HashFast launches sales of the Baby Jet

[dropt]

In fact it is the 25% - the other 75% goes to shareholders.

Unless things have changed, 40% goes to administration and 60% as dividends.  I'd have to read through their correspondence, but there was some question regarding the re-investment percentage coming out of the management's 40%, or the shareholder's 60%.   

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[1713263905]

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[HashFast]

Baby Jet product page updated just now:

• Wording changed from "Shipments begin October 20-30" to "Shipments anticipated to begin: October 20-30"
• The stock count just jumped around 100!  
• New single chip mock-up image

Stock count jumping was either HF testing the shopping cart and using up sales 100 times, or upping their first batch from 550 to 650 units...

Stock count: it's related to the testing scenario you mention.

There was a period where the website shop was live but hidden, and we were simultaneously doing manual sales. I reduced the "inventory" available online so that we had a pool for manual sales. Didn't want to risk selling the same units twice. Now we've put those units back in the pool.

So to confirm: We are selling a total of 550 Baby Jets.

Amy Woodward
VP Engineering
HashFast

Hi Everyone,

In addition to what Amy is saying above, the inventory will also fluctuate at times as we close out orders from buyers who started the purchase process while we were experiencing technical difficulties, and later decline to complete the purchase.  We have been trying to reach out to everyone via phone and email that attempted a purchase last week.

Our intent is be as transparent as possible, and we will continue to do our best towards this goal.

John
HashFast.com

[HashFast]

Delivery to Bulgaria (EU Country). Really???

Holy Moses, so that's how they get some extra money by overcharging on shipping? There's no way shipping to EU costs $750 .

Hi Everyone,

Regarding shipping, we have not yet secured rates that we are happy with. We are working with two international air freight companies to secure better rates. Once we complete this process, we will absolutely refund the difference in shipping costs back to our customers.

John
HashFast.com

[klee]

In fact it is the 25% - the other 75% goes to shareholders.

Unless things have changed, 40% goes to administration and 60% as dividends.  I'd have to read through their correspondence, but there was some question regarding the re-investment percentage coming out of the management's 40%, or the shareholder's 60%.   

"The IceDrill mine, at launch, will be running with 500 Terahashes (500,000 Gigahashes) of power. This asset comprises 60% of the mine’s ongoing profits (meaning roughly 100% of 300 TH power). However, this asset is NOT tied to a specific hashrate. Rather, it is tied to a specific percentage of IceDrill profits, meaning that as the mine grows in hash power, so too do the profits earned by the shares. While one share will be worth roughly 10 Mhash of mining power upon launch, it will be worth more hash power over time as the mine grows.

In order to grow, 75% of the profit from each shares share will be paid out to the investor, and the remaining 25% will be reinvested in additional mining capacity on a continual basis. Thus, the mine will grow substantially over time to maintain the most efficient market share."

So 60% of profits will go back to the 'company' of which 75% to dividends and 25% for growth, right?

[dropt]

"The IceDrill mine, at launch, will be running with 500 Terahashes (500,000 Gigahashes) of power. This asset comprises 60% of the mine’s ongoing profits (meaning roughly 100% of 300 TH power). However, this asset is NOT tied to a specific hashrate. Rather, it is tied to a specific percentage of IceDrill profits, meaning that as the mine grows in hash power, so too do the profits earned by the shares. While one share will be worth roughly 10 Mhash of mining power upon launch, it will be worth more hash power over time as the mine grows.

In order to grow, 75% of the profit from each shares share will be paid out to the investor, and the remaining 25% will be reinvested in additional mining capacity on a continual basis. Thus, the mine will grow substantially over time to maintain the most efficient market share."

So 60% of profits will go back to the 'company' of which 75% to dividends and 25% for growth, right?

The whole thing is worded such that trying to interpret it literally gives me a headache.

  I suppose it all depends on how we look at it.  They advertise a 500TH mine, of which, as an investor you're only actually buying into 300TH.  So, of this 300TH, 75% of each share submitted is returned to the investor as dividend, yes.

  If you interpret IceDrill as being the total farm: 500TH, the investor is entitled to 45% of the earnings and forefeits 15% as re-investment.   Effectively, 55% (that's 275TH) is going straight to the corporation. 

