Investing in a crypto currency casino (Just-Dice)

[Juandelacruzq]

I’m considering investing in an online crypto currency casino. While I’m quite sure it’s a good idea, I’d like to know if anyone can find any flaw in my reasoning.

By investing, your deposit is added to the casino bankroll, so that players gamble against it. You get a share of the site profits proportional to how much of the bankroll you own. So if the bankroll is 99 and you invest 1, the total becomes 100 and you earn 1% of the casino profits (your share changes as other people invest or divest).

The casino I’m thinking about is Just Dice, which is the oldest casino of this kind. It originally worked with Bitcoins, but now it uses another currency, called CLAM. The owner, Dooglus on Bitcointalk forums and Reddit, has been a very active and trustworthy user for years. The casino had a bankroll of about 50000 BTC for months and there was never any solvency issue (https://blockchain.info/charts/balance?address=14o7zMMUJkG6De24r3JkJ6USgChq7iWF86&timespan=all). I don’t see him running away with the money.

While using a small currency may seem negative, in this case it actually boosts expected returns drastically. That’s because CLAM is a proof of stake currency, and while Just Dice’s bankroll is only about 40% of the total CLAM supply, it stakes about 85% of the coins (so more than double than it “should”). This is more beneficial the highest the inflation rate is, and CLAM’s inflation rate is still quite high nowadays (1 block is mined per minute and the reward is 1 CLAM, so 1440 coins a day are created, or 525600 a year, while 2.78 million coins exist).

Just Dice’s edge is 1%, and it charges a 10% fee to investors. I have made an spreadsheet with the expected annual returns (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13REkpErWxlXs2T5kNHKZlHsNvyuGAxezfB_iaUrskQ4/edit?usp=sharing), considering both that the market cap in USD stays constant (which is extremely conservative as I’ll explain later) and coin price stays constant (which is more reasonable). In the first case you should expect an annual return of 26.71% in USD, 53.14% if CLAM’s price doesn’t change. These returns are already quite impressive, but you should expect even higher ones if BTC keeps rising, as it affects CLAM’s price favourably.

Historically investing in Just Dice’s has been extremely profitable, much more than those expected returns. $1 invested on 3/7/2015 would be more than $26.54 on 11/27/2017 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238613.msg26095416#msg26095416). That’s a compound annual return of 232%.

These are some scenarios you can expect while you buy and hold Just Dice:

1. Other investors withdraw and sell all the CLAM they earn (staking plus casino profits), which are gambled afterwards. Your share of JD’s bankroll keeps increasing, so you both stake more and get more from player's losses. Market cap value doesn’t change (it slightly increases as long as you hold).

2. Other investors just hold too. CLAM are being hoarded and therefore they become more valuable. People wanting to gamble $X now have to buy less CLAM. Less CLAM are wagered, but your CLAM increase in value.

3. Other investors withdraw their coins and they are staked somewhere else. The effect of this is a bit better than if others investors just hold like you, as you keep getting a bigger share of the coins won from players.

4. Other investors withdraw their coins and then they are not being staked (they are hold by traders at exchanges, for example). This scenario is even better as your share of the staked coins also rises.

5. CLAM start being accepted in more places, and therefore their demand increases.

6. BTC rises. CLAM partially rises too, because of BTC owners being able to gamble more USD and because of some people wanting to diversify among different crypto currencies.

7. BTC drops. CLAM partially drops, but the amount of wagered CLAM per day increases as more need to be used to gamble the same amount of USD.

So basically, it's reasonable to expect the market cap to keep rising, instead of staying constant.

[1714120107]

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[1714120107]

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[ChrisSand]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

[Juandelacruzq]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

[investerS]

But is gambling not riskier than trading? Because it is said that there is no assurance in gambling, its just a game of luck and probability.

[ChrisSand]

But is gambling not riskier than trading? Because it is said that there is no assurance in gambling, its just a game of luck and probability.

Are you talking of investing in gambling site? Though its true it is much stable and safer to invest on casinos and other gambling sites. I think it is not profitable as trading could be, although trading is a high risk game.

[bigmaster23]

More and more ppl are now getting its attention into gambling probably the profit that could be make or any other particular reason but for me gambling need to be consistent and only lose what you could afford don't bet the amount that out of the blue.

