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Author Topic: [ATTN!!] Bitcoin Security nearly Breached  (Read 6015 times)
imanikin
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July 08, 2011, 07:37:16 PM
 #41


Try clicking on the image for your "proof." Until then, you are on very shaky ground.

My point was that, as we have seen before, one person's parasite botnet is another person's "business partner."  Wink

Even IF it turns out that Deepbit doesn't have such "business partners", it's unethical for Deepbit and its workers to take even close to 50%.

That makes a joke of the already obvious fairytale of "decentralized Bitcoin," in which the system can be disrupted by attacking or subverting just one mining pool...  Cheesy

What also then becomes obvious is that - just as it is for the Wall-Street bankers - for Deepbit and its workers it's not really about the health of the monetary system as a whole. "It's all about me and getting mine"...

In the immortal words of one proud miner:
... I am here simply to mine bitcoin and make a profit.  I don't really care if bitcoin fails. ...

That makes all of the Bitcoin ground pretty damn shaky... Cheesy

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July 08, 2011, 10:03:08 PM
 #42

So you are not going to retract your accusation regarding Deepbit accepting botnets?

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July 08, 2011, 11:09:05 PM
 #43


In the immortal words of one proud miner:
... I am here simply to mine bitcoin and make a profit.  I don't really care if bitcoin fails. ...

That makes all of the Bitcoin ground pretty damn shaky... Cheesy


And you're interested in Bitcoin to what, buy rainbows and gumdrops for all the third world children?

Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful.

-Warren Buffett
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July 08, 2011, 11:19:41 PM
 #44

How do we send people back to the newbie board? Posting this kind of repetitive alarmist BS should be automatic timeout to the newbie board for a month.

And when will SMF give filtering options so that you can hide all threads not started by 'x' level poster...

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July 09, 2011, 12:46:58 AM
 #45

How do we send people back to the newbie board? Posting this kind of repetitive alarmist BS should be automatic timeout to the newbie board for a month.

And when will SMF give filtering options so that you can hide all threads not started by 'x' level poster...

Come on man, that's not fair to the newbies! They need to be put in isolation. Maybe time to institue the mod that blocks trolls from posting in threads but still shows their posts in the threads. After 2 or 3 usernames they might get bored and go away or actually become contributory to the forums.

Not just threads started, filter any posts at all by a user configured post number.

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imanikin
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July 09, 2011, 08:48:54 AM
 #46

So you are not going to retract your accusation regarding Deepbit accepting botnets?

It's not an accusation; it's a simple hypothesis, given the way some of the biggest business is traditionally done in Russia. Wink

Since Deepbit's terms and technology can be duplicated by any other pool, its persistently incongruous size is suspicious. It will be useful when someone with credible skills and network position figures out the botnet share of that. Deepbit plantation helpers are not a credible source of such info to me...  Cheesy

What is pretty clear to me is that an entity or a group that doesn't have the ethics or greed limit to stop itself from grabbing 40-50% of the worldwide supply of something, would not be above tolerating a friendly botnet to help it continue to do so... Wink


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July 09, 2011, 11:32:48 AM
 #47

So you are not going to retract your accusation regarding Deepbit accepting botnets?

It's not an accusation; it's a simple hypothesis, given the way some of the biggest business is traditionally done in Russia. Wink

Since Deepbit's terms and technology can be duplicated by any other pool, its persistently incongruous size is suspicious. It will be useful when someone with credible skills and network position figures out the botnet share of that. Deepbit plantation helpers are not a credible source of such info to me...  Cheesy

What is pretty clear to me is that an entity or a group that doesn't have the ethics or greed limit to stop itself from grabbing 40-50% of the worldwide supply of something, would not be above tolerating a friendly botnet to help it continue to do so... Wink



It's purely a hypothesis, but he'll follow it with plenty of accusations. Love it.

Let's See:
Security Troll: Check
Paranoid/Conspiracy Troll: Double Check

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imanikin
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July 09, 2011, 01:32:43 PM
 #48

It's purely a hypothesis, but he'll follow it with plenty of accusations. Love it.

Let's See:
Security Troll: Check
Paranoid/Conspiracy Troll: Double Check

You have a right to your delusions, just as i have a right to mine...   Smiley

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July 09, 2011, 06:47:03 PM
 #49

So you are not going to retract your accusation regarding Deepbit accepting botnets?

