[BitFunder] IceDrill.ASIC IPO (235 Thash Mining Operation powered by HashFast)

[VolanicEruptor]

Oh my god you guys.. get the fuck out of this dangerous bullshit.  

The intensity of your shouting tells me you're buying and probably talking to the off-book-100k-seller already.

If I wanted to invest in Hashfast, I would purchase directly from them, AND get covered by their Miners Protection..
Icedrill is overvalued and to be polite about it, a complete  ripoff.  

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[bouchon2cul]

From my own calculations, if IceDrill gets 363 Th (the best case), they get a Gh for $6.7.
However https://hashfast.com/shop/babyjet/ is advertised as "As Low as $2.80 / GHash"
I know it doesn't include the electricity and hosting, but 350W, I can certainly handle it at home.

Could someone confirm my calculation?

[crumbs]

From my own calculations, if IceDrill gets 363 Th (the best case), they get a Gh for $6.7.
However https://hashfast.com/shop/babyjet/ is advertised as "As Low as $2.80 / GHash"
I know it doesn't include the electricity and hosting, but 350W, I can certainly handle it at home.

Could someone confirm my calculation?

The "as low as 2.80 per GH/s" is misleading -- they're counting the extra *chips* you will receive from their miner protection program *if* your miner fails to ROI.  You will get those chips without the supporting circuitry etc., and three months after the date you receive your miner.

Edit: The 3 months in the future part is the real nasty -- hashpower later is not the same as hashpower today

[ajk]

some people are just so pathetic lol, VE and Vycid are 2 people who come to mind, this kid was all about Icedrill and wanted to show me pictures of his stake in the company when I have been calling it a mining bond from the getco and now he is completely against it now,

Vycid believes he has credibility... Are you absolutely joking me, he like VE loves to read his own posts, you guys need better things to do because the way both of you trade is Laughable,

Edit:
If you signed up less than 4-5 months ago and have near 1K posts you have to much time on your hands and care far to much about your image online, good job for pretty much trying to be the coolest kid at the clown party (which the forum absolutely is)

[bouchon2cul]

From my own calculations, if IceDrill gets 363 Th (the best case), they get a Gh for $6.7.
However https://hashfast.com/shop/babyjet/ is advertised as "As Low as $2.80 / GHash"
I know it doesn't include the electricity and hosting, but 350W, I can certainly handle it at home.

Could someone confirm my calculation?

The "as low as 2.80 per GH/s" is misleading -- they're counting the extra *chips* you will receive from their miner protection program *if* your miner fails to ROI.  You will get those chips without the supporting circuitry etc., and three months after the date you receive your miner.

Edit: The 3 months in the future part is the real nasty -- hashpower later is not the same as hashpower today

Sure but then the miner protection program does what it does: protect me.

[crumbs]

From my own calculations, if IceDrill gets 363 Th (the best case), they get a Gh for $6.7.
However https://hashfast.com/shop/babyjet/ is advertised as "As Low as $2.80 / GHash"
I know it doesn't include the electricity and hosting, but 350W, I can certainly handle it at home.

Could someone confirm my calculation?

The "as low as 2.80 per GH/s" is misleading -- they're counting the extra *chips* you will receive from their miner protection program *if* your miner fails to ROI.  You will get those chips without the supporting circuitry etc., and three months after the date you receive your miner.

Edit: The 3 months in the future part is the real nasty -- hashpower later is not the same as hashpower today

Sure but then the miner protection program does what it does: protect me.

It's certainly better than nothing, but i'm not sure how much protection that program offers.  If the BOM to make those chips into hashing miners costs more than the coins you'll mine with the finished product, it'll simply put you further into the red.

I don't want to argue the point here -- simply answered your question.

[VolanicEruptor]

Looks like some people are getting smart, and getting out when they're supposed to.. expect .0009 soon! 

[bouchon2cul]

From my own calculations, if IceDrill gets 363 Th (the best case), they get a Gh for $6.7.
However https://hashfast.com/shop/babyjet/ is advertised as "As Low as $2.80 / GHash"
I know it doesn't include the electricity and hosting, but 350W, I can certainly handle it at home.

Could someone confirm my calculation?

The "as low as 2.80 per GH/s" is misleading -- they're counting the extra *chips* you will receive from their miner protection program *if* your miner fails to ROI.  You will get those chips without the supporting circuitry etc., and three months after the date you receive your miner.

