[LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)

[TheSwede75]

UPDATE: I am working with Ethan Burnside on a fair solution. He has several possible solutions that will be presented to the forum here once he is ready. The share sale will start at 8 pm Central and we are looking at possible ways to NOT wipe the order books but rather a hybrid solution.

I would like to point out that we are NOT trying to sell shares higher then the IPO set price, but are more concerned with a fair and honest IPO.

Ethan will post suggested solutions here when he is ready to do so.

Once again: I am sorry for the "bad start" as some people are describing it (though we have yet not sold any shares) but I had no control over when the asset was released and can honestly say I never expected it to happen so soon or with such massive interest.

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[San1ty]

doesn´t these times seem more humane to everyone?

Amsterdam (Netherlands)    Thursday, 1 August 2013, 00:00:00   CEST   UTC+2 hours
New York (U.S.A. - New York)    Wednesday, 31 July 2013, 18:00:00   EDT   UTC-4 hours
Beijing (China)                    Thursday, 1 August 2013, 06:00:00        CST  UTC+8 hours

Agreed, Even this variation is fine:

Amsterdam (Netherlands)    Thursday, 1 August 2013, 01:00:00   CEST   UTC+2 hours
New York (U.S.A. - New York)    Wednesday, 31 July 2013, 19:00:00   EDT   UTC-4 hours
Beijing (China)                    Thursday, 1 August 2013, 07:00:00        CST  UTC+8 hours

[aquarius]

There is a really easy solution to all the complaining about time.  Simply place the bid in the order book at the price you are willing to pay, and then go on with your life. 

If the order book is wiped, nobody is going to be able to get on the site anyway at IPO time, so you definitely have a better shot at getting the shares at the price you want to pay this way.  

If I were TheSwede75 I'd just release the shares now and be done with it - he's not going to to make everyone happy anyway.

yeah I agree, just release it and let the market sort it out

[cix888]

Every time I try to buy a share of ACTIVEMINING I get an error saying the time is up... their is too much overload on BTCT at the moment... Now people who will be filled on this IPO are people close to the server... I'm smelling a disaster... will be up all night just for the fun of it... not to mention that someone could place an order for all the shares easy...

[hammurabi]

In regular stock exchanges there is a reduction mechanism which is a bit unfair to small investors, but it works.
You put much more money to buy the shares and the amount you commited is used to calculate proportion what you get out of the whole pie.
Then the excess/unused money is returned.

Example:
Share price is 0.001
You want to buy 10000 shares. You pay 10000 * 0.001 = 10BTC

But demand is 10 times higher then supply, so what you get is:
1000 shares and return of 9000 * 0.001 = 9 BTC.

[afro25]

Great to be in the UK now... Don't know if I'll be able to handle 3am with a funeral to go to 6 hours later.

I'm biased because i've already placed bids and the new opening time isn't good for me, but there are going to be hundreds/thousands of people pissed off whichever way it turns out. It may as well just be released as it is, as I would think changing it will just piss more people off.

That and I've been in situations like this where i've been one of the first to invest and managed to lose it all because the administrator decided to do a reset and open it up later  

[zy02264]

UPDATE

THE IPO SHARE SALE HAS NOT YET STARTED!

We had MANY requests to not start the IPO at an arbitrary time, but give advanced notice of a time. This could NOT be done until voting was over and while we slept the IPO was approved. We will release ALL IPO shares for sale at IPO price at 8 PM CENTRAL TIME tonight (12 hours from NOW!)

We hope people understand that we are doing this to guarantee a 'fair' start to the IPO. I will communicate with Burnside on how to best release the shares.

You are doing an IPO to raise 7,000 BTC or 700,000 USD and you sleep?
Nice attitude.
Also the world doesn't revolve around CENTRAL TIME USA you better give times in UTC when doing IPO.
Anyway the time you say you will release the shares is my sleeping time so I'm OUT.

P.S. The biggest volume in FOREX trading is during LONDON trading ours.

TheSwede75 decide to start IPO during you sleep time. You become so unhappy. At the same time, you claim that he shouldn't sleep at all. Irony??

[vlaoou321]

UPDATE: I am working with Ethan Burnside on a fair solution. He has several possible solutions that will be presented to the forum here once he is ready. The share sale will start at 8 pm Central and we are looking at possible ways to NOT wipe the order books but rather a hybrid solution.

I would like to point out that we are NOT trying to sell shares higher then the IPO set price, but are more concerned with a fair and honest IPO.

Ethan will post suggested solutions here when he is ready to do so.

Once again: I am sorry for the "bad start" as some people are describing it (though we have yet not sold any shares) but I had no control over when the asset was released and can honestly say I never expected it to happen so soon or with such massive interest.

20:00 London time?

[beardays]

seems labcoin would make more money and it would be fairer to just let the market decide the price by leaving the orderbook open. with the mad rush in about 11 hours it will be mr.apache server that determines who can get shares and labcoin will make a lot less from this IPO (and more frustrated peeps).