[BenTuras]

Code:

public investors         60% A
private investors         40% B

dividend                 75% C
reinvest                 25% D

   
The profit should then be split between:

Code:

running cost                     10.0%
public investor dividend 40.5% A*C*(100-cost)/100
private investor dividend        27.0% B*C*(100-cost)/100

reinvest                 22.5% D*(100-cost)/100

[AussieHash]

Is it documented that the private investors pay 25% reinvestment ?

[BenTuras]

Is it documented that the private investors pay 25% reinvestment ?

Good question!
Which I'll answer (correct me if I am wrong):

Quote from https://bitfunder.com/asset/IceDrill.ASIC:
So, for every 100 BitCoin that we mine (with the ENTIRE mine capacity going forward, not only 300Th), minus cost (say 10), we would distribute 67.5 to shareholders and keep 22.5 to expand the mining capacity of the mine.

So yes, every investor, private or public, will see 25% being reinvested.

What was missing in my calculation is the cost that is in the quote. I added the cost.

[iCEBREAKER]

All of this is too hideously complex to explain in mere words!   

We need the pros at Visual Capitalist to whip up some slick graphics.   

[klee]

Code:

public investors         60% A
private investors         40% B

dividend                 75% C
reinvest                 25% D

   
The profit should then be split between:

Code:

running cost                     10.0%
public investor dividend 40.5% A*C*(100-cost)/100
private investor dividend        27.0% B*C*(100-cost)/100

reinvest                 22.5% D*(100-cost)/100

Sorry for being slow but I don't understand where do 40.5 and 27% come from!
Thanks in advance.

[bitkoof]

System Specs
 - 1 HashFast Golden Nonce (GN) Chip

Childish, I know - but this made me laugh.

[bbxx]

Code:

public investors         60% A
private investors         40% B

dividend                 75% C
reinvest                 25% D

   
The profit should then be split between:

Code:

running cost                     10.0%
public investor dividend 40.5% A*C*(100-cost)/100
private investor dividend        27.0% B*C*(100-cost)/100

reinvest                 22.5% D*(100-cost)/100

Sorry for being slow but I don't understand where do 40.5 and 27% come from!
Thanks in advance.

ok so buying/renting via icedrill will bring only 40.5% procent mined bitcoins...

lol

[BenTuras]

Code:

public investors         60% A
private investors         40% B

dividend                 75% C
reinvest                 25% D

   
The profit should then be split between:

Code:

running cost                     10.0%
public investor dividend 40.5% A*C*(100-cost)/100
private investor dividend        27.0% B*C*(100-cost)/100

reinvest                 22.5% D*(100-cost)/100

Sorry for being slow but I don't understand where do 40.5 and 27% come from!
Thanks in advance.

The formula I used is behind the resulting percentages !

40.5% : A*C*(100-cost)/100
The meaning of the letters is also there
A= 60% public investors
cost=running cost, 10%

[BenTuras]

Code:

public investors         60% A
public investor dividend 40.5% A*C*(100-cost)/100

ok so buying/renting via icedrill will bring only 40.5% procent mined bitcoins...

lol

I think what many don't realize, is that the public investor gets 40.5% of the whole operation(=100%),
while the public investor 'paid' for 60% of the whole operation.
That is, if the private investor paid the same for shares as the public investor did, and you can question that.

But suppose all shares were sold for the same amount:
Not 40.5% of your investment is 'returned', it's actually 40.5*100/60=67.5%

Please correct me if I am wrong!

[maqifrnswa]

Code:

public investors         60% A
private investors         40% B

dividend                 75% C
reinvest                 25% D

   
The profit should then be split between:

Code:

running cost                     10.0%
public investor dividend 40.5% A*C*(100-cost)/100
private investor dividend        27.0% B*C*(100-cost)/100

reinvest                 22.5% D*(100-cost)/100

Sorry for being slow but I don't understand where do 40.5 and 27% come from!
Thanks in advance.

ok so buying/renting via icedrill will bring only 40.5% procent mined bitcoins...

lol

public investors also own 60% of the reinvestment (supposedly) with the other 40% going to the private investors.

this IPO was horribly structured, and not well thought out - it's too bad, I wish they followed a normal start-up business capitalization model and not confused everyone with this complicated private/public and dividend/equity-reinvestment scheme.

According to the above numbers, 90% of the mined bitcoins (from your share) are returned to you. some are returned as BTC, and some are returned as increased equity.

