convince me about it all

[kakoluckiam]

Hey guys, first of all I'll probably make some mistakes writing that, please forgive me

So, I am in crypto's world since 3 years now. And I still have some dubts. Probably, this is because while my knowledge about this increases, so do my criticism.
Let's go to the questions.
1)Bitcoin, and all the cryptocurrencies, were made to replace the fiat money. One of it's most important features, is that it doesn't require to trust someone to make a transaction, because it will be certainly confirmed via blockchain; all right. So, there is still a problem there. To buy/sell large quantities of cryptocurrency, we're using escrows. To make a succesfull ICO, we do aswell. While on the fiat money you've a third part (the central bank) which guarantees for the value, in crypto you need an escrow: you still need to trust someone, or someone to guarantee. Let's say in the future I want to trade ETH for BTC, the transaction can't be canceled, but.. who sends it first and takes the risk, without a third part supervising the transation?
2)Let's say I'm one of those who boutgh 100btc in 2014, and that I've got some milions now, and i want to exchange them for fiat currency. How do I do it? A bank, allows me to send even bilions with a transaction. I can buy a bilion dollars paying by euros; how do I buy a bilion of dollars paying with bitcoin? Yes, you can withdraw from exchanges, buy.. 500k/month or so? I can sell them in private.. whatever is the solution, nowadays is way MORE complicated than using fiat currency.
3)Governments and big banks. There we go. They r already working on that, everyone who's a bit informed, knows it. What if they just declare crypto illegal around the world? "it's decentralized! u fool! u can't stop the progress!" yeye, ok.. but even if you won't accept such a decision, you will still need someone who will recognize the value of your currency.. you really think that most ppl in the world won't follow what the government says? We all know that the majority, won't follow the revolution.
Another scenario is that banks start creating their own currencies based on the blockchain technology. You really think that people are going to prefer some of the existing currencies over the one that their banks says is the good one? They simply won't.

So, I'd like to receive some answers to these points; I want to make this a good discussion, without flame, and without "WTF I LOVE BTC U DUMB" stuffs. Let me know your pow ppl!

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[kakoluckiam]

No1?

[Hydrogen]

1)Bitcoin, and all the cryptocurrencies, were made to replace the fiat money. One of it's most important features, is that it doesn't require to trust someone to make a transaction, because it will be certainly confirmed via blockchain; all right. So, there is still a problem there. To buy/sell large quantities of cryptocurrency, we're using escrows. To make a succesfull ICO, we do aswell. While on the fiat money you've a third part (the central bank) which guarantees for the value, in crypto you need an escrow: you still need to trust someone, or someone to guarantee. Let's say in the future I want to trade ETH for BTC, the transaction can't be canceled, but.. who sends it first and takes the risk, without a third part supervising the transation?

I'll contend: Bitcoin and crypto currencies were not intended to replace fiat. They were created to fix flaws and weaknesses in fiat which were revealed during the worldwide 2008 economic crisis and its aftermath.

Bitcoin's goal also was never to produce a 100% trustless system. It was moreso to create a system that relied less on trust than systems currently in use in an effort to boost stability, reliability, etc.

2)Let's say I'm one of those who boutgh 100btc in 2014, and that I've got some milions now, and i want to exchange them for fiat currency. How do I do it? A bank, allows me to send even bilions with a transaction. I can buy a bilion dollars paying by euros; how do I buy a bilion of dollars paying with bitcoin? Yes, you can withdraw from exchanges, buy.. 500k/month or so? I can sell them in private.. whatever is the solution, nowadays is way MORE complicated than using fiat currency.

The harsh truth is: bank accounts are only insured up to $100k and many banks worldwide are reducing the lump sum to which they insure individual accounts. Someone with a million or a billion dollars, probably doesn't have their money in a bank account that is only insured up to $100k anyway. Bitcoin isn't more complicated to handle in large sums than fiat is.

Also fiat in electronic transactions carries things like sales taxes and VAT which can be much higher than bitcoin transfer fees which make them less efficient and more expensive to use.

