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Author Topic: Who is buying above $13? Manipulation or Market?  (Read 7724 times)
5grainsilver
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July 06, 2011, 09:39:37 PM
 #41

If this was tradeable I would short below 14.50 looking for a retest of the recent 11 low.  Should break by the end of the day.  14.50 that is.
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David M
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July 06, 2011, 10:00:10 PM
 #42

What is causing the price to continue going higher after it has been hitting new lows?

New lows?  On what time-frame? Intra-hour ticks?

Or how I would like to put it, who is dumb enough to buy at $15 now, when it was just $11 yesterday, and will probably hit that again very shortly?

Thanks for the laugh.

There is a trading methodology known as "dollar cost averaging" that buys at all prices.

Previous prices are a historical curiosity.  The market is ONLY the current bid and the ask.   Out of the money bids/ask are irrelevant.*

* I do watch in amusement as large bids/asks appear and disappear.  It must be due to inexperienced traders and lack of liquidity that makes "depth" appear to be so important in the Bitcoin market.
MikesMechanix
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July 06, 2011, 10:04:12 PM
 #43

Who is dumb enough to sell at $15 when the price was over $30 not so long ago?

In theory, the current price is always correct, and it already includes the market's expectation of the future. Currently, the demand is clearly not there to drive the price up. And at the current difficulty, it'd be very profitable for miners to sell @ $5, so we are way above the minimum threshold.


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July 06, 2011, 10:05:56 PM
 #44

If this was tradeable I would short below 14.50 looking for a retest of the recent 11 low.  Should break by the end of the day.  14.50 that is.

Your ignorant wild-assed guess is as likely to be correct as any other.  I actually hope you're right as my damn Dwolla deposit hasn't dropped yet.

Gretzky said the secret to his success was not in skating to where the puck was, but to where it was going to be. Bitcoin entrepreneurs make assumptions about future demand for Bitcoins.  We communicate these assumptions in our purchase and sale decisions. When those assumtions turn out to be useful information conveyed in the form of prices, then we get paid. When we provide inaccurate information, we get penalized.

Bitcoin will become valuable because the problems are fixable and being fixed. If I waited until they were already fixed, I would have to pay more.


insert coin here:
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billyjoeallen
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July 06, 2011, 10:11:35 PM
 #45

Who is dumb enough to sell at $15 when the price was over $30 not so long ago?

In theory, the current price is always correct, and it already includes the market's expectation of the future. Currently, the demand is clearly not there to drive the price up. And at the current difficulty, it'd be very profitable for miners to sell @ $5, so we are way above the minimum threshold.

You clearly just contradicted yourself. The price wouldn't have moved up if demand wasn't there. The current price is always correct, right? Thanks for the laugh. 

insert coin here:
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Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
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MikesMechanix
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July 06, 2011, 11:05:19 PM
 #46

In theory, the current price is always correct, and it already includes the market's expectation of the future. Currently, the demand is clearly not there to drive the price up. And at the current difficulty, it'd be very profitable for miners to sell @ $5, so we are way above the minimum threshold.

You clearly just contradicted yourself. The price wouldn't have moved up if demand wasn't there. The current price is always correct, right? Thanks for the laugh.  

He was talking about $30. If the demand was there to get it to $30, it would go there. Therefore, the current price is the right price. What exactly is contradictory?

Glad I made you laugh.


Please send your extra Bitcoins to 17miTorGDBUh3yNTYJtodJPw9wzrcNcf6y. Thank you!

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5grainsilver
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July 07, 2011, 12:54:34 AM
 #47

If this was tradeable I would short below 14.50 looking for a retest of the recent 11 low.  Should break by the end of the day.  14.50 that is.

Your ignorant wild-assed guess is as likely to be correct as any other.  I actually hope you're right as my damn Dwolla deposit hasn't dropped yet.

Gretzky said the secret to his success was not in skating to where the puck was, but to where it was going to be. Bitcoin entrepreneurs make assumptions about future demand for Bitcoins.  We communicate these assumptions in our purchase and sale decisions. When those assumtions turn out to be useful information conveyed in the form of prices, then we get paid. When we provide inaccurate information, we get penalized.

Bitcoin will become valuable because the problems are fixable and being fixed. If I waited until they were already fixed, I would have to pay more.