Please tell me at least three reaons why free bidding would be fairer than the release at a fixed time with prior announcement? It isn't even about fair or not. There is a shareholder agreement and things were set in stone even before this discussion. "IPO at fixed time with enough time before release". Statements like this are binding.

I advise those who disagree to adjust and rethink their attitude instead of calling this "bad start" which it really isn't.

maybe fairer was the wrong word. he said it would be released at a fixed time but nobody expected the orderbook to start filling up more than 24 hours before the IPO.

I already mentioned some good reasons in my post why it would be better to allow open orders before IPO - mainly that it would be not just "luck" who managed to get an order through and also labcoin would make more from the IPO. However I think 24 hours of open orders before IPO is a little excessive

[cix888]

In regular stock exchanges there is a reduction mechanism which is a bit unfair to small investors, but it works.
You put much more money to buy the shares and the amount you commited is used to calculate proportion what you get out of the whole pie.
Then the excess/unused money is returned.

Example:
Share price is 0.001
You want to buy 10000 shares. You pay 10000 * 0.001 = 10BTC

But demand is 10 times higher then supply, so what you get is:
1000 shares and return of 9000 * 0.001 = 9 BTC.

I'm with you on that one... this is something Burnside should look at

[E.Sam]

In regular stock exchanges there is a reduction mechanism which is a bit unfair to small investors, but it works.
You put much more money to buy the shares and the amount you commited is used to calculate proportion what you get out of the whole pie.
Then the excess/unused money is returned.

Example:
Share price is 0.001
You want to buy 10000 shares. You pay 10000 * 0.001 = 10BTC

But demand is 10 times higher then supply, so what you get is:
1000 shares and return of 9000 * 0.001 = 9 BTC.

I'm with you on that one... this is something Burnside should look at

So the one with the biggest pockets get his required number of shares. i.e. I want to buy 10000, put a order @ 100000 just because I have the funds, and get my 10000.

Not sure if that's very fair either.

[BitHub]

test


so yeah, please address valuation question.

[hammurabi]

In regular stock exchanges there is a reduction mechanism which is a bit unfair to small investors, but it works.
You put much more money to buy the shares and the amount you commited is used to calculate proportion what you get out of the whole pie.
Then the excess/unused money is returned.

Example:
Share price is 0.001
You want to buy 10000 shares. You pay 10000 * 0.001 = 10BTC

But demand is 10 times higher then supply, so what you get is:
1000 shares and return of 9000 * 0.001 = 9 BTC.

I'm with you on that one... this is something Burnside should look at

It should be very easy to implement as well. Burnside will issue a labcoin-ipo-fund with unlimited supply at fixed price 0.001. When time is up:
Number of your labcoin-ipo-fund shares / all of labcoin-ipo-fund sold = percantage of real shares you bought.

[yufu571]

one tentative solution: set a restrction in buying volume of each account, which can benifit more investors, not just benifit big guys. Supposed the stock will rocket to the moon.

[damiano]

This is a no win situation.

I think wiping all the orders shouldn't even be an option.  There is no way the current servers can handle such a load.   Shit they barely can handle heavy trading at times

[San1ty]

In regular stock exchanges there is a reduction mechanism which is a bit unfair to small investors, but it works.
You put much more money to buy the shares and the amount you commited is used to calculate proportion what you get out of the whole pie.
Then the excess/unused money is returned.

Example:
Share price is 0.001
You want to buy 10000 shares. You pay 10000 * 0.001 = 10BTC

But demand is 10 times higher then supply, so what you get is:
1000 shares and return of 9000 * 0.001 = 9 BTC.

I'm with you on that one... this is something Burnside should look at

It should be very easy to implement as well. Burnside will issue a labcoin-ipo-fund with unlimited supply at fixed price 0.001. When time is up:
Number of your labcoin-ipo-fund shares / all of labcoin-ipo-fund sold = percantage of real shares you bought.

It's not bad, I prefer it to just selling 7.000.000 at 0.001 and first come first first. But it's a little unfair to the little guy .

[bitcoiner49er]

If you are going to take "bids", ie allow for buyers to pay more than the IPO, then you should not give the exact time it will be live. People will have to put in their bids and wait to see. Otherwise, as many have said, you will see a rush of bids at the end/beginning of the IPO. Let them put in what they will pay and not what they will pay to stop others from getting shares.

If you are only going to offer IPO @ 0.001, then yes wipe the bids and see if the servers can handle the load.

[cix888]

I sold 250 shares of Basic mining for this IPO and now... I'm going to get potentially 0 shares tonight because of the overload... just hit the book already

[matuszed]

I sold 250 shares of Basic mining for this IPO and now... I'm going to get potentially 0 shares tonight because of the overload... just hit the book already

The bottom line is the .001 price for the ipo is way too cheap.

[Rannasha]

one tentative solution: set a restrction in buying volume of each account, which can benifit more investors, not just benifit big guys. Supposed the stock will rocket to the moon.

Then the big buyers will make multiple accounts and afterwards transfer all shares to the main account.