[CyberKuro]

1)Bitcoin, and all the cryptocurrencies, were made to replace the fiat money.

No, bitcoin meant to be an alternative payment method, and it doesn't have the ability to replace fiat money anytime soon.

2)Let's say I'm one of those who boutgh 100btc in 2014, and that I've got some milions now, and i want to exchange them for fiat currency. How do I do it?

There is no shortcut to convert bitcoin into fiat money, you have to exchange it through exchanges and withdraw it to your bank's account.
However, it never be easy to transfer Millions of dollars at once through bank system, as they will investigate your money obviously.
We know all of this hassle, so just put your wealth in bitcoin, or withdraw as much as you need, not all at once.

3)Governments and big banks. There we go. They r already working on that, everyone who's a bit informed, knows it. What if they just declare crypto illegal around the world?

Yes, this is the biggest obstacle right now, if some big countries ban bitcoin or exchanges, then bitcoin will crash again such as when China did it.
Fortunately, most of the big countries such as Japan, USA, Russia, South Korea and Europe acknowledge bitcoin and not ban it, instead of assign taxes for capital gains from cryptocurrency.

[andrei56]

Hey guys, first of all I'll probably make some mistakes writing that, please forgive me

So, I am in crypto's world since 3 years now. And I still have some dubts. Probably, this is because while my knowledge about this increases, so do my criticism.
Let's go to the questions.
1)Bitcoin, and all the cryptocurrencies, were made to replace the fiat money. One of it's most important features, is that it doesn't require to trust someone to make a transaction, because it will be certainly confirmed via blockchain; all right. So, there is still a problem there. To buy/sell large quantities of cryptocurrency, we're using escrows. To make a succesfull ICO, we do aswell. While on the fiat money you've a third part (the central bank) which guarantees for the value, in crypto you need an escrow: you still need to trust someone, or someone to guarantee. Let's say in the future I want to trade ETH for BTC, the transaction can't be canceled, but.. who sends it first and takes the risk, without a third part supervising the transation?
2)Let's say I'm one of those who boutgh 100btc in 2014, and that I've got some milions now, and i want to exchange them for fiat currency. How do I do it? A bank, allows me to send even bilions with a transaction. I can buy a bilion dollars paying by euros; how do I buy a bilion of dollars paying with bitcoin? Yes, you can withdraw from exchanges, buy.. 500k/month or so? I can sell them in private.. whatever is the solution, nowadays is way MORE complicated than using fiat currency.
3)Governments and big banks. There we go. They r already working on that, everyone who's a bit informed, knows it. What if they just declare crypto illegal around the world? "it's decentralized! u fool! u can't stop the progress!" yeye, ok.. but even if you won't accept such a decision, you will still need someone who will recognize the value of your currency.. you really think that most ppl in the world won't follow what the government says? We all know that the majority, won't follow the revolution.
Another scenario is that banks start creating their own currencies based on the blockchain technology. You really think that people are going to prefer some of the existing currencies over the one that their banks says is the good one? They simply won't.

So, I'd like to receive some answers to these points; I want to make this a good discussion, without flame, and without "WTF I LOVE BTC U DUMB" stuffs. Let me know your pow ppl!

For your second point on how to cash out you will have no other way to proceed but to use exchanges and about your third point you are right in order for a currency to work you need someone else to accept it and if it is banned then most people will not accept it but some will and that is what will allow bitcoin to thrive.

[farhaan]

Bitcoin was not created to replace fiat.But it was created to provide a platform where P2P transactions could be made without the help of banks.I hope when we pay any amount online using fiat cash digitally t buy bany products or service,i don't think that any bank serves as escrow for that amount.Just it facilitates the transaction of the amount and receives some fee for that.I accept that we hve a record of transactions as paid and we could use it to prove if fraudulent activities found.But bitcoin being a decentralized currency,there is no such central body to ensure that amount as been paid and it could not be proved in any jurisdiction.For this reason only,we use escrow  and if you don;'t need an escrow,its up to you.

