Bitcoin Forum
December 02, 2020, 03:31:36 AM *
News: Bitcointalk Community Awards
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoins, cash in Tax Free !!!  (Read 171 times)
Canada Bob
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 7
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 26, 2017, 07:29:49 PM
 #1

Looks like there's a good few folks who bought Bitcoins {and the like} at the right time and are now Millionaires, well at least on paper if they haven't yet cashed them in, but before they do they should consider what their Tax obligations might be {in the UK or anywhere else}.

If you have made a Million or more, or maybe even close to that amount and you don't fancy having 20% confiscated by the UK {or other} Government it might be worth moving your residence to the IOM {or some other place where capital gains tax is zero, or at least lower}.

The beauty about the IOM is, you don't have to "emigrate" to go and live there, and once there {if you have become a Bitcoin Millionaire} you can cash in and with the "savings" you made buy a decent property there for lets say 20% of what you cash in, and at some point sell it and move back to the UK {or where ever your home country is}.

At one time you just had to "reside" out of the UK for 12 months and then you could come back "tax free", there was so many folks doing that they've now changed the rules, you have to "reside" outside the UK for 5 years to keep the paws of HMRC off your money, but...

It's not like you have to spend all your time in the IOM, or anywhere else, as long as you can show that you aren't clocking up 183 days in the UK you would pay whatever tax that your new place of residence requires.

The more you have in Bitcoins etc the better this option or variations of it are, if it's just £100,000 that your cashing in then it's not quite as attractive.

Other than the above, far as I know there's no tax at all living in Denmark for anyone cashing their chips in, Hong Kong, Singapore & New Zealand seems to be the same, but you can't get a ferry there from Heysham...

What used to be Taxation now seems to be more like Confiscation of the average guys income.

Canada Bob.

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
surfinonmyownwavebaby
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 104


Decentralized Ecosystem for User-Generated Content


View Profile
December 26, 2017, 07:47:05 PM
 #2

Seems like a lot of work to undergo to forego some tax. I don't like tax myself but at the minimum capital gains tax is about half of what personal income tax is and that is pretty good. Only if you made a lot of money would this be worth it and even then you have to live outside your home country for a few years. Not an ideal situation by any means if you ask me.

   R E O S         [   A BLOCKCHAIN-BASED ECOSYSTEM FOR USER-GENERATED CONTENT   ]     JOIN NOW!
Introducing REOSchain™   |  The blockchain that digs out the true value of social media content

WHITEPAPER                    TELEGRAM                     TWITTER                     LINKEDIN                     GITHUB
Canada Bob
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 7
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 12:06:01 AM
 #3

It might "seem like a lot of work" but if you were required to pay 20% on a £1 Million cash in of your Bitcoins, how long would the average guy have to work to earn {and keep} £200,000 ? I'm thinking it would take 3 to 4 years maybe even 4 to 5 years for a lot of people. That's getting up every day, going to work with all the costs associated with that vs walking the dog in the IOM {or a place of your choice} for lets say 5 years while the property you bought for £200,000 to £500,000 turns into a nice little investment.

Sure I know some things are harder to do than others, but if I had to chose between keeping ALL the money that I'd made from Bitcoins and walking the dog in the IOM for 183 days a year I think the latter would have more appeal to me. It's kinda like "the working men's equivalent" to what the Arabs, Russians et-al do when they stroll the streets of London.

If someone offered me £50,000 a year for 4 years to rack up no more than 182 days in the UK would I feel it was something I couldn't cope with ?

It doesn't seem to bother folks working in Saudi or on contract work around the world, the difference is, they have to work, a self imposed tax exile doesn't.

It's down to the amount of money involved, that and the emotional attachments that folks feel obliged to impose on themselves...
gentlemand
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 2950


Welt Am Draht


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 12:15:55 AM
 #4

I'd dick around if taxes were 40% or more. 20%? It's already been written off in my head. I'd only cash in if it reached a point where the amount of money was too silly to ignore by which point percentages won't really matter to me.

