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Author Topic: Gold has security issues too  (Read 3658 times)
cypherdoc
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July 07, 2011, 04:18:06 AM
 #21

I would rather have encrypted the wallet with GNU PG and stored it in paper or optical disk.


please elaborate.

Sure.

Regarding GNU PG, a quote from it's official site: "GnuPG is the GNU project's complete and free implementation of the OpenPGP standard as defined by RFC4880" (Links added). You can use GNU PG to encrypt the wallet. I suggest diceware for the password. You can dump the encrypted file to a CD or paper with PaperBack or similar.  If you opt for this, remember to make sure the wallet don't gets into hard disk. There is no need to use a Live CD, if you use GNU/Linux (I suggest you do) just create a new user with the proper umask and /home in a tmpfs mount.

The point is to avoid banks or any other third party. Free feel to ask if you need more information in some point.


i certainly respect your opinion on this and you're not the only one who feels this is the way to go.  but why is it better than using an encrypted IronKey with LiveCD?
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CurbsideProphet
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July 07, 2011, 04:24:18 AM
 #22

%
as a gold/silver bug since 2005, i have finally sold off 98% of my bullion holdings and moved it into bitcoin.

I hope your bullion was only a small percentage of your investment portfolio.  If not putting 98% into anything, let alone something in its infancy, is a major gamble.  I hope you don't have any dependents.  The last thing I would want to see is someone getting wiped out so I wish you the best of luck but yikes....

i said 98% OF MY BULLION.

Which is why I said I hope your bullion is only a small percent of your total portfolio......

I'm assuming by your reply it is. 

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MoonShadow
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July 07, 2011, 04:24:30 AM
 #23

I would rather have encrypted the wallet with GNU PG and stored it in paper or optical disk.


please elaborate.

Sure.

Regarding GNU PG, a quote from it's official site: "GnuPG is the GNU project's complete and free implementation of the OpenPGP standard as defined by RFC4880" (Links added). You can use GNU PG to encrypt the wallet. I suggest diceware for the password. You can dump the encrypted file to a CD or paper with PaperBack or similar.  If you opt for this, remember to make sure the wallet don't gets into hard disk. There is no need to use a Live CD, if you use GNU/Linux (I suggest you do) just create a new user with the proper umask and /home in a tmpfs mount.

The point is to avoid banks or any other third party. Free feel to ask if you need more information in some point.


i certainly respect your opinion on this and you're not the only one who feels this is the way to go.  but why is it better than using an encrypted IronKey with LiveCD?

Perhaps it's not, but archival storage of paper, under the right conditions, is known to have an indefinate lifespan.  This is not known to be true with regard to solid state digital storage (as in the ironkey) and is already known to not be true with regard to optical disks.


"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
MikesMechanix
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July 07, 2011, 04:27:30 AM
 #24

when leaving on vacations with my family like we will be doing for a week this coming Friday, i would always worry in the back of my mind that my house might get burglarized.

Well, now you'll be checking Mt.Gox every 5 minutes to see if Satoshi decided to dump all his coins at once. Good luck.  Grin

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cypherdoc
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July 07, 2011, 04:27:30 AM
 #25

I would rather have encrypted the wallet with GNU PG and stored it in paper or optical disk.


please elaborate.

Sure.

Regarding GNU PG, a quote from it's official site: "GnuPG is the GNU project's complete and free implementation of the OpenPGP standard as defined by RFC4880" (Links added). You can use GNU PG to encrypt the wallet. I suggest diceware for the password. You can dump the encrypted file to a CD or paper with PaperBack or similar.  If you opt for this, remember to make sure the wallet don't gets into hard disk. There is no need to use a Live CD, if you use GNU/Linux (I suggest you do) just create a new user with the proper umask and /home in a tmpfs mount.

The point is to avoid banks or any other third party. Free feel to ask if you need more information in some point.


i certainly respect your opinion on this and you're not the only one who feels this is the way to go.  but why is it better than using an encrypted IronKey with LiveCD?

Perhaps it's not, but archival storage of paper, under the right conditions, is known to have an indefinate lifespan.  This is not known to be true with regard to solid state digital storage (as in the ironkey) and is already known to not be true with regard to optical disks.



is there a known "average lifespan" of solid state digital storage media?
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July 07, 2011, 04:31:50 AM
 #26

In 5,000 year, I expect gold will be a by-product of our cold-fusion reactors. There'll be more of it than we know what to do with. There will be landfills full of the stuff.

