Prove Bitcoin is not a bubble

[fxbit]

think about it this way: if you could own a share of the TCP/IP protocol would you do it ?? bitcoin and all other big blockchain technologies are just that; technologies you are buying the foundation and the land where MCdonalds or Apple will build a store on.

But with a Bitcoin you do not own a share at all. You own noting

You own right to use the BTC network only when you have BTC, that allows you to transfer values across the internet and probably beyond that in future, those banks that have swift address code have right to use swift system and do transmit data on that network to transfer values (currency), we do not have swift code thus we cannot use the network and have to pay banks exorbitant amount of money to transmit our data across the swift network using their address

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[freightjoe]

think about it this way: if you could own a share of the TCP/IP protocol would you do it ?? bitcoin and all other big blockchain technologies are just that; technologies you are buying the foundation and the land where MCdonalds or Apple will build a store on.

But with a Bitcoin you do not own a share at all. You own noting

You own right to use the BTC network only when you have BTC, that allows you to transfer values across the internet and probably beyond that in future, those banks that have swift address code have right to use swift system and do transmit data on that network to transfer values (currency), we do not have swift code thus we cannot use the network and have to pay banks exorbitant amount of money to transmit our data across the swift network using their address

What a load of bullshit. I hope for your sake that you do not actually believe what you just wrote?

[cloud.runner]

You Don't Know It's A Bubble Until The Bubble Ends.

[DaedRik3]

Given these facts, you Bitcoin fans need to prove that the fundamental value is different from zero (or close to zero) - otherwise it is a by definition a bubble

No. Fundamental value of one bitcoin is equal to the cost of production of one BTC, approximately 800$ if i'm not saying bullshit.

More precisely, price depends of kWh price,
At $0.12 kWh a Bitcoin costs $1,567.88 to mine.
At $0.04 kWh a Bitcoin costs $522.62 to mine.

[fxbit]

think about it this way: if you could own a share of the TCP/IP protocol would you do it ?? bitcoin and all other big blockchain technologies are just that; technologies you are buying the foundation and the land where MCdonalds or Apple will build a store on.

But with a Bitcoin you do not own a share at all. You own noting

You own right to use the BTC network only when you have BTC, that allows you to transfer values across the internet and probably beyond that in future, those banks that have swift address code have right to use swift system and do transmit data on that network to transfer values (currency), we do not have swift code thus we cannot use the network and have to pay banks exorbitant amount of money to transmit our data across the swift network using their address

What a load of bullshit. I hope for your sake that you do not actually believe what you just wrote?

thank you for pointing that but whatever you believe in do not necessarily have any truth to it including whatever you think about what I am writing

[freightjoe]

Given these facts, you Bitcoin fans need to prove that the fundamental value is different from zero (or close to zero) - otherwise it is a by definition a bubble

No. Fundamental value of one bitcoin is equal to the cost of production of one BTC, approximately 800$ if i'm not saying bullshit.

More precisely, price depends of kWh price,
At $0.12 kWh a Bitcoin costs $1,567.88 to mine.
At $0.04 kWh a Bitcoin costs $522.62 to mine.

Cost is not the same as value. If it costs me 200$ to make a sandwich, nobody wants to pay 200$ for the sandwich

[fr4nkthetank]

Given these facts, you Bitcoin fans need to prove that the fundamental value is different from zero (or close to zero) - otherwise it is a by definition a bubble

No. Fundamental value of one bitcoin is equal to the cost of production of one BTC, approximately 800$ if i'm not saying bullshit.

More precisely, price depends of kWh price,
At $0.12 kWh a Bitcoin costs $1,567.88 to mine.
At $0.04 kWh a Bitcoin costs $522.62 to mine.

Cost is not the same as value. If it costs me 200$ to make a sandwich, nobody wants to pay 200$ for the sandwich

A bubble implies an artificial price that will deflate at some point due to market hype and hysteria.  Also fear of missing out.  Bitcoin *is* a bubble in the sense that we explode, then deflate.  Bitcoin always crashes.  Doesnt mean we wont be at 12 million per coin in 2072.

[jonruhoax]

We don't need to prove anything.
 If you don't like Bitcoin, then find another forum, but don't come crying to us when your dollars go the way of the Bolivar.

I agree with what you say, sometimes they come by saying and ask to prove. basically if the OP does not like bitcoin better still and go to buy food. all rumors about bubbles, all rumors about ponzi schemes. until now bitcoin is still a debate. the fact is you can not make bitcoin into zero value. the fact that bitcoin remains the most popular crypto and its value keeps going up.

[stryker]

Bitcoin fans keep saying "prove it is a bubble" because they do not believe it is - but this is a false question.

The real question all you bitcoin fans should be able to answer is: Prove that bitcoin is not a bubble.

A bubble is when the price of something is far higher than the fundamental value.

Bitcoin gives you ownership of nothing (a stock gives you ownership of tangible assets)
Bitcoin pays no dividend
Bitcoin gives you no right to future payments (bonds give you the right to payments)
Bitcoin gives you no patents or trademarks
Bitcoin gives you no legal rights

Given these facts, you Bitcoin fans need to prove that the fundamental value is different from zero (or close to zero) - otherwise it is a by definition a bubble

I would suggest you read a couple of books about marketing and specifically about branding. Knowing how much a strong brand can cost and what its market value depends on, you will be convinced that the fundamental price of bitcoin is different from zero.
Its just for your own personal development.

[freightjoe]

Bitcoin fans keep saying "prove it is a bubble" because they do not believe it is - but this is a false question.

The real question all you bitcoin fans should be able to answer is: Prove that bitcoin is not a bubble.

A bubble is when the price of something is far higher than the fundamental value.

