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Author Topic: Split AC Unit for Cooling Mining Farm?  (Read 645 times)
KevinCookeMMA (OP)
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January 06, 2018, 12:14:15 AM
Last edit: January 12, 2018, 04:27:41 PM by KevinCookeMMA
 #1

Does anyone have experience using a Split AC unit to cool a 12x13 room? 12 Avalon 741 & 12 GPU 6 card rigs. Located in a basement room and there is a small basement window. Using an exhaust fan would work but would run into trouble with balancing the air (need sufficient air intake in the summers in Virginia).

Would a split AC unit work well? Does anyone have experience cooling their farm with them? Thank you!
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January 07, 2018, 07:29:18 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #2

I’m currently working on a project for this to accommodate up to 40 ASICs.  Looking at using two 2 Fujitsu models AOU45RLXFZ running mini splits providing T 90,000 BTU cooling.  Portable filtration. Industrial curtain for climate area.  Working out the zone distribution and total amps. I’m out of panel space. So I’m bringing my house up 320 amps nominal with capacity to 400 amp peak intermittent.  Cooling may require 2 240 volt outlets with 50 amps. That’s the plan...waiting to hear back on a couple bids. Then I can do some modeling on costs.  It’s been a week since the HVAC review and not heard back from contractors.  I’d really like to avoid this expense but my space can’t accommodate cooling with just mass flow.  Let me know if you want any updates.
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January 09, 2018, 01:35:08 AM
 #3

I’m currently working on a project for this to accommodate up to 40 ASICs.  Looking at using two 2 Fujitsu models AOU45RLXFZ running mini splits providing T 90,000 BTU cooling.  Portable filtration. Industrial curtain for climate area.  Working out the zone distribution and total amps. I’m out of panel space. So I’m bringing my house up 320 amps nominal with capacity to 400 amp peak intermittent.  Cooling may require 2 240 volt outlets with 50 amps. That’s the plan...waiting to hear back on a couple bids. Then I can do some modeling on costs.  It’s been a week since the HVAC review and not heard back from contractors.  I’d really like to avoid this expense but my space can’t accommodate cooling with just mass flow.  Let me know if you want any updates.

Let me know how it goes - my electrician recommended 24,000 BTU for my set up in a 12x13 ft. room. For now I am going to put 2 800 CFU fans in the one window and leave my 2 other basement windows open. Keep me updated though, a split AC unit might work better - just not sure how much it would cost to run them.
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January 09, 2018, 06:43:30 PM
 #4

Running AC will demolish your profits as you need a large amount of AC for that many miners. A 24k BTU AC will not keep up with that many ASICs

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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January 11, 2018, 10:53:00 PM
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Running AC will demolish your profits as you need a large amount of AC for that many miners. A 24k BTU AC will not keep up with that many ASICs

I'm getting away with this many ASICs since it's winter but realizing I should probably sell them just because it does not work the best for residential (cooling wise).
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January 12, 2018, 02:40:06 AM
Merited by vapourminer (2)
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Running AC will demolish your profits as you need a large amount of AC for that many miners. A 24k BTU AC will not keep up with that many ASICs

I'm getting away with this many ASICs since it's winter but realizing I should probably sell them just because it does not work the best for residential (cooling wise).

Before giving up I would try to split the room in to a hot side and a "cold" side. Removing the miner's waste heat is the single biggest thing people seem to overlook. Make your cold side as small as possible, if you can provide ambient air you might be surprised. If that is not enough then a small portable A/C unit might work, remember you do not have to cool the output of the miners you simply need to supply them with cooler air.

Lastly, depending on your electricity costs you might still be profitable even with A/C.

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January 12, 2018, 02:50:20 AM
 #7

Air conditioner unit ------> No.


Good air ventilation, with cooling fans if needed -----> Yes.

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January 12, 2018, 02:54:56 AM
 #8

Air conditioner unit ------> No.


Good air ventilation, with cooling fans if needed -----> Yes.

I will not argue with the smarter people in the room Smiley

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January 12, 2018, 04:12:42 AM
Merited by vapourminer (2)
 #9

Wow!

24000 BTU is only 7kW

40 miners = 54kW

That would be a disaster.

The best approach is to move cool air in from outside and exhaust all hot air back outside. Make sure to filter the air on the way in. Be sure to completely isolate the intake and exhaust of all the miners. It's very inefficient to allow the hot and cool air to mix at all. Be sure to place the outdoor intake and exhaust portals as far apart as possible.