[Juandelacruzq]

But is gambling not riskier than trading? Because it is said that there is no assurance in gambling, its just a game of luck and probability.

Are you talking of investing in gambling site? Though its true it is much stable and safer to invest on casinos and other gambling sites. I think it is not profitable as trading could be, although trading is a high risk game.

Trading could be... That's the point. Just like gambling could be more profitable (short term, in the long run you unavoidably lose). However, I don't believe much people, if any, do really have a trading strategy that gives them more than 50% annual returns per year. If my estimates are correct you can get that kind of returns by simply investing on Just Dice, without doing anything. The only risk would be Dooglus stealing the bankroll (extremely unlikely, he had the chance to steal way more money when the casino was accepting BTC). Short term you could suffer losses, but there are not that many big bets, most of the wagered amount is done in small bets.

[chris200x9]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

I think if you invest in some good coins then you may easily make that 50% profit from these altcoin investments in a year. Look at people whoever bought most of the top altcoins today one year ago then they all made more than 50% but can't tell you how it will be in next year.

Casino bankroll investments are good in the long term but there is no guaranty that you will make 50% profit in a year time. I suggest you can do both some invest in casino bankroll and some invest in good altcoins and bitcoins.

[paolo099]

i agree with Chris, why not invest in both? altcoins (the most promising ones) and some on casino.
Neither alt or casino can assure you profit but diversification would be the way to go depending on the amount of money you want to put in.
Like somebody said, trading is a zero-sum game but worse due to transfaction fees and if you set your "goal" as one year window nothing can assure you gains.

[Chandler32]

This isn't a bad way to invest your money, but just as the terms stated, risks are still involved even for investors.

[yugyug]

IMHO investing in casino is much more profitable for long term goal than investing in cryptocurrency trading. A sure 1% house edge daily profit makes you a 30% monthly profit and that is more gain than any altcoins cryptocurrency trading.For a sure win better invest them both.

[SyGambler]

just dice is one of the best gambling investments ever , but the catch is that you have to be a good trader too
clam price fluctuates a lot , two months ago it was over 0.002 BTC and now it's barely 0.0006 so you gotta know when to get in ( but that applies to every other alt like buying DOGE at over 100 sats for example )

at the moment the price is really good IMO since it can't got much down , so at this time yeah investing in Just Dice is really good IMO
so with such price and 0.1-0.15% daily , yeah I guess Just dice is one of the most profitable casinos to invest in

[covfefe_]

I have no investment experience with that particular dice site but expecting 26%+ annual would be high as you too need to consider the large wins.

[Juandelacruzq]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

I think if you invest in some good coins then you may easily make that 50% profit from these altcoin investments in a year. Look at people whoever bought most of the top altcoins today one year ago then they all made more than 50% but can't tell you how it will be in next year.

Casino bankroll investments are good in the long term but there is no guaranty that you will make 50% profit in a year time. I suggest you can do both some invest in casino bankroll and some invest in good altcoins and bitcoins.

Actually investing in CLAM would had been extremely profitable (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/clams/). Add to that staking and investing profits from being part of Just Dice bankroll and it gets even better. But I don't care about past but future returns, it's not reasonable to expect 50% annual returns from buying any crypto currency and holding it. It may happen but it's not sustainable.

[Juandelacruzq]

i agree with Chris, why not invest in both? altcoins (the most promising ones) and some on casino.
Neither alt or casino can assure you profit but diversification would be the way to go depending on the amount of money you want to put in.
Like somebody said, trading is a zero-sum game but worse due to transfaction fees and if you set your "goal" as one year window nothing can assure you gains.

I'm not putting all my money on Just Dice, that would be stupid. I'm already diversifying among many things. I'm just thinking about adding Just Dice to that list, and wanted to know if you guys could find any flaw in my reasoning. Even the super conservative estimate of market cap staying constant would mean a very high expected return.

[Juandelacruzq]

IMHO investing in casino is much more profitable for long term goal than investing in cryptocurrency trading. A sure 1% house edge daily profit makes you a 30% monthly profit and that is more gain than any altcoins cryptocurrency trading.For a sure win better invest them both.

It's not 1% daily, that kind of returns just don't exist. It's 1% of the wagered amount. Actually 0.9% because the casino charges a 10% fee.

In this case, casino profits are relatively low, what really boosts returns is that more than twice as many coins that should be staked are staked, an inflation rate is still quite high (the higher, the better, when you are staking more than you "should").

