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Author Topic: What's up with arbitrage  (Read 1302 times)
gidaahmad
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December 30, 2017, 11:14:19 PM
 #21

Sometimes I also do Arbitration between Exchangers, to cover small losses and also to get a little profit. I rarely do Artbitrage because of the distance of time of delivery that sometimes annoys me and finally loses the moment to sell my coins at the highest price.

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December 30, 2017, 11:53:10 PM
 #22

Has anyone in been observing this craze lately? Basically certain exchanges will have consistent price differences with other major ones. I'm not talking Bitfinex, which is probably done for, but pretty much all else known to be reliable exchanges.

I'm wondering, isn't there any pressure to close such gaps in the price? it's really a good chance for traders to profit with arbitrage but I really can't fathom how those gaps remain open for hours.

Due to the crazy prices with all alts and even bitcoins, there has been a lot of arbitrage opportunity. This is a normal effect of the price volatility of everything in crypto. The best thing is to take the opportunity yourself. It's hard to do but it is possible to profit big time on arbitrage opportunities. Also you have to have some btc in a lot of exchanges and you have to transfer what you bought from one exchange to the other fairly quick also considering the cost of moving alts as it could eat up profits.
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December 31, 2017, 12:12:52 AM
 #23

Has anybody tried intra-site arbitrage, i.e. finding triangles (e.g. BTC->ETH->IOTA->BTC) that give you small gains without the need to transfer funds between exchanges? I guess on Bitfinex those inefficiencies are closed immediately but I'm wondering whether there are reasonable opportunities on sites with smaller volumes.
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December 31, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
 #24

Has anybody tried intra-site arbitrage, i.e. finding triangles (e.g. BTC->ETH->IOTA->BTC) that give you small gains without the need to transfer funds between exchanges? I guess on Bitfinex those inefficiencies are closed immediately but I'm wondering whether there are reasonable opportunities on sites with smaller volumes.
Yes, it's been tried but there are bots that do this much more efficiently than any human would. Those gaps close withing a matter of fractions of a second due to bots having direct access to trades with APIs. It's a matter of speed and its an arms race for very small profit, while still bearing risk.



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December 31, 2017, 03:49:40 PM
 #25

Has anybody tried intra-site arbitrage, i.e. finding triangles (e.g. BTC->ETH->IOTA->BTC) that give you small gains without the need to transfer funds between exchanges? I guess on Bitfinex those inefficiencies are closed immediately but I'm wondering whether there are reasonable opportunities on sites with smaller volumes.

If you buy BTC->ETH->IOTA->BTC again in an exchange, that's called trading not arbitrage anymore as arbitrage is the simultaneous buying and selling of securities, currency, or commodities in different markets or in derivative forms in order to take advantage of differing prices for the same asset.
Yes, it's profitable even though you trade on an exchange with smaller trading volume, most people do the same thing, some makes profits while others not so lucky.
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December 31, 2017, 06:06:32 PM
 #26

Has anybody tried intra-site arbitrage, i.e. finding triangles (e.g. BTC->ETH->IOTA->BTC) that give you small gains without the need to transfer funds between exchanges? I guess on Bitfinex those inefficiencies are closed immediately but I'm wondering whether there are reasonable opportunities on sites with smaller volumes.

If you buy BTC->ETH->IOTA->BTC again in an exchange, that's called trading not arbitrage anymore as arbitrage is the simultaneous buying and selling of securities, currency, or commodities in different markets or in derivative forms in order to take advantage of differing prices for the same asset.
Yes, it's profitable even though you trade on an exchange with smaller trading volume, most people do the same thing, some makes profits while others not so lucky.

If you start from BTC and end up with BTC it is trading. If you hold BTC, ETH and IOTA and perform 3 trades at the same time it's intra-exchange arbitrage. I also think it does not make sense to try it by hand, I'd be curious how efficient the bots are, if it's actually a fraction of a second or rather a few seconds. I assumed that inter-exchange arbitrage is also dominated by bots but I might be wrong. Is anybody here doing it by hand regularly?
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December 31, 2017, 06:26:20 PM
 #27

Has anybody tried intra-site arbitrage, i.e. finding triangles (e.g. BTC->ETH->IOTA->BTC) that give you small gains without the need to transfer funds between exchanges? I guess on Bitfinex those inefficiencies are closed immediately but I'm wondering whether there are reasonable opportunities on sites with smaller volumes.

