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Author Topic: Government surveillance, getting too intrusive? or is it required?  (Read 1003 times)
QuantumKiwi
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August 04, 2013, 09:20:39 AM
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Here in New Zealand the GCSB bill is coming into play allowing the govt to basically " spy " on New Zealand residents for " terrorism " and acts of criminal behaviour etc.

However, in the past they have not had the best record of keeping secure - leaks are happening all the time.

What do you think about government intelligence watching citizens?

More info here of what New Zealand's govt is doing.. What is the GCSB Bill? ( Government Communications Security Bureau )

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August 04, 2013, 10:13:25 AM
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I have come to the conclusion that governments are largely paranoid schizophrenics who should either be in a mental hospital or in jail, they are constantly chasing after largely imaginary enemies and anyone who is against them doing what they want suddenly become targets, adding to that, they are somehow exempt from being under the same type of surveillance we are because they say so and it has been proven from these leaks that they have the most to hide.
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August 04, 2013, 10:17:08 AM
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I have come to the conclusion that governments are largely paranoid schizophrenics who should either be in a mental hospital or in jail, they are constantly chasing after largely imaginary enemies and anyone who is against them doing what they want suddenly become targets, adding to that, they are somehow exempt from being under the same type of surveillance we are because they say so and it has been proven from these leaks that they have the most to hide.

Well, deep down they know their authority is imaginary.  If I was in that position I'd be paranoid too.  And I'd want to take away everyone's guns.
QuantumKiwi
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August 04, 2013, 10:18:01 AM
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Look at this this way, 2,500 govt employees hold 4+ million people to tax ransom here in NZ. Its crazy.

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tinus42
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August 04, 2013, 10:29:14 AM
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The STASI had one half of the East German population spying on the other half. It still didn't prevent from people succeeding in escaping to the west. Spying on everyone offers a false sense of security and opens up the possibilities of a world of abuse.
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August 04, 2013, 01:59:29 PM
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Government surveillance is a form of control, more people die from bee-stings/peanut allergies than 'terrorism' so I don't buy into that 'keeping us safe' nonsense.
Mike Christ
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August 04, 2013, 02:38:23 PM
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It's absolutely necessary.  You have to get those terrorists off your island (LOLOLOLOL) or else who knows what they might do?  They're climbing in your windows and snatching your peoples up.  And besides, if you're doing nothing wrong, you should have nothing to worry about.  Only criminals would care about surveillance; are you all criminals?

I remember when I used to think this way back in my HS days Tongue  Seems this kind of garbage is spawned only by fear, or, as American politicians like to put it, "Terrorists win!"  Anyway, remember, folks: freedom is slavery; ignorance is strength; peace is war; and Big Brother is watching you.

...seriously, what would terrorists want with a little island like NZ anyway?

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August 04, 2013, 03:36:30 PM
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It's absolutely necessary.  You have to get those terrorists off your island (LOLOLOLOL) or else who knows what they might do?  They're climbing in your windows and snatching your peoples up.  And besides, if you're doing nothing wrong, you should have nothing to worry about.  Only criminals would care about surveillance; are you all criminals?

I remember when I used to think this way back in my HS days Tongue  Seems this kind of garbage is spawned only by fear, or, as American politicians like to put it, "Terrorists win!"  Anyway, remember, folks: freedom is slavery; ignorance is strength; peace is war; and Big Brother is watching you.

...seriously, what would terrorists want with a little island like NZ anyway?
Plus, hey, you know you can trust all your elected officials and regulatory and administrative people.  You know they need access to everyone's emails and personal data just in case some rightwing or leftwing nutcase accused them of some totally bizarre thing like theft or corruption.

Look, the little people need some laws to protect them, sure.  So we probably need a bunch of PR and noise and some nice sounding legislative package and then a campaign to tell them over and over how it protects them.  But <<wink wink>> you know we need to have a group of exclusions in their for the duties of our government agencies and law enforcement personnel.

What I'm indicating is that legal code is not going to really help us.  Just like with the "Can Spam" act supposedly to prevent spam, it allows it.  Just like the US Post office is your junk mail provider.  Just like the HEPA privacy act codified all the exceptions to your privacy.

You need to do it yourself.
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August 04, 2013, 07:14:12 PM
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  these problems have already been solved, why not just make government transparent, isn't democracy supposed to be by the people for the people? how can it be the choice of the people when you do not know what the people want? When parts of the public process are excluded from our eyes from our ability to critique and evaluate?

 so in essence government is meeting the peoples needs by listening to the people very carefully(spying) and shutting down any opposition or ideas that the people should not have through laws that make it easier to meet the peoples needs as long as they are easy to do or just illegalize them to make the job easier to do for limited individuals to interpret the will of the people by loading the dice of what the people get exposed to, or are allowed express.

The blind leading the blind, this is my opinion, but who knows if my opinion should be shared or acknowledged by others, should I even know that others agree with me? Should others know that I am critical of my government brought into power through majority mandate? but I'm not part of their party, I just voted for the loser so I have no say.

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