[chris200x9]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

I think if you invest in some good coins then you may easily make that 50% profit from these altcoin investments in a year. Look at people whoever bought most of the top altcoins today one year ago then they all made more than 50% but can't tell you how it will be in next year.

Casino bankroll investments are good in the long term but there is no guaranty that you will make 50% profit in a year time. I suggest you can do both some invest in casino bankroll and some invest in good altcoins and bitcoins.

Actually investing in CLAM would had been extremely profitable (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/clams/). Add to that staking and investing profits from being part of Just Dice bankroll and it gets even better. But I don't care about past but future returns, it's not reasonable to expect 50% annual returns from buying any crypto currency and holding it. It may happen but it's not sustainable.

Why do you think only CLAM can be extremely profitable and other altcoins are not that profitable?

Not only CLAM there are many coins has given superb profits in last few months. Just look at these coins like IOTA, VERGE, BURST, NEO and many other coins. I have made more than 50% profit from altcoin investments in last one year.

[omonuyak]

The high mining fees has discouraged many gamblers and investors from investing into casino and other bitcoin investment opportunities. I am advised platforms builders to start open there business to other coins in other to not allow crypto currencies investment closing as many gaming websites has stop accepting bitcoin.

[Juandelacruzq]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

I think if you invest in some good coins then you may easily make that 50% profit from these altcoin investments in a year. Look at people whoever bought most of the top altcoins today one year ago then they all made more than 50% but can't tell you how it will be in next year.

Casino bankroll investments are good in the long term but there is no guaranty that you will make 50% profit in a year time. I suggest you can do both some invest in casino bankroll and some invest in good altcoins and bitcoins.

Actually investing in CLAM would had been extremely profitable (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/clams/). Add to that staking and investing profits from being part of Just Dice bankroll and it gets even better. But I don't care about past but future returns, it's not reasonable to expect 50% annual returns from buying any crypto currency and holding it. It may happen but it's not sustainable.

Why do you think only CLAM can be extremely profitable and other altcoins are not that profitable?

Not only CLAM there are many coins has given superb profits in last few months. Just look at these coins like IOTA, VERGE, BURST, NEO and many other coins. I have made more than 50% profit from altcoin investments in last one year.

CLAM has gone from $1.67 million market cap to $23.12M in a year. Add to that what you would had made in CLAM by investing them on Just Dice. Obviously that 0.82 to 8.85 return isn't sustainable.

In my calculations I'm assuming that the market cap in USD stays stable, and that profits come from staking more than you "should" (thanks to most CLAM not being used to stake) and from gamblers's losses at the casino. If you also consider that the market cap is going to increase, then investing in Just Dice is even better.

[Juandelacruzq]

The high mining fees has discouraged many gamblers and investors from investing into casino and other bitcoin investment opportunities. I am advised platforms builders to start open there business to other coins in other to not allow crypto currencies investment closing as many gaming websites has stop accepting bitcoin.

In that sense, for gamblers (especially low rollers) using CLAM is much better than BTC. CLAM fees are basically 0, as block are nearly empty. However they may have to transfer first BTC to Poloniex, so in that case they don't save anything in fees.

[Netnox]

CLAM has gone from $0.82 to $8.85 in a year. Add to that what you would have made in CLAM by investing them on Just Dice. Obviously that 0.82 to 8.85 return isn't sustainable.

In my calculations I'm assuming that the market cap in USD stays stable, and that profits come from staking more than you "should" (thanks to most CLAM not being used to stake) and from gamblers's losses at the casino. If you also consider that the market cap is going to increase, then investing in Just Dice is even better.

The exchange rates have risen just because of the hoarding by Just-Dice. When they face a financial emergency and decides to dump the coins, the prices will crash by 90% or more. I have checked the price patterns of CLAM. And it looks like a currency for which the prices have been artificially inflated, by keeping only a limited portion in free-float.

[Juandelacruzq]

CLAM has gone from $0.82 to $8.85 in a year. Add to that what you would have made in CLAM by investing them on Just Dice. Obviously that 0.82 to 8.85 return isn't sustainable.

In my calculations I'm assuming that the market cap in USD stays stable, and that profits come from staking more than you "should" (thanks to most CLAM not being used to stake) and from gamblers's losses at the casino. If you also consider that the market cap is going to increase, then investing in Just Dice is even better.