I like to pull the air in near the floor on the North side of the building and exhaust out the roof vent.
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January 12, 2018, 04:27:15 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #10

Wow!

24000 BTU is only 7kW

40 miners = 54kW

That would be a disaster.

The best approach is to move cool air in from outside and exhaust all hot air back outside. Make sure to filter the air on the way in. Be sure to completely isolate the intake and exhaust of all the miners. It's very inefficient to allow the hot and cool air to mix at all. Be sure to place the outdoor intake and exhaust portals as far apart as possible.

I like to pull the air in near the floor on the North side of the building and exhaust out the roof vent.

I have a basement window that is at the top of the room - first attempt at cooling is to put 2 12 inch fans in there for 1600 CFU. Air intake would be to let the other 2 basement windows open and let it naturally balance out - I will block off the room with drywall and put vents in at the bottom.

It would be easier to isolate the hot air but I have 12 ASIC's (6 being remote hosted right now) and 12 GPU rigs that blow hot air everywhere.. I will have mesh netting to help filter the air on top of the screen to the basement windows.

All of the electricians and HVAC people that come out keep saying to use a Split Unit


Pictures: https://imgur.com/oUnvtnn
https://imgur.com/K4atfnT
https://imgur.com/gUyvYV4

Little 400 CFU fan in right now as a temporary solution - I live in VA so it has been cold lately and this is better than nothing.

I have an old dryer vent I plan on ducting the 400 CFU fan into to - I am thinking have 6 or 12 of the ASICs blow into a cornered off part of the room and have that 400 CFU take it all out.. not sure if it will be enough though? Probably not
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January 12, 2018, 04:34:01 PM
 #11


All of the electricians and HVAC people that come out keep saying to use a Split Unit

Thats because they have no understanding of mining. A mini-split unit is just another type of AC unit, it does nothing special except exchange more heat than a window unit. While it might be slightly more efficient you are still looking at like an $8k (installed) investment into AC to have enough power to keep up with the miners heat output that you currently have, and that leaves no room for expansion.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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January 12, 2018, 06:08:53 PM
 #12


All of the electricians and HVAC people that come out keep saying to use a Split Unit

Thats because they have no understanding of mining. A mini-split unit is just another type of AC unit, it does nothing special except exchange more heat than a window unit. While it might be slightly more efficient you are still looking at like an $8k (installed) investment into AC to have enough power to keep up with the miners heat output that you currently have, and that leaves no room for expansion.

Heard that. Got a quote for a 24,000 BTU unit for $5K and I was like wow, makes more sense to go buy some land and throw a shed on there instead of going that route.. not to mention the costs of having it cooled through air flow instead of AC. Thank you for your input!
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January 12, 2018, 10:31:47 PM
 #13

40 miners = 54kW

That would be a disaster.


 54 KW is about 160,000 BTU - that wouldn't be a disaster, that would be a "miners in constant overheat shutdown" if you didn't end up with a fire.
 MASSIVE AIRFLOW (and possibly some Evap cooling input to the "cold side" of the room as PART OF that massive airflow) is the only viable answer.

 HVAC folks generally have NO CLUE about the heat load miners generate.
 Even DATA CENTER folks have NO CLUE about the heat density of miners, as a general rule.






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January 12, 2018, 10:36:10 PM
Merited by vapourminer (2)
 #14


Little 400 CFU fan in right now as a temporary solution - I live in VA so it has been cold lately and this is better than nothing.

I have an old dryer vent I plan on ducting the 400 CFU fan into to - I am thinking have 6 or 12 of the ASICs blow into a cornered off part of the room and have that 400 CFU take it all out.. not sure if it will be enough though? Probably not

 You're not even in the ballpark.
 You need to start thinking in terms of more like 5000-10000 CFM as a minimum.

 A 6" dryer vent might handle *3* ASIC units, if you have a heavy duty "booster" type fan on it or *2* miners if you Y-duct the output of those miners directly into it - no way is it even going to be CLOSE to handling 12.
 Most dryer vents are more like 4" though - which is enough for ONE miner, but no more, and even with a high-end BOOSTER fan won't handle more than perhaps 2 miners.





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January 12, 2018, 11:13:24 PM
 #15


Little 400 CFU fan in right now as a temporary solution - I live in VA so it has been cold lately and this is better than nothing.

I have an old dryer vent I plan on ducting the 400 CFU fan into to - I am thinking have 6 or 12 of the ASICs blow into a cornered off part of the room and have that 400 CFU take it all out.. not sure if it will be enough though? Probably not

 You're not even in the ballpark.
 You need to start thinking in terms of more like 5000-10000 CFM as a minimum.

