What's going on with Cavirtex? 89 CAD per BTC?

[gog1]

The price on Cavirtex is high and low at the same time, (try buying 30 000$ worth)


Arbitrage anyone ?

With the current orderbook there is ~448$ in bitcoin to be made from moving 15 000$ around (160btc).

1. By the time the money get there the opportunity may be lost.

2. You take the risk the wire transfer get stuck or having your bank account shut down.

3. You increase the risk of having Canada Revenue Agency make some random audit onto you.

4. You pay fees both ways on the exchanges and you pay the fees of a wire transfer. Buying 160b = 2.4B in fees on cavirtex.   selling 155B on bitstamp = ~0.65b Total 2.4+0.65b + 40$ = ~345$.  You now only have ~103$ to gain.

Would you risk #1 2 and 3 for ~100$ ?

Cavirtex's owner would be the one benefiting the most (directly and indirectly) from doing this arbitrage but he doesn't, even with 1.5% less in fees to pay.

Conclusion : Lowering the fees from 3% to 1.5% didn't do much to increase liquidity. Unless Cavirtex owner start doing arbitrage himself he should use the maker-taker approach to attract liquidity providers. http://www.marketswiki.com/mwiki/Maker-taker

well said!

[1714806876]

1714806876

[hacknoid]

You know, with the value difference between Virtex and Bitstamp (what BitPay prices itself against), there is really good opportunity for Canadians to buy something from places like the Bitcoinstore if you convert fiat to BTC and then buy with BTC.

For example, I was looking at this item:
http://www.amazon.ca/Gwhdms52-Wl-Matrix-1080p-100ft/dp/B00CR0LCXK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376957262&sr=8-1&keywords=GWHDMS52
I can only see it for about CAD$407 on Amazon.

However, on Bitcoinstore (https://www.bitcoinstore.com/n-2283990.html) its US$322, or 3.1364 BTC.  Those same BTC right now at Virtex would cost me CAD$93.59 each, or a total of CAD$293.53, a savings of almost 28%!

... unfortunately I don't have cash there now.  Time to do a deposit!

Anyways, just something to note if you are looking to buy.  Opportunities like this may as well be taken advantage of!

[freedomno1]

You know, with the value difference between Virtex and Bitstamp (what BitPay prices itself against), there is really good opportunity for Canadians to buy something from places like the Bitcoinstore if you convert fiat to BTC and then buy with BTC.

For example, I was looking at this item:
http://www.amazon.ca/Gwhdms52-Wl-Matrix-1080p-100ft/dp/B00CR0LCXK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1376957262&sr=8-1&keywords=GWHDMS52
I can only see it for about CAD$407 on Amazon.

However, on Bitcoinstore (https://www.bitcoinstore.com/n-2283990.html) its US$322, or 3.1364 BTC.  Those same BTC right now at Virtex would cost me CAD$93.59 each, or a total of CAD$293.53, a savings of almost 28%!

... unfortunately I don't have cash there now.  Time to do a deposit!

Anyways, just something to note if you are looking to buy.  Opportunities like this may as well be taken advantage of!

I've been buying stuff from the bitcoinstore recently they do a good service the only issue is First Class Shipping is the cheapest method to send goods to Canada

But definitely saves you cash on larger purchases even considering reselling the damn things

Watched the expose on marketplace and saw some things have ridiculous premiums added to them not that I wasn't aware just geez some things.

[JimboToronto]

My brother organized the Nathan Philips Satoshi Square, he said about 30 people showed up (including a bitcoin startup that came from Waterloo!). Good times. Come to the next one!

Cool. I was hoping there'd be another one soon. Any date set yet? I was out of town for the last one. It pissed me off because I really wanted to be part of an historic event.

I'm curious what prices were like compared to other markets. Also were there any substantial trades (1000s of $$) or just a coin or two, here and there? Do I bring a pocket full of brownies?

I see someone else bumped this thread, so I'll bump my question.

ChrisWilmer or anyone else, what were volumes and prices like at Nathan Philips Satoshi Square? Anyone know? Also, when's the next one?

[ehoffman]

What a good example of thread hijacking...

