CasinoBitco.in - Raising Bankroll for Football! [IPO] [BTC-TC] [BITFUNDER]

[ThickAsThieves]

Okay, I'm a shareholder now.

How does LabCoin intend to cater to my every need and adjust to my every whim?

[1715058216]

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[casinobitcoin]

What is your legal exposure in your home jurisdiction?  Will you cater to US customers?  What is your exposure in the US?  I represent Bitcoin businesses, but I have little experience doing casino/gambling/betting legal work.  I'd love to know more about how you plan to address (have already addressed?) the regulatory environment you're facing, because I don't know a thing about it.

Really good, and logical questions here. For starters, we are accepting US players. We recognize and understand gambling online with Bitcoin in the US is currently a gray area; however, there were laws recently passed which allow residents in select states to actually gamble online, Nevada and Delaware are two that come to my mind, but I believe there are more and I'd presume more states will be passing similar laws in due time.

To protect our exposure, we operate completely offshore. Further, we have retained legal counsel with a firm in the US that has been completely supportive of everything we have in flight. However, if we are served a cease and desist notice, we technically have 2 options: (1) Fight it or (2) Comply and shut off traffic to states which have not passed the law mentioned above. I'd rather not speculate on what option we'd pursue, as our decision would be based heavily on the circumstances at that time.

[der_meister]

I can't find the ticket nor on btct, nor on BF 

[VinceSamios]

I can't find the ticket nor on btct, nor on BF 

because this is a proposed IPO, not an IPO...

[der_meister]

Aham, thanks

[JoseRolles]

How does your house code generate randomness? No where on your site explains it. I really hope you are not using pseudorandom functions... however, I am not familiar with HTML5 to know if random is based off of some real physical phenomena.

I think visitors would feel more confident in playing in your casino games if you disclose that you are seeds are based off of random number generators that measure some sort of a physical phenomena.

For those other forum members who are not familiar with what I'm talking about: http://www.random.org/randomness/

Thanks in advance!

[casinobitcoin]

How does your house code generate randomness? No where on your site explains it. I really hope you are not using pseudorandom functions... however, I am not familiar with HTML5 to know if random is based off of some real physical phenomena.

I think visitors would feel more confident in playing in your casino games if you disclose that you are seeds are based off of random number generators that measure some sort of a physical phenomena.

For those other forum members who are not familiar with what I'm talking about: http://www.random.org/randomness/

Thanks in advance!

Great question- We actually seed our server side random number generator utilizing random.org's API; and yes - we'll be provably fair in no time. We've been focusing on that and Suicide Pool and expect both to be finished in the next week or two  

[josiasrdz]

I think it will be a good idea to add more sports (soccer,  NBA, NHL, etc.)

[burnside]

What is your legal exposure in your home jurisdiction?  Will you cater to US customers?  What is your exposure in the US?  I represent Bitcoin businesses, but I have little experience doing casino/gambling/betting legal work.  I'd love to know more about how you plan to address (have already addressed?) the regulatory environment you're facing, because I don't know a thing about it.

Really good, and logical questions here. For starters, we are accepting US players. We recognize and understand gambling online with Bitcoin in the US is currently a gray area; however, there were laws recently passed which allow residents in select states to actually gamble online, Nevada and Delaware are two that come to my mind, but I believe there are more and I'd presume more states will be passing similar laws in due time.

To protect our exposure, we operate completely offshore. Further, we have retained legal counsel with a firm in the US that has been completely supportive of everything we have in flight. However, if we are served a cease and desist notice, we technically have 2 options: (1) Fight it or (2) Comply and shut off traffic to states which have not passed the law mentioned above. I'd rather not speculate on what option we'd pursue, as our decision would be based heavily on the circumstances at that time.

Hey there, I'm in support of your IPO assuming you can pin down the Legalities.  The US gamblers is a major issue.  The feds have successfully gone after and given steep fines to major overseas poker operations.

With the two states that have approved online gambling operations, compliance requires registration in those states and that 100% of the gambling infrastructure be located in those states.  (Gambling internet traffic cannot cross state lines.)  In other words, you need to register with the state, then you need a 99.999% accurate way of figuring out what state a user is in, then you need to route them to a server that is in their state, or deny them access if they're out of state.

I hope that makes sense.  It's technically and legally challenging.  The other option, of flying under the radar as long as you can IS an option, but investors need to know what they're getting into so they're not surprised if the hammer drops after you've been successful for a while.

An IPO will need to clearly lay out these risks to investors, as well as the locations of all of the direct and indirect operations.  (majority shareholders, management, staff, servers, legal, etc.)  That way they can look up their own local laws and figure out if it's ok for them to invest and maybe do their own risk assessment.

Disclaimer, IANAL.  Just a guy who has done work for a vegas casino before.

Cheers.

[Exocyst]

It seems like you guys really just want a 500BTC line of credit but lack collateral, so the IPO option allows you to raise capital without collateral—and there's the added bonus of walking away from your obligation if it all goes pear-shaped on a 10BTC 7-team parlay. I suggest you offer a larger stake (> 30%) for the amount of risk you're asking investors to take on.