Wealth should be about freedom of choice. I'd rather choose to do and live however I wanted rather than ticking off days in my diary for when I have to leave a certain jurisdiction. Who knows? I may be dead in two years.

Look at Guy Hands. It looks like he rattles around an empty house on Guernsey while everyone who's dear to him is elsewhere just to keep his hands on money he'll never spend anyway.

And I spent a few days on the IoM recently. It was fun for a weekend. For years on end? Nope.

knien
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 13


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 12:44:59 AM
 #5

hmmmm.... my first question, but an important one... what/where is IOM ?

Next to that, I've seen a lot of topics like this and people who made large sums of money in the crypto world still seem worried about the taxes they have to pay once they convert to fiat.
In my humble opinion, those people are not in for the long run, because if you really believe in crypto, it would never cross your mind to convert back to fiat money.
And if you own large sums of crypto money and you are worried for taxes, then move it to privacy coins.

   ⚡⚡ PRiVCY ⚡⚡   ▂▃▅▆█ ✅ PRiVCY (PRIV) is a new PoW/PoS revolutionary privacy project ● ☞ ✅ Best privacy crypto-market! ● █▆▅▃▂
    Own Your Privacy! ─────────────────║ WebsiteGithub  |  Bitcointalk  |  Twitter  |  Discord  |  Explorer ║─────────────────
   ✯✯✯✯✯                 ✈✈✈[Free Airdrop - Starts 9th June]✅[Tor]✈✈✈ ║───────────║ Wallet ➢ ✓ Windows  |  ✓ macOS  |  ✓ Linux
gentlemand
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 2950


Welt Am Draht


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 12:47:13 AM
 #6

hmmmm.... my first question, but an important one... what/where is IOM ?

Next to that, I've seen a lot of topics like this and people who made large sums of money in the crypto world still seem worried about the taxes they have to pay once they convert to fiat.
In my humble opinion, those people are not in for the long run, because if you really believe in crypto, it would never cross your mind to convert back to fiat money.
And if you own large sums of crypto money and you are worried for taxes, then move it to privacy coins.

Isle of Man, an island between Northern England and Ireland. It's a crown dependency, not a part of the UK, so they have many laws that have no resemblance to UK laws including tax. The residents are British citizens but not EU citizens. About 80,000 people live there.

knien
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 13


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 12:57:38 AM
 #7

hmmmm.... my first question, but an important one... what/where is IOM ?

Next to that, I've seen a lot of topics like this and people who made large sums of money in the crypto world still seem worried about the taxes they have to pay once they convert to fiat.
In my humble opinion, those people are not in for the long run, because if you really believe in crypto, it would never cross your mind to convert back to fiat money.
And if you own large sums of crypto money and you are worried for taxes, then move it to privacy coins.

Isle of Man, an island between Northern England and Ireland. It's a crown dependency, not a part of the UK, so they have many laws that have no resemblance to UK laws including tax. The residents are British citizens but not EU citizens. About 80,000 people live there.

Damn, how could I have missed that one Smiley.... Isle of man ? I'm a big motorsports fan and have all Isle of man video's since "ancient" times.
Didn't know this is a tax Paradise however.

   ⚡⚡ PRiVCY ⚡⚡   ▂▃▅▆█ ✅ PRiVCY (PRIV) is a new PoW/PoS revolutionary privacy project ● ☞ ✅ Best privacy crypto-market! ● █▆▅▃▂
    Own Your Privacy! ─────────────────║ WebsiteGithub  |  Bitcointalk  |  Twitter  |  Discord  |  Explorer ║─────────────────
   ✯✯✯✯✯                 ✈✈✈[Free Airdrop - Starts 9th June]✅[Tor]✈✈✈ ║───────────║ Wallet ➢ ✓ Windows  |  ✓ macOS  |  ✓ Linux
gentlemand
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 2950


Welt Am Draht


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 01:01:23 AM
 #8

Damn, how could I have missed that one Smiley.... Isle of man ? I'm a big motorsports fan and have all Isle of man video's since "ancient" times.
Didn't know this is a tax Paradise however.

