HELP.. bitcoin transfer between my wallets big problem

[timbo555]

Hello

I'm really worried - Last July I transferred some of my BTC from my coinbase wallet to my Blockchain.info wallet.  On 1st Jan I attempted to transfer most of it back.

I saw on blockchain the 'address' from whcih the previous transaction came and sent them to that address.  They now seem to be lost

I have of course since mentally kicked myself very severely for not going to Coinbase to get the wallet ID and sending to that. 

I understand I sent it to a public / changing number used so it is not possible to trace multiple transactions?

Surely the chance of this being a valid wallet address is very low so what is happening and how do I recover them. 

I will reward well ($1,000 in BTC) assistance that sorts this but am obviously very keen not to share keys / addresses  etc on this forum

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[bitperson]

Hello

I'm really worried - Last July I transferred some of my BTC from my coinbase wallet to my Blockchain.info wallet.  On 1st Jan I attempted to transfer most of it back.

I saw on blockchain the 'address' from whcih the previous transaction came and sent them to that address.  They now seem to be lost

I have of course since mentally kicked myself very severely for not going to Coinbase to get the wallet ID and sending to that. 

I understand I sent it to a public / changing number used so it is not possible to trace multiple transactions?

Surely the chance of this being a valid wallet address is very low so what is happening and how do I recover them. 

I will reward well ($1,000 in BTC) assistance that sorts this but am obviously very keen not to share keys / addresses  etc on this forum

I understand Coinbase uses its own addresses (rather than individual user addresses) so as to be able to aggregate transactions and thereby reduce transaction costs. But the address should be under their control, so my suggestion would be to contact them.

[timbo555]

Thankyou - I have written to them already but not heard back yet.. they say it may be a few days which is really painful

On Blockchain, it is possible to follow the transaction and it looks like it has 'gone' somewhere so if you are right it is missing but with coinbase which would be amazing

any ideas on helping me get clear sooner would be great...

so to be clear, you are saying the address that it appears to be received from is one created by coinbase and owned by them, just not directly linked to my account ?

[bitperson]

Thankyou - I have written to them already but not heard back yet.. they say it may be a few days which is really painful

On Blockchain, it is possible to follow the transaction and it looks like it has 'gone' somewhere so if you are right it is missing but with coinbase which would be amazing

any ideas on helping me get clear sooner would be great...

so to be clear, you are saying the address that it appears to be received from is one created by coinbase and owned by them, just not directly linked to my account ?

In order for Coinbase to have sent you coins from that address, they would have to control the private key for that address. So yes.

[LoyceV]

Was the address that sent you the coins 1 address with a very high balance? If so, it's likely to be one of Coinbase's own addresses, and in that case they should be able to give you back your coins (if they're willing to do so).

Another possibility is that Coinbase sends funds from other user's deposit addresses. If that's the case, your funds were credited to someone else's account, and in that case it's unlikely they can give it back to you.
It depends on the way Coinbase handles withdrawals.

[timbo555]

The coinbase account I sent FROM last July had 1.75 BTC and a roughly equivalent at the time $ value of ethereum

do you think that counts as a very high balance that would use their address or possibly a lower  balance that means they might have used someone elses address?

[LoyceV]

I didn't mean your Coinbase account, I mean the Bitcoin address Coinbase used for your withdrawal. The same address you used to send your payment to again.

[HCP]

The coinbase account I sent FROM last July had 1.75 BTC and a roughly equivalent at the time $ value of ethereum

do you think that counts as a very high balance that would use their address or possibly a lower  balance that means they might have used someone elses address?

That's just not how Coinbase operate... they will give you a unique deposit address... any coins sent to that address will be "credited" to your account balance... but the coins themselves generally get aggregated into "holding" bitcoin addresses...

When users request a withdrawal... coinbase batch them all up and then send the individual amounts from one (or more) holding address(es)... debiting each users account balance by the appropriate amount. The holding addresses are not "linked" to any particular user, they're just a giant pool of coins.

By sending the coins back to the holding address, you've made it impossible for Coinbase to identify who the coins should be credited to. If you're super lucky, they might agree to credit them back to your account if you can provide sufficient evidence that you were the one who deposited the coins... perhaps they'll accept a signed message from the address you just sent from?

From what I understand, b.info don't provide a way to directly sign messages from b.info wallet addresses any more... but you can probably export it to another wallet like Electrum or use the BIP39 Mnemonic Code Convertor (https://iancoleman.io/bip39/) and your b.info 12 word seed to get the private key for the address you used to send the coins.