You could very well be correct.  I hope it works out for you. 
billyjoeallen
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July 07, 2011, 03:14:54 AM
 #48

In theory, the current price is always correct, and it already includes the market's expectation of the future. Currently, the demand is clearly not there to drive the price up. And at the current difficulty, it'd be very profitable for miners to sell @ $5, so we are way above the minimum threshold.

You clearly just contradicted yourself. The price wouldn't have moved up if demand wasn't there. The current price is always correct, right? Thanks for the laugh.  

He was talking about $30. If the demand was there to get it to $30, it would go there. Therefore, the current price is the right price. What exactly is contradictory?

Glad I made you laugh.

So either bitcoins WERE 100% overpriced or they ARE 50% undervalued currently. Time will tell. 

insert coin here:
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Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
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MikesMechanix
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July 07, 2011, 03:58:26 AM
 #49

So either bitcoins WERE 100% overpriced or they ARE 50% undervalued currently. Time will tell. 

The price is currently exactly what the market thinks is the right price. It also was exactly what the market thought was the right price when it hit $30.

Please send your extra Bitcoins to 17miTorGDBUh3yNTYJtodJPw9wzrcNcf6y. Thank you!

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imperi
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July 07, 2011, 05:36:31 AM
 #50

Yes It is very interesting times, I can't help  but keep checking the price of the bitcoin. I must admit, part of me wants it to go lower because I missed the boat on this one.

billyjoeallen
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July 07, 2011, 07:15:57 AM
 #51

So either bitcoins WERE 100% overpriced or they ARE 50% undervalued currently. Time will tell. 

The price is currently exactly what the market thinks is the right price. It also was exactly what the market thought was the right price when it hit $30.

The price now is relatively unimportant. The price when I sell is very important. That won't be soon.

insert coin here:
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Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
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Gabi
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July 07, 2011, 09:52:50 AM
 #52

Quote
I do not understand all the technical aspects of it, but how long until the whole system is somehow cracked? Is this even possible? How many people would use a currency that can easily be stolen from their computer as easily as your web browser gets full of spyware.

Nice trolling  Roll Eyes
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July 07, 2011, 03:28:47 PM
 #53

The argument that government will close all exchanges and that it's the weak spot is about as credible as RIAA closing down all torrent portals and that it's the weak spot of bittorrent. Guess what? It is impossible, you close one - two new open up instead. It's a game of whack-a-mole against the whole internet. Hopeless, pointless, funny to watch. Unless you prohibit people to exchange cash in person, or close down Internet, nothing prevents new exchanges from opening up 5 minutes after you "close" them by arresting domain name or servers.

And yes, nice analysis 5grainssilver. If your predictions of the real-world markets are as solid as your predictions of immediate BTC price changes, I guess you are broke by now? Or you are just talking and not following up words with actions. That may be wise, given the lack of broad vision.

i am satoshi
MikesMechanix
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July 07, 2011, 04:13:37 PM
 #54

The price now is relatively unimportant. The price when I sell is very important. That won't be soon.

The price now is all there is. Anything else is belief.

Please send your extra Bitcoins to 17miTorGDBUh3yNTYJtodJPw9wzrcNcf6y. Thank you!

Sign up on TradeHill Instant Bitcoin Exchange using this link to get a lifetime 10 % discount on trades!
Jack of Diamonds
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July 07, 2011, 05:18:13 PM
 #55

Yes It is very interesting times, I can't help  but keep checking the price of the bitcoin. I must admit, part of me wants it to go lower because I missed the boat on this one.

I'm willing to bet that's pretty common around the forums.

Narcissism and jealousy are the modern day plague. If you can't have it then nobody should.

1f3gHNoBodYw1LLs3ndY0UanYB1tC0lnsBec4USeYoU9AREaCH34PBeGgAR67fx
Jack of Diamonds
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July 07, 2011, 05:18:51 PM
 #56

Yes It is very interesting times, I can't help  but keep checking the price of the bitcoin. I must admit, part of me wants it to go lower because I missed the boat on this one.

I'm willing to bet that's pretty common around the forums.

Narcissism and jealousy are the modern day plague. If you can't have it then nobody should.

1f3gHNoBodYw1LLs3ndY0UanYB1tC0lnsBec4USeYoU9AREaCH34PBeGgAR67fx
kiba
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July 07, 2011, 05:23:46 PM
 #57

GLBSE is not a real exchange.  There is no volume.  It is not regulated by any government organization.  My expectation of receiving payout should my contract become profitable is pretty damn low.  The site owner has a link where you can donate to him lol.  That is not a professional exchange.  What are the qualifications of the person running it?  Who is running it?  Where is it based?  On the about me page it says the following:

"We Are The Market

Buy, sell, raise, lend, borrow, invest, the single market that does it all. Keep your bitcoin in one market, and instantly switch between different assets, currencies, shares, and bonds to take advantage of the largest bitcoin market.