If you buy BTC->ETH->IOTA->BTC again in an exchange, that's called trading not arbitrage anymore as arbitrage is the simultaneous buying and selling of securities, currency, or commodities in different markets or in derivative forms in order to take advantage of differing prices for the same asset.
Yes, it's profitable even though you trade on an exchange with smaller trading volume, most people do the same thing, some makes profits while others not so lucky.

If you start from BTC and end up with BTC it is trading. If you hold BTC, ETH and IOTA and perform 3 trades at the same time it's intra-exchange arbitrage. I also think it does not make sense to try it by hand, I'd be curious how efficient the bots are, if it's actually a fraction of a second or rather a few seconds. I assumed that inter-exchange arbitrage is also dominated by bots but I might be wrong. Is anybody here doing it by hand regularly?

I did it by hand several times. But only when the conditions were so favorable that it was worth the risk.
Otherwise, this is something that is best left to bots. Market can change in seconds and then you can end up with a bunch of unwanted coins. Wink


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December 31, 2017, 08:47:17 PM
 #28

There is price difference last time of close to 1000 usd on bittrex and gdax/coinbase.  However someone said thats because of the tether rate.  So that means this cannot be done then right/


What exchanges can you really arbitrage on?  Those that only do usdt?  Thus an exchange that does usd and one that does usdt and do not allow usd withdraws won't work?
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December 31, 2017, 09:34:41 PM
 #29

There are bots on the internet about arbitrage, but be careful about which ones you are going to download, most of them are containing trojans, cryptominers or just shit in there that will make your computer slow.

Do the arbitrage by yourself, it is not difficult to do so.

Try to be careful about it, of course, because if you make a bad movement you can easily lose everything in just a single trade.

I'm wondering, isn't there any pressure to close such gaps in the price? it's really a good chance for traders to profit with arbitrage but I really can't fathom how those gaps remain open for hours.

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December 31, 2017, 09:37:04 PM
 #30

It's only good until the damn wallet from exchanges gets disabled  Grin Grin Grin

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December 31, 2017, 10:06:57 PM
 #31

It's only good until the damn wallet from exchanges gets disabled  Grin Grin Grin

That's probably a sign that you should stop trading shitcoins. I remember how I have made the same mistake back in 2014. I bought coins from Mintpal to sell them on Crypto at a near 30% higher price. It were instant profits, or at least, that's what I thought. Turns out, that shitcoin had its wallet disabled at Cryptsy, where I had to sell the coins over at Mintpal to get my initial investment back. I "only" suffered a loss of nearly 10% due to the lack of actual buy support. That was my first and directly last encounter with arbitrage trading concerning altcoins. Either just stick with Bitcoin, or else the top altcoins in the market.
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January 01, 2018, 11:50:39 AM
 #32

my arbitrage method,

I've partner that live in US and can buy LTC in their exchange, I live in asia where all coin is overprice. I buy LTC from my partner +5% fee, he sent me ltc, I sell it on my exchange +10%.
Compound it.
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January 01, 2018, 12:23:02 PM
 #33

Has anyone in been observing this craze lately? Basically certain exchanges will have consistent price differences with other major ones. I'm not talking Bitfinex, which is probably done for, but pretty much all else known to be reliable exchanges.

I'm wondering, isn't there any pressure to close such gaps in the price? it's really a good chance for traders to profit with arbitrage but I really can't fathom how those gaps remain open for hours.
Arbitrage requires a lot of experience and experience. You have to compete over time and take action within seconds. A friend was making money with arbitrage and losing 7.5 Bitcoin because of the rush, because the wrong address transferred. For this reason it is a very difficult business.



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January 01, 2018, 07:57:00 PM
 #34

Has anyone in been observing this craze lately? Basically certain exchanges will have consistent price differences with other major ones. I'm not talking Bitfinex, which is probably done for, but pretty much all else known to be reliable exchanges.

I'm wondering, isn't there any pressure to close such gaps in the price? it's really a good chance for traders to profit with arbitrage but I really can't fathom how those gaps remain open for hours.

Yes, bitcoin used to be a good coin for arbitraging and I used to do a lot earlier. However, I have stopped arbitraging using bitcoin because of the slow network and high transaction fees. The slower network will make you loose the opportunity and the higher fees will eat up your profits. So bitcoin is not anymore suitable for arbitraging.

Instead, I will recommend you to use ETH for the same purpose. ETH transactions are superfast and cheaper. So you can move funds from one exchange to another very easily. I am using ETH for the arbitrage trades and it's worth it. Even though ETH price doesn't have much differences in various exchanges, but if you invest a good amount of money, the return will be great.

