Do you think people pulling out of mining is good for Bitcoin?

[acoindr]

ITT: people who are mad because their GPU mining rigs are being marginalized by ASICs. Also, http://dustcoin.com/.

or http://www.coinchoose.com/
and enjoy mining at 5x profitability of BTC 

Good lord.

coinchoose.com appears to be the real world manifestation of what I described back in October 2012:

Solution to The Bitcoin Foundation (the announcement)

But the issue of confidence comes into play another way. Nothing backs cryptocurrencies, famously. They gain or lose value and acceptance based on how they are perceived. As I've illustrated it's easy for alternative cryptocurrencies to challenge each other, and no one knows what the market will come up with next. Since it's just as easy for merchants and everyone else to accept one form or another of these all electronic currencies and switch between them, any one could rise or fall at any time.

What I think this means is cryptocurrencies should be used transactionally, rather than as primary stores of value. I see a cryptocurrency version of xe.com showing all alt-coins values relative to gold (or USD to start). Exchange rates would be updated and available to merchants in real time. They could quote product prices in one, two, three or more currencies.

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[drawingthesun]

But the issue of confidence comes into play another way. Nothing backs cryptocurrencies, famously. They gain or lose value and acceptance based on how they are perceived. As I've illustrated it's easy for alternative cryptocurrencies to challenge each other, and no one knows what the market will come up with next. Since it's just as easy for merchants and everyone else to accept one form or another of these all electronic currencies and switch between them, any one could rise or fall at any time.

What I think this means is cryptocurrencies should be used transactionally, rather than as primary stores of value. I see a cryptocurrency version of xe.com showing all alt-coins values relative to gold (or USD to start). Exchange rates would be updated and available to merchants in real time. They could quote product prices in one, two, three or more currencies.

Interesting, do you believe Bitcoin cannot hold value in the long term (the next 10 - 100 years) and will be doomed to be a simple means to transfer value?

[acoindr]

Interesting, do you believe Bitcoin cannot hold value in the long term (the next 10 - 100 years) and will be doomed to be a simple means to transfer value?

No, I think it's possible for Bitcoin to continue to hold value, but what actually happens no one knows. My thoughts are not much different from what this community has always thought, for the most part, about Bitcoin which is that its future value is uncertain. Along with that, though, people believed that until something superior to Bitcoin came along it would reign supreme having the only worthwhile value.

What I realized at the time of that post (from the chaos of the Bitcoin Foundation feuding) was another possibility, that there could be multiple coins with worthwhile value at the same time as Bitcoin had value. Working from there I saw several advantages, a big one being the subject of the thread, which was providing the market a more diffuse power structure for cryptocurrency than following only Bitcoin and its new foundation.

I don't believe it's possible for all coins to have similar value, of course, as that means infinite inflation. I do believe, however, the market can value a select few at any given time above all others and these can be the most widely accepted. There still remains the possibility any "super" coin can be supplanted by something far superior, but that's the same as it always was. Until that happens the coin maintains first mover advantage, and reason to retain its value. So that probably means Bitcoin sticks around regardless. What this complex market reasoning means for average people, however, is that they probably stick with something far simpler and more predictable to store the majority of their wealth, like gold. Cryptocurrency is superior to gold for its transactional properties, while gold is superior to cryptocurrency for its wealth storing ability. Both have reasons for people to value them, and I believe will be valued accordingly.

[elor70]

Without mining bitcoin would become like a normal currency

[Lauda]

Without mining bitcoin would become like a normal currency

That wouldn't work 

[johnyj]

Miners are the working class of Bitcoin. ASIC miners are the greedy 1%.

The working class are all the vendors and developers that actually do something with BTC.

Miners are more like the bouncers of BTC.

And it doesn't matter if they use GPUs, ASICs or Windmills to do their work.

They have to secure the network, and that's all.

*Disclosure: I don't mine

That's a great view, I also think those people who accept bitcoin payment for their services are the one that back the bitcoin's value

[sal002]

ITT: people who are mad because their GPU mining rigs are being marginalized by ASICs. Also, http://dustcoin.com/.

or http://www.coinchoose.com/
and enjoy mining at 5x profitability of BTC 

Good lord.

coinchoose.com appears to be the real world manifestation of what I described back in October 2012:

Solution to The Bitcoin Foundation (the announcement)

But the issue of confidence comes into play another way. Nothing backs cryptocurrencies, famously. They gain or lose value and acceptance based on how they are perceived. As I've illustrated it's easy for alternative cryptocurrencies to challenge each other, and no one knows what the market will come up with next. Since it's just as easy for merchants and everyone else to accept one form or another of these all electronic currencies and switch between them, any one could rise or fall at any time.

What I think this means is cryptocurrencies should be used transactionally, rather than as primary stores of value. I see a cryptocurrency version of xe.com showing all alt-coins values relative to gold (or USD to start). Exchange rates would be updated and available to merchants in real time. They could quote product prices in one, two, three or more currencies.

Hmmm...and my idea to start the site was purely as a result of RUCoin and the insanely low difficulty / high exchange rates back around the same time

[bg002h]

Miners are the working class of Bitcoin. ASIC miners are the greedy 1%.

I used to CPU mine...while we all know someday we're gonna need super high power computers to run a huge network, we simply don't need that much processing power right now.  That said, the more powerful hashing devices we create, the more we need them to protect our network.  If someone decided to make an ASIC back when I was mining with my laptop, they'd have owned the  then rather puny network (and might not have cared if they trashed it...bitcoins weren't worth anything back then).