Gold is currently being produced as a by-product of nuclear fission, albeit in a tiny ratio, along with more expensive elements. However I don't know if it's profitable for reprocessing facilities to extract it from used fuel or whether they're actually extracting the expensive elements other than 137Cs. You might want to research further, it's interesting.

P.S: Simplicity and/or standardization and the key for information preservation along lifetimes. It's clear to see paper backup archives both. If I were to use paper backup I would store it together with a written english and spanish (My native languaje) description of it's format and the decodification process.

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cypherdoc
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July 07, 2011, 04:33:10 AM
 #27

when leaving on vacations with my family like we will be doing for a week this coming Friday, i would always worry in the back of my mind that my house might get burglarized.

Well, now you'll be checking Mt.Gox every 5 minutes to see if Satoshi decided to dump all his coins at once. Good luck.  Grin

granted i'm a speculator.  i've had a multi-fold return on the PM's and i just happen to think they're topping.  could be wrong.  but btc fits my criteria for a stable, usable, modern era currency that has lots of room to grow.  the merchant growth is exciting and those 2 Android apps that just came out have convinced me to sell the last remaining stores of my bullion.

the offline wallet though has REALLY relieved alot of the anxiety over btc security. 

i'm not worried about the price of btc as i think the price is just getting started...
cypherdoc
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July 07, 2011, 04:36:03 AM
 #28

when leaving on vacations with my family like we will be doing for a week this coming Friday, i would always worry in the back of my mind that my house might get burglarized.

Well, now you'll be checking Mt.Gox every 5 minutes to see if Satoshi decided to dump all his coins at once. Good luck.  Grin

as in now i check the Comex?
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July 07, 2011, 04:44:38 AM
 #29

is there a known "average lifespan" of solid state digital storage media?

Maybe, but it means nothing because different products will have different characteristics.

Non standard formats are a major problem for long term data storage. You can see this happen with the formats of the most popular word processor of a couple of years ago. Files in plain text, HTML, gzip, bzip2 are as readable now as they were when they were written. Be sure to use a simple format for your wallet and bundle it's specification together unless you plan to update it with every format change of your favorite Bitcoin implementation. That's my advice.

Regards.

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Jaime Frontero
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July 07, 2011, 04:59:10 AM
 #30

I really dont see BTC being around in 5,000-10,000-25,000-2 million years.  Do you?

Gold will be laying or being worn somewhere.

I'm not sure I even believe humans will be around 2 million years from now. All that matters to me is the next 20-50 years. This guy isn't trying to pass on the wealth to his descendants 5,000 years in the future.

In 5,000 year, I expect gold will be a by-product of our cold-fusion reactors. There'll be more of it than we know what to do with. There will be landfills full of the stuff.

If gold has any value in the distant future, it will be manufactured. Completely silly to think gold is a good store of value for the next 25,000-2,000,000 years.

agreed - except i think you're an optimist.  i give gold and silver less than 100 years as a store of wealth.  nope, there's no long-term future in gold.

hell, there's roughly 25 tons of the stuff in every cubic mile of seawater (concentration varies by location), and almost twice that of silver; according to the USGS:

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/whyoceansalty.html

humans have always been pretty good at extracting things from other things - and sooner or later, seawater will be cracked as well.  there's been folks working on it for quite a while.  sooner or later...
DamienBlack
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July 07, 2011, 05:04:31 AM
 #31

agreed - except i think you're an optimist.  i give gold and silver less than 100 years as a store of wealth.  nope, there's no long-term future in gold.

hell, there's roughly 25 tons of the stuff in every cubic mile of seawater (concentration varies by location), and almost twice that of silver; according to the USGS:

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/whyoceansalty.html

humans have always been pretty good at extracting things from other things - and sooner or later, seawater will be cracked as well.  there's been folks working on it for quite a while.  sooner or later...

Well then, all we need is a big water magnet. I'm going to be rich, lol. Very good points, in a cage match between bitcoins and gold for the long term... I don't know, hard to call. If bitcoins are still around in 2 year, I know who I believe would win. It just needs to make it through these first few years.