Aye, I'm off to the Manx GP and Manx rally next year. I did the TT circuit in my hot hire Fiesta a few weeks back. Dunno how they do it.

There's your sexy rates.

https://www.pwc.com/im/en/services/tax/isleofman-tax-rates/money-matters.html

Note the complete lack of capital gains.

I still really, really would not want to live there though.

knien
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 13


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 01:14:10 AM
 #9

Damn, how could I have missed that one Smiley.... Isle of man ? I'm a big motorsports fan and have all Isle of man video's since "ancient" times.
Didn't know this is a tax Paradise however.

Aye, I'm off to the Manx GP and Manx rally next year. I did the TT circuit in my hot hire Fiesta a few weeks back. Dunno how they do it.

There's your sexy rates.

https://www.pwc.com/im/en/services/tax/isleofman-tax-rates/money-matters.html

Note the complete lack of capital gains.

I still really, really would not want to live there though.

Thanks m8!
sucks that a few days during the races are insufficient to apply for the tax rates Smiley

   ⚡⚡ PRiVCY ⚡⚡   ▂▃▅▆█ ✅ PRiVCY (PRIV) is a new PoW/PoS revolutionary privacy project ● ☞ ✅ Best privacy crypto-market! ● █▆▅▃▂
    Own Your Privacy! ─────────────────║ WebsiteGithub  |  Bitcointalk  |  Twitter  |  Discord  |  Explorer ║─────────────────
   ✯✯✯✯✯                 ✈✈✈[Free Airdrop - Starts 9th June]✅[Tor]✈✈✈ ║───────────║ Wallet ➢ ✓ Windows  |  ✓ macOS  |  ✓ Linux
1bitcoinsnet
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84
Merit: 10


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 01:17:35 AM
 #10

Trump just gave Bitcoin Millionaires incentive to stay in USA

Zero Capital Gains up to 750K

NICE

Just kidding actually, he closed the 1031 loophole so now every swap of coin for other coins on exchanges is taxable

so you move 1 million bucks of btc into say eth or lite and now they want immediate tax on the swap as to your profits

so if you're in coin from 5 or 10 bucks and just move to a new coin, all that profit moving into a new coin is no longer shielded under the like for like trade rule of 1031

wtf

leave the USA it's that simple, caymans is nice

Canada Bob
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 7
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 12:43:54 PM
 #11

Damn, how could I have missed that one Smiley.... Isle of man ? I'm a big motorsports fan and have all Isle of man video's since "ancient" times.
Didn't know this is a tax Paradise however.

There's more tax havens than the IOM though, but none that I'm aware of {other than maybe Denmark where Bitcoins aren't taxed} that is as handy as the IOM for Brits to take up residence in. Add to that, the culture is the same, the language is the same, and the price of property is reasonable, in fact cheaper than many parts of the UK, but, there's more to it than that...

Aye, I'm off to the Manx GP and Manx rally next year. I did the TT circuit in my hot hire Fiesta a few weeks back. Dunno how they do it.
There's your sexy rates.
https://www.pwc.com/im/en/services/tax/isleofman-tax-rates/money-matters.html
Note the complete lack of capital gains.

The link above spells it out.

I still really, really would not want to live there though.
But would you really want to pay £200,000 or more to HMRC just for the pleasure of "staying put" ?

As mentioned previously, you don't have to be away from what you now consider home all year round, as long as you don't clock up 183 days in the UK then you have no obligation to HMRC.

Let's say you did take up residence in the IOM, and you take the ferry to Heysham {or fly into Manchester on what's considered a Domestic flight}, you aren't required to show your Passport, so, no one is actually logging you in or out of the UK, no one knows {other than yourself} exactly how many days you actually spend in the UK. I have no doubt that some folks take advantage of that and they could possibly spend 200 {or more} days in the UK, I'm not proposing that, but I have no doubt that happens, there's certainly no shortage of "Private Aircraft" registered in the IOM, to get you in and out undetected, one owned by Lewis Hamilton, see the link below...

