Have you ordered your HashFast Baby Jet yet?

[JohnyBigs]

blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.

You guys do realize that PayPal will hold/cancel your account for anythng btc related that they catch wind of it?

PaTrolling?

[1715376923]

1715376923

[1715376923]

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[1715376923]

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[Ytterbium]

b/c HF is going to be getting 400gh/s out of 1 chip vs. KNC needing 4 chips, right there, HF is going to have a significant production cost advantage.  so even if KNC does offer a MPP, the cost advantage will eventually grind them down.

That's not true. All that really matters is die size.  Whether you have 1 12x12mm chip, or 4 6x6mm chips, or 8 3x3mm chips, the amount of silicon used is the same.  In fact, it's actually slightly cheaper because you have less 'white space' around the edge of the wafer (remember, a wafer is a circular shape.  If you have a smaller chip, you use less of the wafer)

The other thing is the power draw.  More power in a die means more cooling and it becomes more difficult/complex.  Since KnC's chips are going to use less power per chip you can use a cheaper cooling system (in this case fans v.s. water cooling.)

It's possible HF's chip is actually more space efficient if they did a 'hand routed' design over a "standard cell" (which KnC used). If that's the case then production costs per chip may be lower.

However, all this talk about how HF's chip is soooo much more efficient then KnC's is a bit ridiculous. The package size doesn't tell you anything about the size of the chip. Unless you have insider information you have no way of knowing how efficient their chips are.

To be honest, it sounds kind of insane, total certainty about something you can't possibly know.  No one will know how big their die is until chips are released and someone actually cracks one open to get a look at the actual silicon.

Anyway, it doesn't even matter.  All that matters is what they charge for the chip.  If it costs HF $1/Gh/s and they sell it for $14, and it costs KnC $2/Gh/s and they sell it for $10, then KnC is a better deal .

Given HF's "miner protection plan" the chips must cost less then $2.8/Gh/s.

A lot of people seem really confused about the difference between the profits of the company making the chip and the profits of the actual customer.  Production cost won't make any difference at all until all the profits are wrung out and people are selling chips close to their production cost. (And by that time they'll be able to refine their design a couple of times as well)

Well staying back on topic, I just made an order for 12 Baby Jets with next day air. I hope to get them on time. I also have two ASIC SC Single pre-orders from 13 months ago from BFL. I hope to get them in 2 more weeks ™

Could end up like BFL 13 months later

no way.

I think it's possible they might be on time, it really depends on the company that's putting together the actual boxes. It's going to be much more of a challenge for them then KnC. With the Miner protection plan it's an OK deal I guess. At this point I still think LABCOIN shares are the best deal at the moment.

[gateway]

blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.

You guys do realize that PayPal will hold/cancel your account for anythng btc related that they catch wind of it?

Pahahahahahahahahaa

?

[gateway]

blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.

You guys do realize that PayPal will hold/cancel your account for anythng btc related that they catch wind of it?

PaTrolling?

?

[carlotech]

i have enough stress on this pre-orders thing. 

[Bitcoinorama]

blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.

You guys do realize that PayPal will hold/cancel your account for anythng btc related that they catch wind of it?

Pahahahahahahahahaa

?

What accounts are Paypal holding or cancelling for BTC related activity? Considering they've both become the payment processor for more than one Bitcoin related company, and have actively been looking at accepting BTC as a payment method themselves.

[cypherdoc]

blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.

You guys do realize that PayPal will hold/cancel your account for anythng btc related that they catch wind of it?

Pahahahahahahahahaa

?

What accounts are Paypal holding or cancelling for BTC related activity? Considering they've both become the payment processor for more than one Bitcoin related company, and have actively been looking at accepting BTC as a payment method themselves.

It happened to the company that built my gpu miners from back in 2011.

When paypal figured out they were selling bitcoin related stuff they stepped in and unilaterally canceled my order.

I'm actually very surprised that KNC had been allowed to push millions of USD'S thru paypal  like this. Makes me wonder what they've told them upfront.

Assuming the best that paypal knows what's going on, from Bitcoin's perspective as a payment system, this is fantastic news. It means that paypal has capitulated and has allowed their money grubbing selves to surface. Kudos to KNC for making that happen.

Otoh, if PayPal doesn't know what's going on, there indeed does exist the possibility of account freezing.

I'd put that at a very small risk at this point.

[Ytterbium]

It happened to the company that built my gpu miners from back in 2011.

When paypal figured out they were selling bitcoin related stuff they stepped in and unilaterally canceled my order.

I'm actually very surprised that KNC had been allowed to push millions of USD'S thru paypal  like this. Makes me wonder what they've told them upfront.

Assuming the best that paypal knows what's going on, from Bitcoin's perspective as a payment system, this is fantastic news. It means that paypal has capitulated and has allowed their money grubbing selves to surface. Kudos to KNC for making that happen.

Otoh, if PayPal doesn't know what's going on, there indeed does exist the possibility of account freezing.

I'd put that at a very small risk at this point.

They've changed their policies. 

