BIAA: Why we need to work together

[gnaget]

I think the Bitcoin economy would be benefited by having a smaller group of bigger miners, than the disorganized group of little miners that we see today.  Honestly, and no offense to the little miners out there, but right now the market is overly saturated because of how easy entry this is.  This price drop will go a long way to shake out the less serious miners.  A lot of people are mining with their video card on their desktop.  They are in a pool, and make less than a half a btc a day.  After the first month, they received occasional small payouts, but then they get their electric bill and there goes one of those payments.  Meanwhile, there is all the heat and noise, and well, who cares. 

The only way to make mining worth it is to go big and serious.  Building and maintaining a farm is a pain, there are a lot of hassles to take care of, so it'll be left to the several hundred most serious entrepreneur minded.  We will be the ones holding on to the bitcoins for loner periods, and thus will have the vested interest in seeing the economy grow.

Right now we are in the Gold Rush phase.  It is 1849, and everyone is digging up every area of land to look for gold.  The gold is plentiful - in fact $100,000 USD worth of it is found every day.  Next year, the reward goes down to 25 blocks, that $100,000 will turn to $50,000.  A few years after that, the $50,000 will turn into $25,000.  All the while, if we play our cards right, always growing.  That is where the money is, holding more BTC now, and selling less.  Waiting, helping the economy grow.

Think of it as the RIAA, or OPEC of Bitcoins.  It is decentralized, but that doesn't mean a group can't help it move along.  I think of the association acting as a VC firm for bitcoin centered ventures.  The ventures would not only pay for themselves, but they could be contractually required to use bitcoins offered by miners included in the association, thus always paying dividends. 

I suggest we get together, and make a democratically held pool, it can require a minimum pct donation (5% would be good).  That money isn't going to someone's pocket, it is being voted on by all members.  Information on venture requesting business would be posted to members who would vote on the business and contract.  Run correctly, it would easily pay for itself many times over by making all of our investments grow over time.

I'm about to bring up my 7th gh/s (and I still plan to aggressively build), and I would love my small part in this pool.  I'm also a developer, so I'll donate my time into building it up.  Anyone else?


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tl;dr: you won't get it anyways.

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[static]

so basically, we all work for you?

[drmoo]

LOL! GTFO.

All these groups of disorganized miners keep the network secure.

[evoorhees]

Your suggestion of smaller miners getting out of the biz will happen naturally as profitability decreases, no need to worry about that.

You seem to be further suggesting a VC group.... but why such would be tied to miners is confusing. Miners will tend to focus on being efficient miners. Investors will tend to focus on being profitable investors. There is no necessary link between the two, just like OPEC is not an investment group.

I think you're mixing initiatives that have no reason to be mixed =) But I like your spirit!

[static]

he smells like a chinese scammer, aye?

[wolftaur]

Yes, let's make an RIAA or OPEC for mining. What a wonderful idea!

Then we can do ALL the work, take ALL the risk, and give a large share of our profits away for NO fucking benefit whatsoever.

[gnaget]

Your suggestion of smaller miners getting out of the biz will happen naturally as profitability decreases, no need to worry about that.

You seem to be further suggesting a VC group.... but why such would be tied to miners is confusing. Miners will tend to focus on being efficient miners. Investors will tend to focus on being profitable investors. There is no necessary link between the two, just like OPEC is not an investment group.

I think you're mixing initiatives that have no reason to be mixed =) But I like your spirit!

I'm saying taking the reward and immediately converting it to cash is self defeating, and that is what the smaller miners do.  If the organized miners got together, then we can take the pools percentage, and turn it into a type of bitcoin bank to encourage growth of the economy, and thus the blocks we hold.  The economy isn't growing at $100,000 a day, and that is at the current crashed price.  If we organized, using a pool as a tool to enforce fairness, then we could all agree to withhold money, in exchange for a share of profits realized by the association proportional to the amount they have withheld.  That money kept in reserve being put to use for dividends really only follows.

[gnaget]

Yes, let's make an RIAA or OPEC for mining. What a wonderful idea!

Then we can do ALL the work, take ALL the risk, and give a large share of our profits away for NO fucking benefit whatsoever.

It isn't giving it away, it is using its influence not only to grow the economy of bitcoins, but also to maximize our own investments.  It doesn't hold on to profits, but pays them to the very people who contributed to the pool.

[gnaget]

Luckily for people interested in Bitcoin your OPEC idea wont work since Bitcoins are not found on sovereign land like oil is.

Miners are a virtual sovereign land.  Our farms are the source of all bitcoins. 

[gnaget]

so basically, we all work for you?

Who said anything about me?  I am not interested in running a pool, I have my own private pool.  I would be interested in putting my hashing power to a pool such as this though.  I would even like competing pools, because no one should have that much power.

[MeSarah]

There is nothing like hording btc to spure the economy. The fact is, its the smaller miners that spend much of the btc. Its the big miners that cash out to cover their huge costs. As the small miniers are pushed out there will be a negitive affect on the btc economy.

[Deimos_Anomaly]

I can see benefits of having a Bitcoin workgroup/interest group other than just the client developers.
But tieing them with miners is pointless.
Any funding would have to be by donations (which again requires trust/believe in their work)

[evoorhees]

Yes, let's make an RIAA or OPEC for mining. What a wonderful idea!

Then we can do ALL the work, take ALL the risk, and give a large share of our profits away for NO fucking benefit whatsoever.

Don't be a douche. Or, if you want to be a douche, at least satirize his idea accurately. 

[wolftaur]

Don't be a douche. Or, if you want to be a douche, at least satirize his idea accurately. 

Heh. Yeah, I was kinda in a hurry.

[gnaget]

There is nothing like hording btc to spure the economy. The fact is, its the smaller miners that spend much of the btc. Its the big miners that cash out to cover their huge costs. As the small miniers are pushed out there will be a negitive affect on the btc economy.

That is a valid argument, and there will always be smaller miners.  I do not wish to horde, but to invest in the economy of bitcoins.  The coins would be introduced to the economy through the new enterprises.  They will be spending the bitcoins for other items, thus introducing them.

[Serge]

how do you plan on "enforcing fairness" and what is unfair now?

[gnaget]

Using a pool to a percent of proceeds, and each miner gets a vote based on the amount they have donated.  1 BTC / 1 Vote.  Dividends are paid out based on how much contributed since the last dividend

[gnaget]

Using a pool to a percent of proceeds, and each miner gets a vote based on the amount they have donated.  1 BTC / 1 Vote.  Dividends are paid out based on how much contributed since the last dividend

Actually, how dividends are paid out needs to be worked on