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Author Topic: More cost effective to operate Antminer APW at 110V (1200W) v 220V (1600W)?  (Read 428 times)
coinnoobeeee (OP)
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December 23, 2017, 10:45:02 AM
 #1


Is that much efficiency lost when running at 110V?

Based on the advertised efficiency curve: https://shop.bitmain.com/productDetail.htm?pid=0002017112922571217282BgmYP0064D

It looks like 91% efficiency on a 40A load at 110v which operates at 1200W. If that efficiency is indeed achievable then the psu should consume:

1200W/91% = 1.3KWh

At 220V the psu runs at 1600W and advertises a 93% efficiency

1600W/93% = 1.7KWh

Over a month its a savings of 292 KWh. Over the year its 3,504 KWh!

What am I missing here? My machines running on 110V seem to achieve the advertised hash rates and Everything I have read insists on running at 220V, however it appears to be much cheaper at 110V.

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December 23, 2017, 07:52:07 PM
 #2

Interesting. Will it have negative affect on the miner?

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December 23, 2017, 08:00:52 PM
 #3

You are confusing load versus capacity.  1200 and 1600 are capacity at different input voltages to the PSU.  The load from a miner needs to be less than the capacity of the PSU or you'l be under powering the miner and it won't like it!

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December 23, 2017, 08:10:41 PM
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Yes you’re missing something. You’ve assumed the PSU always runs at max load, it doesn’t, it draws what the connected device needs.

So let’s say you have an L3+ connected to it, it’ll draw 800W regardless if the APW is connected to 110V or 220V, the difference will be that the ‘at the wall’ aka real power draw will be higher on the 110V PSU as the efficiency is lower.

So with our above example:

110v the L3+ will draw 800 * 1.09 = 872Wh.
220v the L3+ will draw 800 * 1.07 = 856Wh.

So basically you always use 2% less power with a 240v supply, in a worst case scenario (maxing out the PSU). In reality PSUs are most efficient at ~50% load, so the difference may actually be bigger than 2%, because 1600/2 puts the APW right at 50% load for an L3+ where as at 110v it’s 66% load.

It’s impossible to say exactly what the at the wall draw is without measuring it, but you get the idea. 220v is always going to make your PSU more efficient thus long term saving you power costs.
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December 23, 2017, 08:12:01 PM
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OP, you might actually want to read and study basics about electrical engineering, before coming up with theories like this.

You have understood it all wrong.

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December 23, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
 #6

Thanks for the clarification! I knew it sounded off and too good to be true.  Cheesy

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December 24, 2017, 01:20:09 AM
 #7

Thanks for the clarification! I knew it sounded off and too good to be true.  Cheesy

I did a test between 120v and 240v and found a 50w difference. On 240v, all of the APW series power supplies use only 750W for an L3+, as apposed to 800W when using 120v. Here's a link to the video that includes the test:

https://youtu.be/e07eW6-rBPI

coinnoobeeee (OP)
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December 26, 2017, 11:33:33 PM
 #8

Thank you everybody for assisting with this question as well as your patience. I only just saw the replies.

Per Bitmain's website for the psu "The APW3++ can deliver a maximum power of only 1200W if it is connected to a 110V mains power supply. To obtain the rated power of 1600W, the APW3++ must be connected to a 220-240V mains power supply. Please check the mains power supply that is the standard in your region before ordering."

Per this spec the wattage sounds like it is stepping down for 110 voltages.

Currently my machines are operating at 110V and drawing 1550W at the wall which equates to a 77% efficiency. (I believe this poor performance is due to not having enough load on the circuit but I will save theses n00b questions for a different thread)

I am seeing hashing rates consistent with the advertised spec of 13.5 T/H so im not losing anything at the lower wattage because I believe its made up by the higher amp draw.

Just wanted to make sure I have provide enough info to really confirm the answer.

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December 27, 2017, 09:49:01 PM
Last edit: December 28, 2017, 06:41:28 AM by QuintLeo
 #9

A power supply will commonly operate a little more efficiently from 234 VAC than from 117 VAC because there is less resistance loss in the input circuitry due the current being HALF as high at the higher voltage.

 Nothing complicated, just simple Ohm's Law about IIR losses.

 It's also why a lot of "server-type" power supplies have a LOWER rated power capacity at 117 VAC - the input circuitry is only designed to HANDLE a certain amount of current.

 Also, your miner is pulling more than 1200 watts out of the PS - the official spec works out to be 1230 MIN to 1353 MAX when you factor in the "+10% discrepency" part of the spec for watts draw of the miner FROM the power supply on a 13.5 TH batch miner, at 1550 wall draw that would be as high as 87% efficiency (which is in line with the efficiency curve if you are at the max specified power draw).


 The important part is YOU ARE OVERLOADING THE POWER SUPPLY by running it on 117 VAC at your stated conditions.