Contact Coinbase and ask them nicely if they'll help out. That is pretty much your only option at this point.

[Thirdspace]

On 1st Jan I attempted to transfer most of it back.

... but am obviously very keen not to share keys / addresses  etc on this forum

sharing public address and/or txid only damage your privacy
since your tx was on Jan 1st, has it been confirmed yet? you haven't said anything about its status.
if it hasn't been confirmed there is a good chance you can double spend your bitcoin and less hassle contacting coinbase
it's your choice... are you willing to share the address and its txid?

[timbo555]

Thanks for all replies - I'm relieved there is a way this might work.  I've had a support ticket with Coinbase for nearly 36 hours now on this - no answer.  I also spent an hour trying to get through on their phone support number (to talk it over, I know I cannot do more than get reassurance from this)

Anyone have recent experience of when they might reply?

I also have a request from Blockchain.info from 48 hours ago with no reply

Specific responses to HCP and Thirdspace

HCP  
 - very helpful thankyou.  in preparation for needing to prove this you are suggesting I export some BTC to electrum from b.info then send a sum of BTC from Electrum to Coinbase ensuring I follow a process like https://www.cryptocompare.com/wallets/guides/how-to-sign-a-message-with-electrum/  

OK, so I can prove ownership of an address from this but can you explain - presumably I'm trying to prove ownership of the b.info address I sent the BTC from, by sending to my coinbase wallet from it.  

1) Are you saying electrum will know that I sent from the same one since I will have sent to electrum from it, so I can 'forward' proof ?
2) I have a B.info wallet ID which I'm not supposed to share with anyone - are you saying I will recognise THIS ID in electrum once I 've sent some BTC to it?
.... I'm trying to get clear which ID I sign to prove ownership and send to Coinbase given the ones I see are mostly public changing ones

sorry for what may be silly questions

>>> UPDATE .. I'm attempting to follow the cryptocompare guide above to sign a message.
1) I have the address there that I got money from b.info.  I guess this is the one I want to sign with ??
2) If I copy it and try to create a sign I get "Cannot sign message with this type of address... you should sign with the corresponding private key..... your address does not have a unique public key...
3) When instead of copying an address I right click .. Private Key... I get as a result .. "Invalid bitcoin address"
SO... how do I sign referring to the address I got from b.info ?


Thirdspace
Yes it is confirmed.  is there still a question of some way you suggest you might help?

In general - proving / pursuading coinbase seems the clear approach

Thankyou all and there will be a reward I'll div out if/when I get this back

[HCP]

>>> UPDATE .. I'm attempting to follow the cryptocompare guide above to sign a message.
1) I have the address there that I got money from b.info.  I guess this is the one I want to sign with ??
2) If I copy it and try to create a sign I get "Cannot sign message with this type of address... you should sign with the corresponding private key..... your address does not have a unique public key...
3) When instead of copying an address I right click .. Private Key... I get as a result .. "Invalid bitcoin address"
SO... how do I sign referring to the address I got from b.info ?

No, you don't need to send BTC to prove ownership... you simply sign a message. This thread might prove useful: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990345.0


1) Basically, it works a bit like signing a transaction, you use the private key that matches the public key (address) to sign the message, proving that you have ownership of that private key.

So you need the PRIVATE KEY that matches the address that you SENT FROM... ie, your transaction from b.info to coinbase... you need the private key from the b.info address. You then import that private key into Electrum and then Electrum will let you sign the message from that address.


2) As above, using the address won't work, you need the PRIVATE KEY.


3) Unfortunately, b.info don't provide an easy way to export private keys if it was a key from your "default" wallet in b.info, but it IS possible to get. You would need to use https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

WARNING: You should do this OFFLINE (there are instructions at the bottom of Ian Coleman page that shows how to create an offline copy of the tool)

Put your 12 word b.info recovery phrase in where it says BIP39 Mnemonic, click the "BIP44" tab and then you should see your b.info addresses and private keys listed at the bottom. Find the address you sent FROM, it should be shown in the transaction details... then you can get the matching private key and import that private key to Electrum, and then you should be able to sign the message.

[timbo555]

OK HCP thanks, that helps a lot,

I think I can follow it except where you say to import the private key into electrum.

1) Do you mean as part of a transaction, or  I just paste it into their signing tool?... or.. Do you mean in Electrum I go into Tools / Load Transaction / From the blockchain... and then paste the private key that matches the public key I sent from ?

2) Also, once Electrum has created a signed message - that is just some digits on a screen - how do I get that communicated to Coinbase linked to my account ?

