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Vigil
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September 29, 2013, 05:45:58 AM |
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Those who concluded this is a complete scam please explain how this scam works? Who not just go with $700k and run away, actually they could get double of that value then. Why waste so much time just for the rest 30%? I cannot understand the logic.
To me this is just a poorly managed project. The whole team was heavily based on Howard Wang, who got an offer from US university and left just before they got chips. Howard is not just the key developer but also the access to university facility. Their replacement has did a very poor job and always gave a over optimistic estimation. Now they gave up and have decided to outsourced all the assembly and deploying.
Because $700k isn't enough. |
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Sou
Full Member
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Activity: 210
Merit: 100
(Bitcoin related text here)
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September 29, 2013, 05:52:29 AM |
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JohnyBigs
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September 29, 2013, 06:19:17 AM |
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There QA doesn't matter, it's useless:
1. No hashing until October 15th the earliest, which they will probably miss deadline.
2. Head Engineer Howard left a month ago, they have no hardware person, and have sent chips and boards to 3rd party.
3. There is no Team, besides Sam, which could be Alessia
4. No exchange yet, they will only add hash after they are taken off of BTCT.
This thing is worthless, and will continue to plunge, as again nothing will happen until after October 15th, and they will be off of the exchange way before then.
Don't worry though make sure you hold until the Q&A tomorrow so you realize how worthless it is, when they tell you please wait 3 weeks until our 3rd party imaginary person hopefully fixes things, then you can sell for another 60% loss.
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BitThink
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
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September 29, 2013, 06:28:12 AM |
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Interesting, three of the strong believers, including one that believed it will be 5 BTC, now changed their roles. Isn't this the behaviour you hated the most before?
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BitThink
Legendary
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Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
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September 29, 2013, 06:37:50 AM |
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Those who concluded this is a complete scam please explain how this scam works? Who not just go with $700k and run away, actually they could get double of that value then. Why waste so much time just for the rest 30%? I cannot understand the logic.
To me this is just a poorly managed project. The whole team was heavily based on Howard Wang, who got an offer from US university and left just before they got chips. Howard is not just the key developer but also the access to university facility. Their replacement has did a very poor job and always gave a over optimistic estimation. Now they gave up and have decided to outsourced all the assembly and deploying.
Read back a few pages. 1) The CEO claims no relation to Labcoin. 2) The chat log showing delaria recruiting an inventor (agath) and admitting to being Alissa Tatti (obvious relation to CEO that claims no involvement). 3) The connection between Alissa Tatti and a known bitcoin scammer 4) Labcoin account denying the involvement of the above people and claiming Alissa Tatti left the company shortly after recruiting people. 5) theSeven stating that he has had continued contact with Alissa (I believe he stated she was the primary contact but I'd have to go find that). It is my opinion that Swede and theSeven are unwitting accomplices in this scam. They were hired and believed this project was legit. Sam has a lot of explaining to do if he is to convince me this isn't a scam. Tomorrow should be interesting. I know all of these. I am not asking why we think they are scammers. I am asking how the scam works. Why they chose to stay after IPO? Why they chose to give up the chance to double their money on IPO, but to stay just for their 30% shares? Why they kept skewing up their share price and at least 2/3 of their shares are not sold now? What's the motive for them to appear today? Try to pump up the price to get just some hundreds of BTC more? I'm not saying it is definitely not a scam. I just cannot understand all these if it is a scam. All these are much easier to understand if it is a project poorly managed. |
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dhenson
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
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September 29, 2013, 06:43:31 AM |
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I know all of these. I am not asking why we think them are scammers. I am asking how the scam works. Why they chose to stay after IPO? Why they chose to give up the chance to double their money on IPO, but to stay just for their 30% shares? Why they kept skewing up their share price and at least 2/3 of their shares are not sold now? What's the motive for them to appear today? Try to pump up the price to get just some hundreds of BTC more?
I'm not saying it is definitely not a scam. I just cannot understand all these if it is a scam. All these are much easier to understand if it is a project poorly managed.
