[LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)

[klee]

jeez, the "speculators" are sounding crazy. AM is PROVEN, has the STRONGEST reputation at the moment and well into the future, and as long as they maintain market share in MID-LONG run their price is not overvalued. all these newbs

Yep, some crazy talk here, but in a world where a few posts can change the market, optimism is necessary to protect these securities. Personally I'm moving a big chunk into friedcat if Labcoin rises 5-10X. ASICMiner is the Coca Cola juggernaut here

It will be US (HashFast) vs China (Labcoin) IMHO. Bet on both and get rid of the others!
Quality vs Quantity..

Active mining.... Btc garden also in the mix

Yes if BTCGarden was not a scam they probably will fight with LC for China market!

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[VolanicEruptor]

Bitcoin will be currency wars x 1000 !

Another reason why there should be a minimum age requirement for bitcointalk..

[klee]

Bitcoin will be currency wars x 1000 !

Another reason why there should be a minimum age requirement for bitcointalk..

Ah no, cheap coins mate!   

[N_S]

Bitcoin will be currency wars x 1000 !

Another reason why there should be a minimum age requirement for bitcointalk..

I can't disagree. As someone relatively new to this arena, it's difficult wading through comments and finding out who has any idea what they're talking about. I really try to take opinions and comments based on their merit, but sometimes it's really hard to ignore the ways they're written.

[boyohi]

In January 2013 BTC prices..you do the math.

The return is astronomical.

How likely is it that an event like that is going to happen again? I'm sure most people at AM's IPO saw vast potential, just as the folks here see in Labcoin, ActM, etc., but I'm wondering - are we on the tip of the iceberg or has the time for 40-50x IPO pricing simply gone with AM? I can't imagine that's the case. The potential market for bitcoin is just too immense for there to be one mining company capable of returns like that.

Exciting times.

With IPO prices as low as Labcoin's or AMC's, 100x is feasible.

Ok. Will someone please crush my dreams and explain to me why this isn't going to actually happen?

Well. AM benefited from two multipliers, the price of bitcoin and the price of their shares. Labcoin and AMC will only have the price of their shares. I don't think Bitcoin will be worth $1k anytime soon. If/when they deliver, the fact that they started IPO 100x cheaper than AM will play a factor. Its really up to the psychology of the investors how high the price will go. If Labcoin start paying out 0.001BTC a week, I won't be surprised at all if they hit 0.1BTC a share.

0.001BTC a week for labcoin is equivalent to 0.025BTC a week for AM. That's 10k BTC a week divided by the numbers of shares.

[physalis]

If there is any stock on BTCT right now that you should hold long-term, it's this one.I would even be hesitant to throw my money into asicminer right now. Labcoin just makes sense.  Labcoin is the only one who takes the win for earliest deployment date, most aggressive development and carries the most potential to increase in value from a start-up.
A company like ASICMINER is striving to maintain value, Activemining is great but is still going to take awhile with its 28nm development, and icedrill has an ask wall that's bigger than China's (good luck making any short/medium term gains on that one).  

If anyone has shares in ASICMINER,  I would selling them off. Labcoin is the baby, perfectly positioned to grow into a solid competitor of AM.  Don't invest in the old senile dinosaur struggling to keep its own mass ... invest in the start-up with 100x growth potential.  

I absolutely agree. I believe LC is still way undervalued, even in its still unproven state.

The only reason for me to be afraid to invest here would be if there was the possibility that they are complete liars, and the whole project nothing but a scam.
But if you followed the IPO, you know that they deliberately turned down holding it auction-style, which would have given them probably at least double the IPO money. That is pretty much the most anti-scam move they could have made, and gives me about 99.9% certainty that it's not a scam. If they are a scam, that would have been the most irrational and deceiving step I'd have ever seen in a scam.

