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Author Topic: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From “The Exodus Address”  (Read 447605 times)
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ASICSRUS
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September 24, 2013, 11:26:56 PM
 #1041

That looks beautiful Smiley

A full  MasterCoin wallet will eventually have to support display of dozens and dozens of currencies (and smart properties). Most users may not care about Test MasterCoins right now, but handling both coins is a good way to start thinking about the UI needed for all those kinds of coins.

why don't you answer me , will current "Mastercoins" aka MST get wiped out or are you planning a buyout of sorts?  Roll Eyes thank you looks like you are keeping busy here

Why would you even think that would happen?

I own Mastercoins and here we have you guys "the real Mastercoin" lol i heard about this on Let's talk bitcoins and sounds legit i'm just pointing out something i find as a major issue, apart from the concept here which i support and find interesting!=) easyyyy

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September 25, 2013, 12:47:41 AM
 #1042

I don't think the 'other' Mastercoin is of particular concern, I don't think anyone is taking it seriously - even the logo is quite literally the (no doubt copyrighted) Mastercard logo with the 'card' cut off lol

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September 25, 2013, 09:53:44 AM
 #1043

I agree that with the shutdown of BTCT it would be perfect timing for Mastercoin to come up with a smart propery feature. Share issuers are actively looking for new ways to do their business, e.g. the issuer of RSM is reaching out here on Google groups.

Also, I want to bring attention to this posting about colored coins / smart property.
The OP killerstorm about Mastercoin:
To progress faster, we need more developers.

But not just more developers, we need developers who can participate in design of protocols and architecture, who have opinion on various design considerations, and who can make decisions on their own.

Even though we do have several developers now (working in their free time, i.e. after the day job, on weekends, etc), but only I'm responsible for all planning, design architecture, etc. So it is the bottleneck: when I'm not making a progress, project isn't making a progress.

So in the light of btct.co announcement, it is a pressing issue now. It might be a good opportunity for issuers to switch to colored coins, but software isn't ready yet, and if we won't increase development speed, it will be too late.

There are many competing projects, for example, Bitshare, Freimarkets, Mastercoin.

But with colored coins we had almost-working software back in January of 2013, and design was reviewed by many people, so it might be the best thing to deploy quickly.

Also colored coins is one of few projects which allows trading in Bitcoins directly, with no reliance on 3rd parties.

The only other one I'm aware of is Mastercoin, but Mastercoin's design is often criticized as being immature.

I think that this topic should be priority #1 right now – because Mastercoin could solve a burning problem.
J.R., would it be possible to fund a special developer force to work on this?

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September 25, 2013, 12:10:42 PM
 #1044

I'm not fully understanding all the technical specs currently. But with BTC-TC who's winding down and the current developement/tools/knowledge is it possible to offer an elegant prototype solution to handle shares of an asset over the bitcoin protocol/with mastercoin protocol within a few weeks ? It's a good timing to do so I think because a lot of speculation are done also about the possible shutdown of the 2 others important securities exchanges which are Bitfunder and Havelock. And without these exchanges, a lot of people are afraid to hold only bags of non-existing shares.

With what happened to Btc-tc and the SEC inquiries, that would be a KILLER feature in a perfect timing (and very profitable).

If I got a Bitcoin for every speculation suggested....

And the Q on smart assets. Definitely demands some attention.

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September 25, 2013, 12:55:57 PM
 #1045

Dacoinmaster,

Would it be possible to create a short video (and post it on YT) that would explain in simple English what your project is about? My gut feeling is telling me it is something big, but I can't conceptualize it. Pictures would be welcome explaining how e.g. this decentralized exchange would work. Seeing a picture will help understand your project more than words. Pictures stay in brain for a longer time.

The reason I ask for this that I am neither a good speaker of English (which is a minor problem), but I am also a non-techie (which is a bigger problem).

Let me give you an example of a non-techie level: when you speak that Mastercoin protocol is a higher level protocol built upon Bitcoin protocol and you give the example of http built upon tcp/ip, then I neither have a clue of tcp/ip is nor have knowledge what http is (except for I use http everyday - but I have no clue what it is - it is too abstract).

Thanks
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September 25, 2013, 01:02:12 PM
 #1046

Dacoinmaster,

Would it be possible to create a short video (and post it on YT) that would explain in simple English what your project is about? My gut feeling is telling me it is something big, but I can't conceptualize it. Pictures would be welcome explaining how e.g. this decentralized exchange would work. Seeing a picture will help understand your project more than words. Pictures stay in brain for a longer time.

The reason I ask for this that I am neither a good speaker of English (which is a minor problem), but I am also a non-techie (which is a bigger problem).

Let me give you an example of a non-techie level: when you speak that Mastercoin protocol is a higher level protocol built upon Bitcoin protocol and you give the example of http built upon tcp/ip, then I neither have a clue of tcp/ip is nor have knowledge what http is (except for I use http everyday - but I have no clue what it is - it is too abstract).

Thanks

I already proposed this...I guess Its not the priority right now. Non techies and outsiders looking in would just have to guess what the project is about...

Nxter,Bitcoiner,Ether highlevel developer working to improve the world.
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September 25, 2013, 02:10:58 PM
 #1047

"... I don't think anyone is taking it seriously.."

cryptsy/BigVern does he added it to the exchange ~ first to file !!!=) +fwiw~>i for one am an investor in MST (Mastercoin) !!!  Grin eZ^

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September 25, 2013, 04:02:45 PM
Last edit: September 25, 2013, 04:23:15 PM by dacoinminster
 #1048

I agree that with the shutdown of BTCT it would be perfect timing for Mastercoin to come up with a smart propery feature. Share issuers are actively looking for new ways to do their business, e.g. the issuer of RSM is reaching out here on Google groups.

Also, I want to bring attention to this posting about colored coins / smart property.
The OP killerstorm about Mastercoin:
To progress faster, we need more developers.

But not just more developers, we need developers who can participate in design of protocols and architecture, who have opinion on various design considerations, and who can make decisions on their own.

Even though we do have several developers now (working in their free time, i.e. after the day job, on weekends, etc), but only I'm responsible for all planning, design architecture, etc. So it is the bottleneck: when I'm not making a progress, project isn't making a progress.

So in the light of btct.co announcement, it is a pressing issue now. It might be a good opportunity for issuers to switch to colored coins, but software isn't ready yet, and if we won't increase development speed, it will be too late.

There are many competing projects, for example, Bitshare, Freimarkets, Mastercoin.

But with colored coins we had almost-working software back in January of 2013, and design was reviewed by many people, so it might be the best thing to deploy quickly.

Also colored coins is one of few projects which allows trading in Bitcoins directly, with no reliance on 3rd parties.

The only other one I'm aware of is Mastercoin, but Mastercoin's design is often criticized as being immature.

I think that this topic should be priority #1 right now – because Mastercoin could solve a burning problem.
J.R., would it be possible to fund a special developer force to work on this?

This begs the question, isn't the intention for this project to find independent leadership? J.R., you've made it clear that Mastercoin takes a priority below many other things in your life. Shouldn't the big hustle be in finding a project manager so there can be effective structure and direction brought to the development? I realize this is partly the purpose of the coding contest, but are any other steps being taken to find talent?

I've been discussing this with the board regularly. We're not sure if we'll be able to negotiate for and find the right full-time hire, but we ARE committed to spending more project money to spur development forward at the maximum possible pace.

I expect that once the coding contest is finished on 10/15, we will immediately launch another contest. The next one will probably have a bigger prize, and will be awarded once we reach the next major project milestone rather than on a specific date. Distribution rules will be similar to the current contest (rewarding wide participation and collaboration), as that incentive structure seems to be working really well (although most contestants seem to be motivated more by working on something awesome than getting paid).

Now that we know how we will be storing data in the block chain for advanced features, the next major milestone is distributed exchange. Once we have that exchange running between bitcoin and MasterCoin, we'll have a foundation upon which to create and trade smart properties for IPOs and and other property.

I'll be handing out a LOT of money over the next few months. I'm hoping that the project milestones will fall at a rate of about one per month. You can see the list of milestones here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg2841329#msg2841329

If I'm right about one milestone per month, our community will be issuing and trading MasterCoin-derived properties like company IPOs by the end of the year. It could happen considerably sooner - it all depends on how much time our coders can commit to new feature development.

I agree that smart property has the potential to be the first "killer app" for MasterCoin, and implementing it could cause MasterCoin prices to explode upwards. Smiley

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September 25, 2013, 04:20:35 PM
 #1049

Dacoinmaster,

Would it be possible to create a short video (and post it on YT) that would explain in simple English what your project is about? My gut feeling is telling me it is something big, but I can't conceptualize it. Pictures would be welcome explaining how e.g. this decentralized exchange would work. Seeing a picture will help understand your project more than words. Pictures stay in brain for a longer time.

The reason I ask for this that I am neither a good speaker of English (which is a minor problem), but I am also a non-techie (which is a bigger problem).

Let me give you an example of a non-techie level: when you speak that Mastercoin protocol is a higher level protocol built upon Bitcoin protocol and you give the example of http built upon tcp/ip, then I neither have a clue of tcp/ip is nor have knowledge what http is (except for I use http everyday - but I have no clue what it is - it is too abstract).

Thanks

It is possible to understand the potential of this project without understanding the technology, but you DO have to have a pretty good grasp of how markets work to understand the explosive potential of MasterCoin. You also need to be able to understand the limitations of bitcoin as it is today.

Putting on my marketing hat for a moment:

Somebody with a background in trading stocks and other assets will immediately grasp how groundbreaking it is to have distributed, unregulated exchange between assets, and the ability to pseudo-anonymously (as anonymous as bitcoin can get) place bets on real-world assets. There is an UNBELIEVABLE amount of money waiting for something like this, and only ~600k MasterCoins.

If, on top of all that, the escrow-backed currencies work as I expect, the real-world applications for distributed currencies with stable values would make MasterCoins yet another order of magnitude more valuable.

The difficulty of understanding the potential of MasterCoin is not a limitation of technical understanding, but a limitation of understanding how markets work (and how freakishly big they are), and a limitation of imagination.

Our ~600k MasterCoins are worth about 12000 BTC at current prices (about $1.5M). MasterCoins don't have a huge market cap right now because there are also a lot of risks. A TON of very real risks from numerous sources (potential competitors, technical risks, security risks, etc). However, I believe we are on track so far to overcome those risks.

Can anybody else add to that marketing pitch?

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September 25, 2013, 04:55:04 PM
 #1050

Dacoinmaster,

Would it be possible to create a short video (and post it on YT) that would explain in simple English what your project is about? My gut feeling is telling me it is something big, but I can't conceptualize it. Pictures would be welcome explaining how e.g. this decentralized exchange would work. Seeing a picture will help understand your project more than words. Pictures stay in brain for a longer time.

The reason I ask for this that I am neither a good speaker of English (which is a minor problem), but I am also a non-techie (which is a bigger problem).

Let me give you an example of a non-techie level: when you speak that Mastercoin protocol is a higher level protocol built upon Bitcoin protocol and you give the example of http built upon tcp/ip, then I neither have a clue of tcp/ip is nor have knowledge what http is (except for I use http everyday - but I have no clue what it is - it is too abstract).

Thanks

It is possible to understand the potential of this project without understanding the technology, but you DO have to have a pretty good grasp of how markets work to understand the explosive potential of MasterCoin. You also need to be able to understand the limitations of bitcoin as it is today.

Putting on my marketing hat for a moment:

Somebody with a background in trading stocks and other assets will immediately grasp how groundbreaking it is to have distributed, unregulated exchange between assets, and the ability to pseudo-anonymously (as anonymous as bitcoin can get) place bets on real-world assets. There is an UNBELIEVABLE amount of money waiting for something like this, and only ~600k MasterCoins.

If, on top of all that, the escrow-backed currencies work as I expect, the real-world applications for distributed currencies with stable values would make MasterCoins yet another order of magnitude more valuable.

The difficulty of understanding the potential of MasterCoin is not a limitation of technical understanding, but a limitation of understanding how markets work (and how freakishly big they are), and a limitation of imagination.

Our ~600k MasterCoins are worth about 12000 BTC at current prices (about $1.5M). MasterCoins don't have a huge market cap right now because there are also a lot of risks. A TON of very real risks from numerous sources (potential competitors, technical risks, security risks, etc). However, I believe we are on track so far to overcome those risks.

Can anybody else add to that marketing pitch?


my team watching closely and yes WE will regulate per established pinkie/OTC standards!  Cool weeeeeeee

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September 25, 2013, 05:03:47 PM
 #1051

You guys might find this post I made in the colored coins mailing list about thin clients interesting:

Quote
I haven't been following these threads closely enough, but this one caught my eye.

Meni is absolutely correct about MasterCoin transactions - they can be created by anyone, even people who don't own MasterCoins. That's why mastercoin-explorer.com and masterchest.info both have a valid/invalid flag on every transaction. (I didn't specify that they do that - they came up with that on their own).

My expectation (mentioned on the MasterCoin project thread today) is that MasterCoin will support creating IPOs and other property, as well as the distributed trading of such property by the end of the year. It appears that we are moving toward a model where transactions are created (and value is stored) on user PCs, and the state of the network is displayed on various websites which have the whole block chain and interpret it according to MasterCoin transaction rules. This separation is needed due to the long-term inability of MasterCoin to do full-featured thin clients, which Alex has mentioned in several places. Our "thin clients" will probably follow that same model, but with tighter integration with available web services.

However, MasterCoin can never do a trust-free thin client like colored coins can. The best we can hope for is having multiple websites giving us the state of the network so we hopefully don't have to trust one website completely.

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September 25, 2013, 05:21:16 PM
 #1052

Please note: I will be completely offline (and not even reachable by phone) tomorrow through Sunday. I'm online for a few more hours today, so if you need something from me, make sure you PM me soon. Otherwise, I'll be back online Monday. I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with over the weekend!

While I'm gone, I'm relying on you guys to answer each others questions, as you have done in the past

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September 25, 2013, 06:28:10 PM
 #1053

In a conversation with the board, I was asked how companies who IPO using MasterCoin can pay dividends. My response:

Quote
You are right that many people will use the smart property to create IPOs and pay dividends. I haven't explicitly put dividends into the spec, although it would be trivial to do so. Someone owning a lot of MasterCoins could then publish a message like "I hearby pay 500 MasterCoins to be distributed to all holders of currency ID XYZ" (which could be a user issued stock). The protocol would then recognize those MasterCoins as distributed among the owners of that stock.

I'll mention this dividends idea on the project thread.

Expect to see such a "pay everyone holding currency X" message in the next rev of the spec!

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September 25, 2013, 10:21:30 PM
 #1054

Just a work-in-progress update on my (thin) Mastercoin client.

I've been working on a Mastercoin client that uses a combination of the Mastercoin ruby library and Mastercoin-explorer in order to create a thin-client implementation for Mastercoin. This means that you don't need a local synchronised Bitcoind instance in order to make Mastercoin payments. Right now this is a very centralised solution but once the Alpha version is out I will create a Mastercoin-server project that will enable users to setup their own Mastercoin servers which clients can connect to; think Electrum.
 
All the client requires is a private key of a Mastercoin address and enough Bitcoin balance to create a valid transaction. I just send my first valid multi-sig Mastercoin transaction so I figured this is as good as time as any to show some early wip screenies.




The first real transaction can be found on Mastercoin-explorer and Blockchain.info

There is still a lot of work to do but at least we are getting somewhere. I hope somebody else can send some multisig transactions soon so we can finalise the spec and start working on the next feature Smiley

This will be my last post for a while as I will be leaving the country and be without internet for a few days. See you all on monday Smiley

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September 25, 2013, 11:12:51 PM
 #1055

Just a work-in-progress update on my (thin) Mastercoin client.

I've been working on a Mastercoin client that uses a combination of the Mastercoin ruby library and Mastercoin-explorer in order to create a thin-client implementation for Mastercoin. This means that you don't need a local synchronised Bitcoind instance in order to make Mastercoin payments. Right now this is a very centralised solution but once the Alpha version is out I will create a Mastercoin-server project that will enable users to setup their own Mastercoin servers which clients can connect to; think Electrum.
 
All the client requires is a private key of a Mastercoin address and enough Bitcoin balance to create a valid transaction. I just send my first valid multi-sig Mastercoin transaction so I figured this is as good as time as any to show some early wip screenies.




The first real transaction can be found on Mastercoin-explorer and Blockchain.info

There is still a lot of work to do but at least we are getting somewhere. I hope somebody else can send some multisig transactions soon so we can finalise the spec and start working on the next feature Smiley

This will be my last post for a while as I will be leaving the country and be without internet for a few days. See you all on monday Smiley

Holy crap! Tachikoma strikes again! Shocked

Did you see the post I JUST MADE about how to do thin clients?! It's like you're reading my mind! (Are you?)

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September 25, 2013, 11:27:33 PM
 #1056

Just a work-in-progress update on my (thin) Mastercoin client.

I've been working on a Mastercoin client that uses a combination of the Mastercoin ruby library and Mastercoin-explorer in order to create a thin-client implementation for Mastercoin. This means that you don't need a local synchronised Bitcoind instance in order to make Mastercoin payments. Right now this is a very centralised solution but once the Alpha version is out I will create a Mastercoin-server project that will enable users to setup their own Mastercoin servers which clients can connect to; think Electrum.
 
All the client requires is a private key of a Mastercoin address and enough Bitcoin balance to create a valid transaction. I just send my first valid multi-sig Mastercoin transaction so I figured this is as good as time as any to show some early wip screenies.




The first real transaction can be found on Mastercoin-explorer and Blockchain.info

There is still a lot of work to do but at least we are getting somewhere. I hope somebody else can send some multisig transactions soon so we can finalise the spec and start working on the next feature Smiley

This will be my last post for a while as I will be leaving the country and be without internet for a few days. See you all on monday Smiley

Amazing job ! Congrats and keep going it like that Smiley
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September 26, 2013, 12:13:31 AM
 #1057


[...] we ARE committed to spending more project money to spur development forward at the maximum possible pace.

I expect that once the coding contest is finished on 10/15, we will immediately launch another contest.

The next one will probably have a bigger prize [...]

1. You are putting TBF developers to shame. Last time they released a client with new features was in May (4 months ago) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=219504.msg2311420#msg2311420 And the most appreciated feature in that release was the new icon and splash screen for Bitcoin-Qt  Undecided
What a joke Bitcoin development has become!

2. I get the impression you guys at Mastercoin project are focusing on important features and functionalities that not only make a difference but also are much needed by the users of your system.

3. Keep on!
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September 26, 2013, 12:48:29 AM
Last edit: September 26, 2013, 01:10:04 AM by Loozik
 #1058

It is possible to understand the potential of this project without understanding the technology, but you DO have to have a pretty good grasp of how markets work to understand the explosive potential of MasterCoin.

My gut feeling is that the potential is huge.


You also need to be able to understand the limitations of bitcoin as it is today.

I made several attempts to read the Bitcoin protocol and most important articles on Btcoinwiki but failed rather miserably in understand it (due to being a non-techie), so limitations of Bitcoin remain a mystery for me. And I don't care - it is just an instrument I trade.


Somebody with a background in trading stocks and other assets will immediately grasp how groundbreaking it is to have distributed, unregulated exchange between assets, and the ability to pseudo-anonymously (as anonymous as bitcoin can get) place bets on real-world assets.

I have the background - no problem here. I have some questions:
- in fiat world you have (i) exchanges that do some job and (ii) brokers that do some jobs; will this decentralized exchange perform the job of both an exchange (e.g. matching orders) and a broker (e.g. managing sub-accounts through Percent Allocation Management Module)?; do you have a specification of this decentralised exchange?
- will event-based data feed be stamped in seconds or nanoseconds or microseconds?
- how will the data feed be distributed to end-users?
- what types of orders will be supported? At the moment you can't put a stone age stop loss or a trailing stop at any of the exchanges, MtGox inclusive, which is a joke.
- will open interest on derivatives be reported daily (as is the case in all American exchanges) or will it be reported in ticks (as is the case with some European exchanges)?
- many more questions that a short video would easily explain ...  Wink


There is an UNBELIEVABLE amount of money waiting for something like this, and only ~600k MasterCoins [...]
Our ~600k MasterCoins are worth about 12000 BTC at current prices (about $1.5M). MasterCoins don't have a huge market cap right now because there are also a lot of risks.

How many of the 600k Mastercoins have already been mined? Are they mined the way BTC is mined or they created in some other way? Where can one buy these Mastercoins? How was the valuation: 600k Mastercoins = 12k BTC arrived at?
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September 26, 2013, 12:59:23 AM
 #1059

1. You are putting TBF developers to shame. Last time they released a client with new features was in May (4 months ago) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=219504.msg2311420#msg2311420 And the most appreciated feature in that release was the new icon and splash screen for Bitcoin-Qt  Undecided
What a joke Bitcoin development has become!

No. That's totally unfair and unwarranted.

The payment request changes are imminent and these will take Bitcoin to the next level:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=300809.0;topicseen

A lot of merchants want this - and what's the major difference in success between Bitcoin and the 100-odd alt-coins? Apart from LTC no merchants accept the alt-coins.

While the Mastercoin progress is impressive it is only one area activity.

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September 26, 2013, 01:00:00 AM
 #1060


[...] we ARE committed to spending more project money to spur development forward at the maximum possible pace.

I expect that once the coding contest is finished on 10/15, we will immediately launch another contest.

The next one will probably have a bigger prize [...]

1. You are putting TBF developers to shame. Last time they released a client with new features was in May (4 months ago) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=219504.msg2311420#msg2311420 And the most appreciated feature in that release was the new icon and splash screen for Bitcoin-Qt  Undecided
What a joke Bitcoin development has become!

2. I get the impression you guys at Mastercoin project are focusing on important features and functionalities that not only make a difference but also are much needed by the users of your system.

3. Keep on!


Holy Crap! I used to expect a client in roughly about 6 months. JR said that not possible.
With the recent turbulence in BTC securities Exchange. I can see the potential of MSC is huge.

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