3) While you are 'here'... within blockchain.info I need the private key linked to the public key I sent from - that is not at all immediately obvious to me how to get it - can you point me towards this?

... again, may be silly messages !


Also.. any ideas on coinbase support times - I'm hearing online it is up to a week and VERY poor ... at least with your help I can be prepared to make a clear case for re-allocation

[HCP]

1) No, not as part of a transaction. You create a new wallet ("File -> New\Restore -> Import Bitcoin Addresses or Private Keys")... paste in the private key, you should get a wallet with a single address (it should match the address your coins were sent FROM)...

Alternatively, and probably easier, you can just import your entire 12 word b.info recovery phrase ("File -> New\Restore -> Standard Wallet -> I already have a seed -> Click "Options", select "BIP39 Seed" -> Enter Seed -> leave the derivation path as m/44'/0'/0')

That will import your entire b.info wallet into Electrum.

Either way, you then select "Tools -> sign/verify message", type your message at the top (Coinbase might ask for something specific to be entered here?)... put in the address that you accidentally sent the coins from... and then click sign... it will generate the signature.


2) Yes, once you have the signed message, you give the original message you typed into the message box, the ADDRESS (NOT the private key) and the "signature" to Coinbase (send them in an email or support ticket or whatever)... they should be able to then verify that you created the message using the private key for the address that sent the coins... which proves you have control/ownership of that address.


3) As in my previous message, you need to use the Ian Coleman BIP39 Mnemonic Code Converter tool (https://iancoleman.io/bip39/)... or just import your 12 word seed into Electrum as I've outlined above.

[timbo555]

OK HCP

Progress at last I believe and some check questions:
1) I used my recovery phrase in Electrum.  It asked if I wanted  to encrypt and I did not .. thought that might make the address not work for signature.  It found and downloaded all transactions from B.info.  this is impressive but
1a) does this mean my wallet is now in 2 places and could be spent from electrum or b.info ?
1b) I'm worried I did not encrypt as above - how can / should I resolve this... perhaps now delete the electrum wallet ?

2) with all transactions I was able to find the -1.25 BTC one It showed in details
a)a Transaction ID  (I included in my signed message)
b) an input address ... this matched one of the imported wallet addresses so I presume THIS is the one I sent from and put this in the signature address box.
c)2 outputs... the one I sent to (general coinbase unallocated to me... had 1250 against it )... and one in yellow with the remaining balance of BTC (499 or 0.5)

I updated the support ticket with a message and the signature of the address.

So... does this make sense / did I do right / any comments esp re the import security in 1 above ?

HCP - I reiterate you have been great and I want to reward this if/when I get my BTC back

[LoyceV]

OK HCP

You don't mind if I jump in, do you?

1) I used my recovery phrase in Electrum.  It asked if I wanted  to encrypt and I did not .. thought that might make the address not work for signature.

You can sign a message without encrypting your wallet.

It found and downloaded all transactions from B.info.  this is impressive but
1a) does this mean my wallet is now in 2 places and could be spent from electrum or b.info ?

You've duplicated your wallet, and can access your funds from both blockchain.info as well as your local Electrum.

1b) I'm worried I did not encrypt as above - how can / should I resolve this... perhaps now delete the electrum wallet ?

You can still set a password in Electrum.

2) with all transactions I was able to find the -1.25 BTC one It showed in details
b) an input address ... this matched one of the imported wallet addresses so I presume THIS is the one I sent from and put this in the signature address box.

Correct.

c)2 outputs... the one I sent to (general coinbase unallocated to me... had 1250 against it )... and one in yellow with the remaining balance of BTC (499 or 0.5)

That's your own change address, also correct.

I updated the support ticket with a message and the signature of the address.

So... does this make sense / did I do right / any comments esp re the import security in 1 above ?

I think you did everything correct.
Technically, each time you import a private key (or seed), you reduce the security a bit. As always, it mainly depends on how secure your computer is, if it's compromised, neither one (online or local wallet) is safe.

HCP - I reiterate you have been great and I want to reward this if/when I get my BTC back

HCP is very resourceful, I've noticed that before

[timbo555]

Thankyou LoyceV, I guess HCP is from down under.. he does not reply at this time of day!

Sounds good then and I'm basically now waiting for coinbase.  Any tactics for getting them to reply (4 days now) or comments for past cases of their track record in allocating my BTC gratefully received

Re my Electrum Wallet - for security I presume I'm better to send the small amount of money I had in it to coinbase and then delete the 'program' - presumably that removes the slight security risk (tho I have a decent password on electrum anyway)

Timbo

[HCP]

Thankyou LoyceV, I guess HCP is from down under.. he does not reply at this time of day!