Bitcoin gives you ownership of nothing (a stock gives you ownership of tangible assets)
Bitcoin pays no dividend
Bitcoin gives you no right to future payments (bonds give you the right to payments)
Bitcoin gives you no patents or trademarks
Bitcoin gives you no legal rights

Given these facts, you Bitcoin fans need to prove that the fundamental value is different from zero (or close to zero) - otherwise it is a by definition a bubble

I would suggest you read a couple of books about marketing and specifically about branding. Knowing how much a strong brand can cost and what its market value depends on, you will be convinced that the fundamental price of bitcoin is different from zero.
Its just for your own personal development.

Even the most powerful of brands deliver something of value - presently Bitcoin only delivers hype and talk

[Sundark]

I would agree with the author that bitcoin looks just like a bubble. Financial experts also say that. Bitcoin has nothing behind it. Just a huge price that depends on the demand. If all people will try to sell it at once the price will drop. 

[filharvey]

We have already seen many hatred posts about bitcoin from OP and so its quite natural for him to raise a question like this.OP asks what bitcoin has given.I would like to ask what USD has given.It is printed infinitely and sent for circulation and it is not backed by gold too.Bitcoin is not a bubble since it has not crashed as there is always a huge buy wall which usually lacks in the case of assets which were termed as bubble.

[jlanzago]

What is a tangible asset? One you can touch? What is the inherent value of gold, which is not a producing asset nor pays dividend?

The inherent value of gold is the value that people give to it. Why do people use it as a "safe heaven" when gold price is even more volatile than any blue chip stock?

Bitcoin cannot be "touched" so in that sense is not "tangible". But it is an asset, with a real world use, that can be used for instance as hedge. It does have inherent value because of it's utility, which is more that what can be said of gold or other commodities.

Whether a bubble or not, well that depends on the market. I think we are still too early in adoption phase. However I would never invest myself in only one asset, because diversification is key and you have always to control the risk of your investments.

[cris17]

Very funny question. You think BTC is a bubble? Market Cap of BTC is $253,408,802,317 ....still you think its bubble? who will invest is bubble such huge amount of money? Today crypto currencies market cap is Market Cap: $573,726,741,543 - 44.2% is BTC dominance. This fact is enough to understand it's not a bubble.

[Dapper]

Completely happy with the tangible assets (including capital to invest in other coins) purchased with bitcoin profits.   Doesn't really matter if it's a bubble or not.   The same way that it doesn't matter to all of the people who benefited from Yahoo stock going to $100+, cashed in, and eventually sunk down to something like $9.    That's the game for any investor.   You're not in it to philosophize it or debate about it.   Leave that to the teachers and professors.  

[Siopao]

There is nothing to prove to anyone about the issue of bitcoin being a 'bubble' everyone is entitle with their opinion. But as for me, bitcoin being in the cryptoworld for how any years now and.is still sustainable up to now and considering the value that continue to increase can attest ita viability. Bitcoin have helped a lot of people financially and it's not our lose if some would not believe in it.

[zimmix]

A bubble is when the price of something is far higher than the fundamental value.

First of all, consider that we are talking about to the thing that is closest to a global scale free market that the world ever had. So the bubble concept will be biased towards it, since the market will regulate itself and the fundamental (or intrinsic) value of the asset won't be fix, as it will be linked to what the market think it should be priced.

Bitcoin gives you ownership of nothing (a stock gives you ownership of tangible assets)

It does gives you ownership of your share, again, the concept of digital asset is hard to be inserted directly into the current economic market.

Bitcoin pays no dividend
Bitcoin gives you no right to future payments (bonds give you the right to payments)
Bitcoin gives you no patents or trademarks

Indeed, it's only hold and trade.

Bitcoin gives you no legal rights

Again, it's a new concept, so there is no solid laws yet, but it's just a matter of time. Regardless, a crime is a crime so ordinary laws will still try to garantee your assets, as already happened.

Given these facts, you Bitcoin fans need to prove that the fundamental value is different from zero (or close to zero) - otherwise it is a by definition a bubble

Digital asset and free market. If you try to insert both directly inside our current economic ways you will have a big problem (and that's exactly what is happening). You will need to sit and wait to see if it's truly a hype-bubble or it hold true value.

Another thing is BTC can be valued at $1kk or $1, it won't change a lot, think about it deeply: it's overseas "currency", you can hold or sell so you can use it as a long term investment or day trade (not recommended due high fees and slow transactions, but altcoins will do) and you can buy daily stuff (each day more things are available).

Considering all of this, BTC can be considered at the same level as the current monetary system, but without government, it's like having a bunch of dollars stored in your bank, but in exchange of the regulation and relative safety you have the unregulated market with the value changing based on the free market will.

[SKAHYA]

It is a definite bubble, but that does not mean you can not ride the wave and make some money out of it. Just make sure you are not one of the last ones to exit, when the reality (or the 1% that owns 90% of bitcoin supply) hits the market.

[freightjoe]

Very funny question. You think BTC is a bubble? Market Cap of BTC is $253,408,802,317 ....still you think its bubble? who will invest is bubble such huge amount of money? Today crypto currencies market cap is Market Cap: $573,726,741,543 - 44.2% is BTC dominance. This fact is enough to understand it's not a bubble.

Another post from a standard Bitcoin fan clearly demonstrating an utter lack of any economic understanding.

The size of market cap means nothing. What do you think the market cap was of the all the credit given by the banks before the financial crisis? Despite it huge size it was still a bubble. Same with the market cap of the internet companies in the late 1990s. Same with the Dutch tulips.

The complete lack of understanding of fundamentals in this forum is astounding - and constantly serves to prove exactly why it is a bubble with price purely driven by the greed of ignorant "investors"

[entropy0]

you can only prove it IS a bubble, not the other way. until it is so widely adopted - like credit cards