[cypherdoc]

It happened to the company that built my gpu miners from back in 2011.

When paypal figured out they were selling bitcoin related stuff they stepped in and unilaterally canceled my order.

I'm actually very surprised that KNC had been allowed to push millions of USD'S thru paypal  like this. Makes me wonder what they've told them upfront.

Assuming the best that paypal knows what's going on, from Bitcoin's perspective as a payment system, this is fantastic news. It means that paypal has capitulated and has allowed their money grubbing selves to surface. Kudos to KNC for making that happen.

Otoh, if PayPal doesn't know what's going on, there indeed does exist the possibility of account freezing.

I'd put that at a very small risk at this point.

They've changed their policies. 

in what way, officially?

[arbitrage001]

Anyone here still believe there will be positive ROI even if they manage to deliver on time?

[jspielberg]

Anyone here still believe there will be positive ROI even if they manage to deliver on time?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272906.0
That is the idea behind the MPP.

[gateway]

It happened to the company that built my gpu miners from back in 2011.

When paypal figured out they were selling bitcoin related stuff they stepped in and unilaterally canceled my order.

I'm actually very surprised that KNC had been allowed to push millions of USD'S thru paypal  like this. Makes me wonder what they've told them upfront.

Assuming the best that paypal knows what's going on, from Bitcoin's perspective as a payment system, this is fantastic news. It means that paypal has capitulated and has allowed their money grubbing selves to surface. Kudos to KNC for making that happen.

Otoh, if PayPal doesn't know what's going on, there indeed does exist the possibility of account freezing.

I'd put that at a very small risk at this point.

They've changed their policies. 

Just search for paypal on the forum also their is an extensive thread on reddit about some issues anyhow.

[pmorici]

Anyone here still believe there will be positive ROI even if they manage to deliver on time?

I believe that the less people there are who believe there will be a positive ROI the more likely there is to be one.  I think there is some chance of coming close to breaking even in 90 days and if not there is the Miner Protection Plan.  At this point in the game no company will ever sell an ASIC miner with a slam dunk ROI because everyone would buy one at which point no one would make an ROI.

[crumbs]

Here's a fun Excel game:
1.  Collect the data on all the promised hashrate (hashrate already promised by all of the ASIC manufacturers¹ for near-term delivery).
2.  Create a worksheet projecting the total hashrate added to the network @ promised time.
3.  Create a worksheet projecting difficulty @ time given 1 & 2.
4.  
5.  Plausible difficulty projection.

1.  I'm tired of using quotes.  From now on, when i say "ASIC manufacturer," assume i mean "some guy on the interwebz who knows how to spell ASIC & promised to make a bunch of real good ones real soon in exchange for your monyz now."  In no way is the term used to suggest actual manufacture of ASICs. Just a figure of speech.  Now you know.

[Bitcoinorama]

It happened to the company that built my gpu miners from back in 2011.

When paypal figured out they were selling bitcoin related stuff they stepped in and unilaterally canceled my order.

I'm actually very surprised that KNC had been allowed to push millions of USD'S thru paypal  like this. Makes me wonder what they've told them upfront.

Assuming the best that paypal knows what's going on, from Bitcoin's perspective as a payment system, this is fantastic news. It means that paypal has capitulated and has allowed their money grubbing selves to surface. Kudos to KNC for making that happen.

Otoh, if PayPal doesn't know what's going on, there indeed does exist the possibility of account freezing.

I'd put that at a very small risk at this point.

They've changed their policies.  

Just search for paypal on the forum also their is an extensive thread on reddit about some issues anyhow.

Yeah, it's only resale of Butterfly Labs pre-orders i.e. vaporware on eBay from scammy sellers. People win listings, get fed up of waiting over Paypal's 45 days and demand a refund. By which point the seller has withdrawn money from Paypal and run off, so his account gets closed and Paypal foot the bill. Buyer's on eBay are trigger happy and trust sellers. Like on this forum people buy stuff without reading up;

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1iyzkg/if_you_get_caught_selling_bitcoin_hardware_on/

[Kuroth]

Too Much $$$$  For these..

[klee]

How many fucking topics do we need for HashFast?

+1

[jungle_dave]

Anyone here still believe there will be positive ROI even if they manage to deliver on time?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272906.0
That is the idea behind the MPP.

Depends on the price and demand for bitcoins. I would like to be an optimist as I have shares in HF and KnC equipment.
HF seems to me to be the only company addressing the ROI issue, maybe not perfectly but it looks like a step in the right direction and it would be nice to see other companies adopt similar policies.
If we have a difficulty of 250 million in December and BTC is trading at $300 (possible) then its profitable. Mining is a risk, if you don't like risk then don't mine.
 

[Beans]

blow me, BTC only payments haha, maybe if it had paypal I would take a risk free gamble.

You guys do realize that PayPal will hold/cancel your account for anythng btc related that they catch wind of it?

PaTrolling?

They froze mine for it.

[eve]

Not worth risks without guarantee on time delivery and credit cards payments option. No Pre Order and avoid pre order at all costs.