It depends... I work shifts... so my "online" time is an always changing window

Re my Electrum Wallet - for security I presume I'm better to send the small amount of money I had in it to coinbase and then delete the 'program' - presumably that removes the slight security risk (tho I have a decent password on electrum anyway)

NOTE: Deleting/Uninstalling the program won't remove the wallet files (safety feature to prevent accidental wallet file loss  You'll need to manually track down the wallet file and delete it (http://docs.electrum.org/en/latest/faq.html#where-is-my-wallet-file-located)


Also, as for the ludicrously large numbers (1250 "BTC" and 499 "BTC")... Electrum, by default, shows wallet values as "milliBitcoins" or mBTC... you should try using "Tools -> Preferences -> Appearance" and change the units to BTC (unless you happen to like mBTC... which I absolutely HATE )... note that after you change to BTC, to set the number of "zeros after the decimal point" to the full "8", you need to close the preferences window, and then re-open it.

HCP - I reiterate you have been great and I want to reward this if/when I get my BTC back

HCP is very resourceful, I've noticed that before

Thanks guys... just trying to help out fellow BCTalkers

ps. LoyceV was on the money with the answers

[timbo555]

Thankyou LoyceV and HCP again... an update... not pretty..

Hello there,
Thank you for contacting Coinbase and apologies for the trouble here.
Unfortunately, digital currency transactions using most blockchains are irreversible, meaning once they are sent there is no way to reclaim funds.
If you sent digital currency from your Coinbase account to an email address by accident, your funds will be returned to you in 30 days if the funds remain unclaimed. If the email address has not already been claimed, you could do so to ensure the funds are returned to you.
I hope this information helps.

Apart from being very shaken by this I think he is missing the point - I've not asked them to reverse but to re-allocate.  Also there is no mention here they have read the parts of my post about proving..

Any further thoughts / tips before I respond?

I'll do so on a new ticket and an update to hopefully ensure it gets read again

Tim

[LoyceV]

Hello there,
Thank you for contacting Coinbase and apologies for the trouble here.
Unfortunately, digital currency transactions using most blockchains are irreversible, meaning once they are sent there is no way to reclaim funds.
If you sent digital currency from your Coinbase account to an email address by accident, your funds will be returned to you in 30 days if the funds remain unclaimed. If the email address has not already been claimed, you could do so to ensure the funds are returned to you.
I hope this information helps.

Support 101: Click auto-reply #26 without reading the actual question the customer sent you.

Apart from being very shaken by this I think he is missing the point - I've not asked them to reverse but to re-allocate.  Also there is no mention here they have read the parts of my post about proving..

Any further thoughts / tips before I respond?

At this point I would start with: "please read what I wrote to you", but it might help to stay a bit more friendly to get their support
"Thank you for your answer, unfortunately it's not what I asked" might do. What exactly did you write to support? Feel free to leave out any personal information (addresses and signatures).

[timbo555]

Yes... what I wrote was

1st post
I am with you and coinbase. In July I sent them 1.75 BTC. When it arrived THERE it had the above Hash showing. 9:50pm UK time 1st Jan I sent 1.25 BTC BACK to you but I used this code, thinking it was my Coinbase address... I now see it is a public hash number that changes and not the address. I am HORRIFIED... please help me reclaim this for a reward in BTC

8 hours later
To confirm the address I sent TO was xxxx
I'm told through a forum that you must control the private key to this address in order to make it the public facing sent from - so I believe it may be in your power to connect my send back to my account?

yesterday:
I can now prove it was me that sent this to you - Here is a signed message that (if I did it correctly) should show the address FROM which I sent 1.25 BTC to the above address:

Message:
Hello Coinbase Support - this is Timbo xxx, email xxx. This is a signature that shows the address I mistakenly sent 1.25BTC to your address: xxx from. I am writing to prove to you that it was ME that sent this so you can please re-allocate it to my Coinbase Wallet. The Transaction ID was xxx

Signature:
xxx

NOTE.. .this was sent FROM this address since I had received from Coinbase this address ending xxx on July 31 2017 @ 04:47 PM 1.75BTC.... this may help you confirm my Coinbase wallet. I'm updating this ticket not creating a new one since you say it is quicker. I hope it does not mean I'm not at the back of the queue


So if he only read the 1st post it is more forgivable

I'll write in an hour with a reply to his and a new post... any thoughts welcome, Tim