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December 27, 2017, 11:50:31 PM
 #10

Makes sense. Thank you
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January 01, 2018, 03:31:30 AM
 #11

another noob S9'er here, and my physics is rusty, so plz don't judge harshly for stupid qs.
I've seen a bunch of comments around saying that running S9 on a typical 110v 20a circuit is overloading it.
But shouldn't it be 110*20=2200 watts max load, *0.8 for safety = 1760w. So 1300w that S9 needs seems to be well below that, no?
Plz explain if you know. Thanks.
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January 01, 2018, 04:42:38 AM
 #12

another noob S9'er here, and my physics is rusty, so plz don't judge harshly for stupid qs.
I've seen a bunch of comments around saying that running S9 on a typical 110v 20a circuit is overloading it.
But shouldn't it be 110*20=2200 watts max load, *0.8 for safety = 1760w. So 1300w that S9 needs seems to be well below that, no?
Plz explain if you know. Thanks.

No worries, if you don't had any other loads besides the miner in that same circuit.

Make sure you have proper psu equipment when using 110V outlet.

APW3++ can only do 1200W max. when the mains voltage is 110V, ITS NOT ENOUGH FOR A S9.

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January 01, 2018, 06:43:53 AM
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another noob S9'er here, and my physics is rusty, so plz don't judge harshly for stupid qs.
I've seen a bunch of comments around saying that running S9 on a typical 110v 20a circuit is overloading it.
But shouldn't it be 110*20=2200 watts max load, *0.8 for safety = 1760w. So 1300w that S9 needs seems to be well below that, no?
Plz explain if you know. Thanks.

 The issue isn't on 20 amp circuits, the issue is the COMMON 15 amp 117 VAC circuits most US homes and small businesses have, AND that the S9 isn't actually specified for "1300 watts" but for "1323 watts with up to a +10% deviation" on the recent 13.5 TH batches so in some cases it's SPECIFIED to use 1455 watts.

 20 amp circuits on 117 VAC are NOT "typical", though they aren't rare especially in kitchen areas.
 Even 20 amp CIRCUITS will often use 15 amp OUTLETS - 20 amp outlets ARE uncommon on 117 VAC circuits except some that are intended for use with a high-capacity window air conditioner.

 15 amp circuit at a "low" 110 VAC (which is WELL within US power distribution specs) allows 12 Amps continuous operation = 1320 watts, which is marginal for a S9 that is at the BOTTOM END of the specified power usage range.

 Running a S9 on a 20 amp 117 VAC circuit isn't an issue - 16 amps at 110 would give 1760 watts which is quite a bit more than even the highest-hashrate batch is specified to pull INCLUDING the "+10% deviation" part of the spec.


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January 01, 2018, 07:49:11 AM
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another noob S9'er here, and my physics is rusty, so plz don't judge harshly for stupid qs.
I've seen a bunch of comments around saying that running S9 on a typical 110v 20a circuit is overloading it.
But shouldn't it be 110*20=2200 watts max load, *0.8 for safety = 1760w. So 1300w that S9 needs seems to be well below that, no?
Plz explain if you know. Thanks.

No worries, if you don't had any other loads besides the miner in that same circuit.

Make sure you have proper psu equipment when using 110V outlet.

APW3++ can only do 1200W max. when the mains voltage is 110V, ITS NOT ENOUGH FOR A S9.

Is that true that can’t run APW3++ on 110v? Plz other comments, cause it doesn’t make sense right now
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January 01, 2018, 11:42:25 AM
 #15

APW3++ model can run at 110V mains voltage, but the max. power capacity is then 1200W.

Period.

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January 01, 2018, 03:06:56 PM
 #16

From another thread I started...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2672623.0;topicseen

I see on the tag of my Antminer APW3++ "12" that the input can be 110 or 220 volt, however there is no selector switch.
Is there anybody that can explain the difference between?   Is my power supply able to...with the proper cord of course... be powered with either 110 or 220 volts?  

I've searched and it looks like most people just use the regular or Heavy Duty 110V "computer" style cord with (14AWG).  

There is not much info about powering these APW3++ units with a 220v cord.

Are there any people out here powering their APW3++ with a 220V supply, and if so...what cord...and does the APW3++ automatically recognize the difference if it is being powered by 110, or 220.

I DO NOT WANT TO PLUG IT IN AND HAVE IT GET TOASTED by the higher voltage. lol.


I'm going to add a few outlets, so I'm happy to do them in 220V and buy the proper cord, as long as the APW3++ is engineered to receive 110 or 220 through the same port, using a different style cord end at the wall.