And to see why they are undervalued, consider this:
Why for example is ActM valued at ~0.005 now, with 25 million shares, and LC at ~0.0025 with only 10 million shares? It's absolutely beyond me.
If you see them at the same level of uncertainty right now, LC should be at least at 0.01 already (since they have 2.5x less shares).
ActM has nothing in reach, the Avalon Clones are delayed and will very likely never see ROI. Buying them already was a bad investment by ActM.
The 28nm development... has it even started? If I understand correctly, they only have a not-even-official partnership with eASIC to start development on them. It will take a long time before anything comes of it.
LC on the other hand had their chips taped out before they even started the IPO. They have been developing since last year.
And now with Swede confirming that the chips will come and get hashing within the next few weeks, it really makes no sense to me that somehow, LC is still valued less than ActM by the market.
Can anyone help me understand what's the reason for this? Because I just don't see it.

I'm not saying all this to push the price or anything, just stating my completely honest opinion. I have no interest in a short-term push of the price, because I'm certain LC's success will do that on its own soon enough.
I'm balls deep invested in LC and I believe it might turn out to be the best investment I have made in my entire life, right next to getting invested in bitcoin in the first place.

[boyohi]

I'm not saying all this to push the price or anything, just stating my completely honest opinion.
I'm balls deep invested in LC and I believe it might turn out to be the best investment I have made in my entire life, right next to getting invested in bitcoin in the first place.

I, too, believe this.

[abuelau]

+1 to the 3 posts above.

[freedomno1]

+1 to the 3 posts above.

I love when the page changes 

[klee]

If there is any stock on BTCT right now that you should hold long-term, it's this one.I would even be hesitant to throw my money into asicminer right now. Labcoin just makes sense.  Labcoin is the only one who takes the win for earliest deployment date, most aggressive development and carries the most potential to increase in value from a start-up.
A company like ASICMINER is striving to maintain value, Activemining is great but is still going to take awhile with its 28nm development, and icedrill has an ask wall that's bigger than China's (good luck making any short/medium term gains on that one).  

If anyone has shares in ASICMINER,  I would selling them off. Labcoin is the baby, perfectly positioned to grow into a solid competitor of AM.  Don't invest in the old senile dinosaur struggling to keep its own mass ... invest in the start-up with 100x growth potential.  

I absolutely agree. I believe LC is still way undervalued, even in its still unproven state.

The only reason for me to be afraid to invest here would be if there was the possibility that they are complete liars, and the whole project nothing but a scam.
But if you followed the IPO, you know that they deliberately turned down holding it auction-style, which would have given them probably at least double the IPO money. That is pretty much the most anti-scam move they could have made, and gives me about 99.9% certainty that it's not a scam. If they are a scam, that would have been the most irrational and deceiving step I'd have ever seen in a scam.

And to see why they are undervalued, consider this:
Why for example is ActM valued at ~0.005 now, with 25 million shares, and LC at ~0.0025 with only 10 million shares? It's absolutely beyond me.
If you see them at the same level of uncertainty right now, LC should be at least at 0.01 already (since they have 2.5x less shares).
ActM has nothing in reach, the Avalon Clones are delayed and will very likely never see ROI. Buying them already was a bad investment by ActM.
The 28nm development... has it even started? If I understand correctly, they only have a not-even-official partnership with eASIC to start development on them. It will take a long time before anything comes of it.
LC on the other hand had their chips taped out before they even started the IPO. They have been developing since last year.
And now with Swede confirming that the chips will come and get hashing within the next few weeks, it really makes no sense to me that somehow, LC is still valued less than ActM by the market.
Can anyone help me understand what's the reason for this? Because I just don't see it.

I'm not saying all this to push the price or anything, just stating my completely honest opinion. I have no interest in a short-term push of the price, because I'm certain LC's success will do that on its own soon enough.
I'm balls deep invested in LC and I believe it might turn out to be the best investment I have made in my entire life, right next to getting invested in bitcoin in the first place.

Please stop analyzing it seriously and troll like the noobs for/against LC! This is not fun anymore...

