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January 07, 2018, 07:58:25 PM
 #1

Hi everyone,
i'm wondering if there are real reason to wait few months for the new trezor T instead to buy right now the old trezor.

What are the real improvement in security? Can we really say that the new one in safer?

Thanks in advance.

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January 08, 2018, 07:33:50 PM
 #2

mmmmm i don't believe that nobody knows the answer.

I know that a lot of people are looking for which hwwallet buy: now we can choose not only between ledger or trezor, but also between trezor or trezor t.

So: is a good idea to wait?

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January 08, 2018, 07:44:23 PM
 #3

I would say that depends on what you are looking for, if you prefer a full touchscreen device or if you like the design of the old Trezor, etc...

Do you only plan on storing Bitcoin and the already supported altcoins? Or do you think you may diversify your holdings in the future?
Quote
TREZOR One (original) will not be discontinued. It will be supported alongside the TREZOT T. But:
TREZOR T has a different software stack, meaning coin integrations will be easier on the T. Some of which can be backported into the TREZOR One.

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January 08, 2018, 08:46:34 PM
 #4

What are the real improvement in security?
The only supposed improvement in security that I can find is the fact that you don't have to enter the PIN number or seed into the computer, but given the advanced recovery process and the fact that the numbers in the PIN were obscured and scrambled by the original TREZOR, I don't consider it to be significant.

IMO, the new TREZOR is mainly a UI upgrade.  That's fine, but it won't be enough for me to make the switch.

It could be that they end up supporting the new device better or they cease updates to the old TREZOR at some point, at which point maybe the new one would be safer.

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January 08, 2018, 08:52:52 PM
 #5

Hi everyone,
i'm wondering if there are real reason to wait few months for the new trezor T instead to buy right now the old trezor.

What are the real improvement in security? Can we really say that the new one in safer?

Thanks in advance.
Yes, the new Trezor T is sort of safer than the old trezor due to the advanced functions and also coin support features which was said to be included. Meanwhile, my own believe is that they are upgrading/improving their wallet in other to be a marketable and secure wallet provider.



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January 08, 2018, 09:06:19 PM
 #6

Hi everyone,
i'm wondering if there are real reason to wait few months for the new trezor T instead to buy right now the old trezor.

What are the real improvement in security? Can we really say that the new one in safer?

Thanks in advance.
Yes, the new Trezor T is sort of safer than the old trezor due to the advanced functions and also coin support features which was said to be included. Meanwhile, my own believe is that they are upgrading/improving their wallet in other to be a marketable and secure wallet provider.

well, which is this advanced functions? i mean, in particular. Because i can't find anything about that. I can only read on official site "All confidential data, including the PIN, are entered exclusively through the screen. USB communications are enabled only after authentication"

What are the risk whit the old trezor that doesn't have this function?

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January 08, 2018, 09:12:49 PM
 #7

thank you both for you answers!

What are the real improvement in security?
The only supposed improvement in security that I can find is the fact that you don't have to enter the PIN number or seed into the computer, but given the advanced recovery process and the fact that the numbers in the PIN were obscured and scrambled by the original TREZOR, I don't consider it to be significant.

IMO, the new TREZOR is mainly a UI upgrade.  That's fine, but it won't be enough for me to make the switch.

It could be that they end up supporting the new device better or they cease updates to the old TREZOR at some point, at which point maybe the new one would be safer.

i'm sorry, i'm not sure to have understood right. With the new trezor you don't have to enter the PIN number or seed into the computer. So you enter seed/pin only in your trezor.
But how the old trezor works? Which is the difference?

@TryNinja: old trezor right now support btc and its forks, erc20 token, eth and nem. Basically 95% of all of my crypto. Yes, in the future surely things may change, but most important thing is for me to keep safe my btc and eth because they will be the most important part of my portfolio..

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January 08, 2018, 11:41:28 PM
 #8

i'm sorry, i'm not sure to have understood right. With the new trezor you don't have to enter the PIN number or seed into the computer. So you enter seed/pin only in your trezor.
But how the old trezor works? Which is the difference?
With Trezor T, it is going to have a touchscreen (and a larger screen), so you can simply tap on the screen of the device to enter required input... such as your PIN, or the seed words if you are restoring your seed to the device.