Coming to your second point.Its true that there is no infra structure for converting such a huge amount of bitcoins in to fiat currencies immediately.But i think that the number of people who would like to convert such huge amounts would be probably low.

Whatever governments and banks try to make their own currencies,it would not be decentralized and people would not be ready to buy such currencies and come under the radar of government authorities.

[J Gambler]

Hey guys, first of all I'll probably make some mistakes writing that, please forgive me

So, I am in crypto's world since 3 years now. And I still have some dubts. Probably, this is because while my knowledge about this increases, so do my criticism.
Let's go to the questions.
1)Bitcoin, and all the cryptocurrencies, were made to replace the fiat money. One of it's most important features, is that it doesn't require to trust someone to make a transaction, because it will be certainly confirmed via blockchain; all right. So, there is still a problem there. To buy/sell large quantities of cryptocurrency, we're using escrows. To make a succesfull ICO, we do aswell. While on the fiat money you've a third part (the central bank) which guarantees for the value, in crypto you need an escrow: you still need to trust someone, or someone to guarantee. Let's say in the future I want to trade ETH for BTC, the transaction can't be canceled, but.. who sends it first and takes the risk, without a third part supervising the transation?
2)Let's say I'm one of those who boutgh 100btc in 2014, and that I've got some milions now, and i want to exchange them for fiat currency. How do I do it? A bank, allows me to send even bilions with a transaction. I can buy a bilion dollars paying by euros; how do I buy a bilion of dollars paying with bitcoin? Yes, you can withdraw from exchanges, buy.. 500k/month or so? I can sell them in private.. whatever is the solution, nowadays is way MORE complicated than using fiat currency.
3)Governments and big banks. There we go. They r already working on that, everyone who's a bit informed, knows it. What if they just declare crypto illegal around the world? "it's decentralized! u fool! u can't stop the progress!" yeye, ok.. but even if you won't accept such a decision, you will still need someone who will recognize the value of your currency.. you really think that most ppl in the world won't follow what the government says? We all know that the majority, won't follow the revolution.
Another scenario is that banks start creating their own currencies based on the blockchain technology. You really think that people are going to prefer some of the existing currencies over the one that their banks says is the good one? They simply won't.

So, I'd like to receive some answers to these points; I want to make this a good discussion, without flame, and without "WTF I LOVE BTC U DUMB" stuffs. Let me know your pow ppl!

First of all cryptocurrency is different in paper money and should not be compared to t given by the standardsnof thenpaper currency. They have so many contrasting traits that it would take time to list it but the resurgence of cruptocurrency now is proof of its resiliency

[pugman]

Okay, seems like you're really confused here.
1). For making a transaction between two cryptos, then you don't necessarily require an escrow. There's an exchange for that. An exchange is nothing but a medium where you trade in other words buy one crypto and sell another at the same time. And store the cryptos in the exchange even though such is not recommended as exchanges are having a lot of issues, hardware wallet is still the best option.

2). Best option for you to sell bitcoin would be to sell via https://localbitcoins.com ,where localbitcoin escrows funds for safety of both the parties. When you sell in local bitcoins, you have to provide your bank details and then the funds are sent to your bank first and then you ask the escrow to release the funds.

3). The governments can ban cryptos but they would have to face a huge consequence later on, that is they would lose 600 billion dollars and it would lead to black money dealings and this would lead to more and more corruption. Governments wouldn't want to do that. So if you're afraid of this, don't worry, you're good to go.

[kakoluckiam]

Okay, seems like you're really confused here.
1). For making a transaction between two cryptos, then you don't necessarily require an escrow. There's an exchange for that. An exchange is nothing but a medium where you trade in other words buy one crypto and sell another at the same time. And store the cryptos in the exchange even though such is not recommended as exchanges are having a lot of issues, hardware wallet is still the best option.

2). Best option for you to sell bitcoin would be to sell via https://localbitcoins.com ,where localbitcoin escrows funds for safety of both the parties. When you sell in local bitcoins, you have to provide your bank details and then the funds are sent to your bank first and then you ask the escrow to release the funds.