    * Issue shares to raise capital
    * Pay dividends to shareholders
    * Put resolutions to shareholders and get their vote
    * Issue and sell bonds
    * Borrow and lend to the market
    * Make and recieve loan repayments
    * Issue futures contracts
    * Meta-trade on non listed companies (on other exchanges)
    * And trade all of the above with other traders on the market


Start Trading Now!

The exchange is currently under testing, but is being used, you may use at your own risk but be warned,you could lose your shirt ;-)"


That says nothing, except that the person running it is building this as they go and have no idea what they are doing.  

You have not been around for very long, right? Everybody know that the GLBSE exchange is based only on 100% trust, and defer to no authorities. It's not a MtGox and TradeHill that operates under the laws of its perspective nation state. It's more like silk road than your mom and pop convenience store.

Babylon
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July 07, 2011, 07:19:38 PM
 #58

The bitcoin has consistently demonstrated that it will go lower and continue to reach new lows. Yet, it is currently trading close to $15 dollars.

Who would be buying at these prices?

What i think is either speculators are only buying to try and sell at a small spread, so they do not care what the price is, as they will sell very short term.

Manipulators are trying to maintain price and are trying to keep the price high so that they can build confidence in bitcoin and sell the majority of their bitcoins higher?

Your average investor just thinks bitcoins are worth it, and are buying them up.

I can not see the average investor buying bitcoins at this price, knowing that it will most likely continue a downward trend, and they could also wait a few days and buy low.

So what is going on? What is causing the price to continue going higher after it has been hitting new lows? Or how I would like to put it, who is dumb enough to buy at $15 now, when it was just $11 yesterday, and will probably hit that again very shortly?



new lows?  Just recently bitcoins were trading below a dollar and dollar parity was a high that many didn't foresee for a year or so.

Bitcoin has consistently risen in value, with some corrections.  It consistently falls in price only if you take a very small sample of time, starting at a point that was extremely high compared to the rest of the history of bitcoin.

5grainsilver
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July 07, 2011, 11:48:30 PM
 #59

GLBSE is not a real exchange.  There is no volume.  It is not regulated by any government organization.  My expectation of receiving payout should my contract become profitable is pretty damn low.  The site owner has a link where you can donate to him lol.  That is not a professional exchange.  What are the qualifications of the person running it?  Who is running it?  Where is it based?  On the about me page it says the following:

"We Are The Market

Buy, sell, raise, lend, borrow, invest, the single market that does it all. Keep your bitcoin in one market, and instantly switch between different assets, currencies, shares, and bonds to take advantage of the largest bitcoin market.

    * Issue shares to raise capital
    * Pay dividends to shareholders
    * Put resolutions to shareholders and get their vote
    * Issue and sell bonds
    * Borrow and lend to the market
    * Make and recieve loan repayments
    * Issue futures contracts
    * Meta-trade on non listed companies (on other exchanges)
    * And trade all of the above with other traders on the market


Start Trading Now!

The exchange is currently under testing, but is being used, you may use at your own risk but be warned,you could lose your shirt ;-)"


That says nothing, except that the person running it is building this as they go and have no idea what they are doing.  

You have not been around for very long, right? Everybody know that the GLBSE exchange is based only on 100% trust, and defer to no authorities. It's not a MtGox and TradeHill that operates under the laws of its perspective nation state. It's more like silk road than your mom and pop convenience store.

I hate to be so negative on everything, but that is pretty much the perfect enviroment for scammers. 
billyjoeallen
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July 08, 2011, 01:40:45 AM
 #60

The price now is relatively unimportant. The price when I sell is very important. That won't be soon.

The price now is all there is. Anything else is belief.

Price is whatever a willing buyer and a willing seller say it is.  If you want to buy MY BTC, you have to pay more than spot. I set the price for those particular coins.


insert coin here:
1Ctd7Na8qE7btyueEshAJF5C7ZqFWH11Wc

Open an exchange account at CampBX: options, lowest commissions, and best security
https://campbx.com/register.php?r=0Y7YxohTV0B
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