Bitcoin Forum
March 28, 2024, 09:48:38 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 [38] 39 40 41 42 43 44 »
  Print  
Author Topic: BFL announces 28nm 600GH/S blade for $4680  (Read 40986 times)
PuertoLibre
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834
Merit: 1003


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 08:55:53 PM
 #741

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy-15.html#post54727
Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1711619318
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711619318

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711619318
Reply with quote  #2

1711619318
Report to moderator
1711619318
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711619318

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711619318
Reply with quote  #2

1711619318
Report to moderator
Xian01
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067


Christian Antkow


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 08:59:08 PM
Last edit: August 27, 2013, 09:09:10 PM by Xian01
 #742

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.



It looks like the old generation is now defunct. You can no longer order old BFL hardware. It has reach EOL (End of Life).

 Grand Theft: Butterfly Labs unless they refund the money.

 Discontinued on April 4th 2013, but still continued with pre-orders for the same generation after that ? I give up.


 *shrugs*
PuertoLibre
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834
Merit: 1003


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:00:57 PM
 #743

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.



It looks like the old generation is now defunct. You can no longer order old BFL hardware. It has reach EOL (End of Life).

 Grand Theft: Butterfly Labs
I edited my post, I misinterpreted the terse response by jody.

It appears that the man tried to order two singles for the old rate. So Jody corrected it by putting him down for 1 order at the new rate, telling him he cannot get his money back in the process. Which obviously upset the customer.

Who is now demanding a refund. (The customer holds some blame...GOOD WORK JODY haha)

Edit: Who knows what is right or wrong in such a situation...honestly.

The snazzy guy trying to get the old rate, or the general manager who takes his money and gives him only one unit even though it is obviously not what he wanted....)
Xian01
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067


Christian Antkow


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:03:46 PM
 #744

It appears that the man tried to order two singles for the old rate. So Jody corrected it by putting him down for 1 order at the new rate, telling him he cannot get his money back in the process. Which obviously upset the customer.

Who is now demanding a refund. (The customer holds some blame...)

 What a mess in that house.
xstr8guy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1004


Glow Stick Dance!


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:05:42 PM
 #745

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.



It looks like the old generation is now defunct. You can no longer order old BFL hardware. It has reach EOL (End of Life).

  Grand Theft: Butterfly Labs unless they refund the money.

 Discontinued on April 4th 2013, but still continued with pre-orders for the same generation after that ? I give up.


She's referring to the 60GH/s Single which was discontinued in April and replaced with the 50GH/s Single.  You can still order that generation of products from BFL.

The guy you quoted was trying to pay for a legitimately discontinued item months after it was no longer available.
PuertoLibre
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834
Merit: 1003


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:07:32 PM
 #746

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.



It looks like the old generation is now defunct. You can no longer order old BFL hardware. It has reach EOL (End of Life).

  Grand Theft: Butterfly Labs unless they refund the money.

 Discontinued on April 4th 2013, but still continued with pre-orders for the same generation after that ? I give up.


She's referring to the 60GH/s Single which was discontinued in April and replaced with the 50GH/s Single.  You can still order that generation of products from BFL.

The guy you quoted was trying to pay for a legitimately discontinued item months after it was no longer available.
Already beat you to the punch. (notice the edits above)
Ytterbium
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
August 27, 2013, 09:07:56 PM
 #747


RoI is the fiction of the greedy.


No, it's entirely real.  Did you miss the part where I told you my batch 2 avalon has paid for itself, In bitcoin?  

I spent bitcoins I had because I wanted more bitcoins then I started with, and now, I have them.

Quote
If difficulty is 1,000,000,000 when you get your unit, simply REFUSE to sell at current prices that equal a loss.  If more and more people do this, the pirice WILL rise.

Which doesn't matter if your goal was to increase the number of bitcoins you have. Which I told you, is the reason I bought an ASIC. Otherwise I would have just kept my bitcoins.

Quote
On the other hand, you are saying it's quite alright to fuck over the customer if there is such an artificially high demand and you charge then $1,000,000 for less hash than a mini-rig costing $30k.  SURE you get them in hand NOW, but damn you got ass-raped in the process.

What the fuck are you talking about?  In may of 2011 $1 million dollars could have bought you more then 1.5TH/s. If you'd kept the money the bitcoins you mined would probably be worth $50-100 million dollars.  

The timing matters.  In fact, I think, but I haven't done the math - if you'd spent $1 million dollars on GPUs in June of 2012 instead of spending $30k on a BFL mini-rig, you'd actually have already made a profit by now, given the price increase.  That's the incredible irony of this.   The people who ordered Mini-rigs at that point in time would have been better off buying GPUs.