I was wondering what's up with caVirtex too, and was enjoying the thread until it started diverging at the bottom of the first page... 

Stay on topic guys...

As for wtf is going on with caVirtex, I'm wondering if it will 'pass' and eventually be more in line with Gox.  It would be a good time to buy then!  But the reason may just be, as said earlier in the thread, that people are selling their coins in Canada.  Mining has got unprofitable.  Since electricity is cheap, it took more time for people to switch off.  And with the 30 degree C and above, it's a waste of energy.  At least, during winter, that excess energy is re-used to heat up the home/apartment, and there's effectively zero loss (what's consumed for the rig is saved in heating cost).

Another reasons may also be Canadian laws.  With a lot of uncertainties, people may be slowly cashing in.

[ArticMine]

Virtex has traded for most of the time below MTGox, and this is to a large part due to the lets heat the home/apartment during winter with the mining rig. Yes there have been exceptions such as this spring but over time the simple reality that Bitcoin mining is more cost effective in Canada than in most other parts of the world will keep prices on Virtex somewhat depressed. This however does not explain the current spreads that are way more than the historical averages, especially during the summer.

1) A more pronounced MTGox - Bitstamp scenario with Canadian buying on MTGox and selling on Virtex. Granted that this is even more crazy than those who are selling on Bitstamp after buying on MTGox, but from the perspective on someone in Canada once "burned" in Japan may think twice about trying their luck in Slovenia
2) Virtex has eliminated cash deposits and added a 1%+0.25 CAD fee for bill-pay deposits when they changed payment providers. So it is now more difficult and expensive to get funds into Virtex. Kind of like a minor version of MTGox in reverse.

[byronbb]

What a good example of thread hijacking...

I was wondering what's up with caVirtex too, and was enjoying the thread until it started diverging at the bottom of the first page... 

Stay on topic guys...

As for wtf is going on with caVirtex, I'm wondering if it will 'pass' and eventually be more in line with Gox.  It would be a good time to buy then!  But the reason may just be, as said earlier in the thread, that people are selling their coins in Canada.  Mining has got unprofitable.  Since electricity is cheap, it took more time for people to switch off.  And with the 30 degree C and above, it's a waste of energy.  At least, during winter, that excess energy is re-used to heat up the home/apartment, and there's effectively zero loss (what's consumed for the rig is saved in heating cost).

Another reasons may also be Canadian laws.  With a lot of uncertainties, people may be slowly cashing in.

As for laws I doubt there is anything the Canadian goverment is doing to stem bitcoin. Canada is agnostic towards sportsbetting, which has it's own problem of "moving assets", whereas the land of the free down south is definitely otherwise. A pro poker player/sportbettor in Canada pays ZERO tax!!!

[Kaiji]

It's funny no one goes there to purchase cheaper coins.

[ColdHardMetal]

A pro poker player/sportbettor in Canada pays ZERO tax!!!

No, a recreational player pays no tax. If you do it as a job you're taxed the same as any other person.

[removebeforeflight]

Great post about BTC purchases Bitcoinstore using Virtex as the exchange. Hadn't thought about that.

[freedomno1]

Great post about BTC purchases Bitcoinstore using Virtex as the exchange. Hadn't thought about that.

Thanks now we just need to convince them to let us use cheaper shipping methods so we can buy lower priced items as well 

[bitcoin carpenter]

What is the easiest and fastest way for us canadians to arb on other trading sites
I was thinking I would try bitstamp to see how long it takes for the money to arrive

[niko]

What is the easiest and fastest way for us canadians to arb on other trading sites
I was thinking I would try bitstamp to see how long it takes for the money to arrive

Obviously there are limits we are not aware of - account closures, USD correspondent banks, hidden costs, low liquidity, AML... The apparent opportunity sometime lasts for days, and it doesn't get arbitraged away. Don't think big boys wouldn't have done it the same moment it showed. Also, there was a months-long reversal recently - again, just sat there out of equilibrium for ever.

Unfortunately, people seldom share the problems of this kind publicly. The only way to learn is the hard and costly way. Good luck.