The exchange rates have risen just because of the hoarding by Just-Dice. When they face a financial emergency and decides to dump the coins, the prices will crash by 90% or more. I have checked the price patterns of CLAM. And it looks like a currency for which the prices have been artificially inflated, by keeping only a limited portion in free-float.

And why would Just Dice investors decide to suddenly sell most of their coins? It makes no sense, especially while expected returns stay as high as I calculated (historical ones have been way higher actually).

[Erza]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

I never think that trading is much more risky than invest on casino. This is the first time I ever heard. What I know here is the opposite on what you said. Trading is much more safer than invest on gambling site because you can control your own money, meanwhile if you invest you just can hope that big whale coming and lose much to get your profit, if big whale is winning there is no way you could get any profit on it

[Juandelacruzq]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

I never think that trading is much more risky than invest on casino. This is the first time I ever heard. What I know here is the opposite on what you said. Trading is much more safer than invest on gambling site because you can control your own money, meanwhile if you invest you just can hope that big whale coming and lose much to get your profit, if big whale is winning there is no way you could get any profit on it

If you own a casino, like in this case, you want as many whales as possible and as often as possible. They may make you lose money in the short term, but in the long run they just give you 0.9% of what they bet. Without you doing anything. It's like owning an exchange, you just charge "players" for their trades. Actually most of Just Dice profits come from staking, and whales are unfortunately extremely rare, so variance is negligible.

[SyGambler]

I never think that trading is much more risky than invest on casino. This is the first time I ever heard. What I know here is the opposite on what you said. Trading is much more safer than invest on gambling site because you can control your own money, meanwhile if you invest you just can hope that big whale coming and lose much to get your profit, if big whale is winning there is no way you could get any profit on it

trading is way riskier than investing in casinos , when you invest in a casino you are +EV for sure ( mathematically ) and it's passive so you don't need to learn or do anything
trading requires skills in order to be +EV , not all traders are profitable but mathematically all casino investors are making money

the thing with JustDice is you need to know when is the good time to buy Clams , cause as I said before Clam was over 0.002 BTC like two months ago and now it's 0.00065
the current price is great to buy IMO ( anything between 0.0004-0.0007) , that's of course if you want to grow your BTC value
USD value is like always going up when it comes to crypto , so you should care about the BTC value 

[Juandelacruzq]

I never think that trading is much more risky than invest on casino. This is the first time I ever heard. What I know here is the opposite on what you said. Trading is much more safer than invest on gambling site because you can control your own money, meanwhile if you invest you just can hope that big whale coming and lose much to get your profit, if big whale is winning there is no way you could get any profit on it

trading is way riskier than investing in casinos , when you invest in a casino you are +EV for sure ( mathematically ) and it's passive so you don't need to learn or do anything
trading requires skills in order to be +EV , not all traders are profitable but mathematically all casino investors are making money

the thing with JustDice is you need to know when is the good time to buy Clams , cause as I said before Clam was over 0.002 BTC like two months ago and now it's 0.00065
the current price is great to buy IMO ( anything between 0.0004-0.0007) , that's of course if you want to grow your BTC value
USD value is like always going up when it comes to crypto , so you should care about the BTC value  

Although CLAM price is related to BTC's, I personally think of this investment as something different and just think in USD. If BTC price stayed flat, I would still assume CLAM market cap to at least be constant, which would imply getting the very high annual returns that I estimated. If you are ultra bullish on BTC and don't care about diversifying (which is stupid even if so far it has worked great if you were able to hold all the time), then buying BTC directly would make more sense.

[Juandelacruzq]

the thing with JustDice is you need to know when is the good time to buy Clams , cause as I said before Clam was over 0.002 BTC like two months ago and now it's 0.00065
the current price is great to buy IMO ( anything between 0.0004-0.0007) , that's of course if you want to grow your BTC value
USD value is like always going up when it comes to crypto , so you should care about the BTC value 

Yeah, now it should be a great moment to buy, as it's quite cheap compared to historical prices. But even if you "overpaid" a bit, it would soon be worth it because of the high expected returns from investing in the casino.

[Mike Mayor]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

It depends on how good you are at trading and he patient you are. Most people come in making big investments then losing it because they silly and they never thought it out properly. Rather make lots of small investments and secure profits in then and build your way up. Never use a large amount of your total to invest that is a mistake.