For the longest time I kept going back to the IPO and wondering the same thing. Then it dawned on me that theSwede wasn't in on it. He was acting in good faith and was in charge of the IPO. At this point I don't feel we can assume the same for 'Sam'/Alessia/delaria. edit... for completeness as I hate when people just pick pieces of my posts to respond to. The only explanation I can think of is that they are using the long delay's in updates to game the share price. Imagine how much you could have made if you knew exactly when to buy and sell based on what you were going to say? It's weak, but all I can come up with to explain it. |
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bclcjunkie
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September 29, 2013, 06:45:13 AM |
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i'm done with this charade by labcoin...  there's just too much shady stuff going on that i don't think there's any strong reason left for me to even consider investing in this fiasco.. i mean come on: not a f..ng single picture nor straight answer... lucky for me it was a small amount worth the risk... and i pity those who probably lost their savings.... pulled out as much as i could before losing entirely everything... |
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BitThink
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
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September 29, 2013, 06:57:01 AM |
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I know all of these. I am not asking why we think them are scammers. I am asking how the scam works. Why they chose to stay after IPO? Why they chose to give up the chance to double their money on IPO, but to stay just for their 30% shares? Why they kept skewing up their share price and at least 2/3 of their shares are not sold now? What's the motive for them to appear today? Try to pump up the price to get just some hundreds of BTC more?
I'm not saying it is definitely not a scam. I just cannot understand all these if it is a scam. All these are much easier to understand if it is a project poorly managed.
For the longest time I kept going back to the IPO and wondering the same thing. Then it dawned on me that theSwede wasn't in on it. He was acting in good faith and was in charge of the IPO. At this point I don't feel we can assume the same for 'Sam'/Alessia/delaria. edit... for completeness as I hate when people just pick pieces of my posts to respond to. The only explanation I can think of is that they are using the long delay's in updates to game the share price. Imagine how much you could have made if you knew exactly when to buy and sell based on what you were going to say? It's weak, but all I can come up with to explain it. Yes, manipulating the market could bring them some benefits, but because of the sheer order book, they can only get much, compared with 7000 BTC they got already. Much less than they just slowly selling all their shares and disappear for ever. I guess even finally this becomes a scam, at least in the beginning they still want to build something real to bring them much more than 7k BTC. |
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bclcjunkie
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September 29, 2013, 06:59:22 AM |
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so spot on mate...wish i saw this coming when it was getting so obvious (refusing to post pictures, avoiding answers and etc).. The only explanation I can think of is that they are using the long delay's in updates to game the share price. Imagine how much you could have made if you knew exactly when to buy and sell based on what you were going to say? It's weak, but all I can come up with to explain it.
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BitThink
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
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September 29, 2013, 07:00:49 AM |
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i'm done with this charade by labcoin... there's just too much shady stuff going on that i don't think there's any strong reason left for me to even consider investing in this fiasco.. i mean come on: not a f..ng single picture nor straight answer... lucky for me it was a small amount worth the risk... and i pity those who probably lost their savings.... pulled out as much as i could before losing entirely everything... It does not matter how much we spent on this before. The only thing matters is whether the current price justifies the risk reward ratio. |
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bclcjunkie
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September 29, 2013, 07:10:36 AM |
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so you're still seeing some risk/reward ratio in this?  it's avalanche waiting to slam hard... the exchange is closing in a week time and labcoin hasn't even come up with proper share migration plans... sure you can try to flip few times on its way down but i think that opportunity window is gone by now... too risky imho... i'm done with this charade by labcoin... there's just too much shady stuff going on that i don't think there's any strong reason left for me to even consider investing in this fiasco.. i mean come on: not a f..ng single picture nor straight answer... lucky for me it was a small amount worth the risk... and i pity those who probably lost their savings.... pulled out as much as i could before losing entirely everything... It does not matter how much we spent on this before. The only thing matters is whether the current price justifies the risk reward ratio. |
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TMAN
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1808
Exchange Bitcoin quickly-https://blockchain.com.do
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September 29, 2013, 07:26:05 AM |