   
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January 01, 2018, 09:46:38 PM
 #35

I am not sure what other ways there would be to actually perform this in order to profit, but wouldn't doing arb with existing balances on exchanges work in a similar fashion than waiting for the funds to be deposited?
If you do not want to risk losing the price when doing Arbitrage, better do not do it. Because I also did it and did not make a profit because of the long delivery time that made me angry. But I should be grateful, because the benefits I get more than the losses that I received.

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January 01, 2018, 10:08:24 PM
 #36

Sometimes I make arbitrage with low value (less than 100k $) ethereum tokens; but only with small amounts. There is no gurantee that you sell them with profit. I don't like daily trading but I often see arbitrage opportunities between ether tokens. You may watch for them.
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January 01, 2018, 11:39:01 PM
 #37

The withdrawal price of btc is another factor of arbitrage.  This discourage investors to do arbitrage. You need a huge amount of btc to feel the profit from arbitrage.

Has anyone in been observing this craze lately? Basically certain exchanges will have consistent price differences with other major ones. I'm not talking Bitfinex, which is probably done for, but pretty much all else known to be reliable exchanges.

I'm wondering, isn't there any pressure to close such gaps in the price? it's really a good chance for traders to profit with arbitrage but I really can't fathom how those gaps remain open for hours.


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January 22, 2018, 02:37:05 AM
 #38

Cryptocurrencies arbitrage isn't profitable anymore, unless you know how to program  and trade with extremely low latency bots that can outperform the domestic bots working on the exchanges servers(certainly not the junk sold in the retail); and even then it requires a 24/7 monitoring of the activity and constant adjustements of strategies and updates by developers as it a highly competitive business in a perpetual race.

The manual cross arbitrage ship has already sailed months / years ago, as the market as grown increasingly competitive and aggressive

I'd like also to emphasize that it is very easy to get badly burnt trying to do this kind of operation without extensive experience. The market is totally unregulated and full of traps settup for the newbies trying to catch price differences. And i've seen many getting badly screwed and go home totally broke. Transfers getting lost, withdrawals stuck for weeks while the currency plunges, deposits not showing up for days, currencies flash crashing, dead pools traps, exchange shutting down,  exchange scams, etc etc..

I think it is unethical to lure people with irrealistic expectations when considering arbitrage and to not warn them about the extreme danger on the long run of trying this. There is no such thing as free lunch in the markets; price differences always have reasons, which mean that 99,9% are untradable because either the exchange is shutdown, nodes are under maintenance, withdrawals are suspended, exchange is a scam, or because the volatility is temporarily extreme and that it is nearly suicidal to even try it

You'd better educate yourself and try your luck with mid-long term trading strategies which have been yielding solid returns until now, rather than trying this near zero profit business only accessible to the most advanced and well funded traders
You could just have bought ETH and hold for the past months and made 30x what you have done doing crappy amateur arbitrage
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January 22, 2018, 02:47:42 AM
 #39

Has anyone in been observing this craze lately? Basically certain exchanges will have consistent price differences with other major ones. I'm not talking Bitfinex, which is probably done for, but pretty much all else known to be reliable exchanges.

I'm wondering, isn't there any pressure to close such gaps in the price? it's really a good chance for traders to profit with arbitrage but I really can't fathom how those gaps remain open for hours.

I did observe that there are many arbitrage opportunities and I do believe that many have benefited from it but then people are somewhat reluctant to do it because there are times when orders would not be executed because of some problems and in case of some huge arbitrage opportunties, most likely the exchange would deactivate the wallet of that certain coin so that traders would not be able to benefit from it. There are some cases then that an arbitrage would be successful but when one arbitrage goes wrong, the one who is doing it would be reluctant to do it again especially if it involves a large amount.

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January 22, 2018, 03:27:34 AM
 #40

I am not sure what other ways there would be to actually perform this in order to profit, but wouldn't doing arb with existing balances on exchanges work in a similar fashion than waiting for the funds to be deposited?

Exactly. All the posts here are commenting about transferring deposits to different exchanges. That's not how to do arb, and of course you'll lose money like that. You should have balances in all pairs on all exchanges you intend to arbitrage with beforehand, and then do the arbitration at the exact same time (buy order on one exchange, sell order on the other with no delay). The only time you'd then transfer between the exchanges is much later when funds from one pairing have depleted, or you want to cash out a little.

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