[klee]

Code:

public investors         60% A
private investors         40% B

dividend                 75% C
reinvest                 25% D

   
The profit should then be split between:

Code:

running cost                     10.0%
public investor dividend 40.5% A*C*(100-cost)/100
private investor dividend        27.0% B*C*(100-cost)/100

reinvest                 22.5% D*(100-cost)/100

Sorry for being slow but I don't understand where do 40.5 and 27% come from!
Thanks in advance.

The formula I used is behind the resulting percentages !

40.5% : A*C*(100-cost)/100
The meaning of the letters is also there
A= 60% public investors
cost=running cost, 10%

Holy crap I thought they were part of the equations!! Too hot today here, no clear mind..

[DeathAndTaxes]

Shipping of what?  What are the dimensions, weight of shipping boxes? What is in them, bricks?

Please stop this scam immediately.

If someone wanted to run a scam not delivering the promised product wouldn't it make sense to have the shipping a better deal or maybe even offer free shipping for orders made within the first 30 days to encourage sales?

[Kouye]

If someone wanted to run a scam not delivering the promised product wouldn't it make sense to have the shipping a better deal or maybe even offer free shipping for orders made within the first 30 days to encourage sales?

It wouldn't, if they expected you to react that way. Obvious "mistakes" are a very good way to earn credibility (because of the exact same reason you posted this).

I'm not saying it's a scam, but....

They operate a site with NOT a single mention that you're pre-ordering.
They are stating in their TOS that no refund will be processed unless they send a written agreement to that refund, and have failed to reply to my question about this.
They are acting weird, paying a hero shill to praise for them.
They have 3+1=4 "official" threads running here instead of one.
They are maintaining confusion about their (inexistant) stock, even in the last thread, where they claim to "still have 300 units".
They were following a twitter account that shilled for them here, and that was deleted right after someone noticed it.
etc.

This might not be a scam.
But it's at least totally unacceptable marketing practises.

[SgtSpike]

If someone wanted to run a scam not delivering the promised product wouldn't it make sense to have the shipping a better deal or maybe even offer free shipping for orders made within the first 30 days to encourage sales?

It wouldn't, if they expected you to react that way. Obvious "mistakes" are a very good way to earn credibility (because of the exact same reason you posted this).

I'm not saying it's a scam, but....

They operate a site with NOT a single mention that you're pre-ordering.
They are stating in their TOS that no refund will be processed unless they send a written agreement to that refund, and have failed to reply to my question about this.
They are acting weird, paying a hero shill to praise for them.
They have 3+1=4 "official" threads running here instead of one.
They are maintaining confusion about their (inexistant) stock, even in the last thread, where they claim to "still have 300 units".
They were following a twitter account that shilled for them here, and that was deleted right after someone noticed it.
etc.

This might not be a scam.
But it's at least totally unacceptable marketing practises.

I'm with ya.  I ordered from BFL because they had already delivered FPGA's, thus I expected they would continue to deliver on future products.  Hashfast hasn't delivered anything.  They could up and run with everyone's millions in BTC at any moment, and what recourse would you have?

[Ytterbium]

I'm with ya.  I ordered from BFL because they had already delivered FPGA's, thus I expected they would continue to deliver on future products.  Hashfast hasn't delivered anything.  They could up and run with everyone's millions in BTC at any moment, and what recourse would you have?

Well, i don't think that's going to happen.  This is an American company, they're not out of reach of US Law. I'd worry about taking legal action in China, for example but here - but I doubt an American company could get away with just stealing millions of dollars. Same thing with KnC in Sweeden.

However, Simply being late with a product isn't a crime. BFL being late isn't a crime, although all the lies they told along the way might cause it to veer into fraud. HashFast isn't even allowing refunds, so they have no reason to lie if they are late.

That's the biggest risk I think, that they might be late. I think they should man up and allow people to cancel their orders if the competition shows up with lower prices.  I understand why that would be a risk for them, but the fact is that with this arrangement - customer pays for upfront NRE, while the company gets to profit off more chip runs - means that as much of the risk as possible should be born by the supplier.

That said, the Miner protection plan is a step in the right direction, IMO. It makes it a little less risky. If HashFast was up front with how many chips they plan to sell (ex 'miner protection') that could make it an even better deal.  That's the main reason I went with Avalon instead of BFL, and it worked out for me.

But, if they're delayed until December 31st, then even 4x the chips might not help people recover their ROI.  At the same time, though it basically proves that their individual, marginal chip cost must be less then 1/5th their price. It has to be less then $2.8/Gh/s.