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Author Topic: History of United States Anti-Money Laundering Laws  (Read 6605 times)
TippingPoint
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August 18, 2013, 06:33:45 PM
 #21

The laws and potential new regulation and "guidance" are clearly a threat to the long term viability of virtual currencies

We are in complete agreement here.

I am new at this.  I am still learning.
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QuestionAuthority
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August 18, 2013, 07:06:57 PM
 #22

I thought this might fit here because AML and KYC laws are just another method of the US government spying on its citizens. The good news is that opinions are changing.

Quote
Pew reports that 56 percent of Americans don't feel that there are appropriate checks on NSA surveillance, and a whopping 70 percent think the government uses surveillance data collected on U.S. citizens for things other than investigating terrorism.

Source: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/28/1227187/-Americans-More-Concerned-About-Civil-Liberties-than-Terrorism-for-First-Time-Since-2004-Pew#

Carlton Banks
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August 18, 2013, 07:42:46 PM
 #23

Sorry. Just trying to maintain an intelligent conversation.

But my question remains:  how are you making a difference?

I'd condense it down to: doing, not talking. I regularly go a while never posting here, not just because other smart people here have got it covered and said what I was going to say anyway, but because I'm out in the physical world, taking as many different approaches to getting people thinking about all the issues related to the state our world is in. For instance, some people will never listen to an argument in favour of dissolving governments, others will never listen to the arguments about the corrupt monetary system, others don't want to hear about the truth about wars, or the politicisation of science, or the lies of organised religions. But you don't just give up on those people, there's always some conversation you can have that can enlighten all parties, in a variety of different ways; even experiences of talking to the totally intransigent are valuable as there's often some novel aspect to their dogma. If you want real specifics, then you're probably not as valuable in whatever activism you partake in as you assume, role playing tends towards this self-validating attitude where people like to put their own shortcomings beyond criticism ("you can't tell me I'm a bad neighbour for filling up your trashcan, I give money to the homeless!").

Making a difference is a full time effort of uplifting the consciousness of everyone and everything you come into contact with, in whatever way you see best. Be prepared to make mistakes, to acknowledge them, and keep learning. Can I go now, sir?

Vires in numeris
johnyj
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August 18, 2013, 09:09:04 PM
 #24

Money laundering is the process of making illegally-gained proceeds (i.e. "dirty money") appear legal (i.e. "clean").

By this definition, the FED is laundering money every day, since counterfeiting money (create money out of nothing) is illegal. They should be put into prison immediately!  Grin

Stephen Gornick
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August 18, 2013, 09:58:10 PM
 #25

Incidentally, the source:

 - http://www.fincen.gov/news_room/aml_history.html

td services
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August 18, 2013, 11:12:41 PM
 #26

That explains why the tone of the original post was promoting the activity. Glad to know it wasn't written by a member of this community.

I voted for Gary Johnson, since Ron Paul was unavailable. As Carlton suggested, there really was no difference between Obama and Romney, and neither are significantly different from the Bushes, Clintons, or McCain.
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August 18, 2013, 11:21:46 PM
 #27


So how do these "financial surveillance" laws and LE financial information dragnets not fall afoul of the 4th amendment?

BCB : would you like to post the fourth amendment with regards to financial privacy for everybody so we can see the history of those abuses? thanks.

BCB
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August 18, 2013, 11:28:58 PM
 #28

You sound like the expert on that. Why don't you.
Carlton Banks
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August 18, 2013, 11:43:42 PM
 #29


So how do these "financial surveillance" laws and LE financial information dragnets not fall afoul of the 4th amendment?


Many are aware that they contravene it entirely, just to collect personally attributable information without using it is a breach. This started so long ago though, the 16th amendment is not ratified, and is practiced in the very states that didn't ratify as well as those that did, it even contradicts the amendment that stipulates the barring of unapportioned taxation. The American constitution has been weakened so much that it's pretty much a non-functional relic, the descent into government by diktat began with the Federal Reserve in 1913. Orwell said it best: power is not a means to an end, it is an end in and of itself. There is no freedom except that which you grant for yourself, people that recognise that quality in Bitcoin should start applying the principle to their whole existence too, the world needs to take back consent from these commissars.

Vires in numeris
marcus_of_augustus
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August 18, 2013, 11:52:53 PM
 #30

You sound like the expert on that. Why don't you.

So, as a legal scholar, you basically agree that the Banking Secrecy Act has many aspects of it that are unconstitutional then?