I agree people shouldn't buy block erupters expecting to get an ROI. I think most people just buy them for fun.

Quote
Quote
Of course it's BFL's fault. They had faulty information because BFL withheld that information. That was no way to know what effect the other orders would have because BFL chose not to share that information with them.  Which is why I decided not to order from them last year, and went with Avalon instead (I have a batch 2 that's already paid for itself in BTC)

Yet again, the greedy persons view of the world.

Again, are you smoking crack?

Why would someone want to just give free money to BFL in exchange for nothing of value? If they want to give to charity there are lot of worthwhile options.

If you're not a little greedy, there's no reason to care about bitcoin at all.  There's no reason to care about money. If they weren't greedy they would never have bought ASICs in the first place. Why would they?

Quote
BFL is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

BFL is damned because their mistakes are in the past.  There is nothing they can do now to rectify the situation, that's what happens.  That's how time works. Mistakes can't always be undone, and the damned stay damned.

Quote
If you listen to the shills on the ASICMiner posts, RoI != profit.  RoI is simply Return ON investment.  EVERY MINER HAS AN ROI, some just have a HIGHER RoI than others.  Using your flawed BTC argument, you'll never attain MORE BTC than you spend unless the network has reached saturation, so you should never again buy another new product.

I just told you. My Batch2 Avolon has already paid for itself, in BTC. And it certainly is true that no one should buy a pre-order at this point in time. Anyway people use "ROI" around here to mean positive ROI. If you make less then you pay it's a negative ROI.

Quote
can't take any more ignorance.

Ignorance of what?

You're just spewing total nonsense.

You claim to be defending BFL, and yet you say they fucked their customers. You admit their customers will never ROI, and that BFL never intended for them too.  You say the customers should have figured it out, and then you say their customers are only complaining because they're "greedy".  Except if they weren't greedy they never would have bought an ASIC in the first place.

That's like saying you shouldn't complain about getting fucked because the only reason it hurt is because you're too uptight for the giant dick to fit comfortably in your asshole.

You're not defending BFL, certainly not in a way that would make sense to the people they fucked.  We seem to agree on the facts, it's just you don't think there's anything wrong with ripping people off if they're "greedy" and stupid.

It's totally bizarre.

Ghrindy
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 47
Merit: 0


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:09:26 PM
 #748

I wouldn't be suprised, if BFL used a 3D-model (for a whopping $59) like this one:

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/nvidia-evga-gtx-570-3d-model/640684

and adjusted some details to create their Monarch-sketchup.

Note the same number of points at the center of the fan in this 3D model (4th pic in the link) and the BFL- Monarch sketchup.


my 0.02 btc
creativex
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:09:57 PM
 #749

Can't help but laugh at bfl still trying to put on a brave face. Really once you've used avalon I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with bfl. Whether they can be trusted to produce is not really a question of interest when they can't produce when they say they will. Until they have that trust they will always be in the shadows of avalon.

How are those batch #3 Avalons coming along?  Cheesy

Splendid thanks. They overclock like madmen...

I have results from 2 more batch3s, 2 batch2s, and 4 batch1s if you're interested.
I am interested? What is the thread link?

If you overclock a BFL unit "that much" you would probably burn a hole through the table, carpet and then the subfloor or basement foundation. Might even become a china syndrome. (Well if the chord lasts that long)

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.
How much power does it take to run the avalons when they are that overclocked?

I'm sure I will regret this, but I'm going to answer your question anyway.

927w with a platinum PSU. This is the one area in which BFL is clearly superior. With an identical PSU(Antec 1300w platinum) four BFL Single SCs draw just under 1100w and hash at around 375Gh/s(after mods to their crappy stock cooling). The minirig SC has twin EVGA classified 1500w PSUs and it draws almost exactly 2x this amount.

If you think this is a huge advantage for BFL gear however, then you'd be mistaken. Bitfury has claimed that the first of their finished products have shipped today and this will mark the end of BFL's superiority in the efficiency department, even while the vast majority of their customers victims still await the products they paid for months ago. Operating cost differences between these two products will end up being nearly meaningless IMO. This is why I've chosen to add more hashing power in the form of cheaper and more readily available secondary market Avalons.

Cablez
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1000


I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:16:20 PM
 #750

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.


How did you overclock your singles to 89GH/s per board?  EDIT: divide by 12 not 8 dummy! Embarrassed

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
xstr8guy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1004


Glow Stick Dance!