It's not an accusation; it's a simple hypothesis, given the way some of the biggest business is traditionally done in Russia. Wink

Since Deepbit's terms and technology can be duplicated by any other pool, its persistently incongruous size is suspicious. It will be useful when someone with credible skills and network position figures out the botnet share of that. Deepbit plantation helpers are not a credible source of such info to me...  Cheesy

What is pretty clear to me is that an entity or a group that doesn't have the ethics or greed limit to stop itself from grabbing 40-50% of the worldwide supply of something, would not be above tolerating a friendly botnet to help it continue to do so... Wink

There's another way to get big, and that is by providing a great service and making your customers very happy. Since you're new here, you should look at Deepbit's history; this is mostly what Deepbit has done.

I don't know what "Deepbit's plantation helpers" means.

As for me, I stopped mining at Deepbit after he gave an answer I didn't like about having 50% of the network. Maybe I'll start again after he has less percentage of the network. Maybe I won't.

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imanikin
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July 09, 2011, 08:23:50 PM
 #50

There's another way to get big, and that is by providing a great service and making your customers very happy. Since you're new here, you should look at Deepbit's history; this is mostly what Deepbit has done.

If you do some research regarding my registration date, you'll see that you are the new one here...  Smiley

I was already here before there was such a thing as Deepbit or Tycho, even Slush wasn't open yet, and i could mine with a 5450...  Cheesy

So, there is little point in my reading the history that i watched happen real-time...  Wink

It was already clear then that the exceptionally greedy farmers, such as ArtForz, were about to force everyone else to pool, which would create vulnerable centers in the "totally decentralized Bitcoin" still being falsely advertised today...  Cheesy

Then, there would be greedy pool operators, such as Tycho. In a few years, they will consolidate, and become the central bankers of Bitcoin, if it survives that long.  Undecided

Then, we'll be back to the same thing we have today with fiat bankers - a few influential central bankers of Bitcoin dictating to the rest of us how much share of the market they will have, and how much in fees we'll have to pay them...

How great that revolutionary new system will be!  Then, i will also not care if "Bitcoin fails"... Cheesy

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July 09, 2011, 08:37:48 PM
 #51

So there is/was a discussion if deepbit allows botnets ? Or was this the first time anyone mentioned this idea.

Very interesting, I need to look more into this. 
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July 09, 2011, 09:05:18 PM
 #52

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There are nearly 50% of pool miners there for one reason - they like DeepBit better than the others.

A number of issues I've encountered on other pools, just kept pushing me back to deepbit. For some reason Deepbit just works (except during a Ddos). Other pools need to get their act together and compete better.

Quote
Now tell me, when you're already making $52,000.00 a month, or $623k a year conservatively, why are you going to muck around?

I'd think so too, at least regarding all the mucking around that has been mentioned in this thread, double spending etc... no-one in their right mind is going to risk a $50,000 per month income that's still growing to rip people off once with some double spending or sh*t like that.

No, it seems to me the risk is in the pool doing something that will benefit itself AND its miners and being able to pull that off alone. The most obvious thing would be to increase (let's say double) the mining reward (or refuse to lower it to 25 BTC by the end of next year). Not only would that double the pool owner's income (in BTC terms), it would also double what the miners earn, and would more likely attract more miners.

If other pools didn't follow suit, they'd find all their blocks invalidated and end up earning nothing. Pressure to follow such a move would therefor be enormous.

This would all be at the expense of those holding BTC, in exactly the same fashion as a central bank that prints more money.

The only miners opposed to such a change would be those already holding lots of BTC.

Or have I overlooked something that makes this scenario impossible?
imanikin
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July 09, 2011, 09:48:35 PM
 #53

So there is/was a discussion if deepbit allows botnets ? Or was this the first time anyone mentioned this idea.

Very interesting, I need to look more into this. 


Worse than that: there was a discussion regarding the major pools forming a cartel to collude against the rest of the network...

If you think Tycho, Slush and the like are of such pristine moral fiber that they would never "muck around" with that to satisfy their unlimited personal greed, i have a forest of Bitcoin trees near Moscow to sell you...  Cheesy Cheesy

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July 10, 2011, 12:06:28 AM
 #54

No, it seems to me the risk is in the pool doing something that will benefit itself AND its miners and being able to pull that off alone. The most obvious thing would be to increase (let's say double) the mining reward (or refuse to lower it to 25 BTC by the end of next year). Not only would that double the pool owner's income (in BTC terms), it would also double what the miners earn, and would more likely attract more miners.

Well if this is your scenario then why wouldn't they just decide to make the reward 10k per block as of today? Yes they could fork the chain but those blocks would not get accepted by the rest of the bitcoinDs. So you mine BTC' that will not comply to BTC. Guess that's a stupid plan. Exchanges and honest users would not accept those.

Better they start a new chain then ...

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