Thoughts?  Thanks for any help

Andy

THIS is a product advertized on Ebay as the cord for using with 220V.  Notice the "Wall" end has terminals turned 90DEG different (US APPLICATION, not European standard). I'm in the US...and want to purchase the proper wall plug and wire my circuits to a 220V breaker in my Square D 200Amp Panel.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BITMAIN-APW3-220v-HEAVY-DUTY-Power-Cord-for-Antminer-D3-S9-or-2-L3/173056827115?epid=12007773703&hash=item284afd9eeb:g:7u8AAOSwpzJaQ1zu
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January 01, 2018, 06:21:24 PM
Last edit: January 01, 2018, 09:59:48 PM by lrowland21093
 #17

The APW3++ is able to take from 100-240V.  (Note there is a model called the APW3+ that is 220-240V only.)
Here are the detailed specs: https://shop.bitmain.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020171219130218110l3FXsmAQ0697
The cord for 110V should be a 13A capable cord - it will be specifically label as 13A. (edited to 13A - 10A is too low for 110V running S9!)
Like this: https://www.amazon.com/TRIPP-P007-003-3-Feet-14AWG-Computer/dp/B00JT0DG94
Or if you have the right outlet this: https://www.amazon.com/NEMA-5-20P-Power-Cord-Adapter/dp/B00H7I0XNC

If you use a cord that has a 220V compatible connector and plug it into a 220V outlet the power supply will deliver higher wattage a bit more efficiently.

According the the specs linked above, the most you can safely draw on 110V is 1200W - be careful if you are trying to run an S9 on this because it won't work reliably since the S9 draws between 1300-1400W.
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January 01, 2018, 09:09:24 PM
 #18

Most MODERN power supplies automatically accept input from about 100 VAC to about 240 VAC with no "switching" needed.
Only older "transformer-input" type supplies needed the switch.

 US outlets for 234VAC circuits are NORMALLY NEMA 6 series outlets (this is NOT the same as the common NEMA 5 outlet you see in most houses).
 Cords for NEMA 6 to connect to standard power supply connections tend to be less common, and more expensive, than the very common NEMA 5 cords - there are quite a few folks that sell them though, check eBay, Amazon, Newegg for them.

 The cord you have the link to IS the type you are looking for - but way expensive, and you don't really need a "heavy duty" version as you're pulling well under 10 AMPs to fully power a APW3++ at 234 volts.
 The cord shown appears to be a NEMA 6-20 (20 amp) cord, you're more likely to want to use NEMA 6-15 cords and outlest (a NEMA 6-15 plug WILL plug into a NEMA 6-20 outlet, but not the other way around - like on NEMA 5 plugs/outlets the 20 amp version has one "T" type socket connector).
 With some digging you should be able to find applicable cords in the under $10 range.



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January 02, 2018, 12:47:37 AM
 #19

Most MODERN power supplies automatically accept input from about 100 VAC to about 240 VAC with no "switching" needed.
Only older "transformer-input" type supplies needed the switch.

 US outlets for 234VAC circuits are NORMALLY NEMA 6 series outlets (this is NOT the same as the common NEMA 5 outlet you see in most houses).
 Cords for NEMA 6 to connect to standard power supply connections tend to be less common, and more expensive, than the very common NEMA 5 cords - there are quite a few folks that sell them though, check eBay, Amazon, Newegg for them.

 The cord you have the link to IS the type you are looking for - but way expensive, and you don't really need a "heavy duty" version as you're pulling well under 10 AMPs to fully power a APW3++ at 234 volts.
 The cord shown appears to be a NEMA 6-20 (20 amp) cord, you're more likely to want to use NEMA 6-15 cords and outlest (a NEMA 6-15 plug WILL plug into a NEMA 6-20 outlet, but not the other way around - like on NEMA 5 plugs/outlets the 20 amp version has one "T" type socket connector).
 With some digging you should be able to find applicable cords in the under $10 range.



Thank you both for answering.
I wired in a new 30 AMP two pole circuit, and installed a NEMA 6-15 Outlet.  Then got the proper cord cap (replacement end) and cut off the NEMA 5 end.  I replaced the NEMA 5 end (standard in US 110 systems) with the NEMA 6-15 cord cap (end) for 240V applications...did nothing to the other end where it connects to the bitmain unit. 

My new readings are as follows using a Fluke 87 Multimeter and  a Yokogawa Clamp on Amp Meter.
Original arrangement the single black power wire at the circuit panel was drawing 12.7 amps at 121Volts...which equates to a total draw of 1537 watts!!!!
New arrangement... voltage measured 242Volts.  Circuit drawing 5.7Amps,   volts x amps = Watts    242 x 5.7 =1379 Watts. 
This equates to a savings of about 158 Watts continuous.  Everything (cord cap and cord) running cooler now too.   I feel much better.   
I'm amazed it even ran,
It hashed correctly but I'm sure it's much happier now with 240Volt power

Thanks again for the help.




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