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:17:07 PM
 #751

I wouldn't be suprised, if BFL used a 3D-model (for a whopping $59) like this one:

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/nvidia-evga-gtx-570-3d-model/640684

and adjusted some details to create their Monarch-sketchup.

Note the same number of points at the center of the fan in this 3D model (4th pic in the link) and the BFL- Monarch sketchup.


my 0.02 btc

Lol, and that proves what?  They aren't claiming to have a functioning prototype at this very moment.
erk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 500



View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:19:07 PM
 #752

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.


How did you overclock your singles to 89GH/s per board?
He didn't, your math is wrong that's all. Minirig 480GH/s, that means 235GH/s from the 4 Singles.
creativex
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:22:22 PM
 #753

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.

How did you overclock your singles to 89GH/s per board?

Hi Cablez. If I figure that one out, I'll let you know. Grin 715/12 = 59.58333. They're not only not overclocked they're often slightly below spec, though they seem to love cold and I AM a lifelong Michigander after all. Looking forward to throwing some frosty Michigan winter air at them.

Edit: erk = too fast.

Cablez
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400
Merit: 1000


I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:23:19 PM
 #754

Yeah I edited above. I need to leave work now I am fried. Cheesy

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
xstr8guy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1004


Glow Stick Dance!


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:26:24 PM
 #755


How did you overclock your singles to 89GH/s per board?
He didn't, your math is wrong that's all. Minirig 480GH/s, that means 235GH/s from the 4 Singles.


... four BFL Single SCs draw just under 1100w and hash at around 375Gh/s...

375/4=93.75GH/s per Single?   Huh
lucasjkr
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 644
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:36:14 PM
 #756


RoI is the fiction of the greedy.


No, it's entirely real.  Did you miss the part where I told you my batch 2 avalon has paid for itself, In bitcoin?  

I spent bitcoins I had because I wanted more bitcoins then I started with, and now, I have them.

Quote
If difficulty is 1,000,000,000 when you get your unit, simply REFUSE to sell at current prices that equal a loss.  If more and more people do this, the pirice WILL rise.

Which doesn't matter if your goal was to increase the number of bitcoins you have. Which I told you, is the reason I bought an ASIC. Otherwise I would have just kept my bitcoins.

Quote
On the other hand, you are saying it's quite alright to fuck over the customer if there is such an artificially high demand and you charge then $1,000,000 for less hash than a mini-rig costing $30k.  SURE you get them in hand NOW, but damn you got ass-raped in the process.

What the fuck are you talking about?  In may of 2011 $1 million dollars could have bought you more then 1.5TH/s. If you'd kept the money the bitcoins you mined would probably be worth $50-100 million dollars.  

The timing matters.  In fact, I think, but I haven't done the math - if you'd spent $1 million dollars on GPUs in June of 2012 instead of spending $30k on a BFL mini-rig, you'd actually have already made a profit by now, given the price increase.  That's the incredible irony of this.   The people who ordered Mini-rigs at that point in time would have been better off buying GPUs.

I agree people shouldn't buy block erupters expecting to get an ROI. I think most people just buy them for fun.

Quote
Quote
Of course it's BFL's fault. They had faulty information because BFL withheld that information. That was no way to know what effect the other orders would have because BFL chose not to share that information with them.  Which is why I decided not to order from them last year, and went with Avalon instead (I have a batch 2 that's already paid for itself in BTC)

Yet again, the greedy persons view of the world.

Again, are you smoking crack?

Why would someone want to just give free money to BFL in exchange for nothing of value? If they want to give to charity there are lot of worthwhile options.

If you're not a little greedy, there's no reason to care about bitcoin at all.  There's no reason to care about money. If they weren't greedy they would never have bought ASICs in the first place. Why would they?

Quote
BFL is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

BFL is damned because their mistakes are in the past.  There is nothing they can do now to rectify the situation, that's what happens.  That's how time works. Mistakes can't always be undone, and the damned stay damned.

Quote
If you listen to the shills on the ASICMiner posts, RoI != profit.  RoI is simply Return ON investment.  EVERY MINER HAS AN ROI, some just have a HIGHER RoI than others.  Using your flawed BTC argument, you'll never attain MORE BTC than you spend unless the network has reached saturation, so you should never again buy another new product.

I just told you. My Batch2 Avolon has already paid for itself, in BTC. And it certainly is true that no one should buy a pre-order at this point in time. Anyway people use "ROI" around here to mean positive ROI. If you make less then you pay it's a negative ROI.