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It is looking bad, but this has altered the risk reward ratio.. More risk and a much higher reward. I've bought some more as I love a gamble.. The whole premise of this from the beginning was a 1 in 10 shot of it happening. Now they have chips, but they are fucked or the pcb is fucked. Either way I don't believe it is vapourware or a scam. Ill be a bag holder if it is a scam, but that's why I've invested what I can afford to lose. I won't be bankrupt, I will be pissed off that I made a bad call. If people are investing more than they can afford to lose then they are the fools
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bitwhizz
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
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September 29, 2013, 07:29:02 AM |
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It is looking bad, but this has altered the risk reward ratio.. More risk and a much higher reward. I've bought some more as I love a gamble.. The whole premise of this from the beginning was a 1 in 10 shot of it happening. Now they have chips, but they are fucked or the pcb is fucked. Either way I don't believe it is vapourware or a scam. Ill be a bag holder if it is a scam, but that's why I've invested what I can afford to lose. I won't be bankrupt, I will be pissed off that I made a bad call. If people are investing more than they can afford to lose then they are the fools
Read the past 5 pages to aknowledge this is guaranteed a known scam, you are not gambling you are throwing your money down the bin.but hey maybe you hit my sell orders |
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physalis
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September 29, 2013, 07:29:18 AM |
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Those who concluded this is a complete scam please explain how this scam works? Who not just go with $700k and run away, actually they could get double of that value then. Why waste so much time just for the rest 30%? I cannot understand the logic.
Because this was planned as a long con, not just a quick 700k. They made a lot more than that. "Why waste so much time just for the rest 30%?" First, it wasn't as much time as you're thinking... What did they have to do? just follow this thread like most of us did, and post delay after delay in stupid one-liner posts. Make some bad photos/photoshops when pressure for proof gets too high (since there are enough suckers who'll gladly fall for some fake proof - yeah ytterbium, that's directed at you) - but that's about it. It's not really a job that keeps them very busy... Second, these "rest 30%" were at times traded at 4x the IPO price. And they probably planned on pushing it up further, meanwhile gaming the market and making lots of money by trading. There is absolutely no doubt that they could make more money this way compared to just running away after IPO. And third, and most importantly, because doing it as a long con (con comes from "confidence") creates an uncertain atmosphere around the victims, exactly what we have right now. Some people still believing that it's not a scam, some frustrated, everyone just falling over each other discussing it to death... If they just ran away immediately with the money, everyone here would be happy holding hands and trying to bring them to justice. Instead, right now, how many are talking to the police, how many are planning to? It gives them time and it exhausts the collective need for justice. |
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bitwhizz
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
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September 29, 2013, 07:32:06 AM |
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Those who concluded this is a complete scam please explain how this scam works? Who not just go with $700k and run away, actually they could get double of that value then. Why waste so much time just for the rest 30%? I cannot understand the logic.
Because this was planned as a long con, not just a quick 700k. They made a lot more than that. "Why waste so much time just for the rest 30%?" First, it wasn't as much time as you're thinking... What did they have to do? just follow this thread like most of us did, and post delay after delay in stupid one-liner posts. Make some bad photoshops when pressure for proof gets too high (since there are enough suckers who'll gladly fall for some fake proof - yeah ytterbium, that's directed at you) - but that's about it. It's not really a job that keeps them very busy... Second, these "rest 30%" were at times traded at 4x the IPO price. And they probably planned on pushing it up further, meanwhile gaming the market and making lots of money by trading. There is absolutely no doubt that they could make more money this way compared to just running away after IPO. And third, and most importantly, because doing it as a long con (con comes from "confidence") creates an uncertain atmosphere around the victims, exactly what we have right now. Some people still believing that it's not a scam, some frustrated, everyone just falling over each other discussing it to death... If they just ran away immediately with the money, everyone here would be happy holding hands and trying to bring them to justice. Instead, right now, how many are talking to the police, how many are planning to? It gives them time and it exhausts the collective need for justice. +1111111 Well they are going to have to run and hide with that money from the police, as i think its safe to say we now do know their real names are valid and they can be tracked down |
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TMAN
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1808
Exchange Bitcoin quickly-https://blockchain.com.do
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September 29, 2013, 07:36:38 AM |
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Then why are over 2 million shares still in the initial account?the scam makes 0 sense unless all the shares were traded. Burnside said the other day 66% of shares are still in the initial account. A sensible answer is that wang and other team members have been paid the shares.