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Jaime Frontero
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July 07, 2011, 05:06:49 AM
 #32

is there a known "average lifespan" of solid state digital storage media?

Maybe, but it means nothing because different products will have different characteristics.

Non standard formats are a major problem for long term data storage. You can see this happen with the formats of the most popular word processor of a couple of years ago. Files in plain text, HTML, gzip, bzip2 are as readable now as they were when they were written. Be sure to use a simple format for your wallet and bundle it's specification together unless you plan to update it with every format change of your favorite Bitcoin implementation. That's my advice.

Regards.


as i pointed out on an old thread, once - the longest term storage medium we have yet devised is the LP vinyl record.  not counting chiseled rock, of course.  you can get a custom LP cut (the actual machinery is fairly expensive) by a service, for about 50 USD.

the trick is to get digital information onto and off of an analog medium without any degradation at all.  those USB record-players look interesting, don't they?
cypherdoc
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July 07, 2011, 05:10:31 AM
 #33

you can get a custom LP cut (the actual machinery is fairly expensive) by a service, for about 50 USD.

how many private keys can you get on one? Wink
Jaime Frontero
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July 07, 2011, 05:13:14 AM
 #34

you can get a custom LP cut (the actual machinery is fairly expensive) by a service, for about 50 USD.

how many private keys can you get on one? Wink

i dunno.  it would depend on how much redundancy you felt was adequate.

an LP holds as much music as a CD though - right?  so a few hundred meg, less the data cost of analog>digital translation.
cypherdoc
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July 07, 2011, 05:29:15 AM
 #35

you can get a custom LP cut (the actual machinery is fairly expensive) by a service, for about 50 USD.

how many private keys can you get on one? Wink

i dunno.  it would depend on how much redundancy you felt was adequate.

an LP holds as much music as a CD though - right?  so a few hundred meg, less the data cost of analog>digital translation.

maybe you ought to start a btc storage service  Smiley
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July 07, 2011, 05:43:46 AM
 #36

you can get a custom LP cut (the actual machinery is fairly expensive) by a service, for about 50 USD.

how many private keys can you get on one? Wink

i dunno.  it would depend on how much redundancy you felt was adequate.

an LP holds as much music as a CD though - right?  so a few hundred meg, less the data cost of analog>digital translation.

maybe you ought to start a btc storage service  Smiley

i thought of doing that.  just too many irons in the fire right now.

the idea is free to whoever wants it...
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July 07, 2011, 06:58:10 AM
 #37

you can get a custom LP cut (the actual machinery is fairly expensive) by a service, for about 50 USD.

how many private keys can you get on one? Wink

i dunno.  it would depend on how much redundancy you felt was adequate.

an LP holds as much music as a CD though - right?  so a few hundred meg, less the data cost of analog>digital translation.
It's analog, there is 0 bytes on it.

edit:
and it would be much cheaper to store everything on paper and scan it instead, MUCH cheaper.
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July 07, 2011, 07:14:15 AM
 #38

you can get a custom LP cut (the actual machinery is fairly expensive) by a service, for about 50 USD.

how many private keys can you get on one? Wink

i dunno.  it would depend on how much redundancy you felt was adequate.

an LP holds as much music as a CD though - right?  so a few hundred meg, less the data cost of analog>digital translation.
It's analog, there is 0 bytes on it.

edit:
and it would be much cheaper to store everything on paper and scan it instead, MUCH cheaper.

yes, it's analog and has 0 bytes - but an analog signal which is designed to be converted to digital can carry information.  as i pointed out - USB turntables are interesting, and do precisely that.  the trick is to design a way to convert a digital piece of information to an analog signal that can easily be converted back.  i've imagined playing a Word Doc using one's favorite CD player...
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July 07, 2011, 07:23:04 AM
 #39

I really dont see BTC being around in 5,000-10,000-25,000-2 million years.  Do you?

Gold will be laying ,or being worn, somewhere.
Now that's long term investing Smiley


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July 07, 2011, 08:25:54 AM
 #40

at one time i had a stash stored at Credit Suisse in Switzerland but got spooked about them during the banking crisis of 2008 before bringing it home.  i also considered storing it in a safety deposit box at my local bank but was advised that if the banking system went insolvent they could repossess it. 

You feared that the bank will steal your money because their business is bad? Wow, Bitcoin really is for you.
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