Edit: The 3 months in the future part is the real nasty -- hashpower later is not the same as hashpower today

Sure but then the miner protection program does what it does: protect me.

It's certainly better than nothing, but i'm not sure how much protection that program offers.  If the BOM to make those chips into hashing miners costs more than the coins you'll mine with the finished product, it'll simply put you further into the red.

I don't want to argue the point here -- simply answered your question.

OK thanks. I did the calculations without the program, now both options (shares or miner) look pretty bad.

[Deprived]

The miner protection plan offers no useful protection.  Not having it is pretty irrelevant.  It's just a way to get people who lost money buying rigs to spend more money buying unpopulated boards from the same people who just sold you loss-making boards with chips already installed.

Which isn't to say they'll definitely make a loss - just that if the rigs make a large loss then the MPP is worthless without a time machine to deliver the chips at the time you started mining rather than at an undefined point more than 90 days later.

[bouchon2cul]

I see. So what is IceDrill exactly? The HashFast revenue stream protection program?

[Eisenhower34]

We are losing track of the issue that concerns people most right now. Many shares have been sold @ bitfunder below the official IPO price of 0.0014 BTC and are flooding the market now, causing a price drop and a loss for everyone who bought shares for the official price.

Either this has always been part of the plan or an unfortunate and never intended event, but we need a fix.

Either a buy back wall @ 0.00138 BTC or a prohibition to sell shares before IceDrill starts mining for those people who bought before the IPO would do the trick for us.

[bouchon2cul]

We are losing track of the issue that concerns people most right now. Many shares have been sold @ bitfunder below the official IPO price of 0.0014 BTC and are flooding the market now, causing a price drop and a loss for everyone who bought shares for the official price.

Either this has always been part of the plan or an unfortunate and never intended event, but we need a fix.

Either a buy back wall @ 0.00138 BTC or a prohibition to sell shares before IceDrill starts mining for those people who bought before the IPO would do the trick for us.

I can't believe it. You want to forbid people from selling below a price? But no one would be buying. That's basically forbidding anyone from selling his shares.
People are allowed to stop believing and cut their losses. Or simply need some urgent cash.

On your buyback idea - with what resources?

What's the point here? Share prices reflect people's sentiment. Price fixing does not work; shares would just be sold on the black market (actually the already are, see the guy with his 10000 shares!).

[Eisenhower34]

Please read again:
prohibition to sell shares before IceDrill starts mining for those people who bought before the IPO

So everyone who bought @ 0.0014 and wants to cash out and take a loss isnt affected by this rule!

I hate people who cannot read and try to make an argument...

On your buyback idea - with what resources?

Ask some investors to create a buy wall... with 0.00138 BTC its still a 1.5% gain for the investors...

[Deprived]

Please read again:
prohibition to sell shares before IceDrill starts mining for those people who bought before the IPO

I hate people who cannot read and try to make an argument...

It's too late to do that now if that wasn't a condition imposed when the sale occurred.  You can't sell someone something then later impose conditions on it - even when, sensibly, those conditions should have been imposed in the first place.  And how would such a ban be implemented anyway?  Only practical way to do it is NOT to transfer the shares until after IPO has ended - and the horse has already bolted on that option.

[Eisenhower34]

It's too late to do that now if that wasn't a condition imposed when the sale occurred.  You can't sell someone something then later impose conditions on it - even when, sensibly, those conditions should have been imposed in the first place.  And how would such a ban be implemented anyway?  Only practical way to do it is NOT to transfer the shares until after IPO has ended - and the horse has already bolted on that option.

Valid point... but maybe some friendly headsup that they are ruining the IPO with their behaviour and destroying the value of their remaining shares when the IPO fails would be enough reason to accept those new terms?

[Deprived]

On your buyback idea - with what resources?

Ask some investors to create a buy wall... with 0.00138 BTC its still a 1.5% gain for the investors...

Why would anyone who wanted to buy shares create a bidwall at .00138 when they can get the shares cheaper by waiting?  The single main thing driving the price down is the apparent panic by some people to sell their shares - that sends a very clear signal to anyone actually intending to buy that if they wait a bit longer they may be able to buy even cheaper.

It isn't the responsibility of investors to bail out other investors at above market rates.