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physalis
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September 29, 2013, 07:42:50 AM |
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It is looking bad, but this has altered the risk reward ratio.. More risk and a much higher reward. I've bought some more as I love a gamble.. The whole premise of this from the beginning was a 1 in 10 shot of it happening. Now they have chips, but they are fucked or the pcb is fucked. Either way I don't believe it is vapourware or a scam. Ill be a bag holder if it is a scam, but that's why I've invested what I can afford to lose. I won't be bankrupt, I will be pissed off that I made a bad call. If people are investing more than they can afford to lose then they are the fools
You're falling for the sunk cost fallacy. This "meh I'm in it it so long now/I have lost so much already" thinking is bad investment strategy. If the amount you have in here is low, fine. But you shouldnt do that in the future. From wikipedia.: Many people have strong misgivings about "wasting" resources (loss aversion). In the above example involving a non-refundable movie ticket, many people, for example, would feel obliged to go to the movie despite not really wanting to, because doing otherwise would be wasting the ticket price; they feel they've passed the point of no return. This is sometimes referred to as the sunk cost fallacy. Economists would label this behavior "irrational": it is inefficient because it misallocates resources by depending on information that is irrelevant to the decision being made. Colloquially, this is known as "throwing good money after bad".[6]
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physalis
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September 29, 2013, 07:47:44 AM |
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Then why are over 2 million shares still in the initial account?the scam makes 0 sense unless all the shares were traded. Burnside said the other day 66% of shares are still in the initial account. A sensible answer is that wang and other team members have been paid the shares.
That's really easy to answer... They just couldn't dump 3 million shares on the market in whole... There's little profit in that. That's why they need to create these waves in price with their suspiciously timed updates. It's no coincidence that this stock behaved like a day-traders wet dream. |
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TsuyokuNaritai
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September 29, 2013, 07:50:19 AM |
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I am not winding down because of anything LABCOIN related. The issues we have are not related to any one asset.
Can we put this one to rest now?  |
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Mabsark
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 826
Merit: 1004
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September 29, 2013, 08:00:19 AM |
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Those who concluded this is a complete scam please explain how this scam works? Who not just go with $700k and run away, actually they could get double of that value then. Why waste so much time just for the rest 30%? I cannot understand the logic.
To me this is just a poorly managed project. The whole team was heavily based on Howard Wang, who got an offer from US university and left just before they got chips. Howard is not just the key developer but also the access to university facility. Their replacement has did a very poor job and always gave a over optimistic estimation. Now they gave up and have decided to outsourced all the assembly and deploying.
Read back a few pages. 1) The CEO claims no relation to Labcoin. 2) The chat log showing delaria recruiting an inventor (agath) and admitting to being Alissa Tatti (obvious relation to CEO that claims no involvement). 3) The connection between Alissa Tatti and a known bitcoin scammer 4) Labcoin account denying the involvement of the above people and claiming Alissa Tatti left the company shortly after recruiting people. 5) theSeven stating that he has had continued contact with Alissa (I believe he stated she was the primary contact but I'd have to go find that). It is my opinion that Swede and theSeven are unwitting accomplices in this scam. They were hired and believed this project was legit. Sam has a lot of explaining to do if he is to convince me this isn't a scam. Tomorrow should be interesting. I've read a few pages back and can't find any of this info. I can however find info which is similar to this which shows that you are twisting things to make them look worse for Labcoin. For example, you say "1) The CEO claims no relation to Labcoin." The reality is that the iTec Pro Ltd CEO has no direct involvement in the Labcoin project and no working knowledge of it. Do you honestly find it unusual that a CEO doesn't know the ins-and-outs of one of their companies projects? The same is true with the rest of your points. You are simply spinning the situations to make Labcoin look as bad as possible. Also, burnside never said that 1 million shares have been sold, so all the idiots who keep making that claim are simply full of shit. |
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