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=33790&headline=Second%20largest%20number%20of%20registered%20privatejets%20in%20Europe&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2017

One closely connected with Vladimir Putin...

https://en.crimerussia.com/oligarchs/two-jets-found-at-isle-of-man-offshore-reportedly-owned-by-putin-s-friend-rotenberg-/

The folks mentioned in the links above don't need to dabble in Bitcoins, they are already minted, but The Rich get Richer by keeping hold of their money and like Phil Collins, David Bowie {both ensconced in Switzerland for many a year}, then there's SIR Sean Connery, Jensen Button who suns himself {part of the year in Bahrain}, Lewis Hamilton who "hates living in Switzerland" but saves 10's of Millions by "residing" there's SIR Michael Caine {the double Oscar-winning actor is among the 1,600 people who tried to shield £1.2 billion in Liberty, an aggressive tax avoidance scheme.

Dishonourable mentions could also be given to, SIR Philip Green, SIR Mick Jagger, U2 / Bono, Mel Gibson, Mark Knopfler / Dire Straights, DAME Vivienne Westwood, George Michael, Anne Robinson and singer Katie Melua poured money into the scheme, which was run by Mercury Tax Group. George Michael reportedly sought to shelter £6.2 million, Melua £850,000, Caine £600,000, while the Arctic Monkeys collectively looked to reduce tax on around £1 million.

Also ran's include a selection of your favourite demi gods listed on the link below...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3711659/sun-investigation-super-rich-tax-relief-scheme/

Moving house {for that read, leaving the country}, for a few months a year doesn't seem to bother this lot, they come and go as they please, laughing all the way to the bank, that's how the Rich are getting Richer now at a faster pace than has ever been known, it's not soup kitchens for everyone...

I guess that there's a breaking point for all of us, a point where some folks who jumped onto the Bitcoin bandwagon early enough could well be contemplating now. We might not be able to afford to live in Switzerland, but IOM is affordable and handy...

Hopeman1
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 154
Merit: 10

Open and Transparent Science Powered By Blockchain


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 12:48:58 PM
 #12

Bitcoin does not have to be taxed at the moment, but many governments think it should be taxed, and I think the future is not going to be optimistic.

ORVIUM        Open and Transparent Science Powered By Blockchain        ORVIUM
█    Whitepaper        Telegram        Twitter        Facebook        Reddit        Blog    █
▇▆▅▃▃▃▃▃▃   Token Generation Event: Coming Soon   ▃▃▃▃▃▃▅▆▇
gentlemand
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 2950


Welt Am Draht


View Profile
December 27, 2017, 01:32:23 PM
 #13

I still really, really would not want to live there though.
But would you really want to pay £200,000 or more to HMRC just for the pleasure of "staying put" ?

I wouldn't be paying to stay put, I'd be paying for the choice to stay put if I wished.

I could very happily spend the rest of my life only spending a few weeks at a time in varying bits of the globe, but that might change.

Look at the sheer amount of ball ache this guy has put himself through to save some tax - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/feb/05/emi-citigroup-private-equity-terra-firma

That doesn't sound like much quality of life to me.

Like I said, if it was 40% or more I'd look into it. I can live with 20% just fine for the sake of convenience and choice but respect to anyone who takes the trouble. I couldn't be arsed myself.

Canada Bob
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 7
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 31, 2017, 01:36:33 AM
 #14

After asking around {for confirmation} I'm reliably told that the tax on Bitcoins and the like in Canada is effectively 10%, that's tolerable, here's how it works.

