no exclusions. If Hashfast was worried about unlimited liability on the BTC51 in the event that Bitcoin went to $1M, the simple solution would be to just not convert that BTC to USD. Yes that opens up the possibility that BTC would go to 0 and their payment is now worthless, but that's the choice they make when they offered him a full BTC51 refund.

[jjiimm_64]

While in general I tend to agree with the concept that the units were denominated in USD and refunds would have been that amount, in jjiimm_64's case he was explicitly promised his BTC51 back, with no exclusions. If Hashfast was worried about unlimited liability on the BTC51 in the event that Bitcoin went to $1M, the simple solution would be to just not convert that BTC to USD. Yes that opens up the possibility that BTC would go to 0 and their payment is now worthless, but that's the choice they make when they offered him a full BTC51 refund.

EXACTLY.  I had 250 coins that were offline, to be saved... when HF convinced me that my coins where safe if I did not get the hardware.

edit:  i ended up ordering 4 BJ at about 211btc.

[Syke]

The only legal course of action was for HF refund the purchase price (which as always denominated in USD) in fiat.

Now you're calling Cara a liar. We're making progress!

[RoadStress]

So let me get this straight. If 1M$ per bitcoin is too much, if 500$ per bitcoin is too much who sets the limit? How should customers interpret the statement from the HF rep? If bitcoin was 200$ would they get 51 bitcoins as refund? What about at 150$ per bitcoin?

Also by your statement HF never intended to fully refund everyone from Batch 1 after their missed deadline. They had some money for some of the customers, but not for all. So they broke their own ToS by not having money for everyone from Batch 1. Am I reading this correct? HF took money for 4(?) batches and never had any plan/back-up plan to fully refund everyone from Batch 1.

The only legal course of action was for HF refund the purchase price (which as always denominated in USD) in fiat.

It would be no different if you wanted a refund for an exact number of Euros or Yen.

HF is simply not liable for fluctuations in media of exchange provided as a convenience.  That's not how it works.  Ask any lawyer.

This has already been explained several times; you and Skye are unbelievably slow learners.

Fiat or no fiat HF never had money to refund everyone in Batch 1. They have lied in their ToS plain and simple. Thank you for clarifying that!