If you hold shares and believe they're UNDERVALUED then you should be looking to buy not sell.
If you hold shares and believe they're OVERVALUED then why did you buy them for more than current market price?  As surely they were even more overvalued then?
If you were just trading and got caught with them then that's a risk you take trading.

I got caught very slightly with these but that happens from time to time and is no big deal (and of course I bought below IPO so aren't too fussed - just can't flip for a profit yet).  If it falls a bit more I may well even buy some more - but all the time I see posts like yours I know there's a good chance they'll go even lower so there's no rush to buy even if I think they're good value at present (I'm not making any comment either way on what I believe their value is).

[Eisenhower34]

So what happens when this course continues and those 7mio outstanding shares dont sell? The IPO fails! What will happen when the IPO fails? Icedrill will go bankruptcy and all your shares value will drop to 0. So its not about protecting other investors, its about protecting your own money!

[Deprived]

So what happens when this course continues and those 7mio outstanding shares dont sell? The IPO fails! What will happen when the IPO fails? Icedrill will go bankruptcy and all your shares value will drop to 0. So its not about protecting other investors, its about protecting your own money!

Think you missed a change in the contract.  Even if no more shares sell Icedrill now proceeds - just with the private share count reduced so public investors get 10 GH/share (or whatever the guaranteed amount was).  It IS better for investors if more of the shares sell - but not enormously so.

Failure to sell more shares is pretty horrible for the issuer - but not a disaster for investors (if they make a loss then they wouldn't necessarily have done a lot better even if all shares sold).

EDIT: When I say it's horrible for the issuer that assumes their profit was intended to come from mining.  If their profit was always intended to come from some deal with/investment in the hardware supplier then obviously they're still fine.

[DeaDTerra]

There is a lot of talk about that the share prices are going down.
I would just like to give you my personal view,
If a share has underlying assets priced in USD such as IceDrill.ASIC has (HF chips and equipment) and the base currency is BTC.
Then if the BTC goes up in value in terms of USD, then the underlying assets lose value in BTC.
For example,
You purchase a gold bar that costs 100 USD with 1 BTC (when Bitcoin is 100 USD a piece),
The BTC price then goes up to 130 USD per Bitcoin, while the gold price stays at 100 USD per piece.
This will cause the gold bar to be worth 0.77 BTC/100 USD.
Essentially purchasing assets which have assets priced in USD is shorting Bitcoins,
Now as this is a mining operation the variables are more complex, but because we are not yet mining the above is still true.

On the flip side if the price of Bitcoin goes down to say 50 USD per Bitcoins,
Then your gold bar is worth 2 BTC/100 USD.
The underlying assets have not changed, the currency we use to value it has.

That is just my take on things, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

As for the 7 million shares, Eisenhower it is no longer a hard limit but a soft limit and hence do not need to be sold for the IPO to be deemed a success.
//DeaDTerra

[VolanicEruptor]

There is a lot of talk about that the share prices are going down.
I would just like to give you my personal view,
If a share has underlying assets priced in USD such as IceDrill.ASIC has (HF chips and equipment) and the base currency is BTC.
Then if the BTC goes up in value in terms of USD, then the underlying assets lose value in BTC.
For example,
You purchase a gold bar that costs 100 USD with 1 BTC (when Bitcoin is 100 USD a piece),
The BTC price then goes up to 130 USD per Bitcoin, while the gold price stays at 100 USD per piece.
This will cause the gold bar to be worth 0.77 BTC/100 USD.
Essentially purchasing assets which have assets priced in USD is shorting Bitcoins,
Now as this is a mining operation the variables are more complex, but because we are not yet mining the above is still true.

On the flip side if the price of Bitcoin goes down to say 50 USD per Bitcoins,
Then your gold bar is worth 2 BTC/100 USD.
The underlying assets have not changed, the currency we use to value it has.

That is just my take on things, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

As for the 7 million shares, Eisenhower it is no longer a hard limit but a soft limit and hence do not need to be sold for the IPO to be deemed a success.
//DeaDTerra

All share valuation should stay strictly in BTC:
If BTC stock share price is valued based on a projected 50% annual return,
eg. 1 share = 1 BTC, which shareholders have valued it at expecting .5BTC/year,
then that is exactly what the valuation will stay at, despite what a BTC itself is worth in fiat.
It's all about projected earnings in BTC/share.  USD has nothing to do with it until you cash out.