 A 6" dryer vent might handle *3* ASIC units, if you have a heavy duty "booster" type fan on it or *2* miners if you Y-duct the output of those miners directly into it - no way is it even going to be CLOSE to handling 12.
 Most dryer vents are more like 4" though - which is enough for ONE miner, but no more, and even with a high-end BOOSTER fan won't handle more than perhaps 2 miners.


How is your farm set up for cooling? I am going to have 2000 CFM in exhaust fans total - 1600 in the window and 400 in the old dryer ducting in a 10x12 room. I am considering buying some land and putting a shed on it with ~5000 in exhaust fans on the top and then holes in the side to let air in. I have a couple buddies who have their set up this way. I am trying to work with what I have though.. have a HOA so can't put a shed on my property since my backyard overlooks a golf course.
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January 12, 2018, 11:50:10 PM
 #16

40 miners = 54kW

That would be a disaster.


 54 KW is about 160,000 BTU - that wouldn't be a disaster, that would be a "miners in constant overheat shutdown" if you didn't end up with a fire.
 MASSIVE AIRFLOW (and possibly some Evap cooling input to the "cold side" of the room as PART OF that massive airflow) is the only viable answer.

 HVAC folks generally have NO CLUE about the heat load miners generate.
Even DATA CENTER folks have NO CLUE about the heat density of miners, as a general rule.



You're right on that aspect, I manage a data center and initially I was shocked by both the BTU output and CFM of these ASIC miners. The only things I have that come close are big Cisco 9509s with 8 power supplies ea.


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January 13, 2018, 04:53:00 AM
 #17

It depends on what kind of data center you're running. My typical OCP cabinets are running 20kW, I have routers running 30kW. My cabinets are only 2' wide so I'd bet the power density is 2-3X.

I just designed one room to run 9.6MW IT load, nominal, up to 32kW per 2' cabinet. These little S9s at 1.3kW aren't so bad.

I'd say that every mining farm I've seen so far is completely missing the idea.

Looking at your pictures I'd suggest you simply isolate the exhaust of all the miners from the intake. I mean a physical barrier which prohibits the hot air from mixing with the cool air. I'd just build a box that contains all the hot air which will go out that convenient window. Place your shelves against the outside off the box, set the miner on the shelf so that the exhaust fan touches the wood or better yet sheet rock, use a pencil to outline the location of the exhaust fan, cut a hole to stick the fan through the hole and turn it on. Then do the rest of them. Hot air isolation and containment is the key.

If you really want to, measure the differential pressure between the box and outside. If it exceeds 0.5 psi, mount a squirrel cage blower with 20% more capacity than the miners total the suck the air through the miners and force it outside. If you put a VFD on that blower, you can actually set it to about -0.1. This is critical to improve the effectiveness of the radial fans on the miners. They'll last much longer that way. Don't worry about the fan energy. I've run this test a couple times and found the fan energy used by the exhaust fan is negated by the fan energy reduction in all the miners. Then, the miner chips do run cooler so they burn less energy. It'll actually improve your site efficiency.

Sheet rock is better than wood as it's really hard to burn. Your noise level will go way down too. You could even add a layer of insulation but I don't think you'll need it.

Too many mining farms try to throw the air around the room. Too many data centers do too. My data centers all have air to Freon heat exchangers on the back doors of each cabinet.

Think about how the shed solution isolates the hot and cool air. This is doing the same thing.


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January 13, 2018, 08:56:44 PM
 #18

It depends on what kind of data center you're running. My typical OCP cabinets are running 20kW, I have routers running 30kW. My cabinets are only 2' wide so I'd bet the power density is 2-3X.

I just designed one room to run 9.6MW IT load, nominal, up to 32kW per 2' cabinet. These little S9s at 1.3kW aren't so bad.

I'd say that every mining farm I've seen so far is completely missing the idea.

Looking at your pictures I'd suggest you simply isolate the exhaust of all the miners from the intake. I mean a physical barrier which prohibits the hot air from mixing with the cool air. I'd just build a box that contains all the hot air which will go out that convenient window. Place your shelves against the outside off the box, set the miner on the shelf so that the exhaust fan touches the wood or better yet sheet rock, use a pencil to outline the location of the exhaust fan, cut a hole to stick the fan through the hole and turn it on. Then do the rest of them. Hot air isolation and containment is the key.