(We need to frame the argument before we launch into it ...)

BCB
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August 19, 2013, 12:12:38 AM
 #31

You sound like the expert on that. Why don't you.

So, as a legal scholar, you basically agree that the Banking Secrecy Act has many aspects of it that are unconstitutional then?

(We need to frame the argument before we launch into it ...)

I'm not a legal scholar.

I'm not a lawyer.

I'm having a public dialogue about US anti - money laundering regulation as it relates to virtual currencies.

You are certainly welcome to outline elements of the BSA that you believe to be unconstitutional.  And until a court proves your point they remain law in the US regardless of what you think and  I for one plan to operate within those laws.
TippingPoint
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August 19, 2013, 12:22:06 AM
 #32

I am of the opinion that the Bitcoin process is incompatible with the
  • Bank Secrecy Act (1970)
  • Money Laundering Control Act (1986)
  • Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1988
  • Annunzio-Wylie Anti-Money Laundering Act (1992)
  • Money Laundering Suppression Act (1994)
  • Money Laundering and Financial Crimes Strategy Act (1998)
  • Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools to Restrict, Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 (USA PATRIOT Act),
    [Title III of the USA PATRIOT Act is referred to as the International Money Laundering Abatement and Financial Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001]
  • Intelligence Reform & Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004

as well as other related government initiatives (to protect us from evil), such as
  • The elimination of all currency denominations greater than $100
  • Mandatory reporting of wages data, and withholding
  • Searches and confiscation of "suspicious cash" by TSA (and other agencies)

We are witnessing the early sparring.


BCB
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BCJ


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August 19, 2013, 12:50:19 AM
 #33

TippingPoint

everyone has an opinion.

I don't disagree that there are civil liberty and privacy concerns will all the issues you enumerate. 

Regardless,  they remain the law.

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August 19, 2013, 01:11:09 AM
 #34

Informative post. Thanks.
TippingPoint
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August 19, 2013, 01:43:49 AM
 #35

This might be coming
  • Money Laundering, Cryptocurrency and Financial Crimes Strategy Act (2016)
marcus_of_augustus
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August 19, 2013, 01:56:53 AM
 #36

This might be coming
  • Money Laundering, Cryptocurrency and Financial Crimes Strategy Act (2016)

Whatever ... they are idiotic to think they can ever effectively legislate for Open Source code, particularly OS code that can transfer valuable bits.

If they want to be in the business of making the rules of this game they need to learn git, end of.

BCB
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August 19, 2013, 02:31:08 AM
 #37

This might be coming
  • Money Laundering, Cryptocurrency and Financial Crimes Strategy Act (2016)

Whatever ... they are idiotic to think they can ever effectively legislate for Open Source code, particularly OS code that can transfer valuable bits.

If they want to be in the business of making the rules of this game they need to learn git, end of.

huh??
Carlton Banks
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August 19, 2013, 12:16:05 PM
 #38

TippingPoint

everyone has an opinion.

I don't disagree that there are civil liberty and privacy concerns will all the issues you enumerate. 

Regardless,  they remain the law.



I understand that Adolf Hitler was in total compliance with German law when he invaded and murdered his way around Europe. It didn't magically transform those laws into moral behaviour, strangely, they were the total opposite. Legal != ethical.

Vires in numeris
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August 19, 2013, 10:36:29 PM
 #39

Everyone has an opinion, that's nice and we may also have different definitions of dirty money.
Drug money is generally seen as dirty money, but 100 years ago, cannabis and cocaine were perfectly legal, and sold freely in shops. No dirty money there.

In many places, gambling is illegal, and people from those places see Las Vegas as a shameful ring of dirty money factories.

Don't get me wrong, there's real dirty money coming from bank robberies and extortion, but there's also a lot of dirty money coming straight from the government.
TippingPoint
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August 19, 2013, 10:40:53 PM
 #40

This was the law.  Gold was dirty money.

Executive Order 6102 is an Executive Order signed on April 5, 1933, by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates within the continental United States". The order criminalized the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation.  They gave you less than 1 month to turn it in, under penalty of $10,000 and/or up to five to ten years imprisonment.  The Supreme Court upheld all seizures as constitutional, with only one justice dissenting.

This was the law until December 31, 1974.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

But they would never be able to do that with Bitcoin, because unlike gold, Bitcoins are used all over the planet.   Wink
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