[casinobitco]

It seems like you guys really just want a 500BTC line of credit but lack collateral, so the IPO option allows you to raise capital without collateral—and there's the added bonus of walking away from your obligation if it all goes pear-shaped on a 10BTC 7-team parlay. I suggest you offer a larger stake (> 30%) for the amount of risk you're asking investors to take on.

Your feedback is taken, but it's very unfair to speculate that we would walk away from any of our commitments. I understand there is a trust issue because you don't know us, and there have been plenty of scammers in the past, but we've been a fantastic addition to the Bitcoin community and are offering our players a great gaming experience. That said, you max bets (and max "to win" amount on bets / parlays) will fluctuate based on our bankroll. Never will we exposure ourselves beyond a 1% risk of ruin. So the scenario where a customer hits a 7-team parlay will never break the house.

[Exocyst]

It seems like you guys really just want a 500BTC line of credit but lack collateral, so the IPO option allows you to raise capital without collateral—and there's the added bonus of walking away from your obligation if it all goes pear-shaped on a 10BTC 7-team parlay. I suggest you offer a larger stake (> 30%) for the amount of risk you're asking investors to take on.

Your feedback is taken, but it's very unfair to speculate that we would walk away from any of our commitments. I understand there is a trust issue because you don't know us, and there have been plenty of scammers in the past, but we've been a fantastic addition to the Bitcoin community and are offering our players a great gaming experience. That said, you max bets (and max "to win" amount on bets / parlays) will fluctuate based on our bankroll. Never will we exposure ourselves beyond a 1% risk of ruin. So the scenario where a customer hits a 7-team parlay will never break the house.

I only used the parlay as a colorful default scenario, I certainly didnt mean to imply your operation was amateurish. My point was that in a secured loan, your collateral would be liquidated in the event of a default, which could be caused by many unforeseen events unrelated to your trustworthiness—malicious theft by hackers, seizure of domain/equipment by authorities, etc. In your IPO, you are offering fractional profit-sharing as a reward to those providing the substantive bankroll—i.e. you are overvaluing your current assets. I think a variable-yield bond offering is a more appropriate fundraising tool in this instance than an overvalued security.

[casinobitcoin]

I only used the parlay as a colorful default scenario, I certainly didnt mean to imply your operation was amateurish. My point was that in a secured loan, your collateral would be liquidated in the event of a default, which could be caused by many unforeseen events unrelated to your trustworthiness—malicious theft by hackers, seizure of domain/equipment by authorities, etc. In your IPO, you are offering fractional profit-sharing as a reward to those providing the substantive bankroll—i.e. you are overvaluing you current assets. I think a variable-yield bond offering is a more appropriate fundraising tool in this instance than an overvalued security.

Thanks for the clarification Obviously we'd lower limits on such a long-shot parlay to a safe amount. Also, great point - we are certainly weighing debt/bonds as an option. However, I've not really seen many options for this in the bitcoin world, nor the demand by bond investors. It would be a nice option, though.

Both are common avenues for smaller businesses. I'm sure many organizations going for the angel/VC/IPO option, trading precious equity for funds, would rather issue debt, but cannot get enough credit or want to make the repayments at that time.

I have to disagree on offering profit-sharing being an overvaluation by default. Sure, its a higher valuation than assets alone, but intellectual property and effort put into the business carry much of the value. Not to mention, we already have a significant bankroll (assets) and positive cash flow. The value of a security, and any security taking on rounds of investment, is hopefully more than sum of it's assets - debts

[Exocyst]

Well done. I'll take a hard look at the offering if/when it comes about.

Cheers!

[BitHub]

you need to give up 70% of this company for this valuation to start making any sense.

[Zaih]

$500k...

Best of luck sir. But you should maybe bring it down a bit. This isn't like when SD IPO'd. There is so much competition along with legality issues (As we saw with SD) which make these sort of ventures not exactly long term prospects.

[Hfleer]

This looks tempting, nice graphs you got.  On the other hand, that's a good point someone made about legal risk.

[casinobitcoin]

@BitHub, I'm not sure how what % of company is sold or "floated" affects the valuation? This is simply what % the company wants/needs to sell for capital. Maybe you can clarify 

[Exocyst]

@BitHub, I'm not sure how what % of company is sold or "floated" affects the valuation? This is simply what % the company wants/needs to sell for capital. Maybe you can clarify  

How about this?
Offer shares with dividends equal to 70% of increased revenue from the day of share issuance until accumulated dividends have reached 100% ROI, then drop dividends to set a value of 10% of total revenue. Kind of like a perpetual variable rate bond which converts to a revenue share after a specific accumulation.

[casinobitco]

Folks - we are receiving interest on funding our bankroll requirements privately by swapping overall ownership of the venture. Note, we already have such partners so the legal work to do this is already completed and we can execute rather quickly.

While we haven't decided which route we will take (IPO vs Private Funding), if you are interested in funding privately please PM myself or casinobitcoin and we can share details with you.

Thanks,
Tim