[acoindr]

Hmmm...and my idea to start the site was purely as a result of RUCoin and the insanely low difficulty / high exchange rates back around the same time

Interesting. Yes, I was aware there were a few surviving alt-coins besides Bitcoin around that time. IXCoin I think it was, which may have been the first alt, had died as well as a few others. I knew there were varying rates of profitability with the surviving alts (like litecoin) too, but nothing I ever took seriously. I never took a hard look at the viability of alt-coins until the Bitcoin Foundation uproar, which showed me they indeed could offer a value Bitcoin never could: alternative.

[sal002]

If I recall correctly, my 700 Mhs rig was mining almost a bitcoin every day back then due to RUCoin and the BTC-e exchange. 

Now, I wouldn't be able to do that since the information gets out quicker and coins adapt.  I realize, internally, that by running CoinChoose I am destroying my ability to mine more efficiently, but rather have the info out there.

[acoindr]

If I recall correctly, my 700 Mhs rig was mining almost a bitcoin every day back then due to RUCoin and the BTC-e exchange. 

Now, I wouldn't be able to do that since the information gets out quicker and coins adapt.  I realize, internally, that by running CoinChoose I am destroying my ability to mine more efficiently, but rather have the info out there.

That's very unselfish of you, but there is a positive tradeoff. You're helping the market make decisions more efficiently. Eventually that would have happened either way, though. If you hadn't posted the information someone else would have.

[DyslexicZombei]

Miners are the working class of Bitcoin. ASIC miners are the greedy 1%.

CPU miners basically said the same thing when GPU mining hit the scene and utterly destroyed what one could do with a CPU.  Not only were they faster but you could stack 3,4,5,6 even 8 GPU into one rig.  Now that is greedy compared to the limited output of a single high cost CPU.

The 1% aren't mining.  To be in the 1% means you are a hundred millionaire if not a billionaire.   

Still buy a low end ASIC, problem solved.  The reality though is most ASIC pre-orderers will likely loose money.  Way too much prebought capacity chasing the same amount of coins.  Not everyone but a lot of them.  If you think it is easy money then buy an ASIC. 

I hate to ruin your misconception but if you net $31K USD annually, guess what?

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Congratulations! On a global basis: You're in the 1%!

It's likely 99%+ of the members on this board fit this criteria.

Perhaps you guys meant the 0.01% & the 0.001%. Many live like the two brothers in Trading Places.  

[TiagoTiago]

We can't afford not having people on our side doing the mining; if honest miners don't hold the line, we risk getting screwed by dishonest ones.

[AliceWonder]

We can't afford not having people on our side doing the mining; if honest miners don't hold the line, we risk getting screwed by dishonest ones.

Which is why ASICs are so good.
Common joe's can buy a one or two and join a pool.

[Uomla]

We can't afford not having people on our side doing the mining; if honest miners don't hold the line, we risk getting screwed by dishonest ones.

Which is why ASICs are so good.
Common joe's can buy a one or two and join a pool.

90 ghs will be worthless in 6 months time .  this is what i think.  bitcoin will become what it hates the most! 

[Moogle]

It is a scary tho ght as to how fast things are increasing. Won't be long before the network is practically owned by 3 companies....

[btchaver]

Miners are the working class of Bitcoin. ASIC miners are the greedy 1%.

Wrong asics is just so much stronger now that gpus are left in the behinds without notice asics will eventually remove gpus in my opinion and id rather have an asics to save power.  Think of the power usage wasted power and 100 times less efficiency and space.  Why not build a bigger and stronger system that runs faster and less efficient.  Who cares about miners.  Global warming and waste of power is more important and why would you pass up such power 100 times more than a gpu.  Dont feel bad it was inevitable and i wouldnt be suprized sorry for spelling if a more efficient asics with less power usage and faster than what we have now in a few years. who knows!

[FreeMoney]

We can't afford not having people on our side doing the mining; if honest miners don't hold the line, we risk getting screwed by dishonest ones.

Which is why ASICs are so good.
Common joe's can buy a one or two and join a pool.

90 ghs will be worthless in 6 months time .  this is what i think.  bitcoin will become what it hates the most! 

Incredibly huge speeds amounting to absolutely nothing is exactly what will secure the network.

If mining isn't profitable in an individuals situation then they should spend the capital on bitcoins instead, that will marginally increase the supply of mining. So there is no loss and you it helps secure the network.

[cheater123]

Yes I think so, it is so difficult to mine might as well buy

[desired_username]

We can't afford not having people on our side doing the mining; if honest miners don't hold the line, we risk getting screwed by dishonest ones.

Which is why ASICs are so good.
Common joe's can buy a one or two and join a pool.

90 ghs will be worthless in 6 months time .  this is what i think.  bitcoin will become what it hates the most!  

Such a misinformed and false opinion. There are a lot more variables than expected profit and hashrate.

I guess, most people see the charts from 1-2 years and they think everyone got huge profits with mining. It was not the case. timing, exchange rate, cost of hardware and power are as important now as it was back then.

This is not a great time to enter mining - that is true - but it doesn't mean that it will never be a good time in the future.

Look out for next gen asics and place orders in the first 2 batches.


As for having a few companies "owning" the network would cause these comapnies to go bankrupt.  Centralization is not in their interest. Bitcoin main strength is it's peer to peer nature.