If you really want to, measure the differential pressure between the box and outside. If it exceeds 0.5 psi, mount a squirrel cage blower with 20% more capacity than the miners total the suck the air through the miners and force it outside. If you put a VFD on that blower, you can actually set it to about -0.1. This is critical to improve the effectiveness of the radial fans on the miners. They'll last much longer that way. Don't worry about the fan energy. I've run this test a couple times and found the fan energy used by the exhaust fan is negated by the fan energy reduction in all the miners. Then, the miner chips do run cooler so they burn less energy. It'll actually improve your site efficiency.

Sheet rock is better than wood as it's really hard to burn. Your noise level will go way down too. You could even add a layer of insulation but I don't think you'll need it.

Too many mining farms try to throw the air around the room. Too many data centers do too. My data centers all have air to Freon heat exchangers on the back doors of each cabinet.

Think about how the shed solution isolates the hot and cool air. This is doing the same thing.


 OCP cabinets tend to have a lot higher power density that most common 19" rackmount based data centers allow.
 Most data centers do NOT allow 20KW per cabinet - most I've worked with you're lucky if you have 10 kw available.
 Your 32 kw per cabinet data center is the EXCEPTION, not the norm (though not uncommon in OCP usage).

 I've not actually bought any OCP gear, but I keep being tempted by some surplus Quanta Windmill and Winterfell servers/racks, so I have SOME knowleage of the subject and the relatively high power/performance density of OCP vs most "standard" rack-mount servers.

 Sheet rock / drywall is generaly fire rated, not just "hard to burn" - how many hours of fire rating tends to vary with the thickness but I've seen 6 hour ratings on some THICK sheets of the stuff.
 Insulation would probably be a waste, given the airflow level and that drywall itself insulates some.

 New data centers are moving away from the entire "A/C to cool with" concept due to the costs - the Yahoo "Chicken Coop" design is a lot closer to what most large data centers are doing today, as it's a TON more efficient than traditional designs.
 Or look at the GigaWatt "shed" design, which seems to be a lower-tech variant intended to be able to deal with stuff OTHER THAN rack-mounted gear (and seems to be similar to what Bitmain uses in it's big farm).


 

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January 14, 2018, 05:29:30 AM
 #19

It depends on what kind of data center you're running. My typical OCP cabinets are running 20kW, I have routers running 30kW. My cabinets are only 2' wide so I'd bet the power density is 2-3X.

I just designed one room to run 9.6MW IT load, nominal, up to 32kW per 2' cabinet. These little S9s at 1.3kW aren't so bad.

I'd say that every mining farm I've seen so far is completely missing the idea.

Looking at your pictures I'd suggest you simply isolate the exhaust of all the miners from the intake. I mean a physical barrier which prohibits the hot air from mixing with the cool air. I'd just build a box that contains all the hot air which will go out that convenient window. Place your shelves against the outside off the box, set the miner on the shelf so that the exhaust fan touches the wood or better yet sheet rock, use a pencil to outline the location of the exhaust fan, cut a hole to stick the fan through the hole and turn it on. Then do the rest of them. Hot air isolation and containment is the key.

If you really want to, measure the differential pressure between the box and outside. If it exceeds 0.5 psi, mount a squirrel cage blower with 20% more capacity than the miners total the suck the air through the miners and force it outside. If you put a VFD on that blower, you can actually set it to about -0.1. This is critical to improve the effectiveness of the radial fans on the miners. They'll last much longer that way. Don't worry about the fan energy. I've run this test a couple times and found the fan energy used by the exhaust fan is negated by the fan energy reduction in all the miners. Then, the miner chips do run cooler so they burn less energy. It'll actually improve your site efficiency.

Sheet rock is better than wood as it's really hard to burn. Your noise level will go way down too. You could even add a layer of insulation but I don't think you'll need it.

Too many mining farms try to throw the air around the room. Too many data centers do too. My data centers all have air to Freon heat exchangers on the back doors of each cabinet.

Think about how the shed solution isolates the hot and cool air. This is doing the same thing.


 OCP cabinets tend to have a lot higher power density that most common 19" rackmount based data centers allow.
 Most data centers do NOT allow 20KW per cabinet - most I've worked with you're lucky if you have 10 kw available.
 Your 32 kw per cabinet data center is the EXCEPTION, not the norm (though not uncommon in OCP usage).