With a Trezor "One" (the original Trezor), all the data input was done using your mouse/keyboard on your PC.


This means the security of the Trezor T is marginally better than the Trezor One as it removes the possibility of a keylogger on your PC capturing your seed words when you type them in... however, it should be noted that if you used the "advanced recovery" options for the Trezor One, that this also effectively removed the possibility of a keylogger anyway... as it used a "scrambled" keypad on your device and you clicked boxes on your PC screen with the mouse... you didn't need to type anything in. It is just a bit tedious.

You can see a very clear video of how this works here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xogtx4IPVSQ

So, in this case, it isn't so much an increase in security... but an increase in convenience... Whether or not the prospect of a colour/touchscreen (and likely better altcoin support moving forward) is really worth the extra $$$ is something that each user will need to decide for themselves.

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January 09, 2018, 09:13:07 AM
 #9

i'm sorry, i'm not sure to have understood right. With the new trezor you don't have to enter the PIN number or seed into the computer. So you enter seed/pin only in your trezor.
But how the old trezor works? Which is the difference?
With Trezor T, it is going to have a touchscreen (and a larger screen), so you can simply tap on the screen of the device to enter required input... such as your PIN, or the seed words if you are restoring your seed to the device.

With a Trezor "One" (the original Trezor), all the data input was done using your mouse/keyboard on your PC.


This means the security of the Trezor T is marginally better than the Trezor One as it removes the possibility of a keylogger on your PC capturing your seed words when you type them in... however, it should be noted that if you used the "advanced recovery" options for the Trezor One, that this also effectively removed the possibility of a keylogger anyway... as it used a "scrambled" keypad on your device and you clicked boxes on your PC screen with the mouse... you didn't need to type anything in. It is just a bit tedious.

You can see a very clear video of how this works here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xogtx4IPVSQ

So, in this case, it isn't so much an increase in security... but an increase in convenience... Whether or not the prospect of a colour/touchscreen (and likely better altcoin support moving forward) is really worth the extra $$$ is something that each user will need to decide for themselves.


thank you! now is really clear!

Just an other question: if i make an update of firmware of my trezor or something like that, for example to improve security or to add on other coin, i need to restoring my seed on trezor?

For me the problem isn't the extra money, but the months i have to wait before i can have the new trezor!

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January 10, 2018, 03:48:33 AM
 #10

Just an other question: if i make an update of firmware of my trezor or something like that, for example to improve security or to add on other coin, i need to restoring my seed on trezor?
As with a lot of things, the answer is... maybe Tongue

I've done firmware updates that didn't require the seed to be restored... and I've done firmware updates that didn't go so well and DID require the seed to be restored... This is why they say "Don't update the firmware unless you have the seed" Wink

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January 10, 2018, 04:20:35 AM
 #11

....
For me the problem isn't the extra money, but the months i have to wait before i can have the new trezor!

I would recommend going ahead and getting one of the proven design by Trezor on the market now. Really this is more an issue of what gadget is rock solid, bug free and hack proof that you can stash away and pull out a couple years later and have it work. Or a gadget that you can use regardless of a computer host that MAY be insecure.

There is known capability of the existing Trezor in these respects. May I suggest that this is the type of product you don't want to get the first units off the production line, but six or twelve months later, to buy into?
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January 10, 2018, 08:20:35 AM
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Just an other question: if i make an update of firmware of my trezor or something like that, for example to improve security or to add on other coin, i need to restoring my seed on trezor?
As with a lot of things, the answer is... maybe Tongue

I've done firmware updates that didn't require the seed to be restored... and I've done firmware updates that didn't go so well and DID require the seed to be restored... This is why they say "Don't update the firmware unless you have the seed" Wink

well, anyways, i've seen the video and it seems pretty safe for me.
And i think that even in the worst case scenario, with your seed is impossible to lose your money, correct?

But if you have, i don't know, 5 coins, you have to restore 5 seeds?

@Spendulus: yes, what you say sound good to me. I wasn't thinking about that!

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January 10, 2018, 09:15:47 AM
 #13

But if you have, i don't know, 5 coins, you have to restore 5 seeds?
No, the private keys and addresses for ALL coins are derived from the same seed. You only have to restore one seed and it will restore all the coins in your hardware wallet.