3). The governments can ban cryptos but they would have to face a huge consequence later on, that is they would lose 600 billion dollars and it would lead to black money dealings and this would lead to more and more corruption. Governments wouldn't want to do that. So if you're afraid of this, don't worry, you're good to go.

Im not confused at all, I've been trading for years on exchanges.
Just I don't see such a bright future for cryptos to be used by the majority of the population.
They simply won't, because, at the moment, there is actually no reason at all a persons should prefer to pay a transaction via cryptos over fiat or any other traditional method (paypal ecc).
Let's be honest, those using crypto are those who believe in the world's changing and those speculating the most they can.
90+% of btc holders have less than 1.0 btc.. I mean, claming a revolution on 2k usd that became 4k..
I'm not saying I don't believe in that, I'm holding tons of cryptos myself. I just don't think that things will be easy as most ppl believe

[krishnapramod]

Like few others mentioned, Bitcoin wasn't meant to replace fiat, but as an alternative to fiat. As far as a third-party is concerned, atomic swaps or atomic cross-chain trading and even decentralized exchanges does make it to the list.

The governments can ban Bitcoin whenever they like, but the point is it isn't going to be effective. Like you said, you will still need someone who will recognize the value of your currency. In 2010, someone sold a couple of pizzas for 10,000 Bitcoins and recently someone bought a Lamborghini with Bitcoin.

Bitcoin doesn't derive its value from any government, but from the community that backs it. Yeah, if some major governments ban Bitcoin then it definitely would slow down its progress, will affect adoption, but still if the community is big and strong enough and Bitcoin is being exchanged for goods and services, it would have value.

Centralized cryptocurrencies are just digital versions of fiat, I don't see any difference between them. Comparing them with decentralized cryptos is like apples to oranges.
 

We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run. - Amara's law

Satoshi Nakamoto gave the world an idea that there could be a better alternative to the existing fiat system, a decentralized system. And since Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are in its nascent stage and yet to reach any substantial mainstream adoption, we tend to overestimate the short-term effect of a new technology by speculating on it, but underestimate the potential of this idea can have in the long run, maybe in the next 10 to 20 years, it would indeed be disrupting and revolutionizing.

How long until mainstream adoption? Previous revolutions in money. In the mid 90s, you still couldn't pay with a credit card in many places. I predict it will take 15-20 years for mainstream adoption of Bitcoin. We are in a race because governments around the world are trying to ban cash and force us to adopt a different sort of digital currency with complete surveillance, where they can flip and switch and you will no longer exist as a person if you doing anything they consider radical.
- Andreas Antonopoulos

[pugman]

Im not confused at all, I've been trading for years on exchanges.
Just I don't see such a bright future for cryptos to be used by the majority of the population.
They simply won't, because, at the moment, there is actually no reason at all a persons should prefer to pay a transaction via cryptos over fiat or any other traditional method (paypal ecc).
Let's be honest, those using crypto are those who believe in the world's changing and those speculating the most they can.
90+% of btc holders have less than 1.0 btc.. I mean, claming a revolution on 2k usd that became 4k..
I'm not saying I don't believe in that, I'm holding tons of cryptos myself. I just don't think that things will be easy as most ppl believe

You're kidding right? Do you even know how many people have lump amount of bitcoins stored in their hardware wallets?
Things may not be easy but people have to man up and deal with it or be a wuss and run away.
Wait a minute, you say you're holding tons of cryptos but don't know how trading works? The OP clearly states so. Correct me if I misunderstood.
You don't believe in cryptos, fine, not an issue here. Everyone has their own views and opinions.