Quote
can't take any more ignorance.

Ignorance of what?

You're just spewing total nonsense.

You claim to be defending BFL, and yet you say they fucked their customers. You admit their customers will never ROI, and that BFL never intended for them too.  You say the customers should have figured it out, and then you say their customers are only complaining because they're "greedy".  Except if they weren't greedy they never would have bought an ASIC in the first place.

That's like saying you shouldn't complain about getting fucked because the only reason it hurt is because you're too uptight for the giant dick to fit comfortably in your asshole.

You're not defending BFL, certainly not in a way that would make sense to the people they fucked.  We seem to agree on the facts, it's just you don't think there's anything wrong with ripping people off if they're "greedy" and stupid.

It's totally bizarre.

How can you compare the returns achievable from $1 million worth of GPUs, versus a $30k ASIC? For starters, if you bought that many gpu's, you'd probably still be plugging them in... For second, you would have drastically altered network difficulty, asicminer world have deployed that many more chips, and with difficulty that much higher, less people wotks have even checked out bitcoin, so you probably wouldn't have seen the spike that we got. I keep saying, hindsight works great, but not for driving ahead.... Nobody but nobody world have thought bitcoin would go from $6 to 130 let alone $240 during the intervening time frame. At that point where it was $6, recall that bitcoin had LOST 80% of its value from its previous high. The prices we see now were not in the cards. And if someone did know what the future entailed, shame on them for spending their bitcoins back in 2012 when they were poised for a 4000% increase.
creativex
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:36:35 PM
 #757

375/4=93.75GH/s per Single?   Huh

I'm the owner of that particular typo. The singles do slightly better per engine than the minrig SC since I've stripped the very poorly designed cases and replaced both the HSF fans(why low profile BFL?) and the case fans with fans that don't suck, but the four average approximately 275.

Oh and I stripped the ridiculous thermal pad on the chips and replaced it with MX-2.

Ytterbium
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
August 27, 2013, 09:37:51 PM
 #758

Not saying that people that went the Avalon route did bad. Indeed, they did great. But both routes were untested, the outcomes unknown in 2012. As for today? What can you order from Avalon? Anything besides raw chips? And aren't those having difficulty reaching their destination (not FUD, trully sounds like that's been the case).

BFL was already four months late when I ordered my B2. They were already a failure.

Not only that, BFL is nowhere near getting to February of 2013 in their order queue, which is when B2 went on sale.

Now obviously people who ordered chips from them got completely screwed.

creativex
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 27, 2013, 09:40:08 PM
 #759

Avalon B3 will have a better ROI when all is said and done than an equivalent order placed with BFL in March of 2013. Despite Avalon's own pooch screwing.

Ytterbium
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
August 27, 2013, 09:55:19 PM
 #760

How can you compare the returns achievable from $1 million worth of GPUs, versus a $30k ASIC? For starters, if you bought that many gpu's, you'd probably still be plugging them in...

At an amortized cost of $200, that's 5,000 GPUs or 1,250 PCs with 4 each.

Also, I don't know if you know this or not, but if you have a million dollars, you can hire people to assemble stuff for you.

Anway, it's not a realistic example.  If you had a million dollars to spend on bitcoin mining can (and still can) produce your own ASIC.

Quote
For second, you would have drastically altered network difficulty, asicminer world have deployed that many more chips, and with difficulty that much higher, less people wotks have even checked out bitcoin, so you probably wouldn't have seen the spike that we got. I keep saying, hindsight works great, but not for driving ahead.... Nobody but nobody world have thought bitcoin would go from $6 to 130 let alone $240 during the intervening time frame. At that point where it was $6, recall that bitcoin had LOST 80% of its value from its previous high. The prices we see now were not in the cards. And if someone did know what the future entailed, shame on them for spending their bitcoins back in 2012 when they were poised for a 4000% increase.

WTF are you talking about?  The network was already 12TH/s in june of 2012.  And it was 14Th/s in July, and 17 in August. In total people were already spending well over a million dollars a month on GPUs (And FPGAs were even more expensive per GH, just more energy efficient)

If you spent a million on GPUs, it would have been a drop in the bucket.

I certainly wouldn't have recommended anyone do it at the time.

My point is only this: BFL is such a shitty deal, that BFL delayed for such a long time, you would have been better off buying GPUs instead.

I'm not saying people should have bought GPUs instead.  I am just saying that that's how bad of a deal BFL was at the time. Their ASICs are worse then GPUs, because they were delayed for such a long time.

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 [38] 39 40 41 42 43 44 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!