[Mabsark]

In January 2013 BTC prices..you do the math.

The return is astronomical.

How likely is it that an event like that is going to happen again? I'm sure most people at AM's IPO saw vast potential, just as the folks here see in Labcoin, ActM, etc., but I'm wondering - are we on the tip of the iceberg or has the time for 40-50x IPO pricing simply gone with AM? I can't imagine that's the case. The potential market for bitcoin is just too immense for there to be one mining company capable of returns like that.

Exciting times.

With IPO prices as low as Labcoin's or AMC's, 100x is feasible.

Ok. Will someone please crush my dreams and explain to me why this isn't going to actually happen?

Well. AM benefited from two multipliers, the price of bitcoin and the price of their shares. Labcoin and AMC will only have the price of their shares. I don't think Bitcoin will be worth $1k anytime soon. If/when they deliver, the fact that they started IPO 100x cheaper than AM will play a factor. Its really up to the psychology of the investors how high the price will go. If Labcoin start paying out 0.001BTC a week, I won't be surprised at all if they hit 0.1BTC a share.

0.001BTC a week for labcoin is equivalent to 0.025BTC a week for AM. That's 10k BTC a week divided by the numbers of shares.

If AM shares paid 0.025 BTC divs and were worth 3.5 BTC, then Labcoin shares that paid 0.001 BTC divs would be worth 0.14 BTC. If Labcoin had 10% of the network hash rate and maintained that amount, each share would receive about 0.000504 BTC per difficulty round.

Blocks/Round = 2016
Bitcoin/Block = 25 BTC
Bitcoin/Round = 2016 * 25 = 50,400 BTC

50,400 BTC * 10% = 5,040 BTC
5,040 BTC  / 10,000,000 shares = 0.000504 BTC/share

Realistically, rounds will take about 10-14 days, depending on the rate at which difficulty is increasing. Weekly dividends of 0.001 BTC are far too high for 10% network share and would need to consist mostly of hardware sales.

[afrotec]

For all the commotion in this thread, I'm surprised more people aren't in the Labcoin IRC channel.

Come discuss Labccoin and shit! The channel is #labcoin

You can use the webchat: http://webchat.freenode.net/

Or theres plenty of clients you can install, I like XChat: http://xchat.org/download/

[kingcrimson]

You may be giving Active Mining too little credit, there is the argument Labcoin is working with old technology that is already being phased out, and in a couple months obsolete... while ActM is at the very forefront and poised to be first company to the market with 28nm technology. We will see how it plays out, but there will be a time that Labcoin can fall into a deep disadvantage

[damiano]

You may be giving Active Mining too little credit, there is the argument Labcoin is working with old technology that is already being phased out, and in a couple months obsolete... while ActM is at the very forefront and poised to be first company to the market with 28nm technology. We will see how it plays out, but there will be a time that Labcoin can fall into a deep disadvantage

I would rather be hashing now with older technology vs waiting a few months for newer tech.

Labcoin will have 65mm soon for next phase and probably 28mm after that. 

[boyohi]

In January 2013 BTC prices..you do the math.

The return is astronomical.

How likely is it that an event like that is going to happen again? I'm sure most people at AM's IPO saw vast potential, just as the folks here see in Labcoin, ActM, etc., but I'm wondering - are we on the tip of the iceberg or has the time for 40-50x IPO pricing simply gone with AM? I can't imagine that's the case. The potential market for bitcoin is just too immense for there to be one mining company capable of returns like that.

Exciting times.

With IPO prices as low as Labcoin's or AMC's, 100x is feasible.

Ok. Will someone please crush my dreams and explain to me why this isn't going to actually happen?

Well. AM benefited from two multipliers, the price of bitcoin and the price of their shares. Labcoin and AMC will only have the price of their shares. I don't think Bitcoin will be worth $1k anytime soon. If/when they deliver, the fact that they started IPO 100x cheaper than AM will play a factor. Its really up to the psychology of the investors how high the price will go. If Labcoin start paying out 0.001BTC a week, I won't be surprised at all if they hit 0.1BTC a share.