[kakoluckiam]

Im not confused at all, I've been trading for years on exchanges.
Just I don't see such a bright future for cryptos to be used by the majority of the population.
They simply won't, because, at the moment, there is actually no reason at all a persons should prefer to pay a transaction via cryptos over fiat or any other traditional method (paypal ecc).
Let's be honest, those using crypto are those who believe in the world's changing and those speculating the most they can.
90+% of btc holders have less than 1.0 btc.. I mean, claming a revolution on 2k usd that became 4k..
I'm not saying I don't believe in that, I'm holding tons of cryptos myself. I just don't think that things will be easy as most ppl believe

You're kidding right? Do you even know how many people have lump amount of bitcoins stored in their hardware wallets?
Things may not be easy but people have to man up and deal with it or be a wuss and run away.
Wait a minute, you say you're holding tons of cryptos but don't know how trading works? The OP clearly states so. Correct me if I misunderstood.
You don't believe in cryptos, fine, not an issue here. Everyone has their own views and opinions.

I do believe in them. Just like in every business I do, I like to compare both benefits and risks.
The fact that more than 90% has less than 20k usd in coins, is demostrated. And it's not like I head about localbitcoins for the first time, lol.
It's only about scepticism, which I learned is the key to success in whatever busibess.

[pugman]

I do believe in them. Just like in every business I do, I like to compare both benefits and risks.
The fact that more than 90% has less than 20k usd in coins, is demostrated. And it's not like I head about localbitcoins for the first time, lol.
It's only about scepticism, which I learned is the key to success in whatever busibess.

Dude, bitcoin is not a business. This is what I call confusion(one of its many forms), it's okay if you're confused ,no one is going to do something to you for that. I'm telling, again, I agree to disagree on your statement that states 90% of crypto users have less than 20 k, that's just blatant assumptions.  I agree with you on one thing, being sceptic on certain scenarios, every where else it's mostly otherwise.

[jak3]

First of all Bitcoin is not being made to replace the faint currency. It is just been made as a another form of currency or unique digital currency. Of course the transaction time and risk involved in it are not solved yet but developers are working on it. If you see a transaction then they are being recorded just like accountancy or normal economics they will be recorded on the reference of money so it doesn't matter if you give something in exchange that is a separate matter to take care of.

[ClarksonI]

the simple fact that crypto is becoming so widespread in our world should be a sufficient answer to take a closer look at it, bitcoin and everything around

[ethergeek]

3)Governments and big banks. There we go. They r already working on that, everyone who's a bit informed, knows it. What if they just declare crypto illegal around the world? "it's decentralized! u fool! u can't stop the progress!" yeye, ok.. but even if you won't accept such a decision, you will still need someone who will recognize the value of your currency.. you really think that most ppl in the world won't follow what the government says? We all know that the majority, won't follow the revolution.
Another scenario is that banks start creating their own currencies based on the blockchain technology. You really think that people are going to prefer some of the existing currencies over the one that their banks say is the good one? They simply won't.

Actually, I think you touched the base here. Depending on how it will play out, we may have a serious financial revolution or a bubble burst and slow decline into a niche of digital goods for geeks.

Let's say is banks and governments will embrace blockchain & crypto.
Some (smaller countries & banks) will start supporting BTC, ETH or any other existing crypto. Why?
- easier to enter an existing market than create your own
- some of those 2014 BTC billionaires will look for an easy way to store & manage their assets - why not in a BTC-enabled bank?
- small countries may see it as a way to improve the well-being of their citizens
- when the rules change, opportunities arise and also in banking and govt world people know it and will try to take advantage


Other (big players) will rather go with their own. Why?
- rules change - take advantage (what I just wrote) - but why take someone else's rules if you can dictate your own?
- they will want to steal the wave and get even richer
- they will hope to take over the revolution, make it their own and then settle it down - so after few years, it's business as usual for them.

So in my opinion, if we want BTC to live on and actually change the way we are dealing with money, let's truly hop big players will be stupid enough not to embrace crypto until it is too late for them. Then I can see a chance for current small players become big players at crypto's back. And if a small bank makes it big because of e.g. BTC, it is less likely to reject it later on as it contributed itself to BTC popularization.

I hope you can follow my logic here and I didn't take too many shortcuts while laying that out