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January 10, 2018, 11:44:50 AM
 #14

But if you have, i don't know, 5 coins, you have to restore 5 seeds?
No, the private keys and addresses for ALL coins are derived from the same seed. You only have to restore one seed and it will restore all the coins in your hardware wallet.

azz, isn't that risky?
my btc, my eth, my bcc, even my token, all associated to only a seed?

only way to separate different coin is to use a passphrase...correct?

thank you again for your help!

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January 10, 2018, 06:36:46 PM
 #15

azz, isn't that risky?
my btc, my eth, my bcc, even my token, all associated to only a seed?
No more risky than having a bunch of different seeds for each coin... and certainly more convenient. There is a reason why it is repeated over and over and over that you need to safely and securely backup and store your seed. Pretty much all "multicoin" wallets use this method.


Quote
only way to separate different coin is to use a passphrase...correct?
No, the coins are separated by different "derivation paths" as per BIP44. If you have a look here: https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

Generate a random seed... then click the BIP44 tab... then try changing the coin type at the top. You'll see that all the different coins use different derivation paths... so they all generate different private keys/addresses, but from the same seed.

Hardware wallets like Trezor and Ledger Nano S use this functionality to be able to provide support for multiple coins.

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January 10, 2018, 09:14:35 PM
 #16

azz, isn't that risky?
my btc, my eth, my bcc, even my token, all associated to only a seed?
No more risky than having a bunch of different seeds for each coin... and certainly more convenient. There is a reason why it is repeated over and over and over that you need to safely and securely backup and store your seed. Pretty much all "multicoin" wallets use this method.


Quote
only way to separate different coin is to use a passphrase...correct?
No, the coins are separated by different "derivation paths" as per BIP44. If you have a look here: https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

Generate a random seed... then click the BIP44 tab... then try changing the coin type at the top. You'll see that all the different coins use different derivation paths... so they all generate different private keys/addresses, but from the same seed.

Hardware wallets like Trezor and Ledger Nano S use this functionality to be able to provide support for multiple coins.

you really know practically everything Cheesy

so, when import my seed to electrum, or to electron-cash or to myetherwallet i have to specify the correct seed for each coin...correct?

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January 11, 2018, 01:47:42 AM
 #17

Correct "derivation path". Although a lot of wallets should use the correct path by default. As far as I know, (I haven't tested EVERY coin)... Trezor adheres to the BIP39 and BIP44 standards... and SLIP44 which is a regsiter of the BIP44 coin types: https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0044.md

Which is kind of logical, since "satoshilabs" (who make the Trezor) are the ones maintaining the list! Wink

I know that by default, Electrum and ElectronCash will use the correct default derivation paths, not terribly familiar with MEW, but from my limited experience with it, it seems to use BIP39/44 as well.

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January 11, 2018, 11:04:48 AM
 #18

Correct "derivation path". Although a lot of wallets should use the correct path by default. As far as I know, (I haven't tested EVERY coin)... Trezor adheres to the BIP39 and BIP44 standards... and SLIP44 which is a regsiter of the BIP44 coin types: https://github.com/satoshilabs/slips/blob/master/slip-0044.md

Which is kind of logical, since "satoshilabs" (who make the Trezor) are the ones maintaining the list! Wink

I know that by default, Electrum and ElectronCash will use the correct default derivation paths, not terribly familiar with MEW, but from my limited experience with it, it seems to use BIP39/44 as well.

sorry, "derivation path", you're right. I've just wrote too fast Sad

well, anyway, i suppose that i choose a wrong derivation paths in the worst case scenario, i can't see my coins/token but i don't lose them..correct?

Thanks again and sorry for all these questions

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January 12, 2018, 09:22:22 PM
 #19

however, it should be noted that if you used the "advanced recovery" options for the Trezor One, that this also effectively removed the possibility of a keylogger anyway
The risk is actually almost entirely gone even when using Trezor's default recovery.    They point this out in their security threats page - with current technology, it's almost impossible to go through all possible orders of a 24 word seed.

IMO advanced recovery for current devices and use of a touch screen in the name of increasing security is paranoia.  It's basically just a UI upgrade.


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January 14, 2018, 11:34:48 AM
 #20

thank you everyone for your help.
I'm going to order an "old" trezor. Sadly i have to wait until february before have it.

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