 I've not actually bought any OCP gear, but I keep being tempted by some surplus Quanta Windmill and Winterfell servers/racks, so I have SOME knowleage of the subject and the relatively high power/performance density of OCP vs most "standard" rack-mount servers.

 Sheet rock / drywall is generaly fire rated, not just "hard to burn" - how many hours of fire rating tends to vary with the thickness but I've seen 6 hour ratings on some THICK sheets of the stuff.
 Insulation would probably be a waste, given the airflow level and that drywall itself insulates some.

 New data centers are moving away from the entire "A/C to cool with" concept due to the costs - the Yahoo "Chicken Coop" design is a lot closer to what most large data centers are doing today, as it's a TON more efficient than traditional designs.
 Or look at the GigaWatt "shed" design, which seems to be a lower-tech variant intended to be able to deal with stuff OTHER THAN rack-mounted gear (and seems to be similar to what Bitmain uses in it's big farm).


My 19" rack mount cabinets are running 10-30kW depending on how populated the chassis are. My OCPs are running 14-20kW, they are design limited to 24kW so technically they cannot reach a Cisco 9922 running full out.

About sheet rock, regular sheet rock is NOT Fire-Rated, but the Type X is Fire-Rated, but not Fireproof.
Type X is by no means 100% fireproof; simply it is drywall that will stand up against flame longer than regular drywall.  Also, just because an area is rocked in Type X does not ensure fire safety.  Fire can still find other avenues to travel:  vents, doors, gaps, etc.  

If a conventional 1/2" thick sheet of drywall will stand up to 30 minutes of fire, then the added 1/8" found in the Type X drywall, along with its other properties, will increase your margin of safety another 30 minutes. For this reason, fire-rated drywall is sometimes called one hour fire wallboard.

I mentioned you could add insulation. There will be a lot of heat in this containment area. If the sheet rock feels warm to the touch, there is a bit of heat conduction between the hot area and the cool area. You may also want to reduce noise further. Insulation is really cheap for such a small project.

Yahoo experimented with the Chicken Coop. They build hyper scale centers. What many have learned is that you can certainly reduce or even eliminate cooling system energy but that doesn't mean you'll save total energy. Actually, IT load increases with temperature as the CPU and transport interface components behave this way. The headline was great, near unity PUE but alas, they forgot to mention the IT load increase.

I was just in Facebook's newest data center in Fort Worth, it's nothing but OCP, it's not a chicken coop. Good ole mechanical cooling with a very efficient environmental air exchange system used when conditions allow. Cold aisle temps are 80F which I found a bit uncomfortable. It's 35MW IT per building with 3 buildings in the plan which is more than large.

I actually tour many new data centers every year, and speak on the subject at data center engineering conferences. Nearly all new builds are putting in Liebert DSE units with pumped refrigerant economizers. I use some of them too but usually only for a redundancy layer. Our study showed we can actually use less total energy with efficient cooling systems to optimize for server intake air temp of 72F. It also makes for a much more comfortable room to work in.

Over the years I think I've seen 25ish sites with direct outdoor air exchange systems intended to be used most nights and winters. Of all those systems, I've only seen two that are still actually used. One of them is my customer, the other at Cisco, but both of those actually yield much less time in eco mode than we thought they would. Every other one was disabled a long time ago.

Oh, and if it's making noise, it took energy to do that. When you go into a loud data center, I can guarantee it is inefficient. All mine are cold everywhere and quiet enough so I can talk to a small group of people in a normal voice. All noise is wasted energy.

apologies for the tangent topics
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January 14, 2018, 09:13:08 AM
 #20

The Chicken Coop shows a major overall efficiency gain though versus conventional centers - otherwise they would have stopped building them.
The servers use a LITTLE more power when running warmer, but not nearly as much as A/C was using to cool with.

I've never seen sheet rock that was not fire rated - didn't know it existed.
I do know the difference between "fire rated" and "fireproof" - hour(s) vs more-or-less forever. 9-)
I don't work construction, but I've worked with enough such folks and had enough family that did that I can sometimes hum the tune (electrician excepted, I HAVE worked as a union-trained journeyman electrician in the past).
Perhaps the suppliers I've worked with didn't bother with the non-fire-rated stuff due to "local area" code requirements.
I've also worked with concrete board - nice stuff in it's way but kind of a pain to make holes in, and still "fire rated" not "fireproof".

80F is what I target for my intake "cool aisle" - if you can dress for it it's comfortable, but if you have to wear "business casual" it's definitely on the warm side.

I'm not going to ask if you've ever encountered "thermal runaway". 9-)



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