0.001BTC a week for labcoin is equivalent to 0.025BTC a week for AM. That's 10k BTC a week divided by the numbers of shares.

If AM shares paid 0.025 BTC divs and were worth 3.5 BTC, then Labcoin shares that paid 0.001 BTC divs would be worth 0.14 BTC. If Labcoin had 10% of the network hash rate and maintained that amount, each share would receive about 0.000504 BTC per difficulty round.

Blocks/Round = 2016
Bitcoin/Block = 25 BTC
Bitcoin/Round = 2016 * 25 = 50,400 BTC

50,400 BTC * 10% = 5,040 BTC
5,040 BTC  / 10,000,000 shares = 0.000504 BTC/share

Realistically, rounds will take about 10-14 days, depending on the rate at which difficulty is increasing. Weekly dividends of 0.001 BTC are far too high for 10% network share and would need to consist mostly of hardware sales.

Yes you're right but most of AM div are from hardware sales and not mining. Before the hardware sale it was 0.011~BTC and the week after 0.036~BTC. Of course they didn't release all the funds from the hardware sales at once. They are trickling it into the dividends and having a nice average of around 0.025BTC.

[afrotec]

You may be giving Active Mining too little credit, there is the argument Labcoin is working with old technology that is already being phased out, and in a couple months obsolete... while ActM is at the very forefront and poised to be first company to the market with 28nm technology. We will see how it plays out, but there will be a time that Labcoin can fall into a deep disadvantage

I agree. Additional things to note are that ActiveMining has formed an advisory board composed of forum members, and I think their partnership with eAsic is also considerably valuable. You can expect some considerable movement when that press release drops.

Not to mention you could literally pick up the phone and call Ken directly and ask him any question you wanted.

[physalis]

You may be giving Active Mining too little credit, there is the argument Labcoin is working with old technology that is already being phased out, and in a couple months obsolete... while ActM is at the very forefront and poised to be first company to the market with 28nm technology. We will see how it plays out, but there will be a time that Labcoin can fall into a deep disadvantage

"In a couple months obsolete"... show me some math behind that or I'm just going to say you're wrong here.
I believe we are orders of magnitude away from a difficulty where mining with current ASIC technology becomes unprofitable on electricity cost alone.

[boyohi]

You may be giving Active Mining too little credit, there is the argument Labcoin is working with old technology that is already being phased out, and in a couple months obsolete... while ActM is at the very forefront and poised to be first company to the market with 28nm technology. We will see how it plays out, but there will be a time that Labcoin can fall into a deep disadvantage

"In a couple months obsolete"... show me some math behind that or I'm just going to say you're wrong here.
I believe we are orders of magnitude away from a difficulty where mining with current ASIC technology becomes unprofitable on electricity cost alone.

I think the electricity cost will be a factor once the reward halves again, 2016 I believe.

[szmarco]

You may be giving Active Mining too little credit, there is the argument Labcoin is working with old technology that is already being phased out, and in a couple months obsolete... while ActM is at the very forefront and poised to be first company to the market with 28nm technology. We will see how it plays out, but there will be a time that Labcoin can fall into a deep disadvantage

"In a couple months obsolete"... show me some math behind that or I'm just going to say you're wrong here.
I believe we are orders of magnitude away from a difficulty where mining with current ASIC technology becomes unprofitable on electricity cost alone.

I think the electricity cost will be a factor once the reward halves again, 2016 I believe.

I introduce 《The 3rd industrial revolution》 of Mr.Jeremy Rifkin to you. In his opinion,the electricity cost would not be a problem if the new energy industry rise up,and The bitcoin system is very suitable for the new biosphere economics.

[TheSwede75]

"Update":  Oh snap - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-20/bitcoin-spawns-china-virtual-ipos-as-u-s-scrutiny-grows.html

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