[BTCevo]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

It depends on how good you are at trading and he patient you are. Most people come in making big investments then losing it because they silly and they never thought it out properly. Rather make lots of small investments and secure profits in then and build your way up. Never use a large amount of your total to invest that is a mistake.

What are you trying to say? Is it about trading or investment? Because both of these things have very different perspective and the outcome or the risk. I am sure to put some investment on very old site and trust worthy site like just-dice will get you some quick profit but of course there is a time when some big whale hit big and most probably thing is you lose some but in the end house will win

But in trading, it really depends on your skills and how experience you are, the higher skill and experience you have then the better chance of getting good profit, it is a slow profit but of course it is constant and less risk

[chris200x9]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

"Trading" is a zero-sum game (atually worse because of fees), so it's very unlikely you have a system that makes you more than about the 50% annual returns that I estimate investing in Just Dice gives you.

Casino returns are quite stable and predictable. Especially in the case of Just Dice, because most of the profits (nearly 90%) come from staking, and the amount of staked coins is about the same every day (https://just-dice.com/misc/wagered.txt).

It depends on how good you are at trading and he patient you are. Most people come in making big investments then losing it because they silly and they never thought it out properly. Rather make lots of small investments and secure profits in then and build your way up. Never use a large amount of your total to invest that is a mistake.

If your invested in a good coin and can wait incase coin prices go down after your investment then you can mostly make money from altcoin trading or be investing based on my experience. Since we are talking about investing or making money so I would like to invest some of my money in good casino bankrolls as well because diversifying will give us better profits in the long run.

[robhimself1]

Nono stay away, the profit has been very nice on a % basis, if too many invest it'll ruin everything! 

[DARKANGEL6415]

Ok i have to day that invedting in bitcoin or ethereum casinos is a possible money maker depending what casino you invest in. At the same time like others have said if you manage to trade good then that is more profit.  I just wish some of this casinos would let anyone invest at any amount instead of large amounts.

[milewilda]

Ok i have to day that invedting in bitcoin or ethereum casinos is a possible money maker depending what casino you invest in. At the same time like others have said if you manage to trade good then that is more profit.  I just wish some of this casinos would let anyone invest at any amount instead of large amounts.

Always diversify and dont tend to go all in specially when you do seek out for more profits then investing at the same time you are doing trading too. Investing on gambling sites are for passive and then you should think for another way too like on trading. Choosing up gambling or casino sites to invest on would be crucial dont just put your money carelessly.  Always go for reputable ones that do seek out investors.

[turkeylove]

They say investing to gambling sites is much safer than doing trading. But if you really want to have control on what you will earn at the end of the day better do trading than investing to casinos.

well yeah gambling sites always bring the goods.

[WindWu]

i realized the topic is old, but thought my question is still relevant here.

wouldn't the biggest risk be the site owner (not just JD, any other such sites) running away with the money? ( or is it technically hard to do? )

[SyGambler]

i realized the topic is old, but thought my question is still relevant here.

wouldn't the biggest risk be the site owner (not just JD, any other such sites) running away with the money? ( or is it technically hard to do? )

no it's not hard to do and it did happen before , I remember DaDice which used also to take investments and there were spending a lot on signature campaigns and faucet then they scammed the money
the thing about Dadice that they weren't even one year old , while the majority of the sites here are well established and trusted

so it's a matter of trust at the end , but there is always a possibility for the owners to run away or make some claims like they were hacked

[BTCevo]

i realized the topic is old, but thought my question is still relevant here.

wouldn't the biggest risk be the site owner (not just JD, any other such sites) running away with the money? ( or is it technically hard to do? )

no it's not hard to do and it did happen before , I remember DaDice which used also to take investments and there were spending a lot on signature campaigns and faucet then they scammed the money
the thing about Dadice that they weren't even one year old , while the majority of the sites here are well established and trusted

so it's a matter of trust at the end , but there is always a possibility for the owners to run away or make some claims like they were hacked

But I never know anything about JustDice is going to scam everyone, if I not mistake there is really huge payout there when they are still on top using btc as their main coin. Buy after many of big whale start to win a lot of coin they are suddenly change to clams to play and the site is still ongoing. There is only lack of informations on what a old site should be to maintain their players to play there