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Author Topic: Mining the new pool!  (Read 7134 times)
xDragonZ
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July 12, 2011, 10:33:24 AM
 #41

nice ! joined.. do you mind explain to me what is a block ?

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somebadger
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July 12, 2011, 11:22:14 AM
 #42

nice ! joined.. do you mind explain to me what is a block ?

A block is what we are trying to solve by mining, when the pool solves a block we get paid the 50 BTC + fees associated to that block (stuff all at the moment Smiley) Once the block is solved the pool gets the 50BTC and its divided amongst the members based on how much they helped during that round. every miner has the same chance of finding a block for the pool and when someone finds one we give them a bonus 2 BTC and the team leader for that person 2 BTC

so in essence we are running a 4 BTC lottery every time the pool gets paid.

so get mining and your in with a chance, or bring other miners to the pool and your also in the running Wink

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ManOfKnight
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July 12, 2011, 11:31:50 AM
 #43

@SomeBadger

Widgets is a buddy that I invited before teams were introduced to the pool...how do I go about inviting him to my team if he joined before the teams were introduced?

Striking it rich in Bitcoin is no longer an option...I do it for fun.
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July 12, 2011, 11:36:02 AM
 #44

@SomeBadger

Widgets is a buddy that I invited before teams were introduced to the pool...how do I go about inviting him to my team if he joined before the teams were introduced?

You simply tell me here Wink




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ManOfKnight
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July 12, 2011, 11:45:41 AM
 #45

You are too fast SomeBadger.

LOL.


Love the site btw...best mining site I have seen.  Especially when we find a block and the stats will be accurate.

Striking it rich in Bitcoin is no longer an option...I do it for fun.
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rnd0000
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July 12, 2011, 01:26:37 PM
 #46

One question. Its said the pool has anti-hopping measures. What does it really mean and how it can be even applied to the pool, when estimated time to fin the block is half a month? Its quite obvious when the pool makes like 3 blocks a day or more, but half a month...

What I have read of the pool-hopping is that people try to maximize their earning by switching (at some moment, which can be calculated) to the pool, which just starts a new block.

What concerns me is that it could be unfair, eg if one stops contributing to the pool, say, one day before the block is found and thus is seen as hopper. There could be technical faults or other factors which cause to switch mining software off.

Could you please explain what are the rules? Thanks!

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somebadger
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July 13, 2011, 02:07:56 AM
 #47

You are too fast SomeBadger.

LOL.


Love the site btw...best mining site I have seen.  Especially when we find a block and the stats will be accurate.

Yeah i cant wait Smiley

One question. Its said the pool has anti-hopping measures. What does it really mean and how it can be even applied to the pool, when estimated time to fin the block is half a month? Its quite obvious when the pool makes like 3 blocks a day or more, but half a month...

What I have read of the pool-hopping is that people try to maximize their earning by switching (at some moment, which can be calculated) to the pool, which just starts a new block.

What concerns me is that it could be unfair, eg if one stops contributing to the pool, say, one day before the block is found and thus is seen as hopper. There could be technical faults or other factors which cause to switch mining software off.

Could you please explain what are the rules? Thanks!

hmm.. look at it this way

lets assume for ease that it takes on average 1000 shares to solve a block

with a normal setup where users are paid based on the amount of shares,
mr pool hopper jumps in at the start of the block and submits 100 shares and leaves

so his return would be 10% (5 BTC) if the block was solved at the average rate of 1000 shares

BUT if the block is solved early then he would get a lot more, say its solved in 500 shares, then he gets 10 BTC

with anti cheating, shares towards the end of the block are worth more so in the same instance,

if the block is solved in 1000 shares the people who mined the whole block would get more for their loyalty to the pool.
Mr Poolhopper would get less for leaving early and not getting the higher value final shares and the same goes for short blocks.

he would still be paid more on a short block but not as much as the people hanging around for the whole time.

so as for your question of what happens if you fall off b4 the block is found, you will still be paid, just not as much as if you stuck with it. if you were there right before the block was solved and then fell off not far from the end your diference would not be that much.

its more to stop people jumping in, doing a few shares at the start of the block and running away.

nb. this is a basic explanation and the algorithm is a bit more intense but i hope you understand.