Capital Gains Tax in Canada is only on 50% of the Net profit that you make, so for a profit of $100,000 you'd get an allowance of $50,000 that goes straight into your pocket / your Bank. The other $50,000 is taxed as a capital gain at a rate of 20% ie $10,000 that seems tolerable to me, so I guess there won't be too many Canadians taking up residence in the IOM  Wink

According to the Canada Revenue Agency tax code, digital currencies like Bitcoins are treated the same as other common currencies. This indicates that any Investment Gain/Loss from trading Bitcoins are classified as Capital Gain/Loss. Therefore, only 50% of your investment gain from trading Bitcoins will be taxable. So when you sell your stock in Bitcoin currency, you will calculate tax on half of the difference between your purchase price and selling price of the Bitcoin. If that amount is negative because the value of Bitcoin went down, any losses can be used as tax credit against other income.


KevenDabid
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 196
Merit: 10


View Profile
December 31, 2017, 01:46:05 AM
 #15

This is a loophole in the rules. Rich people always try their best to avoid taxes, or they can be too expensive for many businesses to afford.

Hamstead
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 808
Merit: 250


View Profile
December 31, 2017, 02:04:18 AM
 #16

Bitcoin does not have to be taxed at the moment, but many governments think it should be taxed, and I think the future is not going to be optimistic.
Maybe the high transaction fees is enough. Considering that it would happen soon, I don't think that it will create a good result or effect into the entire cryptocurrency. Because it is known to us that, some authorities taking adavantage from collecting tax to the people.
CryptoHawkAG
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 31, 2017, 03:53:05 AM
 #17

I really hope for BTC that the transaction fees sink again. Otherwise, Bitcoin is about to die in the future  Undecided
Canada Bob
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 7
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 31, 2017, 01:59:01 PM
 #18

I really hope for BTC that the transaction fees sink again. Otherwise, Bitcoin is about to die in the future  Undecided

Nature of the beast though isn't it, if someone comes along that's "minted" / has just had some good fortune
there's no shortage of folks who would like to TAKE a share in their wealth, and that includes Governments...

What used to be {reasonable} "taxation" has now become "confiscation", no wonder the IOM has its appeal.
gentlemand
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2562
Merit: 2950


Welt Am Draht


View Profile
December 31, 2017, 02:06:56 PM
Last edit: December 31, 2017, 02:34:57 PM by gentlemand
 #19

It seems to be an unfashionable view, but taxation gives us the luxury of whinging about it in safety with our health and education in the bag. Of course most of it's squandered but I don't think there's an alternative.

Of course enough people here will wheel out - 'let private enterprise deal with my policing and infrastructure'.

Yeah. Sure. I'd give that model ten days before 90% of the global population was dead.

Excessive taxation is worth taking action over, but I can live with 20% just fine for the sake of a functioning society.

Canada Bob
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 7
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 31, 2017, 02:31:46 PM
 #20

This is a loophole in the rules. Rich people always try their best to avoid taxes.

That's how folks become rich Keven, by keeping hold of their money, a classic example is the Royal Family, wouldn't it be nice if for generations we were exempt from paying tax, and then when the secrecy was lifted and the embarrassment descended we decided that we would pay a voluntary amount, something that we thought would be appropriate, say 1% of our income ? that would work for me, long as I got free digs, say in a Palace or two, in return for throwing my money into the hat...

Here's one for you, a buddy of mine lives in an ex Council house in Wigan, he pays approx £400 a year MORE in Council Tax than the Queen pays for Buckingham Palace, his place has 7 rooms, Buckingham Palace has 775 rooms !!! go figure...

Queen pays council tax on all four properties

Buckingham Palace falls into the Valuation Band H, which means the Queen is currently eligible to pay £1,337.62 per year in council tax. Windsor Castle, comprising of more than 80 “households”, sees the Queen’s private apartments sit in the Valuation Band H, resulting in Her Royal Highness paying £2365.16 annually. Balmoral Castle, located in Aberdeenshire, is also listed with a Band H valuation which necessitates the Queen to pay £2,460.78 in council tax. Sandringham Estate, the Queen’s private country residence, sees our Monarch’s council tax bill sit at £3,033.2. Overall, for her four properties, the Queen pays £9,196.76 annually.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!