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linkme
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July 13, 2011, 02:25:58 AM
 #48

You are too fast SomeBadger.

LOL.


Love the site btw...best mining site I have seen.  Especially when we find a block and the stats will be accurate.

Yeah i cant wait Smiley

One question. Its said the pool has anti-hopping measures. What does it really mean and how it can be even applied to the pool, when estimated time to fin the block is half a month? Its quite obvious when the pool makes like 3 blocks a day or more, but half a month...

What I have read of the pool-hopping is that people try to maximize their earning by switching (at some moment, which can be calculated) to the pool, which just starts a new block.

What concerns me is that it could be unfair, eg if one stops contributing to the pool, say, one day before the block is found and thus is seen as hopper. There could be technical faults or other factors which cause to switch mining software off.

Could you please explain what are the rules? Thanks!

hmm.. look at it this way

lets assume for ease that it takes on average 1000 shares to solve a block

with a normal setup where users are paid based on the amount of shares,
mr pool hopper jumps in at the start of the block and submits 100 shares and leaves

so his return would be 10% (5 BTC) if the block was solved at the average rate of 1000 shares

BUT if the block is solved early then he would get a lot more, say its solved in 500 shares, then he gets 10 BTC

with anti cheating, shares towards the end of the block are worth more so in the same instance,

if the block is solved in 1000 shares the people who mined the whole block would get more for their loyalty to the pool.
Mr Poolhopper would get less for leaving early and not getting the higher value final shares and the same goes for short blocks.

he would still be paid more on a short block but not as much as the people hanging around for the whole time.

so as for your question of what happens if you fall off b4 the block is found, you will still be paid, just not as much as if you stuck with it. if you were there right before the block was solved and then fell off not far from the end your diference would not be that much.

its more to stop people jumping in, doing a few shares at the start of the block and running away.

nb. this is a basic explanation and the algorithm is a bit more intense but i hope you understand.



nice explanation badger Smiley

i just got 2 more 5870's to throw into the frey Smiley will get those going this weekend since i gota make some modifications to my main mining rig to shoe horn em in there

you should setup somewhere that we can put our minging rigs.. maybe some kind of web album we can all use ? once i made my new case will be fun to show off my 7 card miner Tongue esp once i replace the remaining 5770's in it

Tips in moon or sun Smiley
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somebadger
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July 13, 2011, 11:29:27 AM
 #49

@linkme cant wait for that extra hashing power, looks like you lost your top spot on the hash leader boards Tongue your 2 new 5820's should give u another 900 MH or so, that will get you back on top heh

also we peaked @ 9gh earlier today, come on people lets get it really moving Smiley

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rnd0000
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July 13, 2011, 11:54:38 AM
 #50

Thanks for explaining pool-hopping rules, SomeBadger! BTW.

@linkme cant wait for that extra hashing power, looks like you lost your top spot on the hash leader boards Tongue your 2 new 5820's should give u another 900 MH or so, that will get you back on top heh

also we peaked @ 9gh earlier today, come on people lets get it really moving Smiley

I am usually looking at another figure on the page: Est. Time To Find Block   236 Hours 1 Minutes
at the moment. Used to be about 500 hours... It's a pity I cant add more power.

Probably, you can soon charge non-members 0.01 BTC for looking at pool.betcoin.co/stats.php and team thingie
and bring in more revenue by organizing totalizator ;-)

If you do like my ideas: 1JTGkHyjftsbect7S2PCghYr7Tuyqf4rF5
If you don't: 1BHaMrxrKzVfWTxHBYFuXKezxkF1FQcg3x
badfrog
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July 13, 2011, 12:32:46 PM
 #51

Im into it. Lets see how it works !

Leading the Hashrate at 2nd Place Grin

Greetings, Frog
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July 13, 2011, 12:48:41 PM
 #52

Thanks for explaining pool-hopping rules, SomeBadger! BTW.

@linkme cant wait for that extra hashing power, looks like you lost your top spot on the hash leader boards Tongue your 2 new 5820's should give u another 900 MH or so, that will get you back on top heh

also we peaked @ 9gh earlier today, come on people lets get it really moving Smiley

I am usually looking at another figure on the page: Est. Time To Find Block   236 Hours 1 Minutes
at the moment. Used to be about 500 hours... It's a pity I cant add more power.

Probably, you can soon charge non-members 0.01 BTC for looking at pool.betcoin.co/stats.php and team thingie
and bring in more revenue by organizing totalizator ;-)

organizing totalizator ? what do you mean ?

At my time of reading this the site has 12 workers at 7.9Ghz. If i put in 400Mhz I could get about 2 bitcoins per 50 split... Im in

Welcome aboard, and if you refer others or find a block your up for doubling or tripling those 2 btc Wink

Im into it. Lets see how it works !

Leading the Hashrate at 2nd Place Grin

Greetings, Frog

Welcome and good to see another power miner in the pool, we all thank you Smiley



Any suggestions for features or anything you guys would like added to the site, fire away.
Our mission is to make a great pool for our members.

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rnd0000
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July 13, 2011, 04:22:19 PM
 #53

Thanks for explaining pool-hopping rules, SomeBadger! BTW.

@linkme cant wait for that extra hashing power, looks like you lost your top spot on the hash leader boards Tongue your 2 new 5820's should give u another 900 MH or so, that will get you back on top heh

also we peaked @ 9gh earlier today, come on people lets get it really moving Smiley

I am usually looking at another figure on the page: Est. Time To Find Block   236 Hours 1 Minutes
at the moment. Used to be about 500 hours... It's a pity I cant add more power.

Probably, you can soon charge non-members 0.01 BTC for looking at pool.betcoin.co/stats.php and team thingie
and bring in more revenue by organizing totalizator ;-)

organizing totalizator ? what do you mean ?


That was a joke. I mean, observers can record their bets (who wins the "race", when the block will be found, etc, etc.)
Administrative fee goes to the pool/totalizator owner, for example.

Thus, the dull process of mining for coins can be turned into more fun. The costly process of buying new equipment from doomed investment  Wink goes into buying a horse for racing category.

And betcoin name suits it perfectly well. (I am not sure about legal side though as I have no idea under whose jurisdiction you are...)

The idea is very raw. For example, its not easy to prevent some shadow agreements. Say, two leading horse owners can bet on the third and, surprise, give way to it, etc. But surely some kind of interesting and fair competitions can be designed.

If you do like my ideas: 1JTGkHyjftsbect7S2PCghYr7Tuyqf4rF5
If you don't: 1BHaMrxrKzVfWTxHBYFuXKezxkF1FQcg3x
somebadger
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July 14, 2011, 03:13:40 AM
 #54

Thanks for explaining pool-hopping rules, SomeBadger! BTW.

@linkme cant wait for that extra hashing power, looks like you lost your top spot on the hash leader boards Tongue your 2 new 5820's should give u another 900 MH or so, that will get you back on top heh

also we peaked @ 9gh earlier today, come on people lets get it really moving Smiley

I am usually looking at another figure on the page: Est. Time To Find Block   236 Hours 1 Minutes
at the moment. Used to be about 500 hours... It's a pity I cant add more power.

Probably, you can soon charge non-members 0.01 BTC for looking at pool.betcoin.co/stats.php and team thingie
and bring in more revenue by organizing totalizator ;-)

organizing totalizator ? what do you mean ?


That was a joke. I mean, observers can record their bets (who wins the "race", when the block will be found, etc, etc.)
Administrative fee goes to the pool/totalizator owner, for example.

Thus, the dull process of mining for coins can be turned into more fun. The costly process of buying new equipment from doomed investment  Wink goes into buying a horse for racing category.

And betcoin name suits it perfectly well. (I am not sure about legal side though as I have no idea under whose jurisdiction you are...)

The idea is very raw. For example, its not easy to prevent some shadow agreements. Say, two leading horse owners can bet on the third and, surprise, give way to it, etc. But surely some kind of interesting and fair competitions can be designed.

I love the idea, now we need to work out a way where u can bet on the hash rates that isnt prone to cheating too much Wink


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rnd0000
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July 14, 2011, 07:19:20 AM
 #55

Ah... I am out of the game till (hopefully) later today (seems like switch faulted, nobody to bring it back). That is exactly what I feared.
If its not just power cycle, will have 0 MH/s till Monday  Undecided

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somebadger
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July 14, 2011, 10:39:37 AM
 #56

Ah... I am out of the game till (hopefully) later today (seems like switch faulted, nobody to bring it back). That is exactly what I feared.
If its not just power cycle, will have 0 MH/s till Monday  Undecided

thans ban news man, gl in getting the power restored

re the race been having a bit of a think, we could do it say every 10 blocks (not ones we solve just blocks in general)
for example from block 136220 to 136230.

here is my idea for the rules:

the top 10 people who submitted shares in the previous 10 blocks would be in the running
the person who submitted the most valid shares (from the previous group) would be the winner and and so on for 2nd and 3rd place
members bet on who ever they like to win
all bets are added to a pool
that pool is split 60,30,10 ? for 1st 2nd 3rd
and is then split between the people who chose the 1st 2nd 3rd ?
i guess that splitting only works if everyone bets the same amount, unless u have a better idea ?
to maintain transparency we would show all bets as they stand

any ideas, suggestions send em over Smiley this is by no means final in any way, just a bit of an idea i had.
the main drawback with this system is that it would have to be a fixed bet, and there could be cheating by simply making more accounts. That could be overcome by only allowing members with X shares bet ?

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rnd0000
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July 14, 2011, 11:57:03 AM
 #57


re the race been having a bit of a think, we could do it say every 10 blocks (not ones we solve just blocks in general)
for example from block 136220 to 136230.


Hmmm... It's roughly one hour, right?


here is my idea for the rules:

the top 10 people who submitted shares in the previous 10 blocks would be in the running
the person who submitted the most valid shares (from the previous group) would be the winner and and so on for 2nd and 3rd place
members bet on who ever they like to win
all bets are added to a pool
that pool is split 60,30,10 ? for 1st 2nd 3rd
and is then split between the people who chose the 1st 2nd 3rd ?
i guess that splitting only works if everyone bets the same amount, unless u have a better idea ?
to maintain transparency we would show all bets as they stand

any ideas, suggestions send em over Smiley this is by no means final in any way, just a bit of an idea i had.
the main drawback with this system is that it would have to be a fixed bet, and there could be cheating by simply making more accounts. That could be overcome by only allowing members with X shares bet ?

Totalizator works alittle bit differently. It works on the principle of who provides the best information about the future events is the winner.
For example, now we have: linkme, somebadger, dtmcnamara as the leaders. The majority will bet on those, individual stakes and number of losers does not matter, the sum matters, for example, 1BTC. And two bets with 0.2BTC that linkme, dtmcnamara, somebadger will be the leaders. (there could be many outcomes. You can bet on whoever). If the outcome "linkme, dtmcnamara, somebadger" gets realized, the sum 1.2BTC minus admin fee (say, 10%) will be distributed among those two who guessed correctly.

It means, each winner of the bet will get 1.2 * 0.8 / 2 = 0.48 BTC.

However, as I said before, the results can be easily manipulated. And my point is that probably betting on hashrates and such is not
quite ok. All of us have limited has generating capabilities, which can't be changed quickly.

I think, the important thing is to set the objective of the competition.

If the goal is to increase total hashrate, then the competition should be strictly for the top N players. And they have all the fun.

If the goal is to have something special and more fun for larger crowd, then totalizator idea (as described above) is very good. Bets could be done on anything, even on the number of total pool shares generated during last 10 blocks modulo 10 (which is pure lottery) or top leaders (which is less lottery, more brains required, but can be manipulated), etc, etc.

And have I understood right, that the bets are done in the shares submitted during the round and they can be reshuffled then?
Or will the game require bitcoins from outside?

Say, linkme bets 187000 shares and looses ;-)  Weird...

Probably, more thinking is needed.

If you do like my ideas: 1JTGkHyjftsbect7S2PCghYr7Tuyqf4rF5
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somebadger
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July 14, 2011, 12:07:27 PM
 #58


re the race been having a bit of a think, we could do it say every 10 blocks (not ones we solve just blocks in general)
for example from block 136220 to 136230.


Hmmm... It's roughly one hour, right?


here is my idea for the rules:

the top 10 people who submitted shares in the previous 10 blocks would be in the running
the person who submitted the most valid shares (from the previous group) would be the winner and and so on for 2nd and 3rd place
members bet on who ever they like to win
all bets are added to a pool
that pool is split 60,30,10 ? for 1st 2nd 3rd
and is then split between the people who chose the 1st 2nd 3rd ?
i guess that splitting only works if everyone bets the same amount, unless u have a better idea ?
to maintain transparency we would show all bets as they stand

any ideas, suggestions send em over Smiley this is by no means final in any way, just a bit of an idea i had.
the main drawback with this system is that it would have to be a fixed bet, and there could be cheating by simply making more accounts. That could be overcome by only allowing members with X shares bet ?

Totalizator works alittle bit differently. It works on the principle of who provides the best information about the future events is the winner.
For example, now we have: linkme, somebadger, dtmcnamara as the leaders. The majority will bet on those, individual stakes and number of losers does not matter, the sum matters, for example, 1BTC. And two bets with 0.2BTC that linkme, dtmcnamara, somebadger will be the leaders. (there could be many outcomes. You can bet on whoever). If the outcome "linkme, dtmcnamara, somebadger" gets realized, the sum 1.2BTC minus admin fee (say, 10%) will be distributed among those two who guessed correctly.

It means, each winner of the bet will get 1.2 * 0.8 / 2 = 0.48 BTC.

However, as I said before, the results can be easily manipulated. And my point is that probably betting on hashrates and such is not
quite ok. All of us have limited has generating capabilities, which can't be changed quickly.

I think, the important thing is to set the objective of the competition.

If the goal is to increase total hashrate, then the competition should be strictly for the top N players. And they have all the fun.

If the goal is to have something special and more fun for larger crowd, then totalizator idea (as described above) is very good. Bets could be done on anything, even on the number of total pool shares generated during last 10 blocks modulo 10 (which is pure lottery) or top leaders (which is less lottery, more brains required, but can be manipulated), etc, etc.

And have I understood right, that the bets are done in the shares submitted during the round and they can be reshuffled then?
Or will the game require bitcoins from outside?

Say, linkme bets 187000 shares and looses ;-)  Weird...

Probably, more thinking is needed.


thats actually something i didnt think of, having the users bet with the valid shares they have submitted is a great idea, its a good way of stopping people signing up lots of times just to bet.

the example of 10 blocks was just an example, i think we should use enough blocks so that everyone has a chance to bet, maybe even 200 blocks. also to stop cheating (since u could wait until the micro second that the final block is found and get the data direct from the bitcoin client and try to beat the update) we would stop bets X blocks before the end.

but pretty much no matter what your betting on your best opportunity is to wait until the last second to bet to give u a better idea as to the outcome, so this need more thinking, we need something where someone betting towards the start is not at a major disadvantage imho.

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July 14, 2011, 12:37:25 PM
 #59

I'm trying this pool right now and referring some friends that could bring a lot of well-needed power to the pool.

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July 14, 2011, 12:54:29 PM
 #60

I'm trying this pool right now and referring some friends that could bring a lot of well